![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Verloren on July 1, 2010, at 12:56:28
As soon as I said it I regretted it (though only slightly).
I told Ada I was upset about her saying we'd have to be careful we stayed within boundaries for a reparenting activity I suggested.
I was upset because I feel like I understand "boundaries" and I'm not attempting to cross them, I'm attempting to get better. I don't suggest or do things to simply appease my need for her, I do them because I know I need to work hard at getting better.
So I told her it upset me and it makes me not want to tell her things if she'll throw restrictions at me like I don't know better. She said she has to say it, and that's when I blurted out "you're harmful". Then I quickly changed the subject by handing her a poem I wrote.
She just said "I'm harmful?" and looked a bit hurt, then took the poem and we talked about that.
I told her I was upset that she felt she had to remind me about our boundaries. I am constantly mentally reminding myself about our boundaries. Every time I think about her and what she can and definitely can't be for me, I am intensely reminded about our boundaries. And that alone hurts. I know what can and can't be. I don't like to have it thrown at me for things I suggest.
I'm a bit flighty, I will come up with many random ideas and need to be reigned it from time to time.
But! I don't think I deliberately do things just because. My reasons for wanting and needing reparenting are valid.
I feel like a child with a food allergy asking about a food I can't have. Like I don't know it's not in my best interest to not have it. And like she feels that every time she'd have to say "now you know we'll have to be careful what goes on that sandwich." When I didn't want to eat it at all, I just wanted to draw it as art.
I know I'm ranting here and you're reading this thinking, "oh Verloren, you should know Ada just said this to protect you. She has to say it, even over and over again so you don't get "lost" in make-believe land with her."
Am I right?
GAAH!!!
-Verloren
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 13:35:19
In reply to 'You're Harmful!', posted by Verloren on July 1, 2010, at 12:56:28
Well, "I feel hurt" might be more conducive to continued conversation.
I know how you feel. My therapist used to do that, still does do it at times. It hurts. He'd do other things too that hurt.
Perhaps there was something in the suggestion that raised caution flags for her? And maybe she's extra careful because of your previous bad experience with therapists?
I'm at heart a pragmatist. My therapist wasn't going to stop doing what he thought was therapeutically correct no matter how much it upset me, and no matter how much I didn't think I needed it. I suppose I respect him for that.
But we did work something out. Whenever possible, I raise the issue first so that he won't. It doesn't hurt when I do it. And when I don't see the need, he always says something like "I know you really feel hurt (or upset or angry) when we talk about..., but I feel like I need to say...." It helps some to have him recognize how I feel, even if the result is the same.
I totally understand your feelings. But do you think it's possible to come to a compromise so that she can do what she feels she needs to do and you won't feel as hurt?
Posted by brokenpuppet on July 1, 2010, at 16:44:15
In reply to 'You're Harmful!', posted by Verloren on July 1, 2010, at 12:56:28
that sounds painful...
i used to hate it when i had 'arguments' with my T, even if they were 'arguments' only in my head. i hope you can talk about it with her until the hurt goes away so it doesn't affect the trust.
I've had times when i didn't say what i wanted to say and 3 months later i would suddenly realise i was still angry with her about that incident.
but it sounds like you can be pretty open with her so i'm sure you can work it out!
Posted by emilyp on July 1, 2010, at 23:44:39
In reply to 'You're Harmful!', posted by Verloren on July 1, 2010, at 12:56:28
I don't mean to be critical, but perhaps you are being just a bit hard on her. You do see her three times a week - that is a fair amount for any patient. Her willingness to see you so frequently should be evidence that she cares for you. At the same time, regardless of who you are, seeing someone three times a week could lead to transference issues and perhaps a feeling on her part that you are trying to push the boundaries. Considering that you termed it a "re-parenting" activity, it is not too hard to see how she might be concerned about boundaries. I think she just wants to remind you that she is your therapist, not a parent.
Obviously, I don't know what either of you are thinking. But you might want to put yourself in her shoes for a few minutes. She clearly wants to help but it needs to be on terms are comfortable to her.
