![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by widget on June 25, 2010, at 22:53:49
I have been in therapy for 6 years. After about 1 1/2 years, I fell in love with him. He calls it tranference. I call it love. Recently, before a long vacation, he told me that my "transference" was getting in the way of therapy and then he was gone--for 3 weeks. I was miserable.
When he returned, I told him exactly how awful I felt and did feel. He was, characteristically, in-tune, empathetic, seriously sad because of my misery. He said that "like attracts like" and what I most liked in him (after asking) was what he most liked in me. OK. He also said I was his favorite patient (yes, he did). BUT, he couldn't
"go there" to love. He could say is find you "lovable" buy not "I love you". He told me he had always told me about his "boundaries" ethically and he had the personally, also.This is so understandable. He really loves his wife. He has a family with her. ok. I love my husband and have a child with him. And, yet, I love him. I must say, though, recently, I have felt I could not actually live with him. Why? He is on a different wave length than I. He is unmaterialistic to a degree I admire but cannot equal. That would be quite a source of frustration for me.
However, no one says my name like he does. He has the best voice ever. And, he knows me unlilke anyone including my nearest and dearest. After a very traditional, Catholic upbringing, I find his constant acceptance of me incredibly alluring despite myself. I guess that's just the way it is.
What do I expect? Nothing more than I have but how can I ever part from him? Widget
Posted by violette on June 26, 2010, at 1:00:45
In reply to I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 25, 2010, at 22:53:49
Hi Widget,
This is what I call 'therapy love' - Falling in love outside of therapy is also transference, from how I see it, but mature love is even more intimate-different dynamics then 'in love'. Do you feel both?
The in-love feelings are amplified by the psychotherapy setting, as you know, but due its one-sided nature, I think there are differences with therapy love and mature love.
I was just thinking about this today as well and read something about it on another website. A patient said falling in love with your therapist is analagous to falling in love with yourself. When someone continously reinforces your positive traits, accepts both the good and bad (and emphasizing the bad/guilt/shame acceptance), and understands you unlike no one before - those feelings can be internalized...and being in love is about feeling good about yourself.
Can you focus on internalizing the feelings that arise from being in love with T, thinking maybe this is about his acceptance, nurturing, and caring actually reflecting how YOU have been feeling for yourself from being in therapy with him? Though you don't want to give that up, perhaps you cam work on how you can carry it with you, because it is about you, then it may not be as difficult to think about losing it.
Posted by violette on June 26, 2010, at 1:44:52
In reply to I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 25, 2010, at 22:53:49
Widget, I forgot to mention-telling you that you are his favorite patient doesn't seem to be helpful in redirecting your focus on the tranference relationship feelings. Comments like that can reinforce those in-love feelings. Your T and your relationship and alliance with him sounds solid and healthy, from what little you wrote, but I would confront him about that statement since it could be reinforcing the very thing he said is 'getting in the way'....it seems he has some responsbility in that to address himself, imo.
p.s. I love my Ts voice too - it melts me. I accidentally deleted his voice mail from a couple of months ago (we rarely have contact in between sessions so I have nothing saved). Oops! I told him that in the future, if for some reason we miss a weekly session for vacation or whatever, I would text him and ask him to leave me a voice message on my phone. Just thought you might relate :)
Posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 3:12:37
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 26, 2010, at 1:44:52
Hi, violette, thanks for your wisdom. It sounds, truly, like something he would tell me. I understand your feelings and thoughts about telling me I was his favortie patient.
You see, before he left on a long vacation, he seemed almost brutal about telling me he did not have the "same" feelings for me as I for him. And, then, he was gone for what seemed like forever. I was really sad to the point of depression (which equalled a deeper depression). I was not sleeping well, not wanting to eat, etc.When he returned, I was a mess. He was incredibly "there" for me in my sadness and wanted to deal with it. It wasn't what he said but how he said it that helped incredibly.
