Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 828305

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Talking about weight in therapy

Posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

I know I've been quiet. I read but can't seem to stay awake to write coherent replies. I guess being injured is really taking it out of me. But it is more than that.

I've been thrown by all of this and I don't know how exactly to explain it - here, in therapy or even to myself. Because I'm hurt, I can't wear my heels. This means I can't wear my usual business wardrobe - because I don't have any "business" flat shoes. I have all casual flats - ug - all this isn't that important except that without my "costume" I don't know how to be in the world. I feel exposed and confused and mostly ugly and fat. There -- I wrote it.

And I said it too, out loud, in therapy. It was excruciatingly hard - and the conversations about self-worth, appearance, self-esteem, sex, desire and attraction have been equally hard. My therapist is walking a careful line and being really gentle. I mean, what's he gonna say? "Yes, you are fat and unattractive..." he can't say that. But he can't disagree either. He said what he thinks isn't important - it is how I feel about myself and why. But he did wonder why it was so hard to talk about - he asked if I thought I'd be making him aware of things that were hidden. I sort of laughed and said, "well, I'm sitting across from you 4x a week, so I'm assuming you can see the weight gain and how I look." But the more we talked about it and the more uncomfortable it was, the more I could see he was right. I told him that I didn't want to be rejected by him for how I look - as ridiculous as that sounds. Because my feelings for him are so complicated, I'm embarrassed by much of this. I swing from, "how I look shouldn't matter, it is the person I am" to "who do I think I am to have feelings for my therapist - I bet he is horrified at the thought."

He gently asked me if I'm afraid to create desire in men. I guffawed...me? I *don't* create desire in men - I'm so careful to be neutral. I'm not a threat to women and men don't see me. He asked me if I'm afraid to feel my own desire - what happens if I feel sexy or flirty or attractive? That isn't how I see myself, at all. He talked about how some people who have a history like mine use weight as a shield - they don't want to attract any attention at all. I need to think about this.

I thought telling the abuse stories was hard. I thought talking about my feelings for my therapist was hard. I thought talking about my warped sex life with my ex-husband was hard. But nothing has been harder than this for me - talking about my weight, body, breasts (how do you feel when you show cleavage?) and what I wish I looked like.

I talked about quitting therapy last week. It is really painful and embarrassing work. And I want to feel connected to him but it is hard when I feel so flawed and ugly and well, you get it. Is this really something I can work out in therapy? I wish I was invisible.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2008, at 9:04:43

In reply to Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

> I know I've been quiet. I read but can't seem to stay awake to write coherent replies. I guess being injured is really taking it out of me. But it is more than that.

((((daisy)))) you rest up and be gentle with yourself. Let your body dictate what your mind can deal with, okay?

>
> He gently asked me if I'm afraid to create desire in men. I guffawed...me? I *don't* create desire in men - I'm so careful to be neutral. I'm not a threat to women and men don't see me. He asked me if I'm afraid to feel my own desire - what happens if I feel sexy or flirty or attractive? That isn't how I see myself, at all. He talked about how some people who have a history like mine use weight as a shield - they don't want to attract any attention at all. I need to think about this.
>

That's exactly what I was trying to express in my thread above. Well, my T wasn't exactly gentle about it. It was more one of those piercing observations and then he monitored my reaction. You know what I'm talking about? I have experimented with wearing more revealing clothing and I feel like a slu*. I wish I didn't carry this cloak of blubber around, but it is a safety belt, a costume, as you mentioned.

I have talked about weight several times in T. Once about a year ago when I was on NutriSystem and losing weight. My T was happy and he was congratulating me. then I gained it back. Then I was complaining about gaining weight, and he said "but you didn't have any problems losing it before, you seem to lose pretty easily" I told him it was hard work. Physically hard, and psychologically harder.

> Is this really something I can work out in therapy? I wish I was invisible.

try though we may, we are human, and we take up space. I think this *is* something that you can work on with your T. Hell, if I can admit to binge eating, you can talk about how you miss wearing heels. Start small. Don't bite off more than you can chew. You'll be okay. I know you will survive this too.

I was so sorry to hear of your injury. we miss you around these parts. I want you to heal so you can wear those heels (guffaw) and when you're ready, you'll join us again

hugs,
ll

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by TherapyGirl on May 10, 2008, at 10:06:02

In reply to Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

I understand about the uniform. I am currently unable to wear things with other-than-an-elastic waist for more than a couple of hours at a time due to my surgery. So I'm working from home and not at the office. If I have to go into the office, I go to the back bldg. where I only deal with people I'm closer to.

I have no answers for you about the therapy topics, Daisy, although I have had this same kind of trouble talking about my weight and general non-attractiveness even with my female T. It has gotten better over the years as *I* have gotten better able to navigate the world.

