Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 944698

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Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by Justherself54 on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:49

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 23, 2010, at 20:49:47

I'm sorry if this pisses you off, but I seriously doubt you had a perfect childhood.

Ummm, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion from my very short sentence that I had a perfect childhood. Of course I didn't, who has? How does one determine a perfect childhood?

My family history is riddled with anxiety and depressive disorders. I know in my bones it's genetic.


 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:49

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by Justherself54 on April 23, 2010, at 21:30:57

> I'm sorry if this pisses you off, but I seriously doubt you had a perfect childhood.
>
> Ummm, I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion from my very short sentence that I had a perfect childhood. Of course I didn't, who has? How does one determine a perfect childhood?
>
> My family history is riddled with anxiety and depressive disorders. I know in my bones it's genetic.
>
>
>

I'm sorry for coming off the way I did in my last message. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying.

Think about this, if your parents were never treated for their struggles with anxiety and depression, don't you think it's possible that they were not equipped to give you what you needed, which in turn resulted in you struggling more with your predisposition than you would have? If your mother is experiencing anxiety and depression when you are very young, you are absorbing her negative energy like a sponge soaks up water, ultimately affecting your psychological development.

I just think you might be oversimplifying things as many do. It's easier to accept things this way. Then there is no reason to face the past and the possible anger, pain, and sadness you carry deep withing as a result of not getting what you needed. Then there is no reason to go to therapy and do all the hard work necessary to deal with what lingers inside you. Then you can just accept that the cure is in medication and medication will fix your flawed biology.

 

Re: nothing helps SLS

Posted by Bob on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:50

In reply to Re: nothing helps Linda Bee, posted by SLS on April 21, 2010, at 16:10:58

> > sorry to sound so pessimistic;
>
> Who could blame you? You are among friends here who have had experiences similar to yours. I have begun to resign myself to living in a depressed state indefinitely. Nothing helps.
>
> It looks as if your doctor is competent based upon the drugs he has selected for you. I had success combining MAOI drugs with TCA drugs twenty years ago. I no longer respond adequately to this treatment. Unfortunately, it is as good as it gets for me. Still, it makes sense to continue trying different treatments as they become available.
>
>
> - Scott


Man. I know it may very well be the case for many of us, but it is difficult to hear. In all your years of treatment Scott, have you ever tried ECT? I don't think I've ever heard you mention it.

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by Justherself54 on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:50

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 23, 2010, at 22:16:26

>>Then there is no reason to face the past and the possible anger, pain, and sadness you carry deep withing as a result of not getting what you needed.

The only anger, pain and sadness I carry it due to the fact I have treatment resistance bipolar depression. I hold no anger, pain or sadness towards my parents for the bumps and bruises along the road of my life..they did the best they could with what they had at the time. That's life.

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:51

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by Justherself54 on April 23, 2010, at 23:39:28

> >>Then there is no reason to face the past and the possible anger, pain, and sadness you carry deep withing as a result of not getting what you needed.
>
> The only anger, pain and sadness I carry it due to the fact I have treatment resistance bipolar depression. I hold no anger, pain or sadness towards my parents for the bumps and bruises along the road of my life..they did the best they could with what they had at the time. That's life.

This is true, that is life. This way of looking at things is viewed by many to also be a major coping mechanism.

I'm not directly consciously angry with my parents either, but subconsciously, I know the anger lurked for many years. Your view is a safe and conservative one. It reminds me of the view that all parents love their children-unfortunately, this is not true. This is a conservative belief. Who wants to think that a parent, or even worse, your(I mean this generally, not speaking of you) parent did not truly love their child. These are the intangible things that I believe we as a society have a difficult time with.

Just like most of us did not get what we needed in our childhood, most of us carry anger in our subconscious minds as a result. It is one of the most difficult things to face this anger and realize how much of a driving force it has been in our lives. You don't have to be an angry person to carry this anger and have it affect your life in a negative way. Some people are addicted to sex as a way of dealing with their anger. Some people act out in crazy ways as a result of their anger. I would even argue that anger could be one of several contributing factors to developing a more severe case of bipolar than may have developed without the anger.

You can never underestimate the subconscious mind. Never.

