Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 1016782

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» Dinah » mutual admiration, I assure you....

Posted by 64bowtie on May 2, 2012, at 7:11:01

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 1, 2012, at 9:00:24

Dear »Dinah»,

Sometimes I remember how reluctant I felt and how the timing never seemed just right... I don't consider his passing a beautiful outcome...

I consider it an allegory and testament to the reputation of Kaiser/Permanente killing elderly patients... Immediately after refusing to replace his hearing aids they had lost, he became suddenly diagnosed as having advanced Alzheimer's...

Can you picture any Alzheimer patients able to call up 30 or 40 tunes on the harmonica without coaching or coaxing??? Unable to hear questions, he was a little slow answering; but answer he did...

Out of the other side of mouth, I am glad they recommended him for Hospice Care, because that allowed me to move him into my apartment, and supplied bed and care that made it so much easier for me to provide the food and meds to help make him comfortable... He remained noble to the end... I only hope I can be as noble as he was @ 91...

Rod

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by 64bowtie on May 2, 2012, at 7:50:47

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on May 1, 2012, at 21:34:06

»Dinah»,

Perhaps some yoga might help with your disappointment over your behavior; OBTW, we all would probably act the same if in your shoes... Cut yourself some slack; I would...

I am so lucky that you have remained patient with me over these last 8 years... I'm hoping your Son and Hubby do something or buy something really nice for you for Mother's Day...

In contrast, you can draw your Mom a map for Mother's Day so she can navigate the paths in her house........lol...

You're not alone; I have an ex-WWII pilot friend who just turned 90, who, sadly, still hobbles into the Casino, loses his money, and comes back home to his house of paths... We who know him have pitched in to get him 4 fire extinguishers and drew him a map to show where they're supposed to be... Its soooo sad to see him in this circumstance...

Stay safe and think happy thoughts...

Rod

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » 64bowtie

Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:36:28

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by 64bowtie on May 2, 2012, at 7:50:47

I was proud of myself yesterday. I worked several hours with my uncle, and discovered that he's a far worse hoarder than my mother. He insisted on keeping things that my mother would have thrown out. Every piece of trash had some potential use.

I didn't say a word. He was helping me accomplish my goal, and in fact it would likely take weeks rather than days without his help since I'm in awful shape. So I didn't throw out so much as a piece of old plastic without checking with him first. Neither of us fought, tho we probably each privately had our own thoughts.

The Risperdal I took before meeting with him probably helped a lot.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:44:15

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by 64bowtie on May 2, 2012, at 7:50:47

I actually think I'd admire the small landfill footprint they leave, if they weren't depositing it in her house instead.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by Twinleaf on May 3, 2012, at 22:06:45

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:44:15

This would be such a tough situation for anyone, with all the emotional stress of her physical illness on top of the frustration and rage that hoarding evokes in family members. Is there a way to apply city safety standards in order to get at least a partial clean-up?

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » Dinah

Posted by sigismund on May 3, 2012, at 22:10:28

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:36:28

I don't suppose these people are old enough to have lived through the depression?

When I was growing up there were boxes to save string and even used paper wrappers from the butter were kept to grease cooking trays.

Different world.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by zazenducke on May 4, 2012, at 9:40:44

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Twinleaf on May 3, 2012, at 22:06:45

> This would be such a tough situation for anyone, with all the emotional stress of her physical illness on top of the frustration and rage that hoarding evokes in family members. Is there a way to apply city safety standards in order to get at least a partial clean-up?

All applications to health department and elder protective services etc must be made in your brother's name of course. If Suzanne Chabaud and your mom got in a fist fight who do you think would win? I've always been fond of your mom. I like a gal with spizzerinktum. If she's in rehab ask social services or occupational therapy to send someone out to make sure the house is safe before they release her. If she's in a wheelchair now they may require that themselves.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » Dinah

Posted by sleepygirl2 on May 4, 2012, at 16:45:20

In reply to My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2012, at 18:20:49

I've been exposed to hoarding. Not growing up, but later on. It's a baffling thing isn't it?
My father is apparently a bit of a hoarder. He might face eviction, because of that and other peculiarities. He's obsessed with his neighbor who he believes is on an evil quest to destroy him.
My friend's mom is a hoarder. She said that for years they couldn't get hot water in the shower, because no one could be allowed in to fix the water heater. At one point, she said they'd moved to a new place, but had to keep paying rent on the old one because they couldn't get rid of the stuff.
So out of control....

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » Twinleaf

Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2012, at 10:58:04

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Twinleaf on May 3, 2012, at 22:06:45

They don't really care. I mentioned my concerns about her wheelchair to the social worker and she just said to make sure that a wide enough path is made by the time she goes home. Perhaps that will make my mother feel better about having health care personnel in the home.

