Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 780497

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:34:48

I'm sorry if others find this triggering, but I feel I must share... I did a Google search on BPD this morning, and I came across this webpage.

__________________________________________________


THAT WAY LIES MADNESS
Way back when I was just beginning to practice psychiatry, I had a young woman patient (17 years old) whose name was Chris. She was one of those extremely difficult patients who we suspected of having a Borderline personality disorder (BPD) (you really can't diagnose personality disorders before the age of 18 or so)--and if she didn't have BPD, she was well on her way to developing it. She used illegal drugs and claimed they "helped" her; she was impulsive and histrionic; she cut herself frequently; made suicide attempts regularly; and was so desperate for attention and love that she would lie, cheat, and do anything for to get it. She and I had a particularly difficult session one day; and that night I happened to be on call in the emergency room. I was awakened at 2:00 am by a call from a "friend" of Chris, who informed me that Chris's body had just been recovered from the ocean, where she had gone and killed herself because she was so angry at me.

I was devastated. I remember sobbing for some time after I hung up; overwhelmed with remorse and convinced that I had chosen the wrong career. Her death was all my fault and in my sorrow I considered leaving psychiatry, since I obviously was no good at it. I thought about what a sad, wasted life Chris had lived. If only I had paid more attention to her; listened more to her pain and not expected her to control her behavior. For three hours I was in a state of abject misery and hopelessness. I would have done ANYTHING to change the fact that she was dead.

At 6:00 am the page operator put through another call to me--from Chris.

"Oh, " she told me nonchalantly, "the body they found on the beach wasn't mine"; her "friend made a mistake"; "sorry about that" and "could I see you a day early next week?"

It was then I remembered that she had been angry at me because I was planning on going on vacation next week and had told only been able to schedule her for the week after.

It was amazing how quickly my remorse turned to anger. Not for a minute did I believe that this had all been a tragic misunderstanding. No, I had been incredibly, unmistakably HAD. My emotions had been played as if they were a song composed by my patient on an instrument of her choosing. My clinical supervisor laughed (laughed!) when I told him the story, and pointed out to me that this is what it felt like to be well and truly manipulated by a pro.

And it almost worked. Hadn't I thought to myself that I would do anything to have prevented what I had thought happened?

Such behavior, he went on, was pretty typical of the Borderline patient--so, why was I shocked at what had been done to me?

Indeed. Certain behaviors are predictable, though normal people can have a hard time wrapping their minds around the whys and wherefores. The "root cause" was not my going on vacation (if you go down that route, you might as well say that the root cause was my very existence as a separate person from Chris).

--------------------------------------------------

.......what is even more stunning is that these people continue to distort and lie about everything the President has said about the war.

And, of course, it is particularly stunning how many are salivating at the prospect of America suffering a humiliating defeat at the hands of the terrorists. Like the borderline patient above, they will distort and filter everything that is said through their own agenda, which has nothing to do with defeating terrorists, and everything to do with defeating the "real enemies of civilization" -- the evil Bush Administration and fascist/imperialist/corporate America.

The patient I described above was a borderline personality. As an ideology, socialism and its various offshoots are, at best, borderline and at their worse, sociopathic and utterly malignant to a healthy human society.

There is no magic cure for this type of psychopathology. All the treatments that exist take years--and even then there is no guarantee of success. As the old adage goes, the patient really has got to want to change and have a better life. I see no evidence that the leftover adherents of socialism desire anything but continued power over others and an easy route to make themselves feel good about their lives.

An individual with this pathology can do a lot of damage within his or her own little world; so just imagine the unbelievable havoc that a dysfunctional ideology can do.
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html
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I felt very hurt and angry, and puzzled at some of her comments. To me, they showed the typical black-and-white thinking typically shown by people suffering from BPD. I'm guessing that her inner schema goes something like this:

"I got f*cked over by someone with BPD, therefore all people with BPD are bad. I hate socialists, therefore all socialists are bad people. All bad people have BPD, therefore all socialists must have BPD".

What I find scary is that this woman is a *practicing psychiatrist*. Good God!, I always suspected this type of stigma and irrational hatred existed in the psychiatric community, but it's still shocking to see it all laid bare like this. I'm still shaking.

Q

 

or in denial?

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:54:19

In reply to Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:34:48

Here is that last post in full:
____________________________________________________

TALES FROM THE DEM'S LEFTIST CANTINA

If there is one thing I have learned in my years of practicing clinical psychiatry, it is that people hear what they want to hear. This is particularly true for some personality types.