Basically, I think he was trying to "give" me tha most he could since he couldn't reciprocate my exact feelings. He asked me what I liked in him. I said his honesty, his kindness, his acceptance, his unconditional caring for me no matter what, his belief in me, etc. He said those were the same things he liked in me and that "like attracts like".
I think he was trying to tell me he understood where I was coming from but reiterated that he had always been clear that he had his professional and personal boundaries.
But, yeah, it probably did make him even nore desirable to me. We are a lot alike, even in background.
I feel he is trying to honor MY feelings for him and not tell me, as he has, that I cannot possibly "love" him for the reasons you stated. (He stated them previously). I then felt I could not trust my feeling as they were so very strong and I was drawn to him. It is what it is! I am beginning to realize he will never be mine. I have been struggling with this for 5 years at least and have come someway to get to this point.
I truly enjoy his company. Being his favorite patient also is in the context of the type of practice he has. He has many people who are court ordered to see him and some with little committment to therapy. I am a psychologist by training, understand the process, (according to him) really work hard to change, etc. In that way, I can see he appreciates me as that kind of patient.
He is a real stickler for following the psychiatric rules of therapist/patient boundaries and I am 100% sure he would never cross those lines. So, I struggle. But, may I ask you if it isn't possible to love two people (my husband and my therapist)? I realize its not something that supposedly "works" in reality but aren't feeling what they are?
Again, thanks for the insights. I am beginning to feel I am as good as he sees me! Widget
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2010, at 9:31:31
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 3:12:37
He sounds like a professional with honor and compassion. It's hard not to love someone like that.
I think it's possible to love more than one person at one time. Otherwise non-only children would be in a real fix. You can love both of them in similar, but of course not identical ways. Because they play different roles in your life, and are different people.
Marriage doesn't mean never having feelings for anyone else. It means making a commitment not to act on feelings in such a way that would dishonor your marriage or disrespect your husband. I don't think discussing your feelings with your therapist in a therapy environment does either.
You can love your husband by recognizing that he is the man you are building your life with, and by working to keep your relationship as healthy and meaningful as possible (barring major breaches of the marital contract on his part).
You can love your therapist by striving to do your best in therapy, and by honoring his integrity in setting boundaries. It sounds as if he does "love" you in the way a therapist loves clients he cares for.
You are lucky enough to have a husband you love to build a life with. And a therapist you love to help you build that life with your husband, by helping you to be healthy and to learn to have a healthy relationship.
Not half bad really.
Posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 10:40:11
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 3:12:37
Widget,
Nice to hear back from you. I agree with everything Dinah just stated-different kinds of love, being able to love both your husband and T. I guess what got me thinking about your situation was that I had recently felt love feelings for my T; naturally (for me), I wanted to figure out what it all meant...and was just about to write a post about similar thoughts when I replied to your post. So I've been thinking about this particular topic alot recently.
When my T and I first got to know one another, we discussed different types of love in the context of an emotionally abusive former boyfriend, so some of my thoughts come from that understanding...
Your love for T may be mature-considering the time you've been with him, your attitude, etc, only you would know if that is the case. However, I think falling in love with anyone is more about feeling good about yourself than anything--which is why you feel euphoria feelings, btw--and is totally transference..for many reasons. So, I was trying to provoke you to investigate if you had the 'in love' feelings or mature love. Not that it is so cut and dry-but I think it makes a huge difference and you could be in the process of developing mature love for your T. And like Dinah said, it is possible to love your T and husband. I think that if you have a mature love with your husband, (it sounds firsthand that you do-but it could be that you still have unresolved issues that prevent a full, more mature love)-I think, after you figure this all out, that you will be ok accepting your love for T without guilt or major internal conflict.
This might sound idealistic, and perhaps I am more clueless than I think, but I think with mature love-in context of its most extreme concept-you do not worry about the other person loving someone else because you are secure and would recognize that your SOs love for someone else is not a threat...Just thinking out loud-if you feel guilty (whether conscious or not conscious) as a wife who loves your T-it could be that you would be deeply hurt if your husband loved a female T, for example. I do think with mature love, you and/or your spouse can have a love for another of the oppposite sex and can be totalliy accepting about it. I have never (yet) had this mature love myself, but this comes from reading books and stuff I learned from T. I have also intimately known a friend with whom I saw the beauty of mature love--he and I discussed his love for both his gf and a female friend...and her love for male friends..truly inspiring...
