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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pedr on September 23, 2009, at 19:42:53
Hi,
about 12 years ago I got dumped and really hurt (first love etc.). I figured that if I mentally pictured people rejecting me, it would toughen me up so that if I got dumped again, I wouldn't feel so bad. Sounds logical enough right? Well I got obsessed with doing this and quickly became very depressed. This culminated in 3 or 4 days where I just stayed in my bedroom in a pseudo catatonic state, just staring into space.To cut a long(er) story short, this period and how I dealt with it traumatized me. The feeling of being so out of control of myself, the deep feelings of depression, the inability to move or do anything. I've never been able to get over it and it plagues me to this day. I fear that every time I think a negative/irrational thought, since it will make me feel depressed, it might "take me back there". So of course, this leads me to monitor all my thoughts and to blame myself whenever I have a negative/irrational thought. And this blame... you guessed it - makes me feel depressed. And hence I have been stuck in this hellish self-fuelling rut for 12 years.
So my shrink and I agree that I am phobic of depression and of having negative/irrational thoughts. Is anyone else out there traumatized by an intense period of depression? Does anyone else blame themselves for thinking negative thoughts? Is anyone else phobic of depression?
Pete
Posted by pedr on September 25, 2009, at 9:33:02
In reply to Phobic of depression, posted by pedr on September 23, 2009, at 19:42:53
Posted by obsidian on September 25, 2009, at 19:14:42
In reply to Phobic of depression, posted by pedr on September 23, 2009, at 19:42:53
hey,
sorry you hadn't gotten a response...sounds awful :-(
kind of like an OCD mixed with depression?
...like the thing you try most not to think about is the thing that of course pops into your mind?do you feel like you somehow could have prevented it if you'd fought the negative thoughts??
there's a chicken and the egg question then?
are negative thoughts the result of depression or is depression the result of negative thoughts?...I don't think they're mutually exclusive.
...these are my random thoughts in response to your post, I don't know if it makes sense.
monitoring your thoughts like that though, is that exhausting?
-sid
Posted by pedr on September 27, 2009, at 17:47:21
In reply to Re: Phobic of depression » pedr, posted by obsidian on September 25, 2009, at 19:14:42
> hey,
>
> sorry you hadn't gotten a response...sounds awful :-(thanks sid - it hasn't been a fun time, no :/ Sorry for not replying sooner - just moved apartments and had no internet.
> kind of like an OCD mixed with depression?
> ...like the thing you try most not to think about is the thing that of course pops into your mind?exactly. I have heavy OCD aspects woven in with the depression e.g. "don't think x, don't think y" and of course, you've already thought them. I've followed ACT for a bit, which is very strong on this sort of stuff but ultimately didn't help me much e.g. http://books.google.com/books?id=q65CHYyzjzUC&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=acceptance+commitment+therapy+yellow+jeep&source=bl&ots=mYowpNhiX5&sig=ozYY1Zut7Y_FYf_5bMSlwFrIbMU&hl=en&ei=A-m_SrfXON3k8Aahw4mxAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=&f=false
>
> do you feel like you somehow could have prevented it if you'd fought the negative thoughts??The only way I could have prevented this 12 year nightmare would have been not to have tried so hard in the first place to 'toughen myself up'. That is what sowed the seed of depression and OCD. Fighting the negative thoughts is a very difficult thing for me since I tend to start fighting every thought and become hyper-vigilant and start thinking "don't think x negative thought" and ... get worse.
> there's a chicken and the egg question then?
very much. Fighting thoughts is a balancing act. Fight the wrong way and you dig a deeper hole for yourself.
> are negative thoughts the result of depression or is depression the result of negative thoughts?...
depends if the depression is endogenous or reactive I think. If it's endogenous then the depression comes first. Reactive probably starts with high levels of negative thoughts first. For me it was certainly reactive but then again both my grandfathers had depression and so I could well be predisposed too. Lucky me eh! ;)
>
> I don't think they're mutually exclusive.
> ...these are my random thoughts in response to your post, I don't know if it makes sense.
> monitoring your thoughts like that though, is that exhausting?utterly exhausting. I remember so many days of not ostensibly having done anything much but having spent so much time fighting, obsessing, blaming, hating mentally, just feeling utterly, utterly exhausted. Now that I am feeling better (and I pray it continues) I feel far less tired even though I'm doing more activities. Ask anyone with depression - it's horribly tiring with no appreciable outputs.
