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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 8:25:39
dats rite
POOPY
POOPY POOPY POOPY
so der
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 9:44:23
In reply to ferapists dat emfantalises dems patients is POOPY, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 8:25:39
I think it may be a matter of perspective that varies, even in the therapeutic community. What one therapist sees as infantalizing, another may see as nurturing. And a client's response and how it affects them might be quite different too.
I think therapists should act with forethought and with regard to professional rules. I think they should constantly be aware of how their actions can affect their clients, and how their individual client is in fact reacting.
It's hard to judge those things long distance. I know I have said things here, and revealed things here, that would be greatly at odds with how I present myself in my real life. I've expressed vulnerability and dependence that would have, at one time, surprised even my therapist. It's easy, in a forum that is seen as supportive and nurturing itself, to allow the most vulnerable parts of us to show. And we're also seeing snapshots, not the relationship in its entirety.
I guess my position is one of someone who went through it and is on my way out. It worked out fine in my case, and has been much to my advantage. I realize it isn't always so. But I realize that at some point in my posting I would have at least been seen as infantalizing myself in therapy, even if my therapist wasn't seen as infantalizing me. It did work out ok. I did learn and grow, will I or nill I.
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:09:52
In reply to therapists » zazenducke, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 9:44:23
Dinah dear everything I post isn't directed at you!
How can one be a "child" in therapy and discuss adult issues without introducing an element of exploitation? And resigning from the reality of what one is-what a price to pay-to always live a lie-to live a small life- small enough to fit in a therapist's office. Because one can't be a child again if one is an adult. A damaged adult is not a child any more than a fetishist who pays someone to dress him in diapers is a baby.
DONT TAZE ME DOC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I changed all yous to ones to avoid misunderstanding. Although I am not being specific I also am not overgeneralizing. I specify that "one" does not mean EVERYONE just the ones to whom the one applies and who would not be offended if they recognized themselves there.
> I think it may be a matter of perspective that varies, even in the therapeutic community. What one therapist sees as infantalizing, another may see as nurturing. And a client's response and how it affects them might be quite different too.
>
> I think therapists should act with forethought and with regard to professional rules. I think they should constantly be aware of how their actions can affect their clients, and how their individual client is in fact reacting.
>
> It's hard to judge those things long distance. I know I have said things here, and revealed things here, that would be greatly at odds with how I present myself in my real life. I've expressed vulnerability and dependence that would have, at one time, surprised even my therapist. It's easy, in a forum that is seen as supportive and nurturing itself, to allow the most vulnerable parts of us to show. And we're also seeing snapshots, not the relationship in its entirety.
>
> I guess my position is one of someone who went through it and is on my way out. It worked out fine in my case, and has been much to my advantage. I realize it isn't always so. But I realize that at some point in my posting I would have at least been seen as infantalizing myself in therapy, even if my therapist wasn't seen as infantalizing me. It did work out ok. I did learn and grow, will I or nill I.
Posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 10:18:36
In reply to ferapist daddies and emotional incest » Dinah, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:09:52
I truly believe that this is one of those things that if you haven't been through it -- felt it, lived it -- you just can't understand. I'm tempted to write a long response - to point out my scholarly credentials and immense responsibilities at work -- all those things that crown a person as "sane" -- "mature" -- "independent."
But nothing I can say can explain the experience. I'd just encourage Every - one - to keep an open mind.
And I'll encourage you to be very careful with the incest word. You could do some serious damage with subject lines like that.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 10:28:50
In reply to ferapist daddies and emotional incest » Dinah, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:09:52
I didn't think your post was directed at me at all. I used myself as an example because I'm pretty sure that I won't offend myself by doing so.
I think that many people here have referred to their child selves and their therapists. It's their experiences and I respect that. I understand that it's not your experience, and I respect that too.
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:33:04
In reply to Re: ferapist daddies and emotional incest, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 10:18:36
> I truly believe that this is one of those things that if you haven't been through it -- felt it, lived it
You're making a lot of assumptions aren't you Daisy? I understand what I posted because it was my post.
-- you just can't understand. I'm tempted to write a long response - to point out my scholarly credentials and immense responsibilities at work -- all those things that crown a person as "sane" -- "mature" -- "independent."Daisy why would you want to do that? I've never suggested you werent mature or sane. I certainly see you as a mature woman.
>
> But nothing I can say can explain the experience. I'd just encourage Every - one - to keep an open mind.You are the expert on what you want from therapy and what you are getting. I respect that but I would also encourage everyone to have an open mind about all sorts of therapies and to ask hard questions.
>
> And I'll encourage you to be very careful with the incest word. You could do some serious damage with subject lines like that.Daisy the therapy I have described has caused damage and death.
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:39:06
In reply to therapists » zazenducke, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 10:28:50
.> I understand that it's not your experience, and I respect that too.
Dinah I never said anything about my experience or lack of experience did I?
If I mentioned jumping to conclusions would you assume I was experiencing CBT therapy? Are we not allowed to speak except from personal experience?
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 10:44:19
In reply to Re: therapists, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:39:06
I'm sorry. Is it your experience to have child selves express themselves in therapy? Or selves that could conceivably be understood as being children?
I really would like to know your therapy experience, zazenducke, if you feel comfortable sharing it. I always welcome the chance to understand others better.
