Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 815878

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.



Posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

I'm mad at my therapist. No - I'm furious with him. I want to march in tomorrow and say, "all this work we are doing?- total cr*p! Our relationship? More cr*p! No matter what we talk about or how much I want to feel differently, I don't think I ever will. So let's just quit now."

I'm upset enough that I will probably say something close to this. Although, I'm not good at sarcasm in person, I tend to be very polite.

The kicker is that I *know* I'm really angry and devastated by my mother - not my therapist. We had dinner this weekend and I sort of told her how "inappropriate" my dad has been the past year and half - I said something like "since I've left my husband he acts like how sort of owns me again" - her response was, "that makes me think of what your sister said he did and I wonder if it was true." (Imagine me holding my breath and wondering how to respond.) I said, "Think about that for a minute. Would you want to know any more? At this point - what would you do with it?" She said, "I guess I've chosen to believe it isn't true - she isn't reliable - and what would I do now - report him to the police? No. So it is best left alone." End of discussion.

Not the end of the bad dreams. Not the end of my tears. But end of discussion.

I guess I didn't really realize that I've been hanging on to this fantasy of telling her - and of her being horrified for me - complete with curses and vows of revenge on the man who did all this to her child - I should know better. REALLY. My mom is a good person, amazing, super successful and all that. Just not a mother-bear type. Her kids were brought up to be super independent and as an over-achiever, I'm really great at being independent. And now therapy has made me not want to be so independent and alone.

So I'm mad at therapy. And at my therapist. It's all cr*p.


Re: MAD MAD MAD! Daisym

Posted by earthmama on March 3, 2008, at 6:38:04

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

Oh, wow, Daisy. What a tough situation.

Before therapy, I never got angry. Now I'm learning to get angry at things that are probably appropriate, but it's all directed at my T and the therapy process. He is absolutely, 100% fine with that, he helps me work through it, and it is always, always a moment of growth.

You have an awesome T. He can handle your anger, and he can help you.

I'm so sorry you had that experience with your mom. It hurts so much when we imagine that even now, they might be able to apologize, hear us, take responsibility for their part...and then we realize that that can't happen. It just hurts.

Tell your T WHATEVER you need to tell him. He can handle it.


Re: MAD MAD MAD! Daisym

Posted by TherapyGirl on March 3, 2008, at 6:39:43

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

I'm so sorry, Daisy. I wish your mother could have a Mother Bear moment for you.

I understand your frustration. All this feeling of feelings gets old, doesn't it, and sometimes it seems that things were better when we were all numb and unaware of every little tiny feeling. I wish I could make it better for you.


Re: MAD MAD MAD! Daisym

Posted by rskontos on March 3, 2008, at 9:11:27

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

Daisym, I am so sorry for the way your mother negated your feelings and did not act like a mother. I would have gone and tried to kill my hus if I found out from my daughter this information. But some mothers are not as good as alley cats, they make better mothers. So she chose to pretend it did n't happen. Wow. What a ....well I can't say that. But you...I am so sorry. I would be your mom for you and be devastated for what happened to you. I would go to that sorry excuse of a husband and try to hurt him. To call him out for his behavior.

Go in to your T and tell him what happened and let him help you process this. He will help you put it where it needs to be. Behind you. We can not unfortunaely make people behave the way we want them to but we can learn not to need that. I hope you let him help you with this. And dump your anger on him, he can deal with it, I am sure of that.




Greetings from my cave Daisym

Posted by Racer on March 3, 2008, at 9:38:37

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

I haven't read your other responses, I'm sure they're good. I hope mine is good, and I think it is. And I hope I'm not repeating anything.

Anyway, as I read your mother's comments, you know what I "heard" in them? I heard her asking you not to tell her. I heard the pain and the fear of a woman who doesn't want to have to face that YOU were the victim of the man she married.

I think she was trying to prevent you from telling her, and that she's told you that she has been able to disbelieve it because your sister is not reliable.

For whatever reason, you have chosen to protect her from your history -- which is probably self-protective. Maybe you could discuss this part of it -- *why* you didn't tell you mother this weekend -- at your next session, and see if that helps dissipate your anger enough to work on the pain behind it?

Back to my cave now, but much love to you...