Here's some things about love from the view of one psychoanalytic therapist:
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sex_love.htm#love
I understand where your coming from-Ts other clients, the court orders, but I still think that comments such as you are my favorite patient are causing you to have those fantasies about the relationship being more than it is. Even if your T loves you back romantically rather than therapeutically, I think telling you such things in therapy is not helpful at all. If he were to say that once, I think its ok, I wouldn't expect all of Ts words to be perfect. But the truth as I see it-he is overinvolved and letting his counter transference issues get in the way of treatment. If he regularly says things about being special, favorite, or the like, I really do he should seek counseling or peer support about this. From what I see, Ts are (emotionally) either overinvolved, underinvolved, or neutral with their patients, in general. Your T loses his objectivity if he is overinvolved.
Here's an brief excerpt about that sort of overinvolvement (not saying that is the case, but it seems like it):
"So now let us return to your doctors remark about your hair. This sort of comment is unconsciously destructive because, technically, it plays into your unconscious need to make yourself seen by others as a way to cover up your feelings of inadequacy. It adds fuel to the fire, so to speak, and thus you end up obsessed with whether or not he notices you. Instead of feeling secure in his hearing your pain, you feel preoccupied about whether you look good enough to measure up to his desires. When youre in this place, youre, well, in the same gym with him; youre right out on the playing field of the brutal, competitive game of life itself. But youre not in psychotherapy. And thats why you feel so conflicted about his behavior. If he doesnt understand enough about the unconscious implications of his seeing you, then he lacks the ability to understand the transference itself."
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/questions/q_conflicted.htm
With your background-perhaps you are familiar with this-but there are so many different types of orientations, maybe this view would get you thinking about different possibilities...The article about 'being seen' reminded me of your situation (the issues of flirting, sexualizing the relationship, comments about your appearance-may not apply to you but this answer explains the concept of 'being seen' which may be helpful for you to further investigate...)
I don't believe in any one single answer or therapeutic opinion, but the answer on that link is part of a point I'm trying to make.
I think the timing of his "brutal" admission of his feelings not matching yours was a mistake on his part. I totally agree with Dinah your T sounds noble, etc., so perhaps this was just poor timing or maybe it was his acting out (I tend to think the latter). I'm really sorry to hear you had to endure painful feelings during his vacation. At the same time, I think highly of him for his reaction to your feelings when he returned.
Even Ts with the most professional boundaries can be overinvolved and let countertransference feelings interfere with therapy from what I've seen. I'm sure you understand this with your background and all-but it is probably difficult to sort it out with the strong feelings intertwined-of course, you are not the one who is supposed to be objective! Now the countertransferings feelings can be very helpful to therapy, but I think if I were in your position, although I don't know the whole situation, I feel I'd probably ask him if he sought consultation for the way he reacts to his possible CT feelings...
I have fallen in love with my T as well. He handles it beautifully, not to say I don't experience painful feelings in that context. When I told him once I look forward to seeing him each week, he responded - I look forward to seeing you each week as well. That was probably the closest he had ever come to 'gratifying' me rather than remaining neutral/objective. One time he called me 'sweetheart', another he said I was being cute..I felt butterflies in my belly (hehe). Other than those simple, but close to the line things, his not gratifying me or 'seeing me' like that article describes, allows more productive work analyzing the transference feelings, and I tend to not be that concerned how he feels about me or such possibilities of his returning the love..I don't crave the return of love--instead, I am very much satisfied with the therapy love he gives me. yes, I crave seeing him all the time, ect. but it's not as painful having already decided there is no possibility of the relationship being or becoming more than it is...which makes the whole process a lot easier and more productive with dealing with desires and attachment issues...
