Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 827491

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Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't.

Posted by Annierose on May 7, 2008, at 17:43:02

In reply to I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't., posted by Dinah on May 6, 2008, at 12:00:46

I am late to this thread.

Try not to get ahead of yourself. Maybe you can ask him, without getting personal, if he thinks this is a temporary situation or one more likely to last a long time.

I know the difference you are describing. We all have days when we are not "present" in our own therapy sessions ... let alone our therapists.

Thinking of you.

 

Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't. Dinah

Posted by TherapyGirl on May 7, 2008, at 20:25:30

In reply to I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't., posted by Dinah on May 6, 2008, at 12:00:46

I'm so sorry. And I get it, I really do. But I also remember several posts from you about fighting to relationship. So maybe you could at least discuss this with him a little more before making a decision?

((((((((Dinah))))))))

 

Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't Annierose

Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:30:46

In reply to Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't., posted by Annierose on May 7, 2008, at 17:43:02

My memories are getting hazy, but I did ask that and his reply indicated it wasn't short term.

I've got a plan to clarify things on Friday. Sort of a mental decision tree. Of course, I need his responses to fit into one of my anticipated paths.

I don't think I'd ever leave the relationship, and won't even take a break unless I think it's a wise choice.

 

Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't TherapyGirl

Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:35:40

In reply to Re: I can't do it again. I just can't. And I won't. Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on May 7, 2008, at 20:25:30

I'll talk to him about it on Friday, and maybe even longer, although I'd rather just get it over with and not draw it out.

I think my ultimate goal is to preserve the relationship, not destroy it. At least on my end.

As it's gotten blurrier in my mind, I begin to have more hope that I imagined it all. It was such a surprise to me. I thought I'd just need to remind him to bring himself back to the room, and he would, and that would be the end of it.

 

Thanks :) (nm) rskontos

Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:37:10

In reply to Re: I guess I'm panicking Dinah, posted by rskontos on May 7, 2008, at 13:53:05

 

Re: (((Dinah))) muffled

Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:39:14

In reply to (((Dinah))), posted by muffled on May 7, 2008, at 15:21:04

Yeah. He's become part of my life.

Yet I've gotten much better at not calling him between sessions. At not requiring him to help me modulate my moods. I may be turning to risperdal instead, but it turns out ok. I always called Risperdal "therapist in a bottle".

 

Re: (((Dinah))) Dinah

Posted by backseatdriver on May 8, 2008, at 9:22:01

In reply to Re: (((Dinah))) muffled, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:39:14

I adore the phrase "therapist in a bottle". So much better than my T's line, which is "the pill is a co-therapist." No way! The pill is the GENIE that comes out of the bottle, even when T does not show up in the room for therapy.

I would tell my T this, but he would be SOOO insulted...

 

I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:22:27

In reply to Re: (((Dinah))) muffled, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2008, at 22:39:14

Summary.

1) He's sorry he ever said anything. Stupid thing to be sorry about. I was already distraught because I knew he wasn't present. He should be sorry he wasn't able to be present and upset me. It wouldn't have made me less upset if he just folded his arms and refused to say anything, or if he'd have said everything was ok when I already knew it wasn't (in terms of my therapy not of his life). So he must mean he's sorry that he told me anything because now I'm upsetting him.

2) He says I'm not overreacting.

3) He doesn't know if he's able to be present. He hopes so and he's been trying, but it's up to me to say if he's succeeding and he hopes I give him feedback on that.

4) The issue may cause him to be unavailable to be my therapist long term. He can't quantify the chances.

5) He'd like to talk about this in person rather than on the phone, and doesn't want me to cancel all future sessions. But he's not actually going to say anything different in person. But he thinks that it's best (not) discussed in person. He doesn't have any openings today so he'll see me tomorrow.

6) He understands that I'm angry and he's sorry that I'm angry. I understand that he's got enough to deal with, and doesn't need me in addition, and I'm sorry to add to his distress.

That's it, folks. His big answer was that he should have been uncommunicative as to his being closed off and lacking in presence, even though it is a long term thing.

I'm full of Risperdal, and will continue to be for a while, I think.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:27:16

In reply to I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:22:27

Oh, and when I cancelled all future sessions, he said with all due outrage "You're kidding?!!!"

This despite the fact that he referred to everything all call as what a therapist should say to a client, what other therapists would say to clients, etc.