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 5:41:19
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!', posted by emilyp on July 1, 2010, at 23:44:39
Hi Emily
I don't know if she took it that I was being hard on her. I didn't intend it that way. The words just came out as a reaction to the moment I was in with her. And as I thought more about my saying it I realized I was hurt from her having to feel she should remind me about the boundaries.
To your point, I never deny having transference for her. I wish she were my mom. I wish I could have a normal childhood that I didn't. I love her in a way I suppose a child would love her mom. I had transference for her when I saw her once a week. And sadly, as I said, "I am constantly mentally reminding myself about our boundaries. Every time I think about her and what she can and definitely can't be for me, I am intensely reminded about our boundaries. And that alone hurts. I know what can and can't be. I don't like to have it thrown at me for things I suggest."
I know she cares about me. Although that has been hard for me to accept many times. And I know she needs to be careful for my sake. Having experienced transference before with my Evil ex-t gives me the advantage of not wanting to get lost down that rabbit hole again. But it's like my food allergy analogy; I know there are boundary pushers in reparenting but overall I need a safe place to have those activites.
Besides, I didn't call it reparenting on my own. That's what the activity is called from the therapist that designed it. From the website on reparenting that I got it from. I didn't make it up so the phrase is not something that should be new or alarming to her.
If she thinks I'm trying to push boundaries, (which I would argue that I'm not) then we should talk about that as a topic of discussion. I really don't feel like I need to be warned from her whenever I bring in suggestions for effective therapeutic activities just because she's afraid of what Might happen.
My last t wanted to help me but only on terms that were comfortable with her. And that meant I had to go to an IOP and work with a horrible pdoc in order to make that T comfortable. And she still terminated me because she wasn't "comfortable" enough.
I will not do such things again. Ada has always said that she puts herself in the place where the client is. Not the other way around.
After years of making an authority figure (mom) comfortable with me, being a good little girl who obeyed all the rules, who never pushed back, who put myself in her shoes, and put myself on Her level, I'm done with such things. If any t doesn't want to work with me on My comfort level then they do not need my money or my business. Ada or not.
-v
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 5:55:39
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2010, at 13:35:19
I'll have to work on the compromise. I don't want to yield from what I believe I need right now.
I'm getting a bit angry at the situation though and therefore my mind is foggier.
I did ask her last night if I had been doing anything to make her uncomfortable. She said, no that she had been becoming more comfortable as I have been opening up and trusting more as well. It's progress! At last! I can finally Talk to my therapist.
I will mention the red flags and how to recognize them myself first. I like your suggestion of beating her to the punch in a way.
I should also mention that the first time we Ever discussed our boundaries was when I came in a few weeks ago with a list of boundaries and behaviors and said to her "let's talk about your boundaries so I know what to expect" and we went through the whole list discussing the different topics of what was and was Not appropriate for our relationship.
I guess that's why I took it so hard. Because I had to bring up boundaries with her in the first place or who knows when she would have talked about them. (wait til they became an issue?) so I know what is expected. I Don't need to be told. I brought it up to avoid being able to push one and say "well I didn't know better".-v
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 6:04:20
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by brokenpuppet on July 1, 2010, at 16:44:15
Thanks Bp
I was hurt. Not as much anymore I guess. I'm a bit frustrated though.
I will talk more about it with her. We are supposed to do the activity tomorrow so I guess that's the best time to bring it up again.
But I think I just had a revelation (again). I'm sure I mentioned this to her a while ago (hence the again) but I find it frustrating when I think she doesn't trust Me.
I don't want to do anything to deliberately push her away by forcing uncomfortable boundary scenarios. But I also need her to trust me up to a point and believe that I'm not trying to be deceiving or something. Trust trust trust
-v
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 8:01:04
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Dinah, posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 5:55:39
I *do* understand. I always feel the same way about the boundary discussions. They sort of make me feel bad. Like my therapist needs to protect himself from me. But I think maybe she was trying more to protect you from expecting more than she could give.