Unrequited love is complicated; since this topic was on my mind, I thought it might be helpful to share all of this with you. I really hope you get all this sorted out! Your relationship with T does sound very positive. I do think, however, you are rationalizing and justifying his possible acting out by pointing out--multiple times-such strong revelations about his 100% professional boundaries, etc...
It's great to hear you are internalizing Ts love...I am just starting to experience this...My thoughts are that it may be helpful to try to focus on how the love is helping your growth, more than focusing on him-you. But I think he might be a bit overinvolved and that is affecting your ability to do so. Sorry if my perception is way off, but I could really relate to your feelings and am interested in your story.
Good luck :)
:)
Posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 10:55:01
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 3:12:37
Just wanted to add one more thing-Just as I noticed the possibility of your justifying your T so strongly...your T may be justifying/rationalizing being less objective with you due to your professional background..To me, it sounds like one, major enactment between the 2 of you...Just a guess.
Posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 13:29:52
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 10:55:01
Hi, I just wrote a long message and didn't send it! Let's see. First of all, no amount of training would be really helpful in dealing with these "unplanned" feelings.
I believe my therapist said I was his favorite patient in response to my incredible sadness at what he had said before his vacation. He said this when he returned and learned how it had affected me.
He has told me straight out he has no counter transference feelings toward me. He has also said he does not have "romantic" feelings for me. He wants the same for me as he would for his daughter. To be self-confident, happy with who I am, etc.
He goes strictly by the rules. Therefore, he said he could not say "I love you" but could say "You are lovable." He shrugged his shoulders and said something about the crazy rules of his profession.
One other thing that was odd. Once, when this was being discussed, he got quite angry that his office remain "safe", a "safe place". I assume he meant not acting out on my feelings. He almost never, never gets angry. Curious. I wondered about it at the time. Ha, maybe he was just frustrated with me!
I am convinced he does not have romantic feelings for me and would never, never act on them even if they were there. That's all. Widget
Posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 14:28:23
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 13:29:52
That certainly puts things in context, Widget. I had the wrong impression, but totally understand where your coming from and his response to the hurtful vacation feelings...I wasn't thinking of his acting out to be 'romantic' feelings on his part, but more of generalized CT feelings (and less of a boundary issue) due to your background...if that makes sense.
I have no clue about his reaction about the safe place. Perhaps he was just having a bad day!
"He wants the same for me as he would for his daughter."
My T has said this as well-isn't it beautiful?
Posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 16:02:52
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 14:28:23
Dear Violette, Could you explain the "acting out" in terms of counter tranference? I think your ideas are very interesting. I just need more explanation. Thanks! Widget
Posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 16:06:31
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 10:55:01
Could you explain what you mean by this passage? The possibility of my justifying my therapist so strongly and my therapist justifying being less objective with me due to my background? An enactment between the 2 of us? How is my therapist being less objective? How am I justifying my therapist so strongly? I thought I did that to keep myself from wanting or hoping for "too much". I am really curious. Widget
Posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 17:21:46
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 16:02:52
I'm not sure how the concept or context of the phrase is use clinically, but here's an example that better illustrates how I view it or refer to it:
Therapist sees you upset and guinely empathsizes with you; however, he feels guilty about it. So, instead of being neutral/objective, he discloses to you that you are his favorite patient-he acted out his guilt feelings (just using that as an example). Another way he could act out is by calling you to 'check in' on you more often than other patients because he misses your company. Again, being less objective and acting on his feelings.
My T and I discussed 'acting out' briefly in the love context. When I told him about my in love feelings, before we discussed the feelings themselves, I was a bit nervous and said: I'm sure its not uncommon for a patient to have these feelings and my guess is that you have a lot of experience in dealing with this...and I bet if patients don't tell you, you would notice anyway. His response: yes, I can often tell, but most patients will act it out (as opposed to talking about the feelings directly).
For a patient acting out, my view is that it means not directly talking about/addressing the feelings. It could be things spoken indirectly or phone calls, covert manipulation, etc.