Let me paraphrase a short story that a patient with a borderline/narcissistic personality disorder once told me, when I asked her how things were going:

"Just wait until you hear how I stood up and took responsibility for myself, doctor! Last night at about 2am, my daughter knocked on my door and told me that she had been raped and beaten up by her boyfriend. There she was standing at my door and demanding that I help her out. But I said to her, 'I have to take responsibilty for myself alone so I can't help you. You'll have to deal with it yourself.' And I slammed the door in her face. Maybe I could have helped her, but I don't see why when I'm having so many problem of my own."

The context for this is that in her group therapy, they had been discussing interpersonal effectiveness and how to stand up for one's self when dealing with other people might be trying to take advantage of you. In my session with her I had followed up on this concept and how it might apply to her own life, which was replete with chaotic, hostile and dysfunctional interpersonal relationships.

She, however, had managed to interpret everything said in her group and individual therapy to mean that she now had official permission to tell everyone to 'drop dead' because her needs came first. This is, of course, not even remotely what "interpersonal effectiveness" is all about. In fact, it is about learning how to relate to others as real people. In fact, the precise problem in her life could be summarized as the inability to see other people as real, separate individuals from themselves. All too often, individuals with narcissistic or borderline personality traits have no room in their psyche for other people. They tend to see others as mere extensions of their own feelings and needs; or as threats to those feelings and needs. Other people don't really exist in their own right. Consequently, they only respond to parts of the other person that happen to coincide with their own needs, wishes or feelings.

This is characteristic of the peculiar derangement of the borderline/narcissistic person. It is all about them, you see. The world is not big enough for their needs and anyone else's at the same time. All situations must be filtered through the feeling prism of "what's most important for me?" or "how can I most benefit from this?". Compassion can be faked if necessary to achieve one's ends, but expressing the rage and hatred inside is even more important.

Nothing is ever considered within the context of the whole--not the person they are relating to at the moment, or the words that person might be saying.

With that in mind, consider the constant derision with which the left regularly attacks what they refer to as President Bush's "Mission Accomplished" speech. Of course, if they actually had bothered to listen to the speech, they would know that he never said any such thing:

All that proves is that they didn't listen to what he had to say four years ago. As A Better Where To Find points out, Bush hardly communicated anything remotely like "the war is over":

"We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people.
The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. Then we will leave, and we will leave behind a free Iraq."


Nowhere in this speech did Bush declare that the war was over, nor that we could leave Iraq. In fact, he made it plain that we would stick by the Iraqi people and remain in place until they could establish a democratic government that could secure the nation.

In fact, if you read through any of Bush's speeches since 9/11, I defy you to find anywhere where he claimed that victory would be easy; or without sacrifice; or cheap. I defy you to find anywhere that he claimed this war with Islamofascism would last only for a short time.

You won't find it, because he has never said such things. He has always said that this war would be difficult. He has always said that it would take a long time to accomplish our goals. He has always said that the sacrifice would be great.

This administration has made mistakes, but I also defy you to find one administration prosecuting a war which was perfect---either Democrat or Republican. The truth is that perfection and even the most perfect planning do not guarantee a smooth outcome in wartime. Whatever its mistakes, the Bush Administration has made them in good faith and bending over backwards to accommodate the politically correct leftists in our midst. I happen to find him most at fault for that particular grievous error. War is not--nor can it ever be--a multicult-PC-"feel good" endeavor.

Those who weren't listening back when Bush spoke on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln are still not listening. It should come as no surprise to anyone that we continue to be engaged with a ruthless, dedicated and deadly enemy who will never give up easily. What is shocking to me is that there are still so many who refuse to face that reality.

What is even more stunning is that these people continue to distort and lie about everything the President has said about the war.

And, of course, it is particularly stunning how many are salivating at the prospect of America suffering a humiliating defeat at the hands of the terrorists. Like the borderline patient above, they will distort and filter everything that is said through their own agenda, which has nothing to do with defeating terrorists, and everything to do with defeating the "real enemies of civilization" -- the evil Bush Administration and fascist/imperialist/corporate America.

The patient I described above was a borderline personality. As an ideology, socialism and its various offshoots are, at best, borderline and at their worse, sociopathic and utterly malignant to a healthy human society.

