Psycho-Babble Social Thread 23573

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ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37

In reply to Introvert vs. Extrovert, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 15:40:00

-- I've never looked up the definition:

>> INTROVERT: a person characterized by concern primarily with his own thoughts and feelings AND/OR to direct (the mind, one's inerests, etc.) inward or to things within the self


-- Now I (underlined) would say that introverts are far more likely to think of others' feelings because they're so in touch with their own. But then I'm an introvert. Now all the extroverts are going to pelt me with rocks...


> For myself, my psychologist considers me an introvert and then my spouse considers me an extorvert. Me, I say I'm a perfect balance between the two. And I do think I'm probably more correct than either of them, that no person in one or the other, but a mixture of the two traits. (But then note all the I's I use!)

-- isn't it fascinating how different people see us differently. Most of my friends thought I was an extrovert until this last year. I imagine, you're right, Willow - I imagine many people are a mixture. But I do know some extroverts who Cannot spend time alone. It's almost a fear.


> Now for the sensitivity, if anyone cares for my opinion.

-- Well, MY HEAVENS, of course we do!!!! ;)

> My psych has tried to explain how this affects me. I'll use the expample of playing cards. On a good day I would be able to recall what cards have been played. On a bad day I would have a hard time keeping track of who's turn it is and believe that everyone is cheating, because my preception is so off. His reasoning for this is that my brain isn't able to filter out external things; such as temperature fluctuations, smells, noises, movements, etc.

-- These are great examples, great explanation...


> For myself it doesn't matter what causes the stimulus, everything is overwhelming. Windy days are torture for me, because of the constant noise. A sauna which should be relaxing is agh! But for some reason effexor has helped with this. It hasn't been a cure, but I'm able to focus on one thing more easily. I still get bad days, but it's not a constant thing with the medication.

-- I always noticed an increase in sensitivity to things as I grew manic. This would turn into a paranoia, like you mention, and then eventually hallucinations, blah, blah, blah. Funny that it's Depakote that has helped me.

> Oh, by the way, the movie "The Bandits" or just "Bandit," it's a fairly new release has a good protrayal of the introvert by Billy Bob Thorton (I think that's the guys name, he played in Swingblade I think again????.) I think the red haired actress is a good example of an extrovert. In case I'm wrong on either or both accounts the movie is excellent. I personally don't care for Bruce Willis, but in case you do like him he also stars in the movie.

-- You got it right. It's Cate Blanchett, I believe, who played the redhead.


> ps the character played by billy bob is similar to me, except for the fact that i don't have the hypochondriac features. so if you do find yourself laughing at him, do it quietly because remember i have very good hearing, and am over sensitive

-- now i will be looking for that when i see it...

> pps my daughter asked me if anyone reads the stuff i write on here. i said who knows? but i'll ask

-- you tell her YES, YES, YES!!! And Happy Mother's Day!

 

she knows i read it all, eh? (nm) » Willow

Posted by susan C on May 12, 2002, at 20:07:15

In reply to Introvert vs. Extrovert, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 15:40:00

 

Re: ah, that's why ... » Krazy Kat

Posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23

In reply to ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37

no one is on the board! It's Mother's Day? Hmph, may explain how come my children are playing so well on their own. Their little gift for their somewhat frazzled mother.

> introverts are far more likely to think of

Kat a Wise Owl you'll always be to me! The whole thing is I think we think too much. We think about other's feelings, we think about the enviornment, we think about the future, we think about the past, we think about our relationships, we think about our worth, yaada yaada yada. (Where did I pick up that phrase from? Yaada? From the board? From a particular poster? Oh well I like it.)

>some extroverts who Cannot spend time alone. It's almost a fear.