My guess is that it would be impossible for a T to never "act out", or act upon their CT feelings. I guess I'm just heavily into the unconscious, and my T thinks out loud at times, analyzing himself, and I think I've adopted the habit :)
Anyway, I hope that makes sense. I don't have a psychology background; my apologies if I use the term incorrectly or cause confusion.
Posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 18:02:20
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » violette, posted by widget on June 28, 2010, at 16:06:31
One more thing about acting out: if instead of telling my T of love feelings to work through those feelings, I (probably unconsciously) thought that disclosing love feelings to my T would cause him to like me more, than my disclosing the feelings could be a way of my acting out-unconscious manipulation. (The reason I told him about it was because I don't hold back transference feelings. I do have trouble talking about some past issues more, but am really open with him about my current feelings-especially when they are intense.)
About your other questions:
"Could you explain what you mean by this passage? The possibility of my justifying my therapist so strongly and my therapist justifying being less objective with me due to my background? An enactment between the 2 of us? How is my therapist being less objective? How am I justifying my therapist so strongly? I thought I did that to keep myself from wanting or hoping for "too much". I am really curious. Widget "
I observed that in just one post, you said these 3 things:
"...but reiterated that he had always been clear that he had his professional and personal boundaries."
"Being his favorite patient also is in the context of the type of practice he has..."
"He is a real stickler for following the psychiatric rules of therapist/patient boundaries and I am 100% sure he would never cross those lines."
You just seem quite defensive of him. I know I do that when I'm idealizing someone, and wondered if you were idealizing him, to avoid seeing something else about your relationship with him. It stood out that you said these 3 things in one post-so I just suspected that you, who keep reminding yourself of his professionalism, are trying to block out something that could be negative about his behavior that deep down inside, is perhaps troubling to you.
Although you recognized the defensiveness might be related to dealing with wanting too much, I had just wondered if there was something going on from a deeper level.
What I meant about his being less objective with your therapy because of your background is that perhaps he is not as careful with acting out his CT feelings (and maybe less obvious boundaries-such as emotional ones), because of your therapy-mindedness. He might see you as less vulnerable than non-therapist patients; so-unconsciously he allows himself to bend the boundaries (again, emotional), letting his feelings be part of the therapy-not worrying about an adverse effect.
The enactment - the 2 of you engaging in your feelings as 2 people more that what would be ideal in the patient/therapist relationship. Your T is in some way, obtaining gratification from you, while you are not seeing this by continually reminding yourself of his professionalism and firm boundaries. His being less objective because it is difficult to continually be neutral-and because of your background-he justifies this to himself-probably unconsciously (?) by rationalizing "she is a T, she's not as vulnerable as other patients, etc". As a result, you both are not moving forward; you are stuck and it could be because he is not addressing his CT issues effectively or appropriately. Instead of his recognizing this, he turned it around on you, which (in addition to feeling bad about the vacation) led him to feel guilty. Maybe-also his reaction to your safe place statement was related to this-maybe he realizes he is doing something wrong, or maybe he's not fully conscious about it-rationalizing, again, your background....
I don't know, Widget, these are only possibilities that surfaced in my mind when I was trying to help you sort through it all. It's interesting to me and I'm a bit obsessed with psychotherapy at the moment.
:)
Posted by widget on June 29, 2010, at 2:07:42
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 18:02:20
Thanks,again. You have given me something to think about. I appreciate someone seeing from the outside and giving observations. I do seem to be defending him quite a lot. Hmmm. I'm going away for a week. Talk to you later! Widget
Posted by healingmysoul on July 2, 2010, at 15:37:49
In reply to I still love my therapist, posted by widget on June 25, 2010, at 22:53:49
Wow, that sounds so much like my t!
In the past, he has made jokes about therapy being a paid friendship in a weird way. How years ago people would talk to neighbors more, but things are different now... anyway i made a comment about how my dependence is pathatic and how he is the only one i really talk to. How i am tired of having such a pathatic life...