I respect you for the courage you continually show in your therapy and for being so willing to share it with us. I think you and your T are onto something here.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy

Posted by Phillipa on May 10, 2008, at 12:36:34

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on May 10, 2008, at 10:06:02

Age is my thing. I can't deal with being old. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy

Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2008, at 14:33:52

In reply to Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

I find talking about my weight and body image far more difficult than talking about sex or money or my feelings for my therapist.

Moreover, I think my therapist finds it equally difficult. He tends to try to divert the discussion, or minimize the problem. I'm not sure if this is because of the social norms involved, or if his own weight issues have anything to do with it. He'll dismiss it with vague references to medications causing my weight gain. Earlier in our relationship, he'd ask me why I don't wear makeup or dress nicer, but now he doesn't do that.

It's such an enormously layered and complex topic, and I think it deserves a layered and complex and lengthy look.

It occurs to me that this would be one of those perfect opportunities for a scheduled chat on a particular topic. It seems like a lot of us struggle with this issue. And while I don't minimize the chance of actual insight being gained in discussing it candidly and in the relative privacy of chat, at the very least, wouldn't it help desensitize us to the topic so we could more easily talk about it in therapy?

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by raisinb on May 10, 2008, at 16:32:26

In reply to Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

Weight is a very, very hard topic.

I have been having the opposite problem in the last few months. I lost a lot of weight from depression and illness. One of the things that was most upsetting to me was that people would constantly comment on it. Friends told me I needed to gain that weight back, I looked too thin. One even said it made me look older and I should eat more--these are people who would never dream of commenting on someone's weight gain (at least I think so). They don't understand that it is not that simple when your emotions work the way mine do. I was always okay with my appearance but all this stuff made me think I looked disgusting and people were secretly thinking it.

My therapist never mentioned it, but she nodded vigorously when I brought it up. I almost never talk about my appearance at all in therapy. Neither does she. It was hard.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by Racer on May 11, 2008, at 9:39:28

In reply to Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 10, 2008, at 1:16:05

I haven't had the energy to read the boards lately, but this one jumped out at me -- I wonder why, huh? I also haven't read all the replies here, but I'll try to do that later. I didn't want to lose the chance to respond.

Warning: I'm feeling a bit challenging right now, so forgive me if that's not what you want...

You and I have spent time together face to face, so I might have some insight that comes from that. As you know, I am both taller and thinner than you are -- I can say that, but I'm shaking about it: "will her feelings be hurt that I say I'm thinner? Will she think I'm calling her the 'F' word?" Guess I'm nuts, huh? Do you find that makes you uncomfortable? That I am thinner? (And I do mean that to include 'that I am thinner because of my eating disorder,' not some artificial construct to make a point.) My reaction to my own history also tends to leave me wanting attention, and often drawing attention to myself, putting out "look at me" vibes, flirting when the opportunity arises, etc. (Although I probably haven't done much of that in your company, so that might not be something I want to admit...)

Anyway, what I'm asking is whether being around me is uncomfortable for you, because of the difference in body shape/size? What do you think that might mean, whatever your answer -- does it mean that your body image shifts according to environment (which mine does in a big way); or that you can separate head from heart and just meet my mind; or something else altogether? I just somehow got this wave off the post that is probably me, but I wanted to throw that question out there -- how does it feel to be around someone who doesn't shut those things off?

Mind you, of course I feel lumpy, deformed, don't feel thin, etc. And I feel pathetic that I want attention from me -- although, that's my reaction to my history, so an equally valid form of social psychopathology...

Now, here's a little insight into how others might see you -- you were shocked when I thanked you for lending me your fashion sense, remember? You think maybe you have a little distortion going on about how you might appear to others? Yes -- you are heavier than I am. It's not only that I've got my own issue there, and I won't try to pretend. I am crazy when it comes to weight issues, which I admit to. You are not fat -- I see what used to be called "pleasingly plump," and I would bet your therapist is right about you protecting yourself from attention that way. You are a very attractive woman -- yes, physically as well as intellectually. Sorry, but it's true -- you are very attractive. I think you'd have to gain about a hundred pounds or so to lose that -- and probably be conked over the head, too.

You're absolutely right, though -- you do not put out any sort of attraction signals, which is probably the real reason you don't get more attention from men. It almost feels like you put out anti-attraction signals -- a smoke screen so that no one will approach. I think that's the reason you don't get much positive reinforcement about your looks -- meaning even things like being looked at a little too long, not necessarily being approached.

I'm terribly sorry you feel this way, my little PetalPuss -- I have a hard time believing you can't look in the mirror and see that lovely face of yours. Of course, my mirror is my enemy, so I know that it's not about what's really there.

I'm sending you affection and a "distorted body/self image" hat. You can join the club, and I'll teach you the secret handshake when you get to the clubhouse...