There is no magic cure for this type of psychopathology. All the treatments that exist take years--and even then there is no guarantee of success. As the old adage goes, the patient really has got to want to change and have a better life. I see no evidence that the leftover adherents of socialism desire anything but continued power over others and an easy route to make themselves feel good about their lives.

An individual with this pathology can do a lot of damage within his or her own little world; so just imagine the unbelievable havoc that a dysfunctional ideology can do.

Frankly, you don't have to imagine it at all. Just look at the great harm the current Democrats are doing to the prosecution of this war. Just take a gander at the flippantly casual vitriol and unveiled hatred the left slings from the ideololgical caves they hide in; and where they can be found chortling at their own cleverness.

To paraphrase Obi-wan as he entered the Mos Eisley Cantina, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany than those who have taken on the "mission" of destroying this country--both from within and without. Their deepest desire is to raise a banner that says "Mission Accomplished" themselves...and I for one will do everything I can to make sure that day of surrender never happens.

UPDATE: Comments on this thread are closed. Since the "wretched hive" that swarmed here don't seem inclined to take the challenge issued above and their discussion was pointless, except apparently to insult me and the thoughtful readers of this blog.
__________________________________________________

I can see by her comment at the end that other people have been as shocked as I have. I find her reaction, and interpretation, very interesting.

Q

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal

Posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 6:52:10

In reply to Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:34:48

Interesting post;

With regard to political
ideologies, i have met many socialists who
impose the most right-wing and
pecuniary priorities on their friends and
relatives, showing great indifference on
a personal level, and i have met many conservatives who personally are rigid, opinionated and intolerant, yet generous, even magnanimous on an individual level, and whom you can trust to be truthful and reliable.

I don't mean to generalize but to point out that the compassionate ideology schtick may be too much for human nature in some political crusades.

[Be not too hasty, to trust or to admire the teachers of morality; they discourse like angels, but they live like men.] - Samuel Johnson, 'Imlac in Rasselas'

Squiggles

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Squiggles

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 8:39:55

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 6:52:10

I'm not concerned with her political ideologies.

>[Be not too hasty, to trust or to admire the teachers of morality; they discourse like angels, but they live like men.] - Samuel Johnson, 'Imlac in Rasselas'

Yes, interesting quote.

Q

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*

Posted by arora on September 3, 2007, at 8:46:43

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 6:52:10

I found this further down in her blog....

"KEEP TERRORISM WHERE IT BELONGS
(in the Middle East)

SUPPORT THE IRAQ WAR !

It is clear that Iraq and Afghanistan are functioning as terrorist flypaper. If we keep them busy over there, they are less likely to commit terror here and elsewhere around the world."

Well, I'm sorry, but this is just sick sick sick.
When I read the reports of the poor innocent people who suffer so horribly in Iraq- the hundreds of women and children who have died from appalling injuries every time a bomb goes off in a public market place- how DARE this woman be so callous and dismissive of these people's lives?

If she is really a psychiatrist, then I really feel for her clients... she has no empathy or compassion whatsoever; she's really pushed my buttons and I'm going to have to shut up or start using lots of asterisks! *****!!!

In reply to your question, Quintal- I don't know enough about BPD to know if that's what she is displaying, but that blog is massive- it must take up all of her spare time maintaining it- maybe a bit of an Obsessive Compulsive?

arora

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* arora

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 9:13:02

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by arora on September 3, 2007, at 8:46:43

I was concerned with what I thought were disparaging references to people suffering from borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. I would hope never to see this kind of material written by a practicing psychiatrist; a person whom people suffering from BPD would be encouraged to trust.

I was searching for info on BPD and her blog came up because it had so many references to BPD and narcissism. If you search the term 'borderline' within the blog you'll see what I mean. I wonder why she's so sensitive about these particular problems? I wonder why she feels compelled to write about them so oft, and why she writes about them with such venom? I think she protests too strongly.

>she has no empathy or compassion whatsoever; she's really pushed my buttons....

Yeah, those are big warning signs of BPD/narcissism.

Q

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal

Posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 9:22:17

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* arora, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 9:13:02

The biographical information suggests to me that this Psychiatrist works possibly for NASA, or in the Aerospace Industry, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that her political views are influenced by nuanced psychodynamic thinking.

I take exception to most of what she says, and wouldn't rely on any of it; however, she does quite possibly have an axe to grind, too.