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:51

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 24, 2010, at 0:28:07

I apologize if I am coming off as arrogant and opinionated. I am simply very passionate about what I believe in and can get a bit carried away in expressing those beliefs.

 

Re: nothing helps Bob

Posted by SLS on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:52

In reply to Re: nothing helps SLS, posted by Bob on April 23, 2010, at 22:34:11

Hi Bob.

> Man. I know it may very well be the case for many of us, but it is difficult to hear. In all your years of treatment Scott, have you ever tried ECT? I don't think I've ever heard you mention it.

I had one course of ECT in 1991. I underwent 15 treatments. I experienced a mild improvement after the fifth treatment that lasted for a fraction of a day. Thereafter, nothing. The first six or seven treatments were unilateral left. The remainder were bilateral. I don't know what the dosage was. In a correspondence with Max Fink, he suggested that more recent protocols are more effective. Still, I am reluctant to do it again. I didn't like the way I was cognitively altered after the bilateral treatments. I know that high-dosage unilateral right is supposed to be almost as effective as bilateral or bitemporal, but with much reduced cognitive side effects.

I have not tried rTMS. I would if it were available locally and affordable. Early on, Mark George did not think it would be helpful in a case like mine. I'm not sure if his opinion has changed over the last decade. They have fine-tuned the treatment since then.

I appreciate your concern.

- Scott

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by SLS on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:52

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 24, 2010, at 1:14:34

> I apologize if I am coming off as arrogant and opinionated. I am simply very passionate about what I believe in and can get a bit carried away in expressing those beliefs.

Me too!

Yes. Everyone has been exposed to psychosocial stress during their lifetimes.

I agree with you in that many, if not most, cases of depression are the result of an interaction between genetics and epigenetics, including stressful experiences. It occurs to me, though, that you will always find what you are looking for if perfection is the standard by which you compare all other experiences. Stress is a phenomenon that occurs with all forms of life. It is a state of challenge to homeostasis. It is probably necessary for psychological growth and improvement in man. An abnormal reaction (mental illness) to normal stress is pathology. How do you define pathological stress? I don't know. The line delineating normal and abnormal is probably fuzzy and somewhat arbitrary. However, it becomes easy to recognize as one moves away from that line. I have a problem with pronouncing every childhood as being riddled with pathological experience. Perhaps this is not your intent. So, the question becomes, has there ever been a childhood that you would deem normal and not a substrate for depression? Has not evolution built into the majority of us coping mechanisms - both physiological and psychobiological - to deal with the normal stresses of childhood?

I have bipolar disorder because I have a genetic vulnerability and I once stubbed my toes as a toddler. Sounds ridiculous, I know.

Abnormal reaction to normal stress?

Normal reaction to abnormal stress?

I guess it depends upon what you are looking for.


- Scott

 

Re: double double quotes emmanuel98

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 25, 2010, at 9:33:02

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by emmanuel98 on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:48

> Have you ever read Peter Kramer -- Listening to Prozac?

I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon

The first time anyone refers to a book, a movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though.

Thanks!

Bob

 

Re: thanks (nm) morganator

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 25, 2010, at 9:33:44

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:51

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 23:46:12

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:52

Hey Scott, I'm too tired and it's too late to answer all of your questions the way I would like to.

I will say this, I believe that proper parenting and nurturing is much more complex and involved than what you or others may believe it to be. IMO, it takes a whole lot to raise a well rounded individual that loves him/herself the way they need to in order to become a mature, capable, and content individual. It's not just about loving themselves, but also structure as well. I can't get into this now but I will give an example. I can almost guarantee that if we were to delve into the childhood of every person in jail that exhibits and has exhibited sociopathic(or anti-social) behavior, we would find specific aspects of their childhood that contributed to their developing into a sociopath. Is there a genetic component, sure, but most likely there was something/things going on in their development that caused them to become a sociopath. A child that had an abusive alcoholic father that would just beat the sh*t out of them for no good reason and then completely neglect them, not caring at all what they were ever up to, is vulnerable to becoming a sociopath and engaging in sociopathic behavior in their teens and adulthood. This has been studied over and over again. Have you ever listened to Love Line with Dr. Drew? If so, did you ever think it was interesting that with such little information and such a short conversation, Dr. Drew could usually guess what was going on in the caller's childhood that was contributing to their behavior. Maybe this is a crap example. Still, I think the guy knows what he is talking about. Anyway, we can pick up this discussion later and I will get to some of your other questions.