 

Scheduled chat! » Dinah

Posted by Racer on May 11, 2008, at 9:47:58

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Dinah on May 10, 2008, at 14:33:52

> It's such an enormously layered and complex topic, and I think it deserves a layered and complex and lengthy look.
>
> It occurs to me that this would be one of those perfect opportunities for a scheduled chat on a particular topic. It seems like a lot of us struggle with this issue. And while I don't minimize the chance of actual insight being gained in discussing it candidly and in the relative privacy of chat, at the very least, wouldn't it help desensitize us to the topic so we could more easily talk about it in therapy?

I don't know anything about how you/we set those up, but if you do, I hope you'll let me know so I can be there. When typing my reply to Daisy, I realized some of my issues with it that I hadn't really seen before -- well, I'd seen in peripheral vision, but not straight on, and I want to see if anyone can "get" it, too. Or help me clarify...

So, can we set one? For sometime this week when I can be here? I hope?

Thanks.

 

Re: Scheduled chat!

Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 11, 2008, at 12:16:08

In reply to Scheduled chat! » Dinah, posted by Racer on May 11, 2008, at 9:47:58

Can I come?

 

Anytime after Tuesday is ok with me. (nm)

Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 9:28:26

In reply to Scheduled chat! » Dinah, posted by Racer on May 11, 2008, at 9:47:58

 

Re: Wow this topic timely

Posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 11:30:14

In reply to Anytime after Tuesday is ok with me. (nm), posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 9:28:26

I think so many of us suffer this in silence. I have no really had much of a weight problem until I took AD's and many now that i am approaching menopause. For me, it was an always has been a lack of confidence, self esteem, whatever you want to call it. It was not tied to my looks because my family made damn sure of that. My mother used hers according to her family to get what she wanted and they made sure her daughters did not. So we grew up not thinking we looked one way or the other. I could not flirt because i was afraid of being like my mother. And I watched her from way too young. One lover after another. She took her when she went out of town with them. Did my father know hell if I know. So my own self of self is so wacked I think nothing about myself . And now I think I am a waste of nothingness and it is getting worse. Do I share this with sleepy man (T) hell no.

And now I feel fat to boot. Hell of a place to be in. So let me know when the chat is too. Not that I think I can be saved as this point but it would be nice to chat with everyone I think. I will try not be a downer.

rsk

 

Well, how about I put a date out there

Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 11:49:48

In reply to Scheduled chat! » Dinah, posted by Racer on May 11, 2008, at 9:47:58

Because I'm sure that will stimulate discussion of what time/date would be better. :)

So how about a proposed date of this Wednesday at 6 central.

Then we can adjust to time schedules as needed. I'm very very flexible.

Dinah

 

Whoops, sorry Daisy.

Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 11:50:29

In reply to Well, how about I put a date out there, posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 11:49:48

I can move to a new thread for all this.

 

Re: so sorry my post is rambly, I am rambly today (nm)

Posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 12:32:29

In reply to Re: Wow this topic timely, posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 11:30:14

 

Not rambly :) Complex topic » rskontos

Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 12:35:31

In reply to Re: so sorry my post is rambly, I am rambly today (nm), posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 12:32:29

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20080508/msgs/828677.html

I started a new thread for the arranging of chat.

 

Re: Wow this topic timely

Posted by ClearSkies on May 12, 2008, at 14:54:28

In reply to Re: Wow this topic timely, posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 11:30:14

I have been wanting to post to this thread and have tried to write many times, only to change my mind at the last minute and not do it.

Big subject for me.

I am feeling very invisible these days. I can't even see my own reflection in the mirror except for specific parts of my body - the entirety of me just hasn't been there for a long time now - years, perhaps. Photos taken of me in recent years I find just appalling, except for the occasional head shot. But that body is not one I know, nor is it one that I love. I can't even talk of it as my own.

I brought it up, briefly, in therapy on Friday. T was visibly disturbed by the upset in my voice. I am seeing her again this week - usually I would be seeing every other week but am feeling fragile at the moment because of stressed boundaries with DH and his family.

This invisibility seems to be part of the depression that I've been laboring under these last few years.

If I can I will try to be there for chat. I don't know yet.
CS

 

Re: Wow this topic timely » ClearSkies

Posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 15:01:48

In reply to Re: Wow this topic timely, posted by ClearSkies on May 12, 2008, at 14:54:28

CS, sigh, I know how you feel sweetie, I too like to just ignore the mirror. It would seem to be an enemy now. :(

I am so sorry you feel that way too. For all of us:(

You know that invisibility cloak Harry Potter had in the series I sure would like to have one.

rsk

 

Re: Wow this topic timely » rskontos

Posted by ClearSkies on May 12, 2008, at 16:58:46

In reply to Re: Wow this topic timely » ClearSkies, posted by rskontos on May 12, 2008, at 15:01:48


> You know that invisibility cloak Harry Potter had in the series I sure would like to have one.
>
> rsk

That's the thing - I feel that I have been wearing one for a long time now. I feel without any image or reflection at all on my worst days. No, I take that back - on my worst days, I hate what I see. On the better days, I just don't see anything. I am invisible. Even my cat's devotion to me seems shallow. Which, er, it most definitely is!
CS

 

Re: Wow this topic timely » ClearSkies

Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 12, 2008, at 17:42:00

In reply to Re: Wow this topic timely » rskontos, posted by ClearSkies on May 12, 2008, at 16:58:46

your cat's devotion may be shallow, but mine isn't.