Honore

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Honore

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 9:32:18

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 9:22:17

>The biographical information suggests to me that this Psychiatrist works possibly for NASA, or in the Aerospace Industry, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that her political views are influenced by nuanced psychodynamic thinking.

I'm not sure what you mean here Honore.

Q

 

I just stay away from stuff like that, its creepy. (nm)

Posted by muffled on September 3, 2007, at 10:30:14

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 9:22:17

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 11:42:43

In reply to Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:34:48

I'll bet nearly anything that my prior T is BPD. If you had seen her conduct during what would be my second-to-last session, and to see the stone cold look in her eyes, it woudln't take a psych. degree to know that something was wrong. Given her history, and her personality in general, I wouldn't be surprised.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of practitioners with BPD, NPD and other major personality disorders practicing. My state has some of the most stringent laws and regs. when it comes to licensure and practice, and there are still a lot of people who shouldn't even have a license to practice. I don't get it; some employers administer personality tests as part of pre-employment screenings(the MMPI being one of them), so I would really like to see the graduate psych. programs do the same. Although some of the more clever sociopaths, BPD and NPD types could probably "throw"them, at least some form of screening would weed out the less-clever ones. I do know this; something has got to change in order to weed out people that are unsuitable for the profession. Based on my experience, and some of the negative T experiences I read here, something has gotta change.

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*

Posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 12:03:37

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Honore, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 9:32:18

Only that if she works in the Aerospace Industry, she probably has political affiliations with what some call the military-industrial complex, which might color her views.

Also, the photo of her shows her behind a desk in what looks like a room with many desks in one space. This suggests that she doesn't do anything related to therapy, or possibly have a lot of sophistication in the therapy of anyone-- or in theories of the psyche.

So I just think, given her probable agenda, and self-interests, I wouldn't expect her to have much to contribute to understanding either political theory or BPD-- or anything psychological.

I suppose anyone who has a degree in psychology can opine about psychological syndromes-- but I was just saying that given her job, I wouldn't take it seriously-- on any level. Plus of course she seems like a bit of a well nut. I don't mean to put down those in the aerospace industry-- only this particular woman. Nor do I say that everyone in that industry has certain views or lack of sophistication-- only that this woman clearly seems to, and to have let her prejudices run wild.

Honore

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Maria01

Posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 12:13:44

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 11:42:43

I still think it's better to speak to
a compassionate relative who has known
you and your history, or a good friend,
professor or even priest or rabbi, if you are religious.
Human conflicts are common to all, and unless
there is a medical problem, which a therapist
may not recognize or admit to or be able to
treat for that matter, and would require
a dr., you are better off without a T, imho.

Squiggles

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Squiggles

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 12:29:38

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Maria01, posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 12:13:44

That's OK to a point, but a good T can be more objective. Sometimes our friends and loved ones can't be objective and it can really cloud their perspective. Relatives are not objective either, and in the case of a lot of people here, are not a good source of feedback/comfort, etc. A good, well-trained, mentally fit T can be an asset. The key is finding a competent T. Dr's are too darn busy, and can't address a lot of serious problems in the space of their 15-minute office visits, and many of them have little or no training in active listening and other skills that could help. Their main goal is to treat a physical ailment and move on. A good doc, however, will refer a patient to a T if they feel the patient would benefit. Doesn't happen too often, though.

I've lost a lot of respect for the counseling/psychology profession, but there are good T's out there that can of huge benefit to people who may not have the options you suggested.

I'm definitely not religious, so a clery member/rabbi would be pretty far out of the question for me and others like myself who are not religious or even spiritual.

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Maria01

Posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 13:12:38

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Squiggles, posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 12:29:38

Actually, i think that someone who knows
you for a long time has the insight and
historical knowledge to be far more objective.
Even in medical matters, such as a gallbladder
problem objectivity is more likely if the
doctor knows your gastrointestinal history.
The objectivity that you may be referring to
is the objectivity of textbook and case observations in their training, but not in the personal knowledge and understanding of your situation.

Like Bertrand Russell said, there is knowledge by proposition and knowledge by acquaintance; and in the case of analyzing personal problems, acquaintnce trumps propositions.

Squiggles

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 13:36:39

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Maria01, posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 13:12:38

"Like Bertrand Russell said, there is knowledge by proposition and knowledge by acquaintance; and in the case of analyzing personal problems, acquaintnce trumps propositions."