Therapists sometimes need to say things even if they realize you are aware of the boundaries in your brain I think. Because I think there's a difference between our brains and our hearts. Even after all this time, I get a little start of surprise and hurt sometimes.
I hope you two figure out a way for this to cause you less pain.
Posted by violette on July 2, 2010, at 8:46:31
In reply to 'You're Harmful!', posted by Verloren on July 1, 2010, at 12:56:28
Verloren,
I don't see anything wrong with stating how you felt in the moment ("you're harmful"). Also don't see anything wrong with the reparenting concept.
At the same time, I don't think people should go around being hateful with their T, but I don't see that here. It didn't seem you were purposely trying to upset and anger her...
My T encourages me to say exactly how I feel even if I'm afraid it will hurt his feelings. While most of our interactions are postive, I do get negative transference feelings at times. I tend to say "I know it's not really you I'm mad at-it's transference feelings, but after we met last week, I got mad at you when I was thinking how you said xxx, and after being mad at you and processing those angry feelings, I realized it reminded me of my mother doing xxx when I was a child"...
But-even if I did not state it that way, I can imagine that if I said to T "your harmful" it wouldn't hurt his feelings because he would look at it objectively--an expression of what's going on inside me rather than something about him. If you didn't recognize the transference at the moment, blurting something out like that can make for good therapy discussion and lead to insights about yourself (and sometimes the T...my T will say as he says he is always learning and open to looking at himself).
My T says any and all feelings are welcome and open for discussion. I don't agree with your T taking it personally; it seemed to be a reflection of your feelings rather than her, and I don't appreciate that you are feeling guilty about saying how you felt.
I have a childhood attachment wound and in many ways, my T is "reparenting" me--providing the acceptance and nurturing I never received as a child to promote the healthy emotional growth I had not expereinced from my parents lack of parenting. I think it's positive and healthy way to view therapy. I suppose not all Ts would agree, but my T is relational and attachment focused and psychodynamic, which works great for me. In fact, someone asked me the other day why I wasn't feeling well when i had previously spent years in therapy. My response that I was in the wrong type of therapy during those years. So they asked what the difference was now - in trying to find a way to explain it to someone who knew little about psychology-I said basically, the therapy I'm in now is more similar to being reparented.
I don't see how feeling guilty is helpful to your progress and hope you will not be so hard on yourself about having those thoughts and stating this :)
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 14:28:13
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 8:01:04
*sigh*
They make me feel bad too.
I like thinking she says these things to protect me. ( oh but then where goes my mind?) Then my happy mind says, she's protecting me from potential pain, just like a good parent should protect me. (vicious circle in my head) :-)
I was thinking lately that she was feeling uneasy around me. that maybe I had revealed too much and now I disgusted her. I guess part of me feels like her bringing up the boundaries was the same as her saying "ewwww, you foul girl, I do NOT EVEN want to be considered your mom or anyone remotely related to you. EWWWWWWWW! You sicko! You are not, nor will you EVER be my child. My daughter would not be as effed up as you are. And there's no possible way I can even attempt to fix you. But good luck with thinking that anyway. Oh and that'll be $100. Thanks"
I guess that's why I'm really hurt. I guess that's my own insecurities speaking and constantly thinking she's judging me, or annoyed, or repulsed by me. And then I think, wow I'm so impressed with her so far, what if I don't deserve her. What if I ruin everything with my mistrust, doubt and overall weirdness. What if I'm mean to her because I need to lash out and she hates me for that.
Yeah, I'm getting to a weird place lately. Not a good place but it's not the spiral I was in. I don't know.
Thanks for your insight Dinah. It helps with the hurt and I'm always fond of reading your responses.
-Very Verloren
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 14:50:32
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Dinah, posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 14:28:13
I think that's a very valuable insight on your part. Maybe it's something that if explored might lead to much less pain in your life in general. Even if you don't "solve" it right away, just acknowledging that it has an influence on your reading of situations might help you check what is fact in what you're seeing and what conclusions you're drawing from the facts. And test those conclusions by comparing them with your therapist's perceptions.