Morgan

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by SLS on April 26, 2010, at 6:33:25

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 23:46:12

I understand what you are saying.

What is the product of your belief system with regard to affective disorders?


- Scott

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by emilyp on April 26, 2010, at 12:51:16

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 25, 2010, at 0:36:51

I don't mean to be rude, but in my opinion, I agree with your assessment: you are coming off arrogant and unwilling to hear other people.

Some people may agree with you; others may not. Some may partially agree with you. At the same time, isn't it possible that some people want to get on with their lives and not go back to their childhood. I had an alcoholic mother and a father who traveled all the time. Was my childhood perfect - not at all. Did my parents love me - yes, but in the way they could. Did it affect my depression - yes, But was it also biological - yes. Furthermore, despite my parents issues, they had a 40 year marriage and were best friends. So while they each had their own flaws, I also had something to emulate.

Having said all that, both of my parents have passed away. Thus, I need to figure out how to move on in life and for me, I don't think digging up issues from my childhood will help. For me (and I am only speaking for myself), that is a crutch - a way to play a victim and not take the necessary actions. Even if it is true, I cannot do anything about it and moaning over it will not help me with the depression. So, my decision is to work on life skills that I can have an effect on - ones that rely on the people currently in my life and where it will make my life better. My solution also involves medication, which helps a lot.

Pushing this belief that individuals cannot make improvements or even get better if they don't focus on their childhood is short-sighted and unfair to those who believe otherwise.

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 20:07:54

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 26, 2010, at 6:33:25

Good question. I'm having a pretty crappy day-typical fatigue and head clogged misery. So I'm going to come back to this when I feel better.

Morgan

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2010, at 20:17:13

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 20:07:54

Hey, Morgan--feel better!

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 20:27:25

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by floatingbridge on April 26, 2010, at 20:17:13

> Hey, Morgan--feel better!

Thank You! I really hope to figure out what is going on with me soon.

 

Re: nothing helps emilyp

Posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 20:51:57

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by emilyp on April 26, 2010, at 12:51:16

Well I just left the page and erased the paragraph I wrote in response to you..Ugh.

I'm going to make this brief. I do not think everyone needs to through psychodynamic therapy in order to get better. That said, and I've said this somewhere before, there are many people, including mental health professionals, that believe just about everyone, even those that are not struggling with mental illness, would benefit from some form of therapy.

So it looks like you at least agree with me on a few points.

I think you may have either misunderstood me or I did not fully express my views of how the therapeutic process works-so much for brief. I do not think people should dwell on their past and place blame and become bitter-that would be counterproductive. Unfortunately that is the reaction that many have. In therapy, the goal is to better understand how our past may still be having a negative impact-on the way we feels, on our relationships, in the workplace, in the way we behave, etc. Also, through this better understanding, we find a way to have more compassion for ourselves, work through any inner anger we have been carrying, and work through any sadness we have been carrying. Therapy is not easy. Psychodynamic therapy may not be for everyone. Some may prefer CBT or group therapy or some other form.

I understand where you are coming from. It sounds like you are doing what works for you, which I think is great.

Maybe I am being arrogant. I only said that because I was afraid I was not wording my views in a more presentable manner. Text is surely a difficult way to express yourself.

I will agree that I am being fairly opinionated. Just like you strongly believe in what you expressed, I also strongly believe in what I expressed.

Wow, this took much longer than normal-Painful but I felt like I should better explain myself.

Morgan

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 21:23:24

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 26, 2010, at 6:33:25

Hey Scott I was thinking about the question about evolution. I really don't think evolution prepared us for the kind of stress, trauma, or neglect that contribute to mental illness. I actually think it may be the case that evolution set us up to be treated quite delicately. To make it clear, I speak mostly of emotional stress and trauma, and physical, when it comes from the parents(this has more of an emotional impact than any bumps and bruises).