I'm generally pretty good at detaching, so I don't always feel rage. But sometimes it affects me in a concrete sense, and I can't put aside the feelings. In general, I agree that people can live their lives as they wish. But unfortunately, it's not always confined to their own lives. When it reaches over to mine, it makes me angry.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » sigismund

Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2012, at 11:02:16

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » Dinah, posted by sigismund on May 3, 2012, at 22:10:28

Only as a very young child. But my mother's family were very poor farmers and did hoard themselves. I guess it makes sense if you don't have many resources, and can access the hoarding to provide what is needed. It makes less sense when you'd need days to dig out that string.

The funny thing is that many years ago my mother went to one of her sister's when the sister was having a nervous breakdown. She was horrified at the sister's hoarding, and considered it a sign of mental illness. But her own house is completely different...

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » zazenducke

Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2012, at 11:11:42

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by zazenducke on May 4, 2012, at 9:40:44

I'm fond of her myself, when the rage isn't predominant. There's no better person to put to the task of discovering something with limited information. With that kind of will, she can do incredible things. It's just not pleasant to have that will directed towards me.

The authorities won't do anything, but I wouldn't wish to do anything in my brother's name. I wouldn't refuse to take responsibility. I had to look up Suzanne Chabaud. I never have been able watch Hoarders - it makes me far too anxious. What I've seen is mainly screencaps and descriptions. I didn't realize there was a local expert. I wouldn't back my mother in any fistfights, but I'd back her will against anyone's. It was kind of scary to see her so helpless lately. I think of her kind of will as being the sort that God would use to keep the world turning. It's against the natural order to see that will weakened. But she's back to doing far better than anyone expected. If she wants to walk again, by George, she will.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » sleepygirl2

Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2012, at 11:15:05

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » Dinah, posted by sleepygirl2 on May 4, 2012, at 16:45:20

I could see something like that happening, if my mother had the funds. And of course, now I know my uncle is even worse than she is, I can see how their mutual tendencies reinforce each other. When Daddy was alive, his viewpoints kept her from getting this bad.

I like stuff as much as the next guy, but I would be too terrified of rodents to want to live that way.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by Twinleaf on May 5, 2012, at 12:22:49

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » Twinleaf, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2012, at 10:58:04

One thing my analyst emphasizes a lot is my becoming more aware of when I am angry - either at him or someone else who is important. It is quite stressful to experience such uncomfortable feelings more, but I have found it to be very well worth it in terms of general well-being. Fully experiencing the negative feelings seems to clear the way for stronger positive feelings later on. Not too easy, though!

It's nice to hear about your mother's intelligence and strength - that sounds like who she really is.

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder (nm) » Dinah

Posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 13:12:45

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:44:15

 

»Dinah» My mother is a hoarder

Posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 14:00:13

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:44:15

Consider my suggestion for a map, and perhaps even frame it and hang it on her wall for her...

Hoarders need to know what they are up against in case of fire... My WWII pilot friend, put a ladder attached to outside of his bedroom with plumber's tape just as a precaution...

He's embarrassed to let anybody see his lifestyle and his doorbell doesn't have a button, so he has a short stick of pipe folks use to bang on a "pipe" that goes through the wall into the kitchen to make a hell of a racket...

One time 4 or 5 years back when he didn't answer the "pipe" nor his telephone, some neighbor friends used his ladder to see if he was still moving... He opened his bedroom to see what all the ruckus was...

That one turned out OK... He doesn't drink or smoke, but he is a "textbook" case for Gambler's Anonymous... His daughter sends him money every month; guess where that goes... Yep, Texas Holdem and Puy Gow...

Rod

 

»Dinah» My mother is a hoarder

Posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 14:00:38

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2012, at 10:44:15

Consider my suggestion for a map, and perhaps even frame it and hang it on her wall for her...

Hoarders need to know what they are up against in case of fire... My WWII pilot friend, put a ladder attached to outside of his bedroom with plumber's tape just as a precaution...

He's embarrassed to let anybody see his lifestyle and his doorbell doesn't have a button, so he has a short stick of pipe folks use to bang on a "pipe" that goes through the wall into the kitchen to make a hell of a racket...

One time 4 or 5 years back when he didn't answer the "pipe" nor his telephone, some neighbor friends used his ladder to see if he was still moving... He opened his bedroom to see what all the ruckus was...

That one turned out OK... He doesn't drink or smoke, but he is a "textbook" case for Gambler's Anonymous... His daughter sends him money every month; guess where that goes... Yep, Texas Holdem and Puy Gow...

Rod

 

Sorry, toooo many moving parts to this upgrade (nm) » 64bowtie

Posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 14:04:17

In reply to »Dinah» My mother is a hoarder, posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 14:00:38

 

Re: » 64bowtie

Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2012, at 9:07:06

In reply to »Dinah» My mother is a hoarder, posted by 64bowtie on May 5, 2012, at 14:00:13

Perhaps she should arrange for food deliveries instead.

I had a cold the latter part of the week. After sleeping the weekend through I'm feeling better physically and emotionally. Nothing like a cold reset.

I have to deal with the situation later today though, and my level of tension will likely climb.

