Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 1011500

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

'Who doesn't want to kill the father?'

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

I think of that quote every day lately. It's from Dostoevsky (by way of Bukowski's "Ham on Rye").

I hate my dad. I've never fully understood why. He's passive-aggressive and controlling; I remember how, as a teenager, each time I'd make some (in my eyes) harmless transgression, like accidentally leaving a used glass on the countertop, he'd blow his fuse. I was never permitted to defend myself. Things always had to be his way. Eventually, for all his niceties, I just gave up on trying to have a relationship with him.

I'm not sure if that was unfair on my part. But I just feel sick whenever I'm around him. He makes me uneasy. He'll behave extremely pleasantly, but then I never know when he's going to 'turn'. He's defensive. He can't take criticism. If I say one wrong thing, it sets him off. He sets out to blame you for your mistakes. There's no integration to his personality. From what I understand, he had a very emotionally abusive relationship with his father.

What's sad (or funny?) is that I work for him two days a week. We drive around for 6 hours in near-complete silence. I just can't bring myself to say a word to this man.

And yet, I'm dependent on him for money, shelter, food. Next month, I'm finally entitled to receive disability. I could move out, but it would leave me on quite shaky financial ground.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe it's my own psychological state, but I feel so alienated and uneasy at home, like I might be thrown out at any minute. Both my parents have clear deficits in empathy. This post was triggered because my leaden paralysis became so bad these past few days that I literally haven't left bed. When I tried to explain what was going on - that I feel things are deteriorating - my dad started interrogating me, asking me "Who said so?", as if some authority figure has to give their seal of approval.

He thinks I don't talk to him because I'm depressed. It makes no difference. I could be high on Ecstacy and despise him. My psychiatrist says I've formed a worldview where people are inherently hostile, dictatorial, narrow-minded and desperate to blame/fault me. It's not hard to see where that came from.

But is it wrong to not forgive someone for lashing out at you from time-to-time? Those teenage memories are just so vivid - like scars. I have no recollection of him in my childhood, so there may be more.

I feel like I kind of have the choice now of leaving, or trying to suppress all my inner turmoil and exchanging pleasantries to keep our household intact. My psychiatrist is doubtful the latter plan would work. He claims my subconscious would never allow it, that the only solution is to stand up to a bully.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit

Posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 9:39:12

In reply to 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

It sounds like your household is already broken. What is there to keep intact? It is likely your childhood was worse in that there was a less formed you to deal with your father's aggression. Even if he behaved exactly the same as he did today and did not act out when asked to deal with an essentially irrational child (as children are chaotic and forming). This sometimes does not bring out the best in already taxed, inexperienced parents.

I found the poem you mention. It is my favorite Bukowski
poem. I hope you don't mind me posting it. It speaks volumes and I think it is angry and amazing.
  
Three Oranges

 first time my father overheard me listening to
this bit of music he asked me,
"what is it?"
"it's called Love For Three Oranges,"
I informed him.
"boy," he said, "that's getting it
cheap."
he meant sex.
listening to it
I always imagined three oranges
sitting there,
you know how orange they can
get,
so mightily orange.
maybe Prokofiev had meant
what my father
thought.
if so, I preferred it the
other way
the most horrible thing
I could think of
was part of me being
what ejaculated out of the
end of his
stupid penis.
I will never forgive him
for that,
his trick that I am stuck
with,
I find no nobility in
parenthood.
I say kill the Father
before he makes more
such as
I.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit

Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 25, 2012, at 9:57:03

In reply to 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

He's given you a lot of reasons to hate him.
You've kept a distance from him for good reasons.
I guess I can only share what parts of this I can relate to.
My mother. She can "turn", as you put it so well.
And unleash a barrage of insults meant to hurt, damage.
Yes, she had an emotionally abusive upbringing. I always have some amount of tension around her, even if all seems well. Like I'm preparing.
And money, well, I've accepted that, a number of times from her. Sometimes it feels like I'm selling my soul, but in a way, it's how she knows to relate.
That "who says" thing, that sounds particularly annoying. Sounds like you have to justify yourself.
You sound like, due to many complicated factors, that the situation leaves you in a helpless kind of state.
With my mother, this is the worst place to be, easy prey.
I keep quiet, don't make waves, don't say how I feel, stay under the radar.
...just know, that you don't deserve it.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » Beckett

Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 25, 2012, at 10:10:03

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit, posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 9:39:12

That's a great poem. "so mightily orange", gotta love that :-).

 

I don't » g_g_g_unit

Posted by Dinah on February 25, 2012, at 10:26:22

In reply to 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

I'd give anything for Daddy to be alive. I miss him every day of my life. He was difficult and demanding at times. But I adored him, and I suspect he adored me. Though he'd never admit it, I'm sure.

I have a difficult mother, and do find myself avoiding her.

I would suggest that you consider your life were you to move out, and your life were you to stay. Which one is more appealing? If it's more appealing to leave, then leave. If the financial deprivation would be worse than the emotional distress, then you'll need to stay and make the most of it. I think adult children living at home is easy only in the most ideal of circumstances. There must be hormones at play. I don't think I could live with my mother ever again.

If you do stay, it's pragmatic to consider how to make your life at home more palatable. What works with your father? I have a boss who's been unpleasant with most people in our office, but not with me. I'm not entirely sure of the reason, but I think it's because I cried once. This just may be what works with him. Or perhaps it's because I occasionally out-argue him. My mother nearly always quickly disengages when I bring up money or responsibilities. I don't consciously use that when I can't take anymore, but my husband sees a pattern.

In this particular case, with disability a month away, it seems like answering him wouldn't be that difficult. Would he be willing to get corroboration from your therapist?

