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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 29, 2013, at 16:19:31
One of the first things I learned in therapy is that the disorders that bring us into session lead us to believe that we are unique and special. Unfortunately, or fortunately, this just isn't so.
There are those who are anti social. Those are very intelligent. Those who self harm. Those who suffering from such crippling depression that they are unable to have a shower, or dress themselves. Or those who are so manic that they manage to isolate and insult all those in their lives who are merely trying to save their lives.
None of us are special.we each have our issues. We have many combinations, but really. Who among us has been abused as a child? Emotionally neglected? Witnessed horrible events no child should should ever see, or even participate in? Been traumatized by any number of events that some easily recover from. Other pay a very high price for being traumatized.
We are, collectively, people who are of different circumstances. Who have experienced different events. But I have not found it helpful to think of myself to think of myself as unique. I am not so very special. Those requiring help for mental illness are a business unto themselves. It may be form of protection to think that Nobody understands what I've gone through, or No one understands how unique my needs are.
But it is a lie. A lie, I tell you. It will garner you hours of therapy, years of medication, and drive away people who might otherwise be of help in your life.
But, go ahead. Believe you are different, and special. It's a grand illusion.
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 18:58:22
In reply to Thinking we are special, posted by Partlycloudy on October 29, 2013, at 16:19:31
I feel everyone is unique in their own ways. Not even identical twins who grow up together in same environment are the same. They are separate Entities. So not sure what you are saying? Phillipa
Posted by baseball55 on October 29, 2013, at 19:10:38
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » Partlycloudy, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 18:58:22
I guess this is partly in response to Alex's frustration that she is not entirely understood. I guess none of us is ever entirely understood. But people do try to be empathic, to imagine someone else's situation and try to be helpful.
In 12-step groups, people are encouraged to try and identify and not compare themselves to others. Sometimes, I find it goes too far. People say they identify when, in fact, their experience is completely different. But the object is to try, as far as possible, to find common ground.
That's what allows us to connect with others. That's why we reach out to others. After all, why post your frustrations if you have no desire to get responses? And don't we all, on some level, want those responses to be empathic?
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 29, 2013, at 19:42:53
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by baseball55 on October 29, 2013, at 19:10:38
All I am saying is there is more in common with each than what separates us. Yes, I am frustrated. But to be feeling that my issues are less important than, or not as frustrating, as someone else's, is belittling. I am as equal to anyone else's suffering.
I have not tried to kill myself, but only because I couldn't muster up the energy to do anything about it. Those who attempt - and those who succeed - are more energetic than I.
I do feel slighted by Alex's post, regardless of who it was directed at. That's who I am, and how I ended up by my upbringing. I don't take kindly to feeling bossed or made to feel less than. My self esteem has been a struggle for so long, that I am not letting go of this. Not any more.
I don't have many friends. Obviously.
pc
Posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 21:47:12
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » baseball55, posted by Partlycloudy on October 29, 2013, at 19:42:53
Don't be so hard on yourself you also deserve to be heard we all do. I do hear you. Phillipa
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 12:45:02
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » Partlycloudy, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2013, at 21:47:12
Thanks, I really do appreciate this. I talked with my T this morning. Though I'm at peace with what I've posted, I can see that it might not be understood in the way I intended.
pc
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 15:07:13
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 12:45:02
Hi PC.
How do you define the word "special". I really don't understand your usage of this word.
I think that it would be difficult to argue that each human being is not a unique individual. Most pertinent is the fact that individual brains are biologically different, not to be replicated anywhere else on Earth - whether as a product of genetics or the epigenetics that result from the exposure to different environmental conditions. Having said that, I don't know how special any one of us is since we are all unique. How can anyone be special if they are no more unique than anyone else. I tend to enjoy the thought that there is something intrinisically special about being unique.
- Scott
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 15:27:44
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 15:07:13
> Hi PC.
>
> How do you define the word "special". I really don't understand your usage of this word.Special means we don't need to be treated differently. We are genetically the same just about, to all the other people on this earth. It means that I gain nothing to be thought of as special, or to think of myself as special. I am a human.
And at the same time, we have these egos who demand that we are different. Of course we are!! We've been neglected, we've been mistreated, we've been traumatised! And there are a lot of people who go through these events unscathed. There are those who emerge scarred, unable to cope without help.
It's our egos who demand that we be told we are special.
But we are not special because of that.
>
> I think that it would be difficult to argue that each human being is not a unique individual. Most pertinent is the fact that individual brains are biologically different, not to be replicated anywhere else on Earth - whether as a product of genetics or the epigenetics that result from the exposure to different environmental conditions. Having said that, I don't know how special any one of us is since we are all unique. How can anyone be special if they are no more unique than anyone else. I tend to enjoy the thought that there is something intrinisically special about being unique.
>Are we not genetically almost identical to almost all the other people in this world? Experience shapes us, Scott. But at the core, we are more similar than we are different.
I take great comfort in that.
