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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
I posted recently about losing my job. I've tried as hard as I can to not let it bring me down, but my self-esteem has really gone into the toilet. I feel useless, and have no feeling of self worth.
I've always been the one at work who is there 14-16 hours a day, works another 8-10 over the weekend. I put everything I have into doing a job correctly. I guess I'm your classic workaholic. Losing my job has left me feeling so empty.
My question is, did I allow my job to define who I am? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this put into perspective before I spiral any further down.
Thanks,
Greg
Posted by mist on July 16, 2001, at 13:36:24
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
Greg,
Is the worst part that you’re not going to a job everyday? Or is it that you were let go and you see that as a negative judgment about your worth and abilities that you blame yourself for?
Personally, I hate working. Most workplaces have an unhealthy effect on me because there’s too much emphasis on conformity to mainstream values. I dislike the socializing required in offices because I rarely have anything in common with the people I work with.
I define myself according to other aspects of my life. Work is the place I feel the least myself.
Maybe you did define yourself by your job. It’s great that you could get satisfaction from a job though. I wish I could. But maybe you’re going through a kind of withdrawal from it. It might take some time to adjust to the loss.
And no matter what, needing to find a job when you don't have one is not an easy situation for anyone to be in, "workaholic" or not.
-mist
> I posted recently about losing my job. I've tried as hard as I can to not let it bring me down, but my self-esteem has really gone into the toilet. I feel useless, and have no feeling of self worth.
>
> I've always been the one at work who is there 14-16 hours a day, works another 8-10 over the weekend. I put everything I have into doing a job correctly. I guess I'm your classic workaholic. Losing my job has left me feeling so empty.
>
> My question is, did I allow my job to define who I am? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this put into perspective before I spiral any further down.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
Posted by Roo on July 16, 2001, at 13:53:15
In reply to Re: Did my job define me? » Greg, posted by mist on July 16, 2001, at 13:36:24
Greg,
I have trouble with this from time to time. I have
to keep repeating to myself that I'm not my job,
I'm not my job, I'm not my job. I have to keep
reminding myself that I'm a SOUL. You're a soul,
Greg, a spirit. I'm not a jesus freak or even a
regular church go'er, but what does god care about
our jobs? I think the most important thing is being
kind and compassionate. And you are certainly that.
(Plus you will find another job that will be better
and more satisfying...just be careful to
take care of yourself and get some pleasure outside
of work)....Hang in there, this sort of stuff is
tough and being out of work is very stressful...like
I always say (and have trouble practicing) be kind
to yourself.
Posted by kid_A on July 16, 2001, at 14:07:50
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
Greg,
Loss of anything can be tough, depending on how you feel about it, depending on how much of your time it took up, and it sounds like work took up a good amount of your time.It is true that we are not our jobs; we can however let our jobs define us... When we aren't doing anything at all and we have no imediate goals this makes us depressed because we can't see ourselves as societaly meaningful individuals. The job or the hobby or whatever occupies our time provides us with some form of goal that we can actualize and thus give ourselves some form of false meaning...
Before organised society all of our time was spent hunting or gathering food... We didn't need a job or hobbies or the like because all of our time was spent surviving...
Leaving metaphysics out of it, remember that you are -not- your job, nor even your favourite pasttimes... We're all just a bundle of emotions and drives and perhaps the lack therof... Just try to keep your head above water and listen to your own emotions, not what society dictates that your emotions, drives or ambitions should be.
Posted by tina on July 16, 2001, at 14:52:18
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
Your job didn't define you. YOu defined yourself in terms of your job. You worked hard, too hard, and now you don't know what to do with yourself. Give it time. It's still pretty fresh. Try to think of who you ARE and not who you were when you had the job. Dad, husband, friend. Good, caring, giving, strong, supportive, smart, good-looking........Need I say more?
> I posted recently about losing my job. I've tried as hard as I can to not let it bring me down, but my self-esteem has really gone into the toilet. I feel useless, and have no feeling of self worth.