If he's going to pull our relationship to make me feel guilty about quitting, he can't simultaneously make our relationship out to be generic.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:36:24

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:27:16

Oh, and to be absolutely clear, I pointed out that I wasn't asking anything at all about him, except as it pertained to my therapy. And I thought I had a right to ask about my therapy.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by Nadezda on May 8, 2008, at 13:05:59

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:36:24

That's just awful, Dinah.

I really feel for you-- I hate to think what it must feel like to lose someone so significant, so abruptly, and in this way---

If you need a break from therapy, either until you're ready to discuss the issue further (maybe you'll want to, after the immediate shock wears off) or until he's able to be present, and the long-term threat is resolved-- I completely would support that. Whatever you need, whatever will help most-- is what you must do.

Maybe there's some good to going in for to discuss it in person-- but if he's said all he's going to say-- I'm not sure it seems obvious what.

I absolutely wish that this works out as you need it to-- and as quickly as possible. Otherwise, he's put you into such a difficult and painful position-- you don't deserve that, and it's so unfair.

many hugs,

Nadezda

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah

Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 8, 2008, at 13:08:24

In reply to I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:22:27

How devastating, Dinah,
I can't help but be curious about what the big thing in his life is, and how it could be affecting the relationship to such a deep degree. I think you have every right to be curious too.

I hope you decide to see him in person. He may let you "in" for just a moment to see his pain, and that might make it more real for you.

until then, risperdal-away. You once said it was your therapy-in-a-bottle.

Well, sending you some virtual zyprexa zydis. that stuff with tranquilize an elephant.

-Ll

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah

Posted by Racer on May 8, 2008, at 13:24:20

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:36:24

> Oh, and to be absolutely clear, I pointed out that I wasn't asking anything at all about him, except as it pertained to my therapy. And I thought I had a right to ask about my therapy.

Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm so completely out to lunch I don't know anything at all -- but I think it's your right to ask about your therapy...

Not, you understand, that that means much...

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request llurpsienoodle

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 19:45:08

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 8, 2008, at 13:08:24

Risperdal is more consistent than he is, that's for sure.

I'm really not that curious. Apart from all else, the range of possibilities isn't huge. And his word choice and the fact that it might mean termination for me down the line narrow those possibilities even more. I of course feel very sorry for his distress. But I don't need to know the particulars if he doesn't wish to share them.

I'm more irritated by his heavy handed mysteriousness. Every parent, and I'm assuming every therapist, should know that there is a simple formula wherein you can tell as little as you wish and still reassure a child or client.

"Therapist is upset/distracted/sad/whatever {because of *one sentence explanation* is purely optional}, but the important thing is that while I may not be my best over the next (insert realistic time frame), I care about you and I'm still your therapist and I will continue to be your therapist. We'll get through this together."

Or, if he doesn't think he will continue to be my therapist, a reassuring as possible brief explanation. "There is a remote/slight/moderate/fair/good chance that this will affect my ability to be your therapist for the long term (insert realistic time frame as best as possible). But if that happens, you will be ok because we'll make provisions for you. (Insert possible or expected provisions)."

Because when a child/client asks "What's wrong?" they're not looking for a expose as much as they're asking "what will happen to meeee?"

And that can be competently and professionally answered without much personal disclosure at all. Maybe none, unless they're going in for surgery or something else equally visible.

Why the heck doesn't he know this? Especially since I told him.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Nadezda

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 19:51:38

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Nadezda on May 8, 2008, at 13:05:59

I don't think he gets it at all. That this is difficult for me, or unfair of him.

I'm particularly angry that his reaction mostly consisted of being sorry he told me anything. He surely knows me well enough to know that he doesn't need to say a thing for me to know something's wrong. If he hadn't put up the wall, surely he realized that I'd be able to tell he was upset. And since he did put up the wall, didn't he realize I could see it? And yet his reaction is that the problem was caused by his saying something? Snort. It might have been caused by the way he said it. But there would have been a problem no matter what. Either he's not thinking of it from my point of view, or he doesn't care about my point of view. Because what he really means is "I'm sorry I said anything because this is more annoying to me than if you were upset and didn't know what was going on."

I think he may be wrong about that. I can be equally annoying when he's not totally there, no matter what the reason.

I hope I have the courage to do what I think is best for me. My experience with myself is that I get scared and break down and can't bear the thought of losing him.