Man I'm having a hard time articulating the rest of what I want to say. I'll try to make it make sense and keep it simple. In our primitive years, I think moms stayed very close to their children. Of course, the fathers were out hunting and gathering so they did not play the same role as the mothers. Children probably had more stability in many ways than many children in our more civilized years. I think as we developed into more modern man, things began to get more complicated. Basically, what I'm getting at is I think we have primal needs that have remained with us since our primitive years and we are genetically wired for these needs. I do not think we ever really adjusted or adapted to the ways much of the population of modern man began to deviate. Again, I'm racking my hurting brain trying to articulate myself well. To be honest, I really hope we don't ever evolve to be impervious to emotional stress and neglect. Our super sensitive psyche is what makes us so wonderfully human.

Morgan

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by SLS on April 26, 2010, at 23:58:36

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 21:23:24

> Hey Scott I was thinking about the question about evolution. I really don't think evolution prepared us for the kind of stress, trauma, or neglect that contribute to mental illness.

Evolution generally selects against those traits that lead to a reduction in the rate of successful breeding. I would think that a greater vulnerability to childhood stress in the form of depression early in life would reduce the rate. I guess it all depends upon when the depression emerges. Huntington's Chorea persists because symptoms don't appear until after the age of breeding.


- Scott

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 27, 2010, at 0:19:25

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 26, 2010, at 23:58:36

Good point. I think what I am trying to say is that the emotional stress I speak of did not occur in the same ways or as frequently during our primitive years when we were evolving. I believe we are, as complex as we may be now, still wired in the way we evolved during those primitive years. I just don't think much has changed. We still need close calm contact. We still need consistent emotional connection.

 

Re: nothing helps morganator

Posted by SLS on April 27, 2010, at 7:35:21

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 27, 2010, at 0:19:25

> We still need close calm contact. We still need consistent emotional connection.

Do you feel that this is a rare occurrence? Or perhaps it is not so rare in general, but more so in people who end up with major depressive disorder? It would be interesting to know if the rate of depression increases as the psychosocial stresses of modern society increases. It sure looks that way. If the heritability of major depressive disorder remains the same over time, then one would expect that environment plays a large role in the induction of depressive illness. However, I think it requires a leap of faith to conclude that all cases of major depressive disorder occur as the result of maladaptive parenting behavior or other psychosocial stresses. How would such a presumption address things like the occurrences of drug-induced mood episodes or depressions associated with hormonal fluctuations or even strokes? If these biogenic depressions do indeed occur, then I don't understand why one would conclude that all other depressions require psychogenic contributions. Can depressive disorders occur in individuals with psychosocial environments that are considered to be ideal? Never? I honestly don't know. However, that drugs can induce depression in people who have never manifested depression previously casts doubt that psychosocial stress is always necessary to precipitate it.


- Scott

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 27, 2010, at 23:42:17

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 27, 2010, at 7:35:21

Hey Scott I totally agree that there are many cases where depression is caused by some of the things you mentioned. I also believe in some of the causes that BB has spoken of, including Lyme disease.

I think depression can occur in people who's psychosocial environments were near ideal. I just think those people will experience it more briefly and have more armor to defend against it. Even the genetically predisposed, coming from the right environment-plenty of unconditional love, the right amount of structure, very little to no criticism, positive reinforcement, close emotional connection, the right amount of physical intimacy(not talking about sex West Virginia style of course), etc.-will be more likely to be able to live a normal healthy productive life without too much disruption. JMHO.

Morgan

 

Re: nothing helps

Posted by morganator on April 28, 2010, at 0:00:13

In reply to Re: nothing helps, posted by morganator on April 26, 2010, at 21:23:24

I wanted to mention something that my therapist and I used to discuss. It mostly revolves around the idea the the mother plays the greatest role in a child's emotional development, especially in the crucial early years. Even if a mother is close to a child, feeding them, dressing them, and bathing them, this does not mean that a child is getting what they need from the mother. One obvious thing is physical contact. The right amount of physical contact is crucial. Then there is the emotional state of the mother. Children are like sponges soaking in everything around them, this includes other people's emotions. Now to you and others may think this is ridiculous, but I and others strongly believe in it. If a mother carries a lot of stress, anxiety, depression, she may be negatively affecting her child. Man I hope I can get me brain back so I can articulate these things better.