>
> I've always been the one at work who is there 14-16 hours a day, works another 8-10 over the weekend. I put everything I have into doing a job correctly. I guess I'm your classic workaholic. Losing my job has left me feeling so empty.
>
> My question is, did I allow my job to define who I am? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this put into perspective before I spiral any further down.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
Posted by kazoo on July 16, 2001, at 16:46:03
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
> I posted recently about losing my job. I've tried as hard as I can to not let it bring me down, but my self-esteem has really gone into the toilet. I feel useless, and have no feeling of self worth.
>
> I've always been the one at work who is there 14-16 hours a day, works another 8-10 over the weekend. I put everything I have into doing a job correctly. I guess I'm your classic workaholic. Losing my job has left me feeling so empty.
>
> My question is, did I allow my job to define who I am? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this put into perspective before I spiral any further down.
>
> Thanks,
> GregGreg:
What you did was a classic case of "Putting the job before yourself," and you failed, like I did on a number of occasions. You tried to re-define the job within the parameters of your own talents, and, unfortunately, this ends up as a disaster.
In today's working world, seemingly in all professions, what you have to do is to put yourself before the job.
Only do what you're told.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.
You'll become an under achiever and you'll succeed.
This is the way it is and it sucks.
You did your job too well and instead of rewarding you, you were punished.
Unless you work for a "think tank" (such as the RAND CORPORATION where free thinking is encouraged), or are self-employed, you'll flop every time.
It's a bad time for ingenuity, creativity and dynamic thinking.
Resist becoming an automaton.
You have a lot to offer, and don't let these curmudgeons make you feel any less.
I know it's difficult to rid yourself of the resentment, as I still harbor much myself, but you have to look forward.
Don't look back in anger.
They're the losers.
You've got no where to go but UP!
kazoo
Posted by Shar on July 16, 2001, at 22:33:55
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
The only way your job defined you was the requirement that certain tasks be completed. How you did them, what you created--systems, processes, what you brought to the job was all your doing.
If a job defined one, then anyone in that job would be identical to the others who had had that job.
Now, it is possible that you define yourself in terms of your job, as we all may do to some degree or another. I am also a type A person about work, don't hesitate to put in long days and weekends when called for, etc. But, since I've been out of work, the essential me hasn't changed drastically. I don't think the essential you will either.
I have a part time job now and I noticed that the things I must do to keep the job define how I behave--e.g., I don't call the customers names to their faces. But, who I am hasn't changed. Who you are hasn't changed.
You must find a way to get out of this hole you are in--even a few trips to the therapist might be a good idea. If you are already spiraling down, there is no time to lose in getting a different perspective on this. You have to shore up your coping skills and stand guard over your self-esteem, and not take this personally.
It's true. I'm not shittin ya, Greg.
xoxo
YIC
Shar
> I posted recently about losing my job. I've tried as hard as I can to not let it bring me down, but my self-esteem has really gone into the toilet. I feel useless, and have no feeling of self worth.
>
> I've always been the one at work who is there 14-16 hours a day, works another 8-10 over the weekend. I put everything I have into doing a job correctly. I guess I'm your classic workaholic. Losing my job has left me feeling so empty.
>
> My question is, did I allow my job to define who I am? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm trying to get this put into perspective before I spiral any further down.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
Posted by shelliR on July 17, 2001, at 16:10:25
In reply to Re: Did my job define me?, posted by Shar on July 16, 2001, at 22:33:55
Hi Greg,
I am also a workaholic, but then again, most people who start their own businesses are. I think how we spend our time does help define us to ourselves. Work is not always just a job. It can be accomplishment, creativity, relationships, challenges, crises, commitment, etc. If you have been working for most of your time, it is absolutely natural for you to feel a great sense of loss right now.
I hope that you can separate ego (losing your job) from loss. If I lost my business right now, I would totally lose my bearings because it is at the core of my life (family, for me did not work out to be that core, but for some people it is). I know I am the type that puts total energy into everything that I do (and so I don't do a lot of different things). So you just have all this energy bouncing around right now. The next step for me would be to figure out where I want to next put my energy. You've talked in one thread about working on your relationship with your wife. This may (or may not) be the time to do that. This could be a time where you set out to learn something that you didn't have the time to delve into before. Since you have the kind of put everything in it energy, you might want to take a workshop in something. They're always intense, and you learn a lot in a very short time. Or taking the time to plan what would be your perfect next job, and somehow work toward creating it.
If you got a lot of satisfaction in life from your job, I wouldn't overanalyze it into a bad thing. You do have the time to discover if you want to approach your time in the same way, or change (i.e., commit yourself to working less hours in your next position). You will regain your sense of self, and new opportunities will present themselves in the future.
And as Shar said, get yourself into therapy so you get the opportunity to talk and talk and talk about this.
all the best,
Shelli
Posted by mair on July 17, 2001, at 21:51:17
In reply to Did my job define me?, posted by Greg on July 16, 2001, at 12:45:57
> This board seems to turn over much too quickly for me to keep up. Certain jobs are so consuming that it becomes easy to say that it defines you. These are the jobs that simply require aot of mental energy and time. It sounds like you had a job like that and that you were very good at it. I had/have a job like that and I'm trying to pull back, of necessity. I work best when i work intensely, but then there's a huge let down when things ease up. The realization that I couldn't keep working this way, and therefore couldn't be at the top of my job, hurt my self esteem tremendously. I think it was similar to losing a job, except (and this is a huge difference) i wasn't forced to go find another. I feel very badly about your situation, but before you let yourself get lower, remind yourself of what you offered this employer and what you are able to offer the next one. Take the confidence that allowed you to do your job well, and channel that into your next interview. This sucks big time but you took one job and obviously approached it in your own unique way. You made it not the other way around and the same will be true of anything else you face now. (I feel like I'm truly babbling - no pun intended - because I don't know much about the circumstances of your firing.) Human nature being what it is, this "body blow" will probably make you question yourself even if it shouldn't. Please get the support and help you need. Good Luck
Mair
Posted by Willow on July 17, 2001, at 22:03:36
In reply to Re: Did my job define me?, posted by mair on July 17, 2001, at 21:51:17
Subject: Rocks: A meaning for life
A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him. When the class
began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty glass jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks - rocks
about 2" in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that it was.
So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar
lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the open area between the rocks. He then asked the
students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.
The students laughed. The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course,
the sand filled up everything else.
"Now," said the professor, "I want you to recognize that this is your life. The rocks are the
important things - your family, your partner, your health, your children - things that if everything
else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things
that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else. The small stuff."
"If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes
for your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room
for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your
happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups.
Take your partner out dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give a
dinner party and fix the disposal.
"Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just
sand."
Posted by kazoo on July 18, 2001, at 0:14:05
In reply to Rocks ..., posted by Willow on July 17, 2001, at 22:03:36
This
space
was
intentionally
left
blank,
so
why
are
you
reading
this?
kazoo
Posted by shelliR on July 18, 2001, at 0:21:57
In reply to Rocks ..., posted by Willow on July 17, 2001, at 22:03:36
> ?Subject: Rocks: A meaning for life
>
> A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him. When the class
> began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty glass jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks - rocks
> about 2" in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that it was.
> So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar
> lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled into the open area between the rocks. He then asked the
> students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.
> The students laughed. The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course,
> the sand filled up everything else.
> "Now," said the professor, "I want you to recognize that this is your life. The rocks are the
> important things - your family, your partner, your health, your children - things that if everything
> else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things
> that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else. The small stuff."
> "If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes
> for your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room
> for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your
> happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups.
> Take your partner out dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give a
> dinner party and fix the disposal.
> "Take care of the rocks first - the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just
> sand."I think that what was quoted was very beautiful, but only mostly true. There is the saying that when someone is about to die, they never say I wish I would have worked more, (i.e.,rather than spent time with family). But work is not small stuff for me--not a pebble. I agree that it is only part of life. But remember what "work" can create in the largest sense. It can create incredible novels, wonderful paintings, medical advancements, civil liberties. In the smaller sense, my house gets heated, there is food for me to buy and people to buy it from, my mail gets delivered (and yes, I notice when my mailman has a day off), my therapist comes to her job and helps me with my life. Etc.
Maybe I am getting a bit carried away here, but I put so much of me into my work. So I wanted to say in the best of circumstances, and if one chooses it to be, work can also be a rock
Shelli
p.s. Hi K (Mair). I missed your presence on the board lately.
Posted by Greg on July 18, 2001, at 12:22:46
In reply to Re: Did my job define me?, posted by mair on July 17, 2001, at 21:51:17
You all sure gave me a lot to think about here and I really appreciate it. I do think I am feeling a sense of loss over this as I was with this company a long time and put so much of my energies into it. I think when I find my next position (quickly I hope), I'll try to concentrate more on remembering that it is in fact only a job and that the things that really matter will always be safe and sound as long as I take good care of them.
But for today, I think I'll take a day off and go see the new Jurassic Park flic. I think I deserve some me time...
Oh, and Tina? After all this time you can still make me blush...damn you :)
Thanks again,
Greg
Posted by Willow on July 18, 2001, at 12:38:42
In reply to Re:Rocks and Rolls...Greetz to Willow, my dear(np) » Willow, posted by kazoo on July 18, 2001, at 0:14:05
Because I can't help myself when it comes to you!
Can I have the next slow dance? I'll promise not to step on your toes if you let me lean on you!
Willow
Posted by Greg on July 18, 2001, at 17:07:52
In reply to Re: Did my job define me?--Greg, posted by shelliR on July 17, 2001, at 16:10:25
Hi Shelli,
I have a question, but first I wanted to congratulate you for being able to sustain your own business! In this market place I see start-ups falling by the wayside daily, and being in the Silicon Valley, it's even more visible. You are to be commended and I wish you all the best.
Now the question, being a fellow workaholic, do you find that even while you are taking time for yourself (vacation, a movie, even just a walk in the park), do you find yourself thinking about work? Even to the point of guilt? I'll tell you, since losing my job, all I can think about is going back to work. And it's not the money, I have a little saved and we'll be fine there, I just feel like I should be at a company doing a job.
I've gotta get a life....
Greg
BTW, I am trying to get an appt with my therp, but now that I'm on my wife's HMO I have to go to my GP and get a written referal...grrrrr.
> Hi Greg,
>
> I am also a workaholic, but then again, most people who start their own businesses are. I think how we spend our time does help define us to ourselves. Work is not always just a job. It can be accomplishment, creativity, relationships, challenges, crises, commitment, etc. If you have been working for most of your time, it is absolutely natural for you to feel a great sense of loss right now.
>
> I hope that you can separate ego (losing your job) from loss. If I lost my business right now, I would totally lose my bearings because it is at the core of my life (family, for me did not work out to be that core, but for some people it is). I know I am the type that puts total energy into everything that I do (and so I don't do a lot of different things). So you just have all this energy bouncing around right now. The next step for me would be to figure out where I want to next put my energy. You've talked in one thread about working on your relationship with your wife. This may (or may not) be the time to do that. This could be a time where you set out to learn something that you didn't have the time to delve into before. Since you have the kind of put everything in it energy, you might want to take a workshop in something. They're always intense, and you learn a lot in a very short time. Or taking the time to plan what would be your perfect next job, and somehow work toward creating it.
>
> If you got a lot of satisfaction in life from your job, I wouldn't overanalyze it into a bad thing. You do have the time to discover if you want to approach your time in the same way, or change (i.e., commit yourself to working less hours in your next position). You will regain your sense of self, and new opportunities will present themselves in the future.
>
> And as Shar said, get yourself into therapy so you get the opportunity to talk and talk and talk about this.
>
> all the best,
>
> Shelli
Posted by shelliR on July 18, 2001, at 23:34:25
In reply to Re: A question » shelliR, posted by Greg on July 18, 2001, at 17:07:52
Hi Greg
>
> I have a question, but first I wanted to congratulate you for being able to sustain your own business!I've had this business for about twelve years. It's fairly creative, but I could not support a family with the profits. Right now, my work falls under the category of fine art. If I really needed to earn a full living, I'd have to add jobs that I really don't want to do. Luckily, for various reasons, I do not have to earn everything that I need to live on. So it is more of a personal and artistic success than a financial one.
> Now the question, being a fellow workaholic, do you find that even while you are taking time for yourself (vacation, a movie, even just a walk in the park), do you find yourself thinking about work? Even to the point of guilt? I'll tell you, since losing my job, all I can think about is going back to work. <
Actually, I think I am not the typical workaholic. I am not even a type A personality. When I worked for other people, I did not put a lot of energy into work, mostly because I was usually really bored, or else totally over my head. I was never a really good employee.
But I have always tended to become totally focused on one major thing in my life. For a while it was dance, then tennis. This is the first focus I've had that has turned into a career. So I think it's about always being consumed by one thing, and for the past decade it's been my business. I was never a great dancer, and only a good, but not great tennis player. So for the first time I am excellent at what I am focused on, so that's why it became a business.
Also, I am very disorganized and spacy, so I spend a lot of time redoing things, and drifting off into my thoughts instead of working. (I am a photographer, and that doesn't happen during the shoots, but during other aspects of my job). So some of me being a workaholic has to do with constantly compensating for wasted time or effort.
I took some time off in January, sort of an at home vacation, but I still spent my time designing a website for my business. But it was really fun, I love design, and I felt relaxed and playful. But yes, even though I had taken the time off, I was still officially working. When I actually go away (just once a year), I don't think I should be working, or dwell on work. But I do feel like at the end of ten days or so, I want to go home and get back to work, and be "me" again. So I AM very identified with my work. And I don't feel guilty at all when I am at the movies or out to dinner, etc. But it feels like a major decision to decide to do those things, because I will not be able to work. I also have one other focus; I am really into my perenntial garden. So even in the middle of work I often feel a need to go outside and check on everything, and deadhead or weed, or plan where I will move things around in the early spring.
And I have to say that always working does "save" me, from focusing on the areas of my life that are not fully satisfying--like relationships! So I am working now to convert some of what I do my hand, to come off the computer. If I get that together, I can take more clients, but also I will have more time, and maybe I will decide to use that time for a relationship. That's just a maybe, though.
I don't know about the guilt thing, Greg. That part seems strange to me, considering that you are working for someone else. It seems like you definitely take on too much at work, and I guess you have to think about why. Do you feel the best about yourself at work?
Shelli
Posted by Lorraine on July 21, 2001, at 11:02:41
In reply to Re: A question » Greg, posted by shelliR on July 18, 2001, at 23:34:25
Greg, Shelli, others great thread. I was a work-aholic. No doubt about it. My shrink used to say that when I finished one career goal, I would just find another mountain to climb and set the stakes a bit higher. When all was said and done, (and I had fallen into a depression as a result of staying in an abusive work relationship too long and taken on way too much stress for way too long) it turned out that in my case I never thought that I was good enough and always had to prove that I was by outward accomplishments. Now I cannot work--I can't handle really any stress at all without melting down--so I guess I really fried my receptors good with the amount of stress I took on. What Shelli is doing is trying to please herself it sounds like--which is very different than trying to please others. I had some pretty tough times in therapy coming to grips with the issue of not being good enough. I am a better person for having done so, but I do wish that I could work. There is a sense of community at work that I miss terribly. This is a good issue for you to explore. Good luck with it.
Lorraine
This is the end of the thread.
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