Posted by sunnydays on February 1, 2008, at 10:45:21
In reply to ferapist daddies and emotional incest » Dinah, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:09:52
The answer is, there is an adult part to one's personality, and a child part. Everyone has those parts. In some people, the child part was nurtured and loved and feels secure, and it's what allows them to go to parties and have fun and be goofy and all that stuff. In some people the child part is wounded, and that needs to be addressed in therapy. Working with that part of the person in therapy does not have to mean infantilizing them. In fact, there can be shifts made in the same session between the child and the adult part. It's an issue of respecting all parts of a person and treating their whole self.
sunnydays
Posted by MissK on February 1, 2008, at 17:20:00
In reply to ferapist daddies and emotional incest » Dinah, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:09:52
Well, zazenducke, it's been my experience and many others that I have seen here to express 'childlike' emotions and thinking in therapy. When someone's issues go back far, so can their emotions and mindset surrounding the issue. The idea in some cases, I think, is to resolve it there and absorb it into the adult experience and mind.
As for danger of exploitation, that possibility exists with an unscrupulous therapist, perhaps. One doesn't even have to be expressing a childlike mind. Even as adults, when we open ourselves and make ourselves vulnerable to another's influence there is the risk of exploitation of that vulnerability.
Posted by Racer on February 2, 2008, at 0:19:42
In reply to therapists » zazenducke, posted by MissK on February 1, 2008, at 17:20:00
Posted by zazenducke on February 2, 2008, at 12:27:05
In reply to Nicely said (nm) » MissK, posted by Racer on February 2, 2008, at 0:19:42
Posted by zazenducke on February 2, 2008, at 12:55:50
In reply to therapists » zazenducke, posted by MissK on February 1, 2008, at 17:20:00
> Well, zazenducke, it's been my experience and many others that I have seen here to express 'childlike' emotions and thinking in therapy. When someone's issues go back far, so can their emotions and mindset surrounding the issue. The idea in some cases, I think, is to resolve it there and absorb it into the adult experience and mind.
---------
Well, Miss K, that's not what I am talking about.I would say therapists that infantalize their patients respond to them as children and try to meet their needs directly by playing a parental role and treating them *as if they were really children*-promising unfailing love and acceptance and handing out stuffed toys and generally trying to give them the parental relationship they missed. That is not what you are talking about is it? My point about emotional incest was that a parent does not involve himself in the child's sexual fantasies or thoughts. If the patient is Daddy-therapist's little girl at one moment being nurtured and supposedly having a corrective emotional attachment and the next moment discussing her sexual fantasies and experiences with the Daddy-therapist, it's incestuous.
>
> As for danger of exploitation, that possibility exists with an unscrupulous therapist, perhaps. One doesn't even have to be expressing a childlike mind. Even as adults, when we open ourselves and make ourselves vulnerable to another's influence there is the risk of exploitation of that vulnerability......
Not necessarily even unscrupulous just unwise.
Posted by muffled on February 2, 2008, at 14:48:46
In reply to Re: therapists incest *triggers* » MissK, posted by zazenducke on February 2, 2008, at 12:55:50
> I would say therapists that infantalize their patients respond to them as children and try to meet their needs directly by playing a parental role and treating them *as if they were really children*-promising unfailing love and acceptance and handing out stuffed toys and generally trying to give them the parental relationship they missed.
*I not sure how that stuff works. Maybe its more a matter of the child finding out its OK to let someone close and they not hurt them? Less so trying to 'replace', as just showing it can be safe? I dunno.
>That is not what you are talking about is it? My point about emotional incest was that a parent does not involve himself in the child's sexual fantasies or thoughts. If the patient is Daddy-therapist's little girl at one moment being nurtured and supposedly having a corrective emotional attachment and the next moment discussing her sexual fantasies and experiences with the Daddy-therapist, it's incestuous.*This is just my opinion. And it IS a thing I struggle with. For example, to be intimate w/DH, where do the ikids go? How do I ensure they not looking?
So I think if T is talking specifically to an ikid an ACTUAL ikid, then that kid is NOT the same person as the T talks to about adult stuff. And T might have to talk sex stuff to ikid if ikid knows bout that stuff, which ikid shouldn't know, but some ikids do. Even as a parent myself IRL, I do have to talk to my irl kids bout appropriate touch and their bodies and puberty and all that. I do not speak of it innappropriately, but factually.> Not necessarily even unscrupulous just unwise.
*Therapy profession has a range of people like any profession. We just have to try and be aware. I know my T is often concerned with how what she does affects me. I just know she is trying her honest best.
The world is full of danger.
I may have missed the point entirely. I have bad cold and feel like crap.
Best wishes,
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2008, at 16:43:11
In reply to Re: ferapist daddies and emotional incest, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 10:18:36
> resigning from the reality of what one is-what a price to pay-to always live a lie-to live a small life- small enough to fit in a therapist's office.
>
> zazenducke> this is one of those things that if you haven't been through it -- felt it, lived it -- you just can't understand.
>
> DaisymPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Or jump to conclusions about others.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
I encourage anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, to see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by MissK on February 2, 2008, at 16:59:02
In reply to Re: therapists incest *triggers* » MissK, posted by zazenducke on February 2, 2008, at 12:55:50
That is not what you are talking about is it?
No, what you describe wouldn't be what I was talking about.
Posted by zazenducke on February 3, 2008, at 11:56:11
In reply to Re: therapists incest *triggers*, posted by muffled on February 2, 2008, at 14:48:46
Thanks for answering. I appreciate your thoughts and wish you all the happiness and safety you deserve. I'm sorry you had to deal with so much pain.
I think I'll leave this thread after my PBC before I get muffled for 22 weeks.
This is the end of the thread.
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