Congratulations!
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 15:38:06
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by violette on July 2, 2010, at 8:46:31
Thank you (((Violette)))!
I was beating myself up more than I normally do about this but I was also angry. Thanks for helping me not feel guilty about it.
I agree, and I think Ada knows that I'm not saying things to deliberately hurt her. Especially when I am left dwelling on it for days!
She actually told be last night that I was a "good client" because I was opening up and telling her about my feelings rather than holding it in like I used to.
My childhood was terrible and the more I read about reparenting the more I felt it would help me hugely gain emotional growth. And I simply want Ada to be a part of that. Seems silly to find try to a whole new therapist who specializes in reparenting without trying it with her first. Not to mention, I find it difficult switching therapists and would likely not do it again for quite a long time after her.
Thanks again. I'm glad you understood me.
-Verloren
Posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 15:40:53
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2010, at 14:50:32
Thanks! ((((Dinah))))
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 2, 2010, at 21:00:13
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by violette on July 2, 2010, at 8:46:31
My T never made me feel that boundaries were intended to keep me out or make me feel uncared for. He always reminded me of boundaries and said boundaries are to keep us focused on the work of therapy. Therapy is to work on your issues, not mine or ours.
Posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 0:01:11
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » violette, posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 15:38:06
Your welcome :)
I came across this article about the concept of 'reparenting' and wanted to pass it to you. (in case you need more validation or understanding :))
(reparative/reparenting=same concept)
"As psychotherapists, it is our skill and attunement in providing a new and reparative relationship that allows unconscious archaic insecure relational patterns to change."
http://www.integrativetherapy.com/en/articles.php?id=67
Posted by emilyp on July 3, 2010, at 2:02:22
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » emilyp, posted by Verloren on July 2, 2010, at 5:41:19
I don't think you have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable. But, in my opinion, you do need to consider others, even if it is your therapist (that is even though you are paying her.) While there are differences between your relationship with your therapist and those in the rest of your life, how you treat a therapist is frequently indicative of how you treat others in your life. And for a relationship to work, both people need to be comfortable. Sometimes that means understanding how others may feel, even if you think it is not completely fair or right.
What I find somewhat odd is that you acknowledge all the issues surrounding your relationship with Ada, including the obvious transference issues. Why is it such a horrible thing for her to express herself about this issue, especially considering that you believe her concerns may be valid.
You say "Every time I think about her and what she can and definitely can't be for me, I am intensely reminded about our boundaries." But it is hard for anyone to read another person's mind. She may not realize that you are dealing with these issues.
Posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 6:44:53
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by emilyp on July 3, 2010, at 2:02:22
I feel like maybe I must justify myself to you because this post is negatively resonating with you somehow.
I don't like feeling this way.
I do care about how I treat others therapist or not. I feel like you're reprimanding me for not being able to see how I'm disregarding her feelings.
I obviously care about Ada and her feelings in this relationship or I would not be posting for insight about her and this.
You said "how you treat a therapist is frequently indicative of how you treat others in your life. And for a relationship to work, both people need to be comfortable."
No. How I treat Ada is very different from how I'm interacting with others in my life. With Ada, she has been encouraging me to say my feelings and express myself. Even if that means saying "you're harmful". I feel like you have this notion of me going in there yelling at her and belittling her and holding my money over her head like some powerful arrogant a-hole. And I really am sad if you do think that cause that's not how it is nor how I am.
With other people, I can never say what's on my mind. Like at work for example. I'm content just being a follower. I don't like conflict so I stay on the sidelines a lot.
I dont understand what you mean here "What I find somewhat odd is that you acknowledge all the issues surrounding your relationship with Ada, including the obvious transference issues. Why is it such a horrible thing for her to express herself about this issue, especially considering that you believe her concerns may be valid."
