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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 16:24:47
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:46:40
The one I have now was an instantaneous good fit - the only one out of four I interviewed whom I felt this way about. I had actually gone to another one before, had doubts from the start, and that one ended badly. I'd say pay close attention to your doubts; keep interviewing until you really feel you have found the right person. He (she) is out there somewhere!
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 16:24:47
hi twin. can you say more about your doubts and how it ended badly?
i met with someone for 9 months who i had no doubts about. it had to end because my insurance ran out and stopped paying for him, he was out of network. it was going to cost me 100 per session, 300 per week for 3 sessions. 1200 per month!!
i couldnt justify it to myself so i left. and now im freaking out because ive met with 4 other people, NONE were a good fit. im scared that either i wont find someone else good or that ill need to go back and spend all my freaking money on treatment w. the one who was helpful.
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2012, at 17:18:26
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
That's a lot of money. Group theraphy out of the question? I liked that at one time. Phillipa
Posted by emmanuel98 on May 11, 2012, at 19:11:00
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2012, at 17:18:26
Don't understand traditional lie on the couch analysis, but I disagree with the poster who said therapy is just rent-a-friend. I saw a p-doc in psychodynamic (sit across from one another, engage in a dialogueI therapy for a long while and I can't even begin to express how much it helped me. Unlike friends (and at the time I had no friends because I was completely unable to be vulnerable around another human being), therapy means working on you and you alone. You say I'm feeling bad and a friend says, actually I'm feeling great. A therapist focuses on you and you know very little about them.
I had a severe trauma background which I had never shared with anyone and had put so far behind me that I truly thought of that person as a different person from me. I badly needed to talk about it and get help trying to integrate it. I could not have done this with a friend. I needed a skilled professional, accustomed to dealing with trauma.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 11:44:39
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 13:52:38
Freud was a springboard for a lot of other theories, and psychoanalytic training isn't all about Freud. He did offer a lot of interesting ways to understand how people function... but I don't agree with all of it.
There's a lot to be said for considering how we react to our therapist, where that comes from, and how that carries over into our lives. It can give you a chance to see choices you might not have known that you had.
You just don't get an opportunity to explore your patterns of relating in other relationships.
My 2 cents. ;-)
Posted by Willful on May 12, 2012, at 13:36:54
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by emmanuel98 on May 11, 2012, at 19:11:00
I felt an immediate connection with my analyst that was very secure and reassuring. This wasn't true with prior analysts I had interviewed or the prior therapists I had. This sensation of being secure and able to trust is maybe the one thing that really gave me confidence at a bad time to move forward, and not to look any further. I'd never had that sense before-- and without it, it would have been easy to settle for someone who seemed okay, but with whom I had nothing like this sort of rapport. There's an okay match and there's a really good match-- and the difference is huge, in the potential of the relationship. This is why I think therapy (or analysis) is so often not very useful. My intuition is that you might want to keep looking, or investigate whether you could somehow see the person with whom you did feel right.
More than anything else, the value of analysis (or therapy) lies in the work you can do with someone-- and I"ve just found that I"ve gotten to much deeper and more real things -- and that despite its being very challenging and difficult at times, this relationship has led to the possibility of deep change. I never got anywhere like that no matter how much or how little I talked to other people in the past
I also wouldn't necessarily say that analysis has to be done lying down. That's apparently very beneficial to some people-- my analyst does a lot of it. But then he's also a teaching analyst at an institute here, so he sees people training to become analysts--who I imagine want to explore all the options for the process. I tried the couch for a while and found it intriguing. I can't remember why I stopped, but it seems like a creative way to work.
Also obviously, analysis, even "traditional" analysis, has long moved beyond Freud's specific theories-- so the critique that Freud had a lot of half-baked ideas is quite irrelevant. It's like saying that contemporary physics is wrong because phlogiston didn't exist-- or Newton had a lot of wacky theories about other things-- which he did.
If you have doubts, though, I would keep looking-- because when analysis, or therapy goes wrong, it's really a bad thing. And doubts are telling your something you don't yet understand.
Willful
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
I strongly support what Emmanuel and Willful are saying - that it's the relationship which allows meaningful change to take place. Without a secure relationship which has that "right" feeling, the changes you are so hoping for won't happen.