Not always...if you have been a regular member of this board, you will see that for a lot of the posters/commenters family members/clergy may be at the root of what they are facing. Clergy members alone have been guilty of abuses of power, based on their knowledge and history with the parishioners...the Catholic church is a prime example with the high rates of priests sexually abusing young people within their flock, many of whomm are now adults still coping with the aftereffects of CSA at the hands of a "trusted member of the family"

Some people may lack the strong social network that provides close, loving friendships, or may be bound by personal or cultural mores that inhibit confiding in one's friends.

If you are fortunage enough to have a strong network of friends, etc., and don't see the need for a T, that's awesome..rock on. For many, many people on this board and in real life, that isn't the case. The key for people in those situations is to find a mentally fit, competent T until such networks can be discovered or created. Even then, a good T would come in handy. If you are so fortunate as to not need or want to see a T, I have to ask: Why are you on this board? Just askin'

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Maria01

Posted by Squiggles on September 3, 2007, at 14:01:16

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 13:36:39

Both relatives and church people are capable
of abuse - what the statistic are i don't know;
but i would bet on relatives being responsible
for greater abuse.

I meant that if you *can* speak to someone close
it would better than speaking to a stranger.

Why am i here? i have seen some posts that interested me, and i am spying.:-)

Squiggles

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:40:18

In reply to Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 4:34:48

I have to say this whole thread makes me really uncomfortable--hurt and angry perhaps.

Part of the reason is that once upon a time I was diagnosed as BPD and went through intensive inpatient treatment so that by the time I completed treatment at one of the best private hospitals in the country, I was not considered BPD anymore.

Also, I have csa issues that I don't let interfere with my work and never have. If they did, I would take a LOA. So, I am not ready to condemn everyone in the field of psychology, my field, with how horrible they are if they had a diagnosis of BPD or narcissistic (there is normal narcissism too). I don't deny there are bad therapists out there practicing. Bad gastro doctors, bad neurosurgeons, bad internists, bad pulmonary doctors, bad kidney doctors, etc, bad nurses, you name it--bad plumbers, roofers, bricklayers, etc etc.

I just am not willing to paint a whole profession as irresponsible for the ones that are bad. There are remedies. For those who have had bad experiences, you can contact the licensing board for that profession in your state, and you can file a complaint. Even if nothing comes of it, if enough people start filing complaints about that person, then it will be looked at for sure. Who knows, maybe others have already filed complaints against the people some here have seen and who were really bad in terms of violating boundaries and other stuff. So, take action.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:43:48

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:40:18

I think I need to just stay away for awile. I am starting to get really upset. Sorry.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers*

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 15:16:22

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:43:48

I am sorry to see that this thread is upsetting to you, but I can understand how it can be, given the line of work that you are in.

I do agree that there are "bad apples" in every profession and line of work, and that the affected people need to take responsibility and file complaints. I have also seen some bright, healthy, caring people in the psych. profession who are grounded and emotionally healthy enough to practice effectively. They give me hope that there are good people in the profession. Unfortunately, people(like myself) can lose sight of that after encountering one of the "bad apples"

Take care of yourself,
Maria

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe

Posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 18:53:57

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:40:18

I regret that you're uncomfortable with the thread RealMe. Most therapists have had their own personal struggles, and that seems to make people more capable in many instances of understanding and working well as therapists.

So I think the only thing one can say about this woman is that she has made a strange, although not unprecedented, mistake about diagnosing political points of view with psychiatric categories. It never makes sense to reduce a political point of view to a diagnosis-- especially in a pejorative way, as she did.

It's not valid to suggest that a psychiatric diagnosis, or emotional difficulty, prevents one from being a good therapist, or from making valid judgments about whether one is capable of working as a therapist. These are very complex and personal judgments.

Both are ways of looking at one problem or sphere and confusing with another one-- political or professional. There really isn't any easy correspondence among these things.

But I'm really sorry if that came across in anything that was written, by me or anyone else.

Honore

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 19:02:34

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:40:18

I find find material upsetting too RM. I don't like being tarred by the same brush as those borderlines that abuse people, or use suicide and SI as a tool of manipulation either. That's something I've never done, it's just not my personal 'borderline style'. It's likely people only behave that way because they've been abused in some way themselves anyway, so I find her lack of compassion disturbing.