I don't see it as expressing herself. Because she didn't say "I feel like you're trying to push these boundaries and that makes me uncomfortable". She said, "we'll have to remember the boundaries because I am not your parent". That's horrible because That hurts. I know she's not. And like I said, I'm the one that brought up the boundaries discussion in the first place. For her to remind Me about them does make me angry a bit since she didn't bring them up originally. I felt like it was an attack on my good sense. I believe the benefits of reparenting outweigh the boundaries we're not crossing. It's not like I'm asking her to spoon with me, change my diaper, and tuck me in at night. Just as I should see her point, she should see mine too. I don't see anyone telling Ada to put herself in My shoes. :-(
No. I'm still not going to sit in the corner and be the good little girl, in this relationship, to avoid awkwardness and discomfort. I just remembered I was telling Ada about a show "In Treatment" which shows sessions and I said how therapy must be difficult for therapist. She said "yeah it is painful".
I think Ts know there will be discomfort and dealing with the different emotional levels of patients is hard. Ts wouldn't be Ts if they weren't comfortable with the imbalance of the relationship.
Mostly I can act like an adult. When we first started Ada said I have the emotional maturity of a teenager. And I think she gave me too much credit at the time.
There are still childish parts of me that are incapable of "understanding how others may feel". That would be why I'm in therapy. If I were a well-adjusted person with the ability to completely understand, and have mature relationships where we are equal and respectful of each other and filled with self-awareness, then I could see someone being hard on me about this.
But I'm not. I'm just starting out in fact.
And as Ada said and is apparently comfortable with, she will meet the client on their level, not hers. That's her choice. I guess if it starts bothering her to be seen that way then she would stop saying that in her profile and telling it to us.
IMO therapy is nothing like real life. She coddles me where no one else in life will. She treats me like a child, and I don't expect that from my boss, or coworkers. I do expect it from her since that's the atmosphere she has created with me.
I'm sad you think therapy is a place where you have to tiptoe around not expressing yourself for fear that you might make your T uncomfortable. That sounds not good and not therapeutic for the patient. Everywhere I read the patient comes first before the T and all the Ts feelings. Doesn't mean treat them like crap, but definitely doesn't mean hold things back that need to be done or said in order to grow. Many of us were always restricted and suppressed. It feels good to be safe and not have to worry about punishment for wanting something.
Posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 6:47:19
In reply to reparenting » Verloren, posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 0:01:11
Posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 6:54:25
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!', posted by emmanuel98 on July 2, 2010, at 21:00:13
Yeah, I can agree with that. Boundaries help keep the focus on the issues.
Sometimes the issue, at the time, is the transference and the boundaries are well appreciated.
Thanks for the insight!
-v
Posted by emilyp on July 3, 2010, at 15:03:35
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » emilyp, posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 6:44:53
I guess we just have two different views of therapy. While it is nice to be coddled from time to time, I don't see that as the primary purpose of therapy - especially if one is an actual adult. In my book, therapy (for adults) is to learn the skills that are needed in the adult word while at the same time, feeling O.K. about yourself and making sure that your needs (assuming they are reasonable) are met - most of the time. Or perhaps the reasons we seek therapy - that is what we struggle with - are so very different, that the therapeutic experience cannot be compared.
I certainly do not think that one should tip toe around and not express yourself. I just believe that learning to express oneself is a critical skill and learning how to do that in therapy can be very helpful on the outside (thus the correlation between therapy and outside of therapy).
I also think you confuse what you can say to Ada versus how you treat her. Yes, you can be honest and express your feelings (i.e. say things that you would not tell your co-workers or friends). But I believe how you say them (i.e. how you treat someone) is important. And in my opinion (but obviously not yours) having her remind you of the boundaries is not a horrible thing such that you have to call her harmful.
Perhaps we don't see eye to eye because we are at different points in our lives, both in terms of true age (I don't know how old you are) and an emotional maturity age. I am not saying I am always the most mature. But over the last several years, I have focused a lot on learning to have those well-adjusted relationships. They are critical in life and without them, most people are very unhappy. And while a therapist can certainly fill that role in some circumstances, relationships with those on the 'outside' simply cannot be replaced.