T and I have talked about body image, attractiveness, etc. It is very hard to hear him say nice things to me, and especially about my body, when I am feeling insecure (which is always). I feel like he is so fit and I am so flab. When i start complaining about meds he recommends exercise as a natural AD. he's not smug about it, but still...

An interesting study showed that women were more likely to dress provocatively around the time of ovulation. Might be interesting to chart this...

So many layers of biology and culture. Attractiveness etc.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » LlurpsieNoodle

Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:20:42

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on May 10, 2008, at 9:04:43

It is good to hear that it *is* possible to talk about all of this during sessions. Today I spent a lot of time on it but the previous two sessions I did a "drive by" - mentioned it at the end of the session, talked for about 5 minute and fled.

My therapist has never complimented me on my looks - even as we talk about attractiveness now. I'm not sure how I'd take it. It makes me wonder if a client really is attractive if it is more OK to say? I don't know, I'm so sensitive right now.

The gaining and losing and gaining again cycle stinks. And yes, we all know we should exercise. Do you make faces at him for that? I would.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » TherapyGirl

Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:25:10

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on May 10, 2008, at 10:06:02

I hope you heal from your surgery quickly. It sounds a lot worse than what I'm dealing with.

But being hurt has opened up this really old wound and I'm shocked an the enormous tidal wave of emotions I'm feeling. High school magnified 10xs.

I don't think this is a male/female difficult thing. It just is one of those things that you never want to say out loud for so many reasons, including, "what if I'm right and I really am repulsive?"

My therapist said today, "all this time and you've kept so much of this hidden" - he sounds a little confused and shocked at how upset I am and why. But we are trying to dump it all out and then sort through it. What a pile of junk this is!

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Phillipa

Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:26:11

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Phillipa on May 10, 2008, at 12:36:34

Age isn't easy either - but I think the difference is the judgement part. People don't judge you for aging, but they sure do for weight.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 12, 2008, at 20:26:17

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:20:42

> It is good to hear that it *is* possible to talk about all of this during sessions. Today I spent a lot of time on it but the previous two sessions I did a "drive by" - mentioned it at the end of the session, talked for about 5 minute and fled.

Well, it's important to get an appetizer before you commit to a whole discussion. Don't be so hard on yourself!

>
> My therapist has never complimented me on my looks - even as we talk about attractiveness now. I'm not sure how I'd take it. It makes me wonder if a client really is attractive if it is more OK to say? I don't know, I'm so sensitive right now.
>

I remember my 2nd session with currenT well. We were going over a list of my maladies and I said I had low self-esteem and poor body image and he looked at me and said "you don't think you're pretty?" OMG. I just about died. How the hell is one supposed to answer that question? Um, you brand-newT, I DON'T think I'm pretty. thank you for making this very very awkward.

> The gaining and losing and gaining again cycle stinks. And yes, we all know we should exercise. Do you make faces at him for that? I would.
>

oh HELL yes! I even groan. I tell him it's really easy to exercise when one isn't depressed.

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy

Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:29:43

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Dinah on May 10, 2008, at 14:33:52

I hope we can find a time when most of us can be there. A chat would be great.

I would imagine that if one's therapist was over or under-weight, it would be touchy to bring up. My therapist is relatively fit so it didn't occur to me to think about if he was sensitive to the subject - how self involved is that?

The layers keep growing too - we talked about flirting today. I feels so inept. You know how there is CBT and DBT? Maybe we need FBT - Flirting behavior therapy...

 

Re: Talking about weight in therapy » Daisym

Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2008, at 21:20:05

In reply to Re: Talking about weight in therapy, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2008, at 20:29:43

:)

I don't think I'd be able to flirt at all. That'd be up there with acting, or doing voices. :)

My therapist has more or less said I dress in a less than attractive way, and that I'm overweight. Or at least he's said I shouldn't be hard on myself about my weight, because it was caused by medications.

But he also often expresses surprised compliments when I bring in pictures of me at different ages. Young adult me got "handsome", older teenage me got "va va voom", and little girl me got "just like a young Meg Ryan". Sigh. Like when my friend's wife saw a picture of me when I was younger and said "Hey, you used to be pretty!!!"

And that was *before* I gained weight.

Appearance issues, me? How could this be?


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