Now everyone will know I've spent too much time at my psych's office. He's explained to me that an extrovert sees themselves through the reflection of other's perceptions of them. So an extrovert not wanting be left without company reflects what you are saying.
>
>
> > Now for the sensitivity, if anyone cares for my opinion. -- Well, MY HEAVENS, of course we do!!!! ;)
Kat, this was at the point my daughter was getting annoyed with me for plopping away on the pc. Even if my posts were ignored, I would still post away just to hear (or see) myself yap. I am a very verbal introvert.
>
> -- I always noticed an increase in sensitivity to things as I grew manic. This would turn into a paranoia, like you mention, and then eventually hallucinations, blah, blah, blah.

Last week I had, what I would call, a visual hallucination when I was really tired. I went and tried to do a search on visual hallucinations and ended up at illusions, which my visual thing was more of. So here's my latest theory, well it isn't really a recent thinking since I've believed this for a long time but anyway, poor sleep or being sleep deprived really sends the old brain on a "bad trip." I've wondered for a long time if sleep was able to induced if these problems could be avoided.

Infrequently, when I'm really tired I've been dreaming but still awake. What I mean is I've still been standing or whatever, and start dreaming, someone would usually be prodding me verbally out of it. I guess they are easiest described as "mini-dreams." What's my point? Gees, I don't know, perhaps if we could get regular sleep these symptoms wouldn't be as bad.

Waking Willow

 

Introvert/extrovert- energy

Posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35

In reply to ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37

Hi all!

I like the following description, which certainly fits me and the people I know. Introverts may get on well with people, and like them (or not, of course!) but being with people uses up their energy reserves. They need time on their own to 'refuel'. Extroverts are the opposite- their energy is topped up by contact with others, and they wilt on their own.

I partly like this as it can explain why you may get on with people, at least sometimes, but still be an introvert and be exhausted by extrovert friends!

(Shouldnt be doing this at work but cant face more of the post-holiday heap on my desk....)

Fi

 

Re: ah, that's why ... » Willow

Posted by wendy b. on May 13, 2002, at 11:31:49

In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Krazy Kat, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23

Willow et al,

Now that you mention it, I have these waking-dream moments, too. It's like I'll imagine a sequel to an event or situation that's happening, and I'm tired, and it's almost nodding off, but you're still there, standing or talking or whatever. So it's a there-but-not-there feeling, and you want to go off into that hallucination, but the current situation demands that you stay in the moment....

Sorry, I just checked the boards for the first time since Thursday (was at a wedding). So, don't mean to butt in to the conversation already begun...

I think "yadda yadda yadda" is a Seinfeld quip. He at least brought it into common parlance, I'm almost positive. It went along with the "this show is about nothing" theme - yadda yadda yadda is just filler talk, like "er" or "umm," doesn't really convey a message except "I could go on, but it's more of the same..."
Blah blah blah. It's all about nothing.

We always liked "blah-blah, woof-woof." We said this LONG before Seinfeld came along...

Anyway, the intrvert-extrovert thing: I'm not sure, but I think I don't like the terminology we've been doled out here by the psychologists or the social-psychologists, or whomever the people are who make their livings off "testing" people like us, or inventing those tests and then doling them out like there is some "truth" to their categories... I think the dichotomy between internalness and externalness is a man-made (human-made) split. Maybe, if we assume those properties exist within the human psyche, we're all both, and we just alternate between them, some more one way, some more the other? If I do assume the split, I think no one could ever be JUST one of those categories. It's too inexorable (Willow, I anticipate a dictionary check so here goes... 1) that which cannot be moved or influenced by persuasion or entreaty; unrelenting, & 2) that which cannot be altered, checked).

So if the Meyers-Briggs test says I'm an ENFP (I think that was it? don't remember the category-splits, so I don't know what any of it means except the "E") - does this mean I am never depressed, turned inward, need time alone, quiet, etc.? Not at all. The test-makers give themselves an out and deliver some disclaimer that no one is any of these all the time, but it's just a way of thinking about one's own personality, in order to make decisions about careers (mostly). I think they said I would make a good social worker or French teacher... Whatever... (ah ha! another filler word!!)

Just some thoughts, does anyone ever read my posts? Willow, we care very deeply what you are saying and talking about! I think you are one of the wisest, most funny, and most caring persons on the board...