Finally, I am not trying to be critical or berate you. But you posted something and others who may have a different point of view are encouraged to reply. If everyone agreed with you all of the time, what would be the purpose of the forum. And for that matter, if your therapist agreed with you all the time, what would be the purpose of therapy. I would just ask you to think about what you are seeking from therapy.
Posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 17:39:56
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by emilyp on July 3, 2010, at 15:03:35
I guess we do have different views.
Ada and I have discussed the issue and she understands me so that's all that matters.
I Would ask you to think about why you feel so strongly about my issue. And why you're so concerned with how I treat Ada when you are seeing one point of view, from a person so obviously more immature than yourself.
Our therpeutic experiences Cannot be compared. Perhaps there's a certain way you prefer to be treated as a therapist but you're not Ada and so your preferences do not apply in my situation.
I have not confused how or what I say to Ada and I don't appreciate your telling me that I'm confused about such things.
In my opinion and Ada's the harmful comment was not a big horrible thing and we've worked it through.
Yes this is a public forum. Thanks for reminding me since I seemed to forget that. I will not be posting on here as often from here on out. I don't like feeling belittled on a site where I mistakenly thought the community would offer insight and support.
It does sound like you are criticizing me especially when you start a post defending yourself from being critical. Therefore I'll choose not to subject myself to any more criticism from you by reading any more of your messages to me.
I'm Done
Posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 18:18:09
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by emilyp on July 3, 2010, at 15:03:35
Emily,
Verloren has stated several times she is trying to better understand her behavior, looking at herself, examining her reactions, and also seeking help to understand and work through possible relational conflicts with her T.
I don't know if this applies to Verloren's situation, but some patients with childhood wounds (like me for example) need to be understood and accepted and develop trust with their T before change is realized or before "critical skills" as noted by you are learned or used consistently.
Is it possible, EmilyP, that you are pointing out the possible 'worst' in anyone to deflect from seeing your own issues?
Not just in this thread-but take a look at your posts from April in response to Widget and Rnny, for example....look a bit further than that-and note how people have stated several times they thought you may have misunderstood them...Do you see a pattern in your behavior as much as you 'see' and so strongly point out of Verloren's?
(I thought I'd look through your posts since I thought you once said you were a therapist, but was mistaken...that was another poster with a similar name.)
While many people would agree it's ok to disagree-there seems to be more going on here. I noticed how you have repeatedly stated in your posts how others need to 'be adults' or mature. I see Verloren as a person with many positive traits, who appears to be be using healthy-minded ways of dealing with her therapeutic issues--she's trying to deal with 'her stuff' by questioning, seeking, asking, and engaging in therapy.
Notice how many of your posts contain phrases such as:
"I don't mean to be rude, but"
"I don't mean to be mean, but..."
"I don't mean to be harsh, but..."
"I don't mean to be insensitive, but..."
"I don't mean to be critical, but..."On the contrary, after reading some of them, it seems you outline your intentions quite clearly.
I mean to be harsh (notice the word "don't" is missing from this sentenance) because I'm not sure how else to influence you to stop and take a look at your own issues to prevent you from possibly harming others (either here or IRL):
I'm just calling a bully as I see one-bullying in subtle ways can be MORE harmful that outright agression...and this was mean:
"Perhaps we don't see eye to eye because we are at different points in our lives, both in terms of true age (I don't know how old you are) and an emotional maturity age. I am not saying I am always the most mature. But over the last several years, I have focused a lot on learning to have those well-adjusted relationships...especially if one is an actual adult." -EmilyP
I wonder if it is you who actually has wishes to be 'coddled'?
"Finally, I am not trying to be critical or berate you." - EmilyP
Really?
"I would just ask you to think about what you are seeking from therapy." - EmilyP
Do you think that maybe you should ask yourself to think about what you are seeking from therapy?
It's also interesting that you promote CBT to others-yet you state your PDoc is you therapist (does he practice CBT?). Again, that pattern sounds familiar.