> -sid
Posted by Sigismund on September 28, 2009, at 0:58:56
In reply to Phobic of depression, posted by pedr on September 23, 2009, at 19:42:53
>Is anyone else phobic of depression?
It makes sense to be frightened of frightening things...
> O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed. Hold them cheap
May who neer hung there. Nor does long our small
Durance deal with that steep or deep. Here! creep,
Wretch, under a comfort serves in a whirlwind: all
Life death does end and each day dies with sleep.
Posted by Kath on September 29, 2009, at 20:28:21
In reply to Phobic of depression, posted by pedr on September 23, 2009, at 19:42:53
> I fear that every time I think a negative/irrational thought, since it will make me feel depressed, it might "take me back there". So of course, this leads me to monitor all my thoughts and to blame myself whenever I have a negative/irrational thought.
> Is anyone else out there traumatized by an intense period of depression? Does anyone else blame themselves for thinking negative thoughts? Is anyone else phobic of depression?
>
> PeteHi Pete,
I have SAD (seasonal affective disorder) so each year from late August I take 5HTP & St. John's Wort & a homeopathic remedy to ward off the depression that comes with SAD. Each year I sort of forget to begin these things by mid-August at least, so by the last week of August I quickly go down into depression. I am very fortunate in that I come out if I do the above stuff, plus use a light lamp for a few weeks. I can relate to the fear, since when I feel it beginning I get frantic & wonder how I can possibly bear to feel like I've felt before.
I usually have fear when the leaves fall off the trees & everything becomes grey & brown & I know that several months of cold, often gloomy winter are ahead of me because my worst depression was a few winters ago...the curl up in fetal position & can't get out of bed kind.As far as feeling badly for thinking negative thoughts....I am a worrier & have problems with anxiety. Basically with thinking thoughts that create uncomfortable emotions & feelings!
I believe in "The Law of Attraction" also, so since I believe that basically I create my own reality, I get pretty darned stressed when I find myself thinking negative stuff & worrying about things in the future that haven't happened....worrying that I'm causing crappy stuff to happen in the future! It's pretty stressful.
Kath
Posted by Kath on September 29, 2009, at 20:38:09
In reply to Re: Phobic of depression » obsidian, posted by pedr on September 27, 2009, at 17:47:21
Don't know what ACT is like, but I have found CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) really very helpful.
I have a book - a self-help workbook "Mind Over Mood" which teaches you to use Thought Records & write down your thoughts & pinpoint the 'hot thought'. Often if I can make myself complete a Thought Record, I can get my emotions from say:
Sad - 80% strength
Afraid - 85%
Angry - 70%
to
Sad - 30%
Afraid - 40%
Angry - 35%So it really has been quite good for me!
Here's the link to an online site where you can do a CBT course FREE. It's sponsored by I think it's the University of Scotland. It's basically the same as what's in my book!
www.livinglifetothefull.com
:-) Kath
Posted by pedr on October 1, 2009, at 9:04:07
In reply to Re: Phobic of depression » pedr, posted by Kath on September 29, 2009, at 20:28:21
> I have SAD (seasonal affective disorder) so each year from late August I take 5HTP & St. John's Wort & a homeopathic remedy to ward off the depression that comes with SAD. Each year I sort of forget to begin these things by mid-August at least, so by the last week of August I quickly go down into depression.
Yes I feel that Autumnal change too, it scares the crap out of me. The shorter nights, the change in aspect of the light, the prospect of Winter just makes me feel very down. I never managed to find anything to help, my meds never helped and the lightbox I bought didn't seem to have an effect. Hopefully now I'm on Nardil it will affect me a lot less.
> I am very fortunate in that I come out if I do the above stuff, plus use a light lamp for a few weeks. I can relate to the fear, since when I feel it beginning I get frantic & wonder how I can possibly bear to feel like I've felt before.