Wishing you a lovely, rainy Monday...


Wendy

 

thanks for all the input! (nm)

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 13, 2002, at 13:04:49

In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Willow, posted by wendy b. on May 13, 2002, at 11:31:49

 

Hurray! Fantastic description..thanks (nm) » Fi

Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 13:46:27

In reply to Introvert/extrovert- energy, posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35

 

Re: Highly Sensitive People » Ritch

Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:20:30

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » IsoM, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:51:40

Hi Mitch,
I feel the same. A group makes me shy and self-conscious, but in a one-to-one conversation I feel perfectly fine. I guess I'm a HSP, and I am an INTP (I am sure of I and T, but I can't remember what N and P stand for, so I'm not so sure of those...) on the Meyer-Briggs test. Like IsoM, I need a lot of time alone, else, I feel I lose track of me. It's like I need to check in and make sure I'm still there, in one piece.

- sid

 

yaddah, yaddah, yaddah = Seinfeld (nm) » Willow

Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:26:44

In reply to Re: ah, that's why ... » Krazy Kat, posted by Willow on May 12, 2002, at 20:14:23

 

Energy: I totally agree ! (nm) » Fi

Posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:27:48

In reply to Introvert/extrovert- energy, posted by Fi on May 13, 2002, at 11:27:35

 

Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid

Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Ritch, posted by sid on May 13, 2002, at 20:20:30

> Hi Mitch,
> I feel the same. A group makes me shy and self-conscious, but in a one-to-one conversation I feel perfectly fine. I guess I'm a HSP, and I am an INTP (I am sure of I and T, but I can't remember what N and P stand for, so I'm not so sure of those...) on the Meyer-Briggs test. Like IsoM, I need a lot of time alone, else, I feel I lose track of me. It's like I need to check in and make sure I'm still there, in one piece.
>
> - sid

Hi,

I was thinking about all of this today while I was at work and came to the conclusion that intro-extro-vert is just a language label with a bunch of memory baggage (from the psychobabble of the '70's) that corrupts the whole reality of the concept. Groups *do* make me shy, but when I have had to do a public speech, I start out shaking to the foundations, but...when I get to going,,when I get to flowing,,,I really get into it and *like* it! You are a *teacher*, right? I have always been told by people (teachers included), that I would make a killer teacher or lawyer, but it just scares the bejezus out of me. The only award I got at high school (besides math) was for creative writing and public speaking. Wonderful. I feel like I have been given all of these neato gifts and I can't use them because I panic. My pdoc wants me to take an acting class. God, that really scares me! How do you handle the anxiety of teaching a new class every semester?

Oh, I think P and N are terms for transistors- PNP and NPN. :) Eeek, the smiley-face thing is a little eerie nowadays. Shiny black FBI shoes at the artschools...


Mitch

 

Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch

Posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10

For any ionterested in the Myer-Briggs type, this site has it:
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html
If you click on each red 'here' link below the description, it'll explain far more in better detail.

I clearly fall into what they call a "ENFP - Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving
(Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Feeling)" or an Inspirer. ...okay, all those who've felt inspired by me raise your hands? :-)

Actually, it is very close to describing my personality accurately. especially the part that says
"Unlike other Extraverted types, ENFPs need time alone to center themselves, and make sure they are moving in a direction which is in sync with their values."

 

Re: Highly Sensitive People » Ritch

Posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:08:17

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10

Hi Mitch,
actually, speaking in front of a gorup is not the same as speaking among a group. Then there is much more interaction and it's a lot more personal. When you give a speech or teach, you have a specific topic and people try to get to know that topic, not you. I can talk about personal things and be entertaining with one or two people, but in a group, I kind of disappear. When I teach, it's a role I'm playing. I'm prepared - I talk about the day's topic, answer questions, give homeworks, there's nothing personal in it. Teaching, giving a speech, as well as acting, are rather impersonal, anonymous things to do. It's not you out there, it's the professional in you, the actor in you. Anyway, there's a huge difference for me. At parties I usually sit in one place, talk to a few people, no more than that. I'm rather ill at ease in such settings.

