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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 9:56:12
hi. does anyone have any experience with analysis? meeting w. a therapist multiple times per week, on the couch?
im considering doing analysis and starting working with an analyst. my partner is dead set against it. she states that its an addiction, too time consuming and will disrupt our relationship. i feel the opposite. i think it will help us. we have not been together long but id like to find a way to help her feel more comfortable with it.
Posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 12:01:32
In reply to psychoanalysis, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 9:56:12
OK, lemme get this straight - you want to try analysis, but your relatively new partner is dead set against it, although (IMO) it has absolutely nothing to do with her.
I'm wondering whether you need analysis, assertiveness training, or a new girlfriend.
BTW, I think analysis is a total waste of time and money - but it's YOUR time and money.
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 13:21:37
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 12:01:32
why do you think analysis is a waste of time and money?
Posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 13:52:38
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 13:21:37
> why do you think analysis is a waste of time and money?
---------------------------------------------
Pardon me for answering a question with a question, but whay do you think it's a good idea, and what do you expect to get out of it?Most of Freud's theories have been pretty much debunked. I see ongoing therapy pretty much as rent-a-friend. Peer support with the right people can be excellent therapy, and free.
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:00:25
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 13:52:38
well first of all, ive done it before. so i know what to expect.
i think its a good idea because once per week therapy isnt particularly helpful in terms of resolving neurotic habits. its just supportive.
multiple times per week analysis is helpful.
wrt to what i want to get out of it, i want some more peace, some more flexibility and some more control over my choices when im not feeling the way i want to feel.freuds theories arent what drives a lot of modern analytic theories. there are many other theorists who have appropriate theories which are used to inform analysis.
Posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 14:05:16
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:00:25
It seems that you've already made up your mind about it, and are simply seeking validation. Sorry, not from me. Best of luck, though.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 14:13:25
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 14:05:16
I am doing it currently, and find it profoundly helpful. As you know, you have to find an analyst who is a good match for you.
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:26:10
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 14:05:16
thank you! you too!
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:28:38
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 14:13:25
thats great. thats what im struggling with. i met an analyst and im not sure i really like her too much.
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:46:40
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 14:13:25
hi twin, did you have any concenrs about your analyst or was it a good fit from the start?
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2012, at 15:50:51
In reply to psychoanalysis, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 9:56:12
> hi. does anyone have any experience with analysis? meeting w. a therapist multiple times per week, on the couch?
>
> im considering doing analysis and starting working with an analyst. my partner is dead set against it. she states that its an addiction, too time consuming and will disrupt our relationship. i feel the opposite. i think it will help us. we have not been together long but id like to find a way to help her feel more comfortable with it.
I know this is a personal question, but what are your current needs? What issues or discomforts would you like to address in psychotherapy?I have never tried psychoanalysis or psychodynamic psychotherapies, and really know nothing about them. Yes - Id Ego Superego. Peeling the onion. I know some of the fundamentals, but that doesn't substitute for actually trying these therapies in real life. Deep stuff.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 16:24:47
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 14:46:40
The one I have now was an instantaneous good fit - the only one out of four I interviewed whom I felt this way about. I had actually gone to another one before, had doubts from the start, and that one ended badly. I'd say pay close attention to your doubts; keep interviewing until you really feel you have found the right person. He (she) is out there somewhere!
Posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 11, 2012, at 16:24:47
hi twin. can you say more about your doubts and how it ended badly?
i met with someone for 9 months who i had no doubts about. it had to end because my insurance ran out and stopped paying for him, he was out of network. it was going to cost me 100 per session, 300 per week for 3 sessions. 1200 per month!!
i couldnt justify it to myself so i left. and now im freaking out because ive met with 4 other people, NONE were a good fit. im scared that either i wont find someone else good or that ill need to go back and spend all my freaking money on treatment w. the one who was helpful.
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2012, at 17:18:26
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
That's a lot of money. Group theraphy out of the question? I liked that at one time. Phillipa
Posted by emmanuel98 on May 11, 2012, at 19:11:00
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2012, at 17:18:26
Don't understand traditional lie on the couch analysis, but I disagree with the poster who said therapy is just rent-a-friend. I saw a p-doc in psychodynamic (sit across from one another, engage in a dialogueI therapy for a long while and I can't even begin to express how much it helped me. Unlike friends (and at the time I had no friends because I was completely unable to be vulnerable around another human being), therapy means working on you and you alone. You say I'm feeling bad and a friend says, actually I'm feeling great. A therapist focuses on you and you know very little about them.
I had a severe trauma background which I had never shared with anyone and had put so far behind me that I truly thought of that person as a different person from me. I badly needed to talk about it and get help trying to integrate it. I could not have done this with a friend. I needed a skilled professional, accustomed to dealing with trauma.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 11:44:39
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by ron1953 on May 11, 2012, at 13:52:38
Freud was a springboard for a lot of other theories, and psychoanalytic training isn't all about Freud. He did offer a lot of interesting ways to understand how people function... but I don't agree with all of it.
There's a lot to be said for considering how we react to our therapist, where that comes from, and how that carries over into our lives. It can give you a chance to see choices you might not have known that you had.
You just don't get an opportunity to explore your patterns of relating in other relationships.