> I usually have fear when the leaves fall off the trees & everything becomes grey & brown & I know that several months of cold, often gloomy winter are ahead of me because my worst depression was a few winters ago...the curl up in fetal position & can't get out of bed kind.Yes, that's the sort of fear I am talking about. Sadly I fear 'going back' all the time, even when I'm doing well. The fear and obsessive checking is always there :(
> As far as feeling badly for thinking negative thoughts....I am a worrier & have problems with anxiety. Basically with thinking thoughts that create uncomfortable emotions & feelings!
>
> I believe in "The Law of Attraction" also, so since I believe that basically I create my own reality, I get pretty darned stressed when I find myself thinking negative stuff & worrying about things in the future that haven't happened....worrying that I'm causing crappy stuff to happen in the future! It's pretty stressful.Law of Attraction? don't know that. Yes, blame for thinking negative things is a beauty. I do it all day. I just can't seem to appreciate that blaming myself is a negative thing to be doing! I deem it 'worthwhile' since I believe it will motivate me to stop myself from thinking negative things. Been doing it for many years and it hasn't worked - I just can't stop it.
>
> KathPete
Posted by pedr on October 1, 2009, at 9:08:19
In reply to Have Found CBT VERY helpful in coping » pedr, posted by Kath on September 29, 2009, at 20:38:09
> Don't know what ACT is like, but I have found CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) really very helpful.
Yes, it can be helpful, I use it daily. I've had several shrinks who practice CBT and read a fair few books on it. For me it only works once I'm out of deep depression. Otherwise the depression subverts all rational and positive logic - it's just too powerful.
> I have a book - a self-help workbook "Mind Over Mood" which teaches you to use Thought Records & write down your thoughts & pinpoint the 'hot thought'. Often if I can make myself complete a Thought Record, I can get my emotions from say:
> Sad - 80% strength
> Afraid - 85%
> Angry - 70%
> to
> Sad - 30%
> Afraid - 40%
> Angry - 35%
>
> So it really has been quite good for me!Glad that it's helped! My fave book is the legendary "Feeling Good". I read it on the subway most days, certain sections for the 100th time. Very powerful stuff. Sometimes it sticks, sometimes my depression doesn't want to listen.
>
> Here's the link to an online site where you can do a CBT course FREE. It's sponsored by I think it's the University of Scotland. It's basically the same as what's in my book!
>
> www.livinglifetothefull.com
>
> :-) KathThanks for the link!
Pete
Posted by Kath on October 2, 2009, at 9:21:54
In reply to Re: Have Found CBT VERY helpful in coping » Kath, posted by pedr on October 1, 2009, at 9:08:19
For me it only works once I'm out of deep depression. Otherwise the depression subverts all rational and positive logic - it's just too powerful.
~ ~ Yes - I can relate to that...and I agree. ~ ~
> Sometimes it sticks, sometimes my depression doesn't want to listen.~ ~ yes - doesn't want to or can't. ~ ~
> Thanks for the link!
~ ~ You're welcome Pete. Once again, it's a case of being ABLE to even turn on the computer & do the course!
This book is great:
Even reading it helps me feel more positive. It's a real step-by-step method of turning our negatives into positives. A doctor told me about it & also told me that one of her patients was the VERY MOST NEGATIVE person she had EVER met!! She never saw him smile either.
He'd been trying to sell his house for quite a while & people would be interested & seem to like the house, but no takers. She told me she said to him (kindly, but I was still shocked!) that to be honest, she wouldn't want to buy his house if she came & looked at it & he was giving off negative 'vibes'. He said he Knew he was negative, but didn't know what to do about it. She told him to buy Michael Losier's Law of Attraction & read it & do the exercises. 2 weeks later, her came for his appt. He was actually smiling & pleasant, and had a buyer for his house. He was very impressed with the book & said it had changed his life & so quickly! The doctor said that at one point, she said something that was a bit negative & he corrected her & turned it around into a positive!
Sounds pretty unreal, I know, but the book is pretty cool. I think the interesting thing about it is that is actually tells you how to go about changing from negative thinking step-by-step. You can even download 'worksheets' from his website free.
Check it out. :-) Maybe your library has one, or could get one for you. Or maybe you could look at one in a bookstore & see if it seems to be a 'fit'. I like that it's in larger print, has drawings, charts - something to appeal to everyone. He says he has written it to appeal to all learning-styles.
Let me know what you think if you look at it.
xox Kath
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