Re: Greetings from my cave

Posted by annierose on March 3, 2008, at 10:56:55

In reply to Greetings from my cave Daisym, posted by Racer on March 3, 2008, at 9:38:37

Daisy -

It's so hard to think of the words to use, since they all feel so empty. You deserve more. You deserve better.

My first thought was similar to Racers. But I don't know your mother and don't have much of a sense of the type of person she was and is.

It did sound like she does "know" on some level but can easily dismiss it in her mind because your sister isn't reliable. But maybe I hear the opposite too. Maybe she is also asking, "Did it happen to you too? Because then I would believe it to be true." I don't know. No one knows really but your mother. And you have a better sense of her beliefs more than anyone.

You posed an interesting and PERFECT question. I admire that so much. Here this delicate situation comes up and you have the resolve to ask her in effect, "Do you really want to know?"

And her answer is so darn sad and "unmotherly", "NO". She wishes beyond hope that if she can pretend everything was alright than it is okay. And it's not.

It's okay to be angry with your mother. And it's okay to be angry with your t too. Maybe you are practicing what being angry and talking about it feels like.

I wished you called me and shouted and yelled and screamed and cried. I still would not have found the right words to make it all go away, but I can listen and be angry and sad with you.

We both are in long term psychodynamic therapies for a reason. We need to learn to trust the relationship and receive the caring, nurturing, protective feelings they willingly give to us.

Love, me



Posted by pegasus on March 3, 2008, at 12:24:11

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

Daisy, I wish so much that you had gotten what you needed from your mom. It is heartbreaking that she responded the way she did.

I also want to tell you how the interaction sounded to me in the flatness of reading it from a post, and not hearing it, or knowing you or your mother personally. My first interpretation was that your mom might have thought you were suggesting to her not to pursue it any further. Maybe, just maybe, and what do I know (nothing) . . . she was testing the waters about asking you whether you knew anything more about what your sister said. And your response *could have*, coming from some people, in the context of some relationships, sounded like you were warning her away. If she's the type of person that tries to guess what other people want her to do, she might have guessed that your response meant "no, don't ask me", or even that you thought she shouldn't want to know. And so, she let you know she wouldn't ask.

Which still sucks. I mean, she shouldn't care what anyone else thinks if there's a chance her daughter was abused. Obviously her daughter needs her!

Is it at all possible to bring it up again with your mom? Maybe you could point out that there might be things - besides reporting her husband to the police - that she could do that might help her daughter. You could point out that your sister is surely dealing with a lot and could benefit from her mother's support (whether it's true or not, but especially if it is). And maybe ask her if she'd want to provide support if it was true. I mean, I'm just thinking that perhaps her denial is so profound that she hasn't even thought of that angle yet, or is looking for permission from you (for whatever reason) about going there. Of course, how much more painful if you become that direct with her, and she says that she can't support your sister, even if it is true. So, it's always a big risk, and I wish I could somehow lift the whole tangled mess from your shoulders.

I hope this suggestion doesn't bring up more pain for you. If it does, I sincerely and profusely apologize. My intention is not to suggest that you should have responded differently. I think you were amazing. I just wanted to let you know that the dialog read a little differently to me, on first glance.

No doubt the world would be a better place if your mom could have decided on her own to support her daughters no matter what.



Check box 'all of the above'

Posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 14:23:44

In reply to Re: MAD MAD MAD!, posted by pegasus on March 3, 2008, at 12:24:11

I think we all learned early on to collude with one another. I think you all have it right - I was testing the waters, asking, "do you really want to know?" and she was saying, "do I?" And Peg, you are also so right - I was saying, "you don't really want to know" and she was saying, "OK, I don't." It is all so complicated. And we talk about my sister like we aren't talking about me. It is easier to dismiss the black sheep of the family, isn't it?

I'm in total agreement about being numb, TG. It was easier when I didn't, couldn't, wouldn't, feel. I want to get back to that place.

I hear my therapist saying, "but can you?" @#$&*! NO - but I can try!


Re: Check box 'all of the above' Daisym

Posted by rskontos on March 3, 2008, at 15:56:45

In reply to Check box 'all of the above', posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 14:23:44

Daisym, I am sorry I guess I read it wrong. I took it literally. I realized that your dad was abusive to you and your sister. I realized that mom was in denial about both I guess I did not pick up on that mom still doesn't know about you. I guess for me having children I just don't get how she could not. Maybe it is because I was abused I am hyper-sensitive and always suspected everyone. I even checked on my DH to make sure. I needed that protection even though he never did anything to make me not trust him. So again, I think how the H*ll could she not know. I think on some level she knows and just wants to stick her head in the sand and make it go away.