I'm a coward.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Racer

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 19:54:24

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah, posted by Racer on May 8, 2008, at 13:24:20

Well, he's annoyed with me. Does that count as being emotionally present? I'm not sure. If it was anger, I'd know he was really present. Annoyance it could go either way. And I can't feel him over the phone.

I'm so impatient for tomorrow so I can get on with my life one way or the other. You know how bad I am with change.

I'll probably fold, and beg him to forgive me. :(

Even if it is reasonable for me to want to know what to expect in my own therapy.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Racer

Posted by raisinb on May 8, 2008, at 20:00:10

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah, posted by Racer on May 8, 2008, at 13:24:20

Dinah, this sucks :( I don't have any insight (I wish I did, since I am dealing with the same issue with my T), but I'm glad he is at least being honest with you and trying to work it out with you.

I hope you can take care of yourself until you can see this through. Keep taking those pills! :) ((Dinah))

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by backseatdriver on May 8, 2008, at 20:10:14

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Racer, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 19:54:24

Oh, Dinah. I read your account of your call and I felt: He is so, so frightened.

My gut says, this is *all* him -- he is having trouble managing his countertransference. He can't see YOU through it. Can't see your suffering. Can't feel it. Failure of empathy, and also of positionality. He should be *right there beside you*, looking *with you* at the circumstances of your life, helping you to make meaning from everything you bring into the room.

Instead, he is pushing you away, and blaming you for a problem that is really his. I can't believe he told you he was sorry he mentioned it. I mean, I'm livid! That is outrageous. Totally passive aggressive. He SHOULD be sorry, truly sorry, for causing you this grief.

If I were a gambler, I would bet that he's going through a big abandonment of his own. He's recently married, no? My guess is his marriage has gone off the rails.

Whatever the problem is, though, it should not be *your* problem. Though it seems he is doing his utmost to make it a problem for you.

BTW, I really admire your strength in how you're handling this guy. So well done -- you are being careful, you are holding to what is good, but also holding your ground. I hope to be able to do this, too, someday. <smile>

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request raisinb

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 20:44:43

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Racer, posted by raisinb on May 8, 2008, at 20:00:10

Yep. Maximum doseage. I'm inclined to skip tomorrow morning so I can feel in session. But feeling may be overrated.

I don't know... If I wasn't so upset about last time, I might not be so upset this time. I don't know what's best to do.

He is being honest, and he is trying.

Or maybe that's the Risperdal talking.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah

Posted by TherapyGirl on May 8, 2008, at 20:46:41

In reply to I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:22:27

God, Dinah, I hate this like h*ll for you.

((((((((Dinah))))))))))

I hope he is able to do something tomorrow to, I don't know what. I was going to say fix this, but maybe he thinks he can't fix it. I think you might need more information, even though I know you don't want to know stuff about his personal life. But I think it's possible whatever your brain is filling in the blanks with is worse. Maybe not. I'm just really, really sorry.

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request backseatdriver

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 20:51:24

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request, posted by backseatdriver on May 8, 2008, at 20:10:14

I wish I was strong. I'm not really.

We've been together for a long time and he means a lot to me. And he's trying as best he knows how to be a good therapist to me.

It's not his fault that it's not his brilliant insights that help me. He lends me stability and ego strength. And how can he do that if he's unable to be there?

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request TherapyGirl

Posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 20:54:03

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on May 8, 2008, at 20:46:41

I hope he manages to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

But if he can't, I hope I can maintain my clarity on what is best for me.

((((Therapist))))

 

Re: I called, he returned call at my request

Posted by muffled on May 8, 2008, at 21:17:30

In reply to I called, he returned call at my request, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 12:22:27

Sigh....keep us posted...
Sorry this is happening :-(
TC
M

 

Good luck Dinah. I'm thinking about you today. (nm) Dinah

Posted by seldomseen on May 9, 2008, at 7:07:43

In reply to Re: I called, he returned call at my request TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on May 8, 2008, at 20:54:03

 

Re: Good luck Dinah. I'm thinking about you today seldomseen

Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2008, at 16:46:07

In reply to Good luck Dinah. I'm thinking about you today. (nm) Dinah, posted by seldomseen on May 9, 2008, at 7:07:43

Thanks, seldomseen. I'll start a new thread to talk about it, since it was at least better than what preceded it.


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