Your father doesn't sound like anyone's notion of a good father. But you can't change him. You just need to figure out whether it's best for you to continue to utilize his resources and put up with him, or to refuse his resources and leave. Whichever you decide, you might find empowerment in the thought that it is your choice. And that the choice you made is the best one offered at the moment.

My husband is nowhere near like your father. But I think he'd be the first to admit he uses his disapproval to keep my son and me from descending into chaos. I think that's really how he sees it. If he doesn't control us, God knows what will happen. It's wearing at times. My husband is by no means abusive. It's all very mild. So mild that it would be hard to explain exactly what he's doing. And I love my husband and find him delightful in most ways. But the theory is the same. He's not going to change. I have to find a way to live with it.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit

Posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 11:08:21

In reply to 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

>He thinks I don't talk to him because I'm depressed.

He must feel a bit more than that, musn't he? Wouldn't he feel your anger? He would have to be blind to miss it. He could be of course.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?'

Posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 11:11:50

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit, posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 9:39:12

I say kill the Father
before he makes more
such as
I.

Oh my goodness :)

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?'

Posted by Raisinb on February 26, 2012, at 0:35:09

In reply to 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by g_g_g_unit on February 25, 2012, at 7:53:55

I do! My dad sounds a little like yours. Mine was emotionally abuse, passive aggressive, narcissistic, still is a little. I got out of the house and sort of *dispensed* with him early, but the wounds are still there. I've had a dude therapist for the past several months and it's funny how that will bring all those issues to the fore.

Anyway, i can't imagine having to live with my dad. Is it emotionally and financially possible for you to leave?

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » Beckett

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 27, 2012, at 6:25:51

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit, posted by Beckett on February 25, 2012, at 9:39:12

> It sounds like your household is already broken. What is there to keep intact?

I don't know. Against my psychiatrist's advice, I feel like maybe I should just 'band-aid' things and give him the benefit of polite banter while working etc. I notice that when I'm nice to him, he's nicer back and it feels good. Then I'll make some stupid mistake and he'll reprimand me and I'll wonder why I even bothered.

The reason I try to give him *some* benefit of the doubt is because I suspect I may have problems with splitting. My love/hate for him turns on a dime, with every single action.

Oh, and I took the quote from "Ham on Rye", which is a novel, but thanks for posting that poem, it's chilling.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » sleepygirl2

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 27, 2012, at 6:35:06

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 25, 2012, at 9:57:03

> And money, well, I've accepted that, a number of times from her. Sometimes it feels like I'm selling my soul, but in a way, it's how she knows to relate.

Yes. This. I feel sick accepting their money.

> That "who says" thing, that sounds particularly annoying. Sounds like you have to justify yourself.

Yeah, it was the first thing that came to mind, but there's been more - mostly deriving from ignorance (I hope?). Still, I guess my parents have been nice in that they've stopped pressuring me to look for work, though it did take a meeting with my psychiatrist (after I was bed-ridden with fatigue) to reach that point. My explanation alone wasn't enough.

It's hard because I fluctuate between feeling like the victim and victimizer. I was reading that one function of splitting (in abuse victims) involves seeing yourself as wrong to protect your abuser. I know there's that involved here, but at the same time, I've been less than forgiving in the way I ignore my parents, flaunt my depressed moods etc. But then again, maybe their childhood treatment pushed me to that point, so it's kind of like chicken-and-the-egg.

> You sound like, due to many complicated factors, that the situation leaves you in a helpless kind of state.

I know. I'm just scared, because, at my most alienated and frustrated (6 months ago), I overdosed because I couldn't stand the backstabbing, vicious comments from my mother etc. anymore. Things like the confrontation with my father that prompted this thread leave me feeling very uneasy and fearful of being abandoned, and it's very easy to regress into suicidal thinking.

> I keep quiet, don't make waves, don't say how I feel, stay under the radar.

> ...just know, that you don't deserve it.
>

Thanks. That means a lot.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » sigismund

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 27, 2012, at 6:40:56

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » g_g_g_unit, posted by sigismund on February 25, 2012, at 11:08:21

> >He thinks I don't talk to him because I'm depressed.
>
> He must feel a bit more than that, musn't he? Wouldn't he feel your anger? He would have to be blind to miss it. He could be of course.

It's hard to say. After the first 6 weeks of working for him, and totally ignoring him, he finally confronted me and (in all sincerity) asked me whether I liked it or not. I would've thought that it would be apparent that I didn't, given that a) I'm 26 and living at home, which is bad enough already, b) I was forced into it, and c) we have nothing in common and have barely ever had a speaking relationship, so what did he suddenly expect to happen.

He also asked me why I'm so quiet around him and my mother, but can speak to my 'girlfiend' on Skype for so many hours at a time.

I thought those two experiences reflected a lack of insight - or culpability - on his part.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » Raisinb

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 27, 2012, at 6:43:39

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?', posted by Raisinb on February 26, 2012, at 0:35:09

> I've had a dude therapist for the past several >months and it's funny how that will bring all those >issues to the fore.
>

Yeah. It's sad. After working together for over a year, I'm still terrified of my (older male) psychiatrist/psychotherapist.

> Is it emotionally and financially possible for you to leave?

Not really at this point. That's why I think part of the motivation for this thread was just looking for advice on trying to appease jerkwad parents for the sake of your survival.

 

Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?'

Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 28, 2012, at 15:39:32

In reply to Re: 'Who doesn't want to kill the father?' » Raisinb, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 27, 2012, at 6:43:39

I never knew my father.

I'd like to suggest the book which saved my life after 36 years of abuse: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans.

You can NOT stand up to a bully. You can only avoid them and/or say very little. They have to always be right and will never change.


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.