Maybe, then, you could talk to your PDoc/T about these concepts:
"Passive Aggression:
The individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by indirectly and unassertively expressing aggression toward others. There is a facade of overt compliance masking covert resistance, resentment, or hostility. Passive aggression often occurs in response to demands for independent action or performance or the lack of gratification of dependent wishes but may be adaptive for individuals in subordinate positions who have no other way to express assertiveness more avertly.Projection:
Attributing one's thoughts or impulses to another person. In common use, this is limited to unacceptable or undesirable impulses. Examples: (1) a man, unable to accept that he has competitive or hostile feelings about an acquaintance, says, He doesnt like me. (2) a woman, denying to herself that she has sexual feelings about a co-worker, accuses him, without basis, of flirt and described him as a wolf.Denial:
Failing to recognize obvious implications or consequences of a thought, act, or situation. Examples: (1) a person having an extramarital affair gives no thought to the possibility of pregnancy. (2) persons living near a volcano disregard the dangers involved. (3) a disabled person plans to return to former activities without planning a realistic program of rehabilitation.Devaluation:
The individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by attributing exaggerated negative qualities to self or others."You might find this website useful:
http://www.crosscreekcounseling.com/defense_mech.html
(Yes too many triggers on this site for me-I realize that and yes I am on my way out...but I am not apologizing for trying to prevent harm to others--especially the covert kind-what I think can be the most dangerous kind....)
Posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 18:26:19
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » emilyp, posted by Verloren on July 3, 2010, at 17:39:56
Verloren,
I was writing out that last post before i saw your response where i saw you felt similar as I did about a reply to you...regardless, I want to say I'm sorry if I offended you in any way by writing that last post. I see that your way of handling the situation was perhaps more mature than mine...
Sorry, I just could not stand it any longer...and had to speak up....
Take care,
Violette
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 3, 2010, at 20:22:02
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » Verloren, posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 18:26:19
I'm glad you and Ada are working through this. That is the whole point of therapy. Maybe what people reacted negatively to is your saying "you're harmful" rather than using what CBT therapists call "I" statements. I find that harmful. This feels harmful to me. I have learned to do this a lot with my husband and daughter and friends, as well as with my therapist. I say things like: I feel badgered by you. I'm afriad you're angry with me. I get defensive when you state things that way. It's helped me a lot.
Posted by emilyp on July 4, 2010, at 2:04:39
In reply to Re: 'You're Harmful!' » emilyp, posted by violette on July 3, 2010, at 18:18:09
1. I don't promote CBT or any specific form of therapy. It has nothing to do with the fact that my psychiatrist is my therapist. I have had a previous situation where my therapist was not my psychiatrist. (Then the therapist developed a life threatening disease and could no longer practice, so I have experienced a difficult therapeutic relationship and understand many of the issues that are involved.)
2. Perhaps all my posts start that way because I have found a pattern with many people on this site: only 100% agreement is allowed. If you bring up other perspectives you are considered mean or unsympathetic. It is also why I comment very infrequently. There is little willingness to engage in thoughtful debate.
3. I am certainly not the one who needs to be coddled. Regardless, I suspect most therapists don't see their role as coddlers. Yes, they can be compassionate and empathetic. But I don't think there is a class called Coddling that perspective therapists are required to take.
4. I have never said that I don't have my own issues. I know them well and I struggle with them in many ways. But the four traits you point out do not describe me in any way. Maybe you just want me to be the bad guy because I am not someone who always agrees and thinks the patient's behavior is always 100% acceptable.
5. I never diagnose anyone from their posts. I clearly don't think I have enough knowledge or understanding. Maybe it would be better if you got to know someone (beyond a few posts on a forum where no one uses their real name) before you started telling them what their problems are.
6. The only thing that I agree with you about is that you are critical and harsh, especially of someone who has not been critical of you.
7. Now I know why this community is so small. It has far less to do with Twitter or Facebook and much more about the fact that diversity is not appreciated - in fact it is not desired at all.
8. Finally, since you are defending Verloren and since she won't read my future posts, please tell her that in the future I will not comment on her posts. Clearly she wants other things from this forum than what I am able to contribute.
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