 

Re: nothing helps SLS

Posted by bulldog2 on April 28, 2010, at 1:15:09

In reply to Re: nothing helps morganator, posted by SLS on April 23, 2010, at 9:00:46

> > Also, I am speaking more of people finding a way to love themselves more, maintain and create positive relationships, the pursuit of things that one is passionate about, etc.
>
> So, are you saying that every person who reports depression lacks these qualities and fails to experience these things?
>
> You describe the evolution of major depression as being multifactorial. Do you believe that there are interindividual differences in the construction of depression, or is depression the result of an unvarying recipe of contributing components?
>
> > And like I said, life is pretty damn depressing if you ask me.
>
> I don't find life to be depressing.
>
> > Maybe many of us very sensitive people are more prone to depression as we find it hard to protect ourselves from the ugly sides of life.
>
> No doubt. However, I venture to guess that there are people who find it hard to protect themselves from such ugliness who never experience major depressive disorder or bipolar disorder. What would render one incapable of this protection? Would depressive biology be a necessary element? Is it possible to be depressed without having having a biological vulnerability? Is it possible to be depressed without having a psychological vulnerability?
>
> > >How is it that two weeks of Prozac treatment can transform a life after two decades of failed psychotherapy?
>
> > ...I think for a large number of people out there that experience this kind of remission with antidepressants, there are still underlying psychological issues that simply need to be addressed.
>
> What makes you say this?
>
> > Unfortunately, sometimes many people feel so good that they end up believing that they do not have any issues and in the long run relationships and other aspects of their life may suffer.
>
> So, again, you believe that all people who have an affective disorder are, and have been, a psychological mess?
>
> > Denial is the single greatest and most powerful coping mechanism we have in our arsenal.
>
> Could you be denying that you walk among people with affective disorders who are not like you?
>
> > It helps to shield us from the pain and sadness deep seated in our psyche, and, prevents us from doing anything about it.
>
> "Us"? Did you mean "you"?
>
> I believe that some people who have unhealthy brains have healthy minds just waiting for a biological opportunity to flourish. Remember, some people with depression spend years in psychotherapy before they encounter a successful somatic treatment. I find it hard to believe that none of these peole have ever successfully addressed their "issues" prior to their biologically-induced remission.
>
> As an aside, I find the overuse of the word "issues" to be very unpalatable. Why must we all have them? We don't. Or perhaps I am in denial.
>
> :-)
>
> A sizeable percentage of women suffer depression invariably premenstrually. I guess they all must have issues?
>
> You don't know me and I don't know you. I think we should entertain the possibility that there be a spectrum of constructions of depression such that we not lump us all into one basket. How damaging it must be for people to be told they have issues to work on when they really don't.
>
>
> - Scott

Hi Scott and to Lou

Scott your following quote really hits the nail on the head for me and I might assume for others as well.

> You don't know me and I don't know you. I think we should entertain the possibility that there be a spectrum of constructions of depression such that we not lump us all into one basket. How damaging it must be for people to be told they have issues to work on when they really don't.
>

To Lou

Lou it is obvious that you have had the ah ha moment in your life that apparently has opened the door of remission for you. But there is a tendency for people to extrapolate their experiences to all and that in my opinion is a big mistake. I think the most we can conclude from your experience is that it may be the answer for some people. I would take Scott's remarks and say at times I find your posts offensive. Please do not make conclusions about my life. We are all unique and so the answers and treatments will be. My observations lead me to the concusion that genetics play a huge role in this broad disease labeled depression.Environment is a big player for others and that would include your ideas.

Please do not extrapolate your ahha moments to be the ahha moment for all of us.

Also I was in therapy for many years and have a very solid undestanding about certain issues but alas no cure. I have reason to believe based on my observations of family members that genetics played a big role in their mental illness.

I often wonder if this is the appropriate forum for discussions of religion and one's own religion. If it is okay for you, than that opens the door for many to begin proselytizing their religion and we probably have many religions in this forum.