My 2 cents. ;-)
Posted by Willful on May 12, 2012, at 13:36:54
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by emmanuel98 on May 11, 2012, at 19:11:00
I felt an immediate connection with my analyst that was very secure and reassuring. This wasn't true with prior analysts I had interviewed or the prior therapists I had. This sensation of being secure and able to trust is maybe the one thing that really gave me confidence at a bad time to move forward, and not to look any further. I'd never had that sense before-- and without it, it would have been easy to settle for someone who seemed okay, but with whom I had nothing like this sort of rapport. There's an okay match and there's a really good match-- and the difference is huge, in the potential of the relationship. This is why I think therapy (or analysis) is so often not very useful. My intuition is that you might want to keep looking, or investigate whether you could somehow see the person with whom you did feel right.
More than anything else, the value of analysis (or therapy) lies in the work you can do with someone-- and I"ve just found that I"ve gotten to much deeper and more real things -- and that despite its being very challenging and difficult at times, this relationship has led to the possibility of deep change. I never got anywhere like that no matter how much or how little I talked to other people in the past
I also wouldn't necessarily say that analysis has to be done lying down. That's apparently very beneficial to some people-- my analyst does a lot of it. But then he's also a teaching analyst at an institute here, so he sees people training to become analysts--who I imagine want to explore all the options for the process. I tried the couch for a while and found it intriguing. I can't remember why I stopped, but it seems like a creative way to work.
Also obviously, analysis, even "traditional" analysis, has long moved beyond Freud's specific theories-- so the critique that Freud had a lot of half-baked ideas is quite irrelevant. It's like saying that contemporary physics is wrong because phlogiston didn't exist-- or Newton had a lot of wacky theories about other things-- which he did.
If you have doubts, though, I would keep looking-- because when analysis, or therapy goes wrong, it's really a bad thing. And doubts are telling your something you don't yet understand.
Willful
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by deerock on May 11, 2012, at 16:36:32
I strongly support what Emmanuel and Willful are saying - that it's the relationship which allows meaningful change to take place. Without a secure relationship which has that "right" feeling, the changes you are so hoping for won't happen.
Although I do see- an analyst three times a week, I sit facing him. Being able to see his face and body language is crucial for me, but might be less important for someone else. Lying down has the advantage of letting yourself speak more honestly, with less fear of negative reactions from the analyst.
While I know this is becoming rarer, I do have good insurance coverage, which helps a great deal. Is there any chance of your obtaining that?
Posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 16:06:22
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
I do have insurance coverage. It only covers part of the fee for the analyst I had who I had to leave. He chArges 200 my insurance pays 100. He won't lower his fee. I've seen four other therapists and havent liked any of them.
I'm frustrated because none of these other people struck me as being as helpful as the one I couldn't afford. So I'm scared that I won't find someone as good who understands me as well. It seems a rare find.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » deerock, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 14:33:34
Maybe your former analyst is worth sticking with, even if you can't see him as often as you would for a "regular" analysis. You can cover all the same ground, although it's easier to do, and goes a bit faster, when you go more often. You wouldn't want to go to someone who seemed like less of a good fit.
The fee you describe is pretty average. Where I live, fees for analysis range from $180 to $240 per hour.
Posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
To be perfectly honest, the analyst charges 300 per session and will not negotiate fees below that. I said 200 in my post because I didn't want to seem silly for being stuck on someone whose fee is so high. My insurance covers 195 of the 300 but if I leave my job which I may it's not likely my insurance will cover that much. So while he has been most helpful so far it often seems that his fee is out of reach and rather unreasonable.
Posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 18:23:21
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by Twinleaf on May 12, 2012, at 16:20:24
Wow. That is a very high fee, especially for regular psychoanalytic therapy where you would be going once or twice a week. I think almost all other fully- trained analysts would charge something more like $200 per hour.
I think that might be a deal- breaker for me, as it seems out of the ordinary. Maybe your best bet would be to keep on looking. It's a shame, though, since you liked him so much.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 18:25:15
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
Dear god,
Does the guy walk on water???
I'm thankful for my therapist.
I can afford him, AND he's good at his job.
Posted by emmanuel98 on May 12, 2012, at 19:13:38
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis, posted by sleepygirl2 on May 12, 2012, at 18:25:15
$300 an hour?!!!! I paid that to a consultant once, but he only charged that for consultations, not for regular therapy. My p-doc, who I love and who has helped me immeasurably, gets $115 an hour from the insurance company --$95 from them and $20 from me. It seems ridiculously low, but he has been in practice for years and said he doesn't do this for the money, that he does it because it's his life's work, he love doing therapy and seeing people grow and change, and he is financially pretty well set.
Posted by Willful on May 12, 2012, at 19:44:09
In reply to Re: psychoanalysis » Twinleaf, posted by Deerock on May 12, 2012, at 18:07:31
$300 does seem awfully high-- but I don't blame you for really wanting to see him-- if he feels right. My analyst once claimed that he charged that. I somehow thought that was what he'd like to charge in his dreams-- rather than what he charged. Maybe he has a few very rich clients-- there are people like that in this city-- but I can't believe he'd want charge that to most people. Some people do of course want or need money-- and it's not just liking money-- although if he does, it's just I guess what he thinks he needs, or should get. And if he has kids, college and grad school are insanely expensive-- and so is rent in some cities, etc. Analysts also don't get job-related health insurance. A combination of needing and being able to charge certain people that fee may leave a few analysts in the position to charge it. I'd chalk it up to necessity. I know my T has twins-- and maybe yours has expenses that just can't be put aside. We really can't know what's driving his fee.
Nonetheless, it's really bad luck if you came upon him when he didn't have flexibility. Still-- even though it's difficult--and may feel too picky-- to go on looking--- it's important to stick with it, rather than make a great compromise, when it's your life on the line. There is someone out there--- I"m sure you'll find him or her.
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