Although I do see- an analyst three times a week, I sit facing him. Being able to see his face and body language is crucial for me, but might be less important for someone else. Lying down has the advantage of letting yourself speak more honestly, with less fear of negative reactions from the analyst.
While I know this is becoming rarer, I do have good insurance coverage, which helps a great deal. Is there any chance of your obtaining that?
Posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 16:06:22
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
I do have insurance coverage. It only covers part of the fee for the analyst I had who I had to leave. He chArges 200 my insurance pays 100. He won't lower his fee. I've seen four other therapists and havent liked any of them.
I'm frustrated because none of these other people struck me as being as helpful as the one I couldn't afford. So I'm scared that I won't find someone as good who understands me as well. It seems a rare find.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
Maybe your former analyst is worth sticking with, even if you can't see him as often as you would for a "regular" analysis. You can cover all the same ground, although it's easier to do, and goes a bit faster, when you go more often. You wouldn't want to go to someone who seemed like less of a good fit.
The fee you describe is pretty average. Where I live, fees for analysis range from $180 to $240 per hour.
Posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
To be perfectly honest, the analyst charges 300 per session and will not negotiate fees below that. I said 200 in my post because I didn't want to seem silly for being stuck on someone whose fee is so high. My insurance covers 195 of the 300 but if I leave my job which I may it's not likely my insurance will cover that much. So while he has been most helpful so far it often seems that his fee is out of reach and rather unreasonable.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 18:23:21
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
Wow. That is a very high fee, especially for regular psychoanalytic therapy where you would be going once or twice a week. I think almost all other fully- trained analysts would charge something more like $200 per hour.
I think that might be a deal- breaker for me, as it seems out of the ordinary. Maybe your best bet would be to keep on looking. It's a shame, though, since you liked him so much.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 18:25:15
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
Dear god,
Does the guy walk on water???
I'm thankful for my therapist.
I can afford him, AND he's good at his job.
Posted by emmanuel98 on May 12, 2012, at 19:13:38
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 18:25:15
$300 an hour?!!!! I paid that to a consultant once, but he only charged that for consultations, not for regular therapy. My p-doc, who I love and who has helped me immeasurably, gets $115 an hour from the insurance company --$95 from them and $20 from me. It seems ridiculously low, but he has been in practice for years and said he doesn't do this for the money, that he does it because it's his life's work, he love doing therapy and seeing people grow and change, and he is financially pretty well set.
Posted by Willful on May 12, 2012, at 19:44:09
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
$300 does seem awfully high-- but I don't blame you for really wanting to see him-- if he feels right. My analyst once claimed that he charged that. I somehow thought that was what he'd like to charge in his dreams-- rather than what he charged. Maybe he has a few very rich clients-- there are people like that in this city-- but I can't believe he'd want charge that to most people. Some people do of course want or need money-- and it's not just liking money-- although if he does, it's just I guess what he thinks he needs, or should get. And if he has kids, college and grad school are insanely expensive-- and so is rent in some cities, etc. Analysts also don't get job-related health insurance. A combination of needing and being able to charge certain people that fee may leave a few analysts in the position to charge it. I'd chalk it up to necessity. I know my T has twins-- and maybe yours has expenses that just can't be put aside. We really can't know what's driving his fee.
Nonetheless, it's really bad luck if you came upon him when he didn't have flexibility. Still-- even though it's difficult--and may feel too picky-- to go on looking--- it's important to stick with it, rather than make a great compromise, when it's your life on the line. There is someone out there--- I"m sure you'll find him or her.
Posted by ron1953 on May 13, 2012, at 9:53:52
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Willful on May 12, 2012, at 19:44:09
I simply stated my own personal, informed opinion. If you have faith in these things, fine. The shrinks I've dealt with were mostly nuts themselves; a few were very nice people who were more cheerleaders than some sort of instruments of change. I do, however, find the money discussion amusing, as if feeling better actually has a price. But the "my therapist is great, I've been seeing him for 20 years" thing seems ludicrous to me. If you're wealthy, it's a luxury you can afford; if you're not, well......
Hmmm...maybe I see the OP's girlfriend's point.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 13, 2012, at 14:41:52
In reply to I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes, posted by ron1953 on May 13, 2012, at 9:53:52
Did you think someone was arguing with you?
Posted by Deerock on May 13, 2012, at 16:39:53
In reply to I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes, posted by ron1953 on May 13, 2012, at 9:53:52
Ron what do you mean as if feeling better has a price?
That sounds as if youre saying it's priceless.
Which would support paying for an analysis if it's helpful.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
Shouldn't a person do anything they can to be happy, even if there is a financial outlay involved?
Posted by ron1953 on May 13, 2012, at 21:38:58
In reply to Re: I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes » ron1953, posted by Deerock on May 13, 2012, at 16:39:53
Nevermind - hell I'm not sure of what I'm saying, either.
Posted by sigismund on May 16, 2012, at 3:26:24
In reply to Re: I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes » ron1953, posted by Deerock on May 13, 2012, at 16:39:53
>Shouldn't a person do anything they can to be happy,
Now I am going to have to read the whole thread.
Am I am right in thinking that it was only when psychoanalysis came to the US that happiness came into the picture?
Who first mentioned happiness?
Big mistake?
Posted by zazenducke on May 16, 2012, at 8:13:44
In reply to Re: I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes, posted by sigismund on May 16, 2012, at 3:26:24
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
God Bless America!!!!!!!!
Look at what it's done for the pharmaceutical biz
None of that sadder but wiser for us.
When F started analyzing people it took a few months now it can go on for a lifetime if you believe the reports on Babble.
> >Shouldn't a person do anything they can to be happy,
>
> Now I am going to have to read the whole thread.
>
> Am I am right in thinking that it was only when psychoanalysis came to the US that happiness came into the picture?
>
> Who first mentioned happiness?
>
> Big mistake?
Posted by annierose on May 16, 2012, at 19:57:08
In reply to I Didn't Mean To Piss On Anybody's Corn Flakes, posted by ron1953 on May 13, 2012, at 9:53:52
I haven't posted in quite sometime - going through a divorce (which I wanted).
Anyway, I am in analysis and go 3x per week. Some months I cut back to twice a week (depending upon expenses). I did lie on a couch for a few years too - but I found I couldn't hold onto my therapist (if that makes sense). It was her idea for my to try lying down and then it was her suggestion to sit back up. She sensed too that I was going further and further away instead of towards. I needed to see her face, body language ... who knows.
I LOVE IT as much as it is difficult. She is a rock in my life. Some people, like myself, grow up with parents that are completely self-absorbed and spend little to zero time with their children. I needed stability and guidance - and that I found with my therapist. I am not ashamed. I am well educated, a professional and happy that my insurance covers "some" of the cost for me.
I agree that personal fit is important. Very much so.
Posted by sigismund on May 17, 2012, at 0:15:51
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 13:52:38
>Most of Freud's theories have been pretty much debunked.
I was astonished by The Interpretation of Dreams. It was so mechanistic and dead-feeling. Nothing like my experience of therapy at its best. Theories including Freud's have very little to do with good therapy. And yet when I read Freud being stoic he seems magnificent to me.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 25, 2012, at 21:30:16
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by sigismund on May 17, 2012, at 0:15:51
So many changes have occurred since Freud. No-one practices at all the way he did, although he was just remarkable in what he wrote and did in his lifetime. I think the biggest change, both in analysis and in less-frequent psychotherapy, is the lesser reliance on interpretation, and the much greater emphasis on the relationship itself, and especially on the non-verbal aspects of it. It's astonishing to realize that more than 90% of all communication is in fact non- verbal, and that this also applies to therapy, even with it's heavy reliance on putting things into words. I guess it's all the little, un-noticed things that happen in between the words that have the most powerful impact on helping people feel better. Kind of amazing to think about!
Posted by sigismund on May 26, 2012, at 6:08:32
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 25, 2012, at 21:30:16
I saw "A Dangerous Method" today. The script was a bit thin in parts but the nightmare of western culture was nicely portrayed. I must read up on Otto Groz (I think it was).
Posted by Twinleaf on May 26, 2012, at 19:48:56
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by sigismund on May 26, 2012, at 6:08:32
Yes. It wasn't all that great as a movie, but the subject was certainly fascinating.
This is the end of the thread.
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