The thing that upsets me most is not just that she holds these opinions, but that she chose to publish them in the public domain under the heading 'Dr. Sanity', and let everyone know she was a practicing psychiatrist. I think it showed poor judgment at best, so I guess we shouldn't take her too seriously, but still.

Q

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Honore

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 19:29:05

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe, posted by Honore on September 3, 2007, at 18:53:57

I didn't really stay away for long; I just needed to get my bearings again. What I was taking from what I read was that someone who has had serious problems in the past or problems in the present has no business working in psychology.

As I thought about it more, there isn't a person alive who does not have problems, including therapists. If we idealize them and believe they are perfect, then we do them and ourselves a disservice. You are right Honore. I am not saying that this woman is okay in her comments. My upset had to do more with what seemed to be the tenor and tone of some posts that anyone with problems had no business working in the field. So, I will let that be an opinion of some. I still do an outstanding job so I am told, and so I will have to get my hard shell back on and ignore anyone who would suggest there is no way I can work and have problems too.

I was in therapy throughout my postdoc at Menninger's, and those folks knew my history, and so if they were not concerned and valued my work, well then these were some of the best of the best in the field doing psycholanalytically informed treatment at the time. So, later; I have two reports to finish tonight. One for sure, and I should get the other one started.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe

Posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 21:49:03

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Honore, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 19:29:05

My concern was that this woman seemed to bear extreme hostility to the people she was/has been working with. Surely this is an barrier to a healthy therapeutic relationship? Nobody has suggested that you personally are unfit to practice because of the past BPD diagnosis, in fact I would think a former sufferer would have greater insight and compassion than a non-sufferer. It was the perceived lack of these qualities in 'Dr. Sanity's' posts that disturbed me. While acknowledging that all therapists are human and have human frailties, I strongly feel that 'Dr. Sanity' should not work with borderline patients while she holds such extreme prejudices against them. How much progress could you have made if people like 'Dr. Sanity' worked at Menningers, for example? I understand why this is a sensitive issue for you, and for those of us who suspect we have been abused by doctors, psychiatrists and therapists with untreated borderline personality disorder this is a sensitive issue too.

Q

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* Quintal

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 22:15:36

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe, posted by Quintal on September 3, 2007, at 21:49:03

I am not upset with anyone; I just had a sensitive moment. It is something I struggle with at times. Should I even do the type of work I am doing and will be doing in the future plus supervising which I love to do??? My T thinks it is fine but often wonders if evaluating sex offenders hasn't affected me sort of after the fact, a delayed reaction. I said I did not think so except maybe a couple of guys, but they were violent rapists, and I have never been raped as an adult by a stranger. So, I have questioned what I have been doing, and lately I have seen few sex offenders as they seem to come in waves up for trial. My last two next week are not sex offenders, and so what next!!!

I also understand how you feel. I was diagnosed as chronic schizophrenic at one time prior to my treatment at Menninger's. Most doctors had given up on me. My hospital doctor at Menninger's and later as my T just laughed and laughed at this. I didn' t think it was so funny, but he did as he said I wasn't schizophrenic like I thought I might be. I am not so sure I liked having the diagnosis of BPD either, but it was a lot of hard work to deal with personality reconstruction as they call it. So then, I was told I just had some avoidant traits but no Personality Disorder. My T now and my last one agree. I guess this is why my T thinks I can handle stuff better now. He's right, but it doesn't make it any less painful.

No that psychiatrist sounds a little weird to say the least. I will say that most therapists do not like working with people with BPD. This is because, I think, they believe it is all manipulation and gaming. I know that is not true. Menninger's was expert in working with BPD, and I have always liked working with BPD patients. I would not join in the emergency when it occured and was not put off by it. I would try to explain calmly what I saws from the time span of a few days. And the anger never got to me either. I knew it was not me personally that the person was angry with. Anyway, obviously there is more to it than that.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 22:24:41

In reply to Re: Is 'Dr. Sanity' an undiagnosed BPD? *Triggers* RealMe, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 14:43:48

I in no way was implying that you aren't fit to practice. As others have said, there are many people in the psych. field who have encountered a lot in their lives and have gone on to become wonderful practitioners because of their hardships. Unfortunately, there are those out there who have let their hardships enter the room with them when working with clients, and well, you know the rest in my case :/

I just wanted to clarify that for you, because I didn't want you to think I was implying that you(or anyone else) were unfit to practice because of their histories. Quite the opposite =)


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