Like IsoM however, I seem to get life stories of people (and their problems) out in no time at all - even when I really don't want to know about it. I remember one Xmas party at a boss' house, My God ! A friend of hers told me her life story in 5 minutes, with all the gory details, the unhappiness, etc... I was so angry to even have beem to that party. I found this person soooo clinging and unpleasant, I could not believe she had chosen me to dump this all on. Anyway, since then, I have learned to change seat or leave when that happens. I had my own problems (being depressive and contemplating suicide at the time), and I could not believe the unpleasant evening I had spent there. Still, I sat there rather than move around and talk to more people, because I was shy I guess.

Oh well. No wonder I don't enjoy parties.

- sid

 

Re: Myer-Briggs Types » IsoM

Posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:11:47

In reply to Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55

INTP
Excerpt from
http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html

I am definitely INTP (Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Perceiving - Introverted Thinking with Extraverted Intuition):

Logical, original, creative thinkers. Can become very excited about theories and ideas. Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings. Highly value knowledge, competence and logic. Quiet and reserved, hard to get to know well. Individualistic, having no interest in leading or following others.

 

just words » Ritch

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:04:19

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » sid, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 23:11:10

Mitch:

I agree, they're just terms. But I've found that so many people I have met, especially in business, don't understand the concept of "time alone" or being quiet, and also that many people THINK they're introverts, when that really means they spend an hour alone before bed each day. :)

People can take a quiet attitude as an attack, when it's just a different personality type. Odd to me.

I guess I feel distinctly in the minority, which is fine, but it causes communication problems, and can mean that certain people aren't meant for "outgoing" jobs, or outgoing lifestyles.

I have a best friend from High School who still cannot understand why I spend so much time alone now. She used to see me when I was manic a lot, and putting on a "false bravado" of sorts. I don't think she'll ever get it.

Also, I have a real problem with people being "invasive". I am very private, and I find it fascinating when strangers act as if I am being "rude" when I don't want to "spill my guts". This was really a problem in the office. I was considered an ice queen until people got to know. And even then...

Just thinking aloud...

 

My hand is rasied! :) (nm) » IsoM

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:05:27

In reply to Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55

 

Re: Myer-Briggs Types » sid

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:07:13

In reply to Re: Myer-Briggs Types » IsoM, posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:11:47

That's me, too, sid, though this:

Exceptionally capable and driven to turn theories into clear understandings

is pretty far from the truth. I am a Lazy SOB! :)

- kk

 

Re: Myer-Briggs Types:Any other INFP's out there?

Posted by Roo on May 14, 2002, at 10:54:00

In reply to Re: Myer-Briggs Types » sid, posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 10:07:13

I hear we're only in 1% of the population, and I
hardly ever meet other ones....

 

Re: Myer-Briggs Types » IsoM

Posted by Ritch on May 14, 2002, at 11:11:57

In reply to Myer-Briggs Types » Ritch, posted by IsoM on May 14, 2002, at 2:21:55

> For any ionterested in the Myer-Briggs type, this site has it:
> http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html
> If you click on each red 'here' link below the description, it'll explain far more in better detail.
>
> I clearly fall into what they call a "ENFP - Extraverted iNtuitive Feeling Perceiving
> (Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Feeling)" or an Inspirer. ...okay, all those who've felt inspired by me raise your hands? :-)
>
> Actually, it is very close to describing my personality accurately. especially the part that says
> "Unlike other Extraverted types, ENFPs need time alone to center themselves, and make sure they are moving in a direction which is in sync with their values."

Hey, that was an interesting little link there! Well, I had some trouble making "decision" as to which "type" I was, but it seems that the best fit would be ENTP. I suppose I am primarily an information "absorber" and an idea "generator". The part really seems to confirm this is the statement about .."when ENTP's are under stress they lost their ability to generate possibilities and become obsessed with minor details." I do like to improvise stuff. Yep, that's me I think: Creative, clever, curious, and theoretical.