Anyway his response was, "I like you as a person. I have freindly feelings for your." He has made comments how i am his favorite client and that makes it worse in a way, but makes me feel that there is something there.
All i can say, it hurt like heck!
Posted by widget on July 6, 2010, at 23:33:54
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by healingmysoul on July 2, 2010, at 15:37:49
I just returned from a trip and saw your message. Thanks! It does sound similar. It does make me wonder if "there is something this there." Are you still seeing your therapist? How did you handle the situation?
My feeling is he has given all he is willing to give and I must deal with it. It seems he almost says his feelings! It is quite frustrating. Widget
Posted by healingmysoul on July 9, 2010, at 14:25:38
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on July 6, 2010, at 23:33:54
I know my t is happily married and would never do anything that would harm his marriage or others would find unethical. I will just say he serves on an ethics board and that is because he is a man of great ethics and integrity. I don't think of him in a romantic way; i have referred to it like a parent or older brother kind of "transference." He doesn't like to use the word "transference." he is very rogerian, but know I'm special to him. I don't think I will ever get anything else because of our situations. I have told him i wish i met him under other circumstances and he never commented on that. There are other things I would comment on, but don't feel comfortable putting them here.
I've tried to fire him, but he always takes me back, but come to the realization having him as my t is better than not having him at all..
Message me if you want to talk more. It's something I live with and have come to turns with..> I just returned from a trip and saw your message. Thanks! It does sound similar. It does make me wonder if "there is something this there." Are you still seeing your therapist? How did you handle the situation?
>
> My feeling is he has given all he is willing to give and I must deal with it. It seems he almost says his feelings! It is quite frustrating. Widget
Posted by widget on July 9, 2010, at 16:05:12
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by healingmysoul on July 9, 2010, at 14:25:38
Dear Healing My Soul, Sorry for the dumb question but how do I message you? Thanks! Widget
Posted by widget on July 9, 2010, at 16:07:48
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by healingmysoul on July 9, 2010, at 14:25:38
Dear Healing my soul, I would love to message you but I don't know how. Please tell me; it would be very soothing to actually talk to someone in my situation (kind of). I definitely do have romantic feelings. Thanks! Widget
Posted by healingmysoul on July 10, 2010, at 7:33:03
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by widget on July 9, 2010, at 16:07:48
They have something they call babblemail, but seems really difficult to send and receive messages!!!! Would like to talk to you as well.
To save some confusion... :-)
You can email me at: lots2do09@gmail.com .~healingmysoul
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:02:37
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist, posted by healingmysoul on July 10, 2010, at 7:33:03
> They have something they call babblemail, but seems really difficult to send and receive messages!!!!
It may not be necessary now, but if you want, take a look at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
and if you have any questions, please feel free to email me.
Bob
Posted by widget on July 13, 2010, at 18:40:37
In reply to Re: babblemail, posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:02:37
To Heal My Soul, if you check the Psycho-Babble post, Dr. Bob has told us how to use Babblemail. I am trying to reach you but I get the message that you need to turn on your Babblemail. To do so, just click on his instructions, click on Babblemail and send to Widget. Hope you see this! Widget
Posted by healingmysoul on July 17, 2010, at 18:23:59
In reply to Re: babblemail » Dr. Bob, posted by widget on July 13, 2010, at 18:40:37
I just tried and says it is off.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2010, at 14:52:56
In reply to Re: babblemail » Dr. Bob, posted by widget on July 13, 2010, at 18:40:37
> I am trying to reach you but I get the message that you need to turn on your Babblemail.
You also need to turn on yours...
Bob
Posted by widget on August 25, 2010, at 4:41:17
In reply to Re: I still love my therapist » widget, posted by violette on June 28, 2010, at 10:40:11
Dear Violette, I have just re-read your older post and found many points to ponder. One I wondered about was his countertransference and being overinvolved. How do you think he is "overinvolved"? I honestly would like another's perspective. My situation with him is obviously bothering me, occupying a lot of my time and attention. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks, Widget
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