I think you can try but it sure it hard. I can see your T's point and I know it sure ain't easy to do what he wants you to do. So be mad at everyone that let you down. You are entitled.

I wish too I could make it go away.




Posted by Fallsfall on March 4, 2008, at 8:16:36

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

I said, "Think about that for a minute. Would you want to know any more? At this point - what would you do with it?" She said, "I guess I've chosen to believe it isn't true - she isn't reliable - and what would I do now - report him to the police? No. So it is best left alone." End of discussion.

I agree with Pegasus. You gave her permission to discount it. And it is possible that she doesn't know that it would be healing for you for her to be outraged - or even just to know. I think that this exchange was a turning point. She brought up your sister - clearly she hasn't forgotten about the accusations. But she doesn't know what to do about it - as a goal oriented person that is a scary way to feel. I think that if she knew that there was something she could do that would help, then she might very well do it.

How healing would it be for you for her to just say "Oh, my God. I didn't know. I'm so sorry I didn't know."

I think it is very positive that the subject surfaced again with her. I think this is progress.

In the meantime, yell and scream at your therapist. He'll understand and it will help you!


Re: MAD MAD MAD! Fallsfall

Posted by DAisym on March 4, 2008, at 19:50:03

In reply to Re: MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Fallsfall on March 4, 2008, at 8:16:36

I NEVER yell and scream - you know that. :) I do find I want to pace around. My therapist said, "go ahead, just stay away from the windows."

I think he'd love it if I'd yell. He did tell me I was getting the ranting thing down pretty well.

And yes, we agree - I was testing the waters and warning her off at the same time. And I'm mad at him because therapy sets up expectations that everyone wants to listen to you and that the truth is important. Your truth, from deep inside you.

I feel like I'm caught in a double-bind right now. He says, "it must be really scary to be mad at your mother - risking the relationship - it could be a big loss for you if she responds badly if you tell her. I can see why you want to focus on being mad at me." And I think to myself, "it is the same with you, here." I risk the therapy relationship by transfering my anger onto him and that would not be an easier loss. So what is a girl to do?

The voice that says, "stop talking, stop telling, stop feeling," gets louder and louder.

Even if she says she didn't know, I'm not sure that would be healing. Because then I'm left with, "wasn't I important enough for you to notice?" She can't win.

Neither can I right now.


Re: Restorative Justice!! MAD MAD MAD!

Posted by sassyfrancesca on March 5, 2008, at 13:31:44

In reply to MAD MAD MAD!, posted by Daisym on March 3, 2008, at 1:01:28

Oh, sweetie: There is a way to "win." I believe in "restorative justice"---This is what you did, this is how it made me feel.

How horrific that any parent can ignore/deny incest (at least that is what I think you are referring to with your sister and you?)

It is easier to ignore and deny it, than do what a parent is supposed to do.....First rule of parenting: PROTECT your children.

I can never be quiet when there is injustice (as in your situation); what would you like to happen, if you could make it happen?

For me (abused as a child, emotionally, physically and sexually [while asleep] and "mother" had left me alone at night...and then abused as an adult in 31 years of "marriage" and then abused by a church (who voted me out of membership because I got a divorce).....the term:

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE --are the most powerful, important words on the planet. As a child I couldn't speak up. As an adult I have a voice, and I use it!

For that child....who had no voice.

I hope you will find your voice....perhaps write a letter to your mother (and father...)

Secrets destroy families.

Hugs n love, Francesca


Re: P.S. Restorative Justice!! MAD MAD MAD!

Posted by sassyfrancesca on March 5, 2008, at 13:40:06

In reply to Re: Restorative Justice!! MAD MAD MAD!, posted by sassyfrancesca on March 5, 2008, at 13:31:44

One more thing....People do what they need stay out of pain.

If your mother were to admit she knew or suspected, then that would make her a bad...person (in her mind); no one wants to think of themselves that way.

She would then have to process her shame and guilt,'s easier to "pretend"

How tragic, but you DO have a voice as an adult. What is it you would like to see happen?

Does your mother know you are seeing a t?

Hugs, Francesca

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