Now, if I can just stay out of depression for several months in a row...

Mitch

 

Re: ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Krazy Kat

Posted by SandraDee on May 14, 2002, at 11:15:58

In reply to ah, that's why introverts get a bad rap... » Willow, posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 15:50:37

I guess I'm a shy extrovert... Because I would NEVER go to a movie alone... don't even like to take a walk alone... would rather be around people (not necessarily a group...) I guess that's why it's hard to be an at home mom for me. I have my kids here, but it's hard to really be social with a 10 month old and an almost 3 yr old.

 

Re: Highly Sensitive People » Krazy Kat

Posted by mair on May 14, 2002, at 13:04:53

In reply to Highly Sensitive People, posted by Krazy Kat on May 11, 2002, at 15:02:55

KK

Until your post I never had heard about this book and then this morning, my therapist, without me mentioning it, suggested I might want to give it a look. She's looked over it somewhat quickly and had thought, when she did, that some things clearly applied to me and others maybe not. Wouldn't it be nicer if we fit into nice neat boxes that explained and defined everything?

Mair (still trying to finish Dinah's last suggestion "In Session," before I start this.)

 

that's funny... » mair

Posted by Krazy Kat on May 14, 2002, at 14:15:33

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Krazy Kat, posted by mair on May 14, 2002, at 13:04:53

maybe it should be a future book on the book page here...

 

Re: Highly Sensitive People- Krazy Kat Mair

Posted by Dinah1 on May 14, 2002, at 23:48:52

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People » Krazy Kat, posted by mair on May 14, 2002, at 13:04:53

I've had this book for years and have read it a few times for its tips on reducing sensory overload. If I remember correctly, it's main focus is on the highly sensitive person as a person who is finely tuned, aware of sensory stimulus. She talks about the different ways a person can be "sensitive". What I like best about the book (apart from the tips) is the matter-of-fact approach she takes to it. She doesn't seem to feel that it necessarily leads to real life problems, and I don't believe she thinks that it is even necessary to be introverted. She just gives tips on how to best handle it.

Parts of the book really apply to me, parts don't. So I take what is useful and leave the rest.

As far as introversion/extroversion goes, I really believe in the concept. I am an INTP or an INFP, but everything was pretty evenly split except introversion. I was extremely introverted according to both the MMPI and the Meyers Briggs. But I'm not particularly shy. I just find being around people, even in a positive way, exhausting and overstimulating. And I need to turn inward to regroup. I am very happy alone.

And Mair, it's nice to see your name on the boards again. I always enjoy reading your wise posts.

 

Your M-B Type » sid

Posted by IsoM on May 15, 2002, at 2:54:07

In reply to Re: Myer-Briggs Types » IsoM, posted by sid on May 14, 2002, at 9:11:47

Yes! When I checked your type you had mentioned earlier, I read its profile & thought, yes, that definitely sounds like you (as much as I can know you in cyber-space) - but it really does!

 

i wonder, too, if introverts...

Posted by krazy kat on May 15, 2002, at 9:40:52

In reply to Re: Highly Sensitive People- Krazy Kat Mair, posted by Dinah1 on May 14, 2002, at 23:48:52

need more time to regroup away from people? As Fi stated, they get their energy from being alone, and Extroverts from others. That makes sense to me. I think that's what Really confuses my old friends, just how much time I can spend alone. I mean, I don't leave house unless I Have to now, and have about one to three social experiences a month, and those are usually one-on-one.

I used to feel Guilty about this, or like a less successful person because of it. But that's just one of those societal issues - "The people with the most friends when they die win." Never mind that their "friends" didn't know them at all.

I also noticed the emphasis on "stimuli" in that book. That really hits home. When the TV is too loud, when I'm in Walmart, when two people are talking to me at once - I go Krazy.

- kk


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