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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2007, at 17:33:37
In reply to Re: Magic Moment » Dinah, posted by annierose on August 31, 2007, at 16:18:56
Thank you!
I think your son's birthday is a far better reason to remember that date than that Katrina.
I think I avoided TV that day. It's all just too discouraging. So I avoid.
Posted by fallsfall on August 31, 2007, at 18:10:34
In reply to Magic Moment - very long, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 2:19:15
I'm so glad that you have new understanding. I hope that it can give you some peace. You and your therapist both do a great job in your therapy.
Posted by honore on August 31, 2007, at 18:27:44
In reply to Magic Moment - very long, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 2:19:15
I have a longer response, but my first reaction, on reading your description, was Yay!!!! that's so fantastic.
and I'm so so glad you weren't derailed by your friend! You can know what you want and need and value-- and you can hold onto it, even if someone else doesn't approve. That's so great-- and even greater that you and your T have reached such a place, where you can acknowledge together the deep, so magical, and so true importance of those moments-- how much they carry, for the future, and how much they do heal.
That you can feel something different in the room is just so wonderful-- I know it will last, even if it becomes more "ordinary"-- the ordinary wonderfulness of such a deep sharing that deepens over time.
Honore
Posted by RealMe on August 31, 2007, at 21:23:05
In reply to Magic Moment - very long, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 2:19:15
I am really happy for you Daisy. My T talks about this too, the intimacy being part of this, and I wish I could say I feel it with him. Not yet. Upsetting theray session today, got into stuff and had a hard time really getting into the emotional part; I started to, and then I think I dissociated and then got into my head. Nevertheless, he was nice to say I took two big steps today by sitting closer to him on the couch and starting to talk about the painful stuff in more detail so as to get to the emotions.
I am happy for you, and I would say more; I just can't right now; hurting too much.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:03:43
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by sunnydays on August 31, 2007, at 7:29:53
I'm sorry you are having a tough time of it. It seems to go like this doesn't it? Up and down, always with the background fear of loss.
I hope your teeter-totter is up soon.
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:11:45
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by JoniS on August 31, 2007, at 8:47:07
"I forgot to mention that so often when I read your posts, I could swear that we see the same T."
OK - come clean.:) We need to compare notes geographically or perhaps at least physical descriptions? I'll go first - I'm in Ca and my therapist is probably 5'8", medium build, dark hair and eyes, nice looking and has been in private practice for nearly 25 years.
And thank you for your other response. I think spiritual is a wonderful way to describe the relationship, on so many levels. I can tell you've had these moments by what you wrote.As far as writing a book, I think that would be really fun. But I'm afraid the one I want to write might be called, "Here is what your clients/patients wish you knew." And those that needed to read it never would. *sigh*
Posted by JoniS on August 31, 2007