>
> - ScottPC
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 16:04:07
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 15:07:13
This is our ego talking. We feel better to think of ourselves as unique. Our experiences certainly are, but this shouting of our minds that we are unique...I don't buy it.>I tend to enjoy the thought that there is something intrinisically special about being unique.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 16:04:58
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 15:27:44
Hi PC.
You are in an interesting place.
- Scott
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 17:04:47
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 16:04:58
> Hi PC.
>
> You are in an interesting place.
>
>
> - ScottI think I need to feel part of something. The human race is a start. A support circle of like minded women (IRL) is another. This place used to be a place I felt safe. Now I am ready to bolt. But I think, unless provoked, I will just go quiet.
pc
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 17:55:03
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 17:04:47
> > Hi PC.
> >
> > You are in an interesting place.> I think I need to feel part of something. The human race is a start. A support circle of like minded women (IRL) is another. This place used to be a place I felt safe. Now I am ready to bolt. But I think, unless provoked, I will just go quiet.
You sound very angry. I'm sorry that you feel Psycho-Babble is no longer a safe place to be. You are probably right.
- Scott
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 18:24:10
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by SLS on October 30, 2013, at 17:55:03
Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence.
You know where you can put it, I think.
Good bye!
Posted by baseball55 on October 30, 2013, at 19:59:30
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 18:24:10
Please PC, don't leave in anger. I completely agree with what you are saying. The whole purpose of communication is to connect and feel the same as others, or at least a part of the human community. To reject this is to isolate oneself.
I think for some people, this is okay. Some people just want to be alone. I did for many years. But it wore on me and drove me nuts eventually. Now I try very hard to see myself as connected and similar to others. Maybe not the same as, but similar enough to form bonds.
This is a very big issue in 12-step meetings, which I attend regularly after being addicted to drugs and alcohol. I once relapsed and couldn't stop and went to meetings and confessed my relapses and felt ashamed. I said this at a meeting. I feel so ashamed. Afterward, this guy came up to me and said - you're not unique, so drop the shame. I found this very helpful. Others have worked through the same or similar problems. We all have our failings and weaknesses. But it's important to keep trying to connect and identify with others, to not go off in a huff and say -- nobody understands me. In 12-step groups they call this "terminal uniqueness." Terminal, because it will eventually drive you crazy as you cut yourself off form others and from sources of help.
You have found help in your group and I have found help in 12-step groups. I have also found help here. When I started posting here, I posted to the psychology board because I was obsessed with therapy and my therapist. It was making me crazy and I needed to communicate with others about the experience of therapy.
I found I was not unique. Others experienced the same or similar issues. It's that sameness and desire for connection that keeps babble alive.
So keep communicating with us, PC.
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 20:14:10
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by baseball55 on October 30, 2013, at 19:59:30
That would be nice if I didn't think Scott or Alex would take offense. But I understand the lines of power here.
It is a rather 12 step sounding thinking.
I don't hate anything except someone telling me I am angry or hateful. I have a good handle on my feelings. It's more that I take ownership of my feelings, and try not to be pushed around.
Bullying I am well acquainted with.
We'll see what the big people say.
PC
Posted by Deneb on October 30, 2013, at 20:21:08
In reply to Thinking we are special, posted by Partlycloudy on October 29, 2013, at 16:19:31
I tend to agree with this.
If you listen to another person's life story, really *listen*, you will often realize that they are just as messed up as you are. Everyone is really. Rich idillic life? Perhaps in their minds they are having an existential crisis due to not having a meaningful life or something...we all have problems.
Once you start thinking your are unique and no one knows your pain you will start to think that others will never understand and naturally be unable to relate to others as well. This is a trap that pushes others away and this turns into a cycle.
One thing that really helped me get over my problems was to really accept who I am as a person and to realize that I'm not really different from others.
I then stopped thinking of myself as having "mental problems" and more of just another normal human being with problems. I stopped focusing on what I couldn't do but instead focused on what I could do and what I had. I realized I was pretty lucky compared to the rest of the world. At least I don't have to worry about war in my backyard or about starving to death or something.
> One of the first things I learned in therapy is that the disorders that bring us into session lead us to believe that we are unique and special. Unfortunately, or fortunately, this just isn't so.
>
> There are those who are anti social. Those are very intelligent. Those who self harm. Those who suffering from such crippling depression that they are unable to have a shower, or dress themselves. Or those who are so manic that they manage to isolate and insult all those in their lives who are merely trying to save their lives.
>
> None of us are special.we each have our issues. We have many combinations, but really. Who among us has been abused as a child? Emotionally neglected? Witnessed horrible events no child should should ever see, or even participate in? Been traumatized by any number of events that some easily recover from. Other pay a very high price for being traumatized.
>
> We are, collectively, people who are of different circumstances. Who have experienced different events. But I have not found it helpful to think of myself to think of myself as unique. I am not so very special. Those requiring help for mental illness are a business unto themselves. It may be form of protection to think that Nobody understands what I've gone through, or No one understands how unique my needs are.
>
> But it is a lie. A lie, I tell you. It will garner you hours of therapy, years of medication, and drive away people who might otherwise be of help in your life.