 

Lou's reply-llowephenzaku? bulldog2

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2010, at 1:15:10

In reply to Re: nothing helps SLS, posted by bulldog2 on April 25, 2010, at 13:04:10

> > > Also, I am speaking more of people finding a way to love themselves more, maintain and create positive relationships, the pursuit of things that one is passionate about, etc.
> >
> > So, are you saying that every person who reports depression lacks these qualities and fails to experience these things?
> >
> > You describe the evolution of major depression as being multifactorial. Do you believe that there are interindividual differences in the construction of depression, or is depression the result of an unvarying recipe of contributing components?
> >
> > > And like I said, life is pretty damn depressing if you ask me.
> >
> > I don't find life to be depressing.
> >
> > > Maybe many of us very sensitive people are more prone to depression as we find it hard to protect ourselves from the ugly sides of life.
> >
> > No doubt. However, I venture to guess that there are people who find it hard to protect themselves from such ugliness who never experience major depressive disorder or bipolar disorder. What would render one incapable of this protection? Would depressive biology be a necessary element? Is it possible to be depressed without having having a biological vulnerability? Is it possible to be depressed without having a psychological vulnerability?
> >
> > > >How is it that two weeks of Prozac treatment can transform a life after two decades of failed psychotherapy?
> >
> > > ...I think for a large number of people out there that experience this kind of remission with antidepressants, there are still underlying psychological issues that simply need to be addressed.
> >
> > What makes you say this?
> >
> > > Unfortunately, sometimes many people feel so good that they end up believing that they do not have any issues and in the long run relationships and other aspects of their life may suffer.
> >
> > So, again, you believe that all people who have an affective disorder are, and have been, a psychological mess?
> >
> > > Denial is the single greatest and most powerful coping mechanism we have in our arsenal.
> >
> > Could you be denying that you walk among people with affective disorders who are not like you?
> >
> > > It helps to shield us from the pain and sadness deep seated in our psyche, and, prevents us from doing anything about it.
> >
> > "Us"? Did you mean "you"?
> >
> > I believe that some people who have unhealthy brains have healthy minds just waiting for a biological opportunity to flourish. Remember, some people with depression spend years in psychotherapy before they encounter a successful somatic treatment. I find it hard to believe that none of these peole have ever successfully addressed their "issues" prior to their biologically-induced remission.
> >
> > As an aside, I find the overuse of the word "issues" to be very unpalatable. Why must we all have them? We don't. Or perhaps I am in denial.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > A sizeable percentage of women suffer depression invariably premenstrually. I guess they all must have issues?
> >
> > You don't know me and I don't know you. I think we should entertain the possibility that there be a spectrum of constructions of depression such that we not lump us all into one basket. How damaging it must be for people to be told they have issues to work on when they really don't.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hi Scott and to Lou
>
> Scott your following quote really hits the nail on the head for me and I might assume for others as well.
>
> > You don't know me and I don't know you. I think we should entertain the possibility that there be a spectrum of constructions of depression such that we not lump us all into one basket. How damaging it must be for people to be told they have issues to work on when they really don't.
> >
>
> To Lou
>
> Lou it is obvious that you have had the ah ha moment in your life that apparently has opened the door of remission for you. But there is a tendency for people to extrapolate their experiences to all and that in my opinion is a big mistake. I think the most we can conclude from your experience is that it may be the answer for some people. I would take Scott's remarks and say at times I find your posts offensive. Please do not make conclusions about my life. We are all unique and so the answers and treatments will be. My observations lead me to the concusion that genetics play a huge role in this broad disease labeled depression.Environment is a big player for others and that would include your ideas.
>
> Please do not extrapolate your ahha moments to be the ahha moment for all of us.
>
> Also I was in therapy for many years and have a very solid undestanding about certain issues but alas no cure. I have reason to believe based on my observations of family members that genetics played a big role in their mental illness.
>
> I often wonder if this is the appropriate forum for discussions of religion and one's own religion. If it is okay for you, than that opens the door for many to begin proselytizing their religion and we probably have many religions in this forum.

bd2,
You wrote,[...there is a tendency for people to extrapolate their experiances to all and that..is a big mistake...the most we can conclude...I find your posts(redacted by respondent)...do not make...I..have a very solid understanding..but no cure...genetics...discussion of religion...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answerts to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Is there a post by me in this thread as to what experiance am I extrapolating to all, and if so, could you post the link to that post?
B. In,[...the most {we} can conclude...] who are the members in the set of {we}?
C. which posts {in this thread}, if any, did you find (redacted by respondent)
D. Is there a post by me in this thread where I discuss religion?
E. other questions if the above are answerd
Lou


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