 

»Sigismund» Definitely a different world

Posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 16:21:46

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder » Dinah, posted by sigismund on May 3, 2012, at 22:10:28

Definitely a different world, however, its best to stay in tune with your surrondings... True, today is a "throw away society", but in the mid 80s, I remember a better test of value was proffered by a Realtor acquaintance who said that every Christmas holiday time, he would go through his garage and throw out to the curb any box that hadn't been opened since last Christmas, mercilessly... He claimed that his family couldn't remember what was in the boxes he threw out, so no tears, no jeers...

In my storage, however, I still have 2 or 3 boxes from my first business I closed in 1985, that I just keep dragging around... This post is beginning to haunt me...

I had another acquaintance who suggested that when I closed that business, that I could have saved money, time and trouble by locking the doors and walking away... At the time we were talking in 1990, that felt repulsive to me; not so much so today, and in this economy; or is it wisdom that is just now dawning on me...

Hmmmmmmmm......

Rod

 

But, But, But what about fire???

Posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 18:23:39

In reply to Re: » 64bowtie, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2012, at 9:07:06

<<<Dinah>>>,
She's lucky to have you as a daughter... Sounds like she would be meeting the meals delivery guy in the yard, though...

Rod

 

Re: » 64bowtie

Posted by sigismund on May 7, 2012, at 18:26:53

In reply to »Sigismund» Definitely a different world, posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 16:21:46

Walking away from the hologram seems like a good idea.

 

Re:

Posted by emmanuel98 on May 7, 2012, at 19:36:13

In reply to »Sigismund» Definitely a different world, posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 16:21:46

> In my storage, however, I still have 2 or 3 boxes from my first business I closed in 1985, that I just keep dragging around... This post is beginning to haunt me...
>
I moved two years ago. My husband and I had three storage spaces filled with stuff. When we moved, my husband wanted to take everything with us, but I said, we've been living here for 13 years and have barely looked at all this. We don't need it. I called this "getridofit,com" place and they just took everthing away. Not cheap, but worth it. Now, we keep nothing in storage, though we have a lot of storage. If I haven't looked at something in two years, I don't need it and out it goes.

OTOH, I took 3 years off of teaching and thought I was done with that, got rid of all my old notes, tests, books. Then I went back to teaching and kicked myself for getting rid of stuff.

 

Re: Storages Saga » emmanuel98

Posted by 64bowtie on May 7, 2012, at 23:41:53

In reply to Re:, posted by emmanuel98 on May 7, 2012, at 19:36:13

Believe me, I know the feeling... Much of this stuff has to do with timing...

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder

Posted by pegasus on May 9, 2012, at 10:59:29

In reply to My mother is a hoarder, posted by Dinah on April 30, 2012, at 18:20:49

I just got back into town after spending time with my folks, and found this thread, which is so right on target for me. My parents are not extreme hoarders, but I think they're thematic hoarders. They have every horizontal surface covered with stacks of books several feet high. They have a basement that sounds like your mom's house, with the stacks being made of books. There are bookcases on the stairway filled with dusty books that no one has ever opened. It drives me crazy. There are, for example, dozens of dictionaries for various foreign languages. How many German-English dictionaries does one need?

I can hardly stand to be in their house, although they don't seem to think there is anything amiss. When my dad picked me up from the airport, he couldn't put my luggage in the trunk, because it was full of books. The backseat was also full of books, except for a little space carved out specially for me to sit.

I think my dad is worse than my mom. She loves books, but she seems to read most of the books she buys. He'll go to Goodwill and buy cartons of books, which I can't imagine that he'll ever read. But he thinks he will. He told me last week that now that he's 82, he is realizing that he may never read all of his books. What!?!? He thought he would actually *read* all of those? No one could read them all, if all they did during their lifetime was read!

I think it's what makes me a neatnik. I can't stand clutter, and I am almost compulsive about keeping things organized. I see it as a psychological defense that is maybe no longer needed.

Sigh. I dread the day they try to move out of that house, and we have to go through all of that stuff. I'd pay some serious money to have someone else clear the place out. Although, it does tug at my heart to know that it would mean that I'd never uncover my mom's wedding dress, for example, or childhood mementos that I'm sure are in there somewhere, etc.

Anyway, I guess I'm just saying what others have said: you're not alone, and it *is* really hard.

- P

 

Re: My mother is a hoarder » pegasus

Posted by jane d on May 9, 2012, at 14:30:32

In reply to Re: My mother is a hoarder, posted by pegasus on May 9, 2012, at 10:59:29

Do your parents have access to and use the internet?

I and many of my family had (and loved) homes that were like libraries. The point was never to read every book there - it was to have at your fingertips a book on any given subject that you suddenly wanted to know about. You could say we were web surfers before there was a web.

The internet has made some of this unnecessary. For instance I no longer keep those foreign language dictionaries. The internet is so much better for that.

I do understand your dread. I was the one who had to move all my fathers books and I still ache just thinking about it even though I love books myself. But you don't have to do that. If that time comes you can make arrangements for someone to remove just the books. With any luck they might even pay you for them. Then you can focus on just those things that have sentimental meaning to you.


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