>
> But, go ahead. Believe you are different, and special. It's a grand illusion.
Posted by baseball55 on October 30, 2013, at 20:30:20
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » baseball55, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 20:14:10
I don't think there are "big people" here. At least not on this board. I do see this on the med board. But this board, I feel, is quite egalitarian. Everyone has their say and is heard, including you and I.
Posted by Phillipa on October 30, 2013, at 21:16:51
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 18:24:10
I don't understand when one has said they have come to peace with their therapist today that one needs to seem to be purposely trying to provoke another. I know we are unique but it's a combination of so many factors that to list them is silly. Different ages, different health conditions, different everything including names. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on October 30, 2013, at 23:10:21
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2013, at 20:21:08
This was from Admin
Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 13
Accept disgrace willingly.
Accept misfortune as the human condition.What do you mean by "Accept disgrace willingly"?
Accept being unimportant.
Do not be concerned with loss and gain.
This is called "accepting disgrace willingly."What do you mean by "Accept misfortune as the human condition"?
Misfortune comes from having a body.
Without a body, how could there be misfortune?Surrender yourself humbly; then you can be trusted to care for all things.
Love the world as your own self; then you can truly care for all things.But a different translation goes...
"Welcome disgrace as a pleasant surprise.
Prize calamities as your own body."Why should we "welcome disgrace as a pleasant
surprise"?
Because a lowly state is a boon:
Getting it is a pleasant surprise,
And so is losing it!
That is why we should "welcome disgrace as a pleasant
surprise."Why should we "prize calamities as our own body"?
Because our body is the very source of our calamities.
If we have no body, what calamities can we have?Hence, only he who is willing to give his body for the
sake of the world is fit to be entrusted with the world.
Only he who can do it with love is worthy of being the
steward of the world.
The translations are quite varied.
Posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 1:17:46
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by sigismund on October 30, 2013, at 23:10:21
Amazingly cool.
Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 2:43:55
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » sigismund, posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 1:17:46
Translation from Chinese must be really different to translation from an Indo-European language.
So there is difference, being special, and being important and they are all a bit different.
Posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 11:47:17
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 2:43:55
> Translation from Chinese must be really different to translation from an Indo-European language.
>
> So there is difference, being special, and being important and they are all a bit different.I've been taught that we all have stories we like to tell about ourselves. The challenge is putting these stories up to questioning and seeing if they hold up.
1. Is this story true?
2. Can I absolutely know that it is true?
3. How do I feel when I believe that this story is true?
4. How do I feel if I were to drop the beliefs in those stories and feelings?In doing so for many situations in my life, I have found that the events that I tagged as Special and Unique have not stood up to this line of questioning.
The stories have fallen away.
Obviously, I have not worked on every issue, like Bullying. But I think I understand the process enough to see that what we think makes us unique are really the stories we tell ourselves about them. And that they don't usually stand up to scrutiny.It is a transformative process.
PC
Posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 19:01:09
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special » sigismund, posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 11:47:17
This idea of being special is a really interesting one. I never thought I was special and was never treated as special, but, on some level, wanted to be treated as special.
When I was going through major crises with drug addiction and depression and hospitalizations, this doctor at a drug rehab clinic kept pushing me up in line and, when I was in the hospital once, I kept calling my p-doc to intercede and get me out.
My daughter got angry with me about this and said I thought I deserved special treatment. When I told my p-doc this, he said, well you do deserve to be special. You treated your daughter as special and that's what kids deserve. You never got that as a child.
Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 20:32:30
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 19:01:09
Is it possible to love someone and not feel that they are special?
I can not recall it.
But it is so different from important.
Posted by Angela2 on November 1, 2013, at 1:23:23
In reply to Re: Thinking we are special, posted by Deneb on October 30, 2013, at 20:21:08
> I tend to agree with this.
>
> If you listen to another person's life story, really *listen*, you will often realize that they are just as messed up as you are. Everyone is really. Rich idillic life? Perhaps in their minds they are having an existential crisis due to not having a meaningful life or something...we all have problems.
>
> Once you start thinking your are unique and no one knows your pain you will start to think that others will never understand and naturally be unable to relate to others as well. This is a trap that pushes others away and this turns into a cycle.
>
> One thing that really helped me get over my problems was to really accept who I am as a person and to realize that I'm not really different from others.
>
> I then stopped thinking of myself as having "mental problems" and more of just another normal human being with problems. I stopped focusing on what I couldn't do but instead focused on what I could do and what I had. I realized I was pretty lucky compared to the rest of the world. At least I don't have to worry about war in my backyard or about starving to death or something.
>
>
>
Wanna make it clear that I'm not taking sides.I think that the word special has different meanings. To be honest, I haven't read every single post in this discussion, but special, if taken in the context of being worthy of love or being an imprtant person to someone else, then yes I think of myself as special, or I at least try to. But if special means different from the regular populace in a bad way, well this of course could not be true. Because I rock. I'm special! lol jk. or am I? I'm feeling very philosophical.
ps: I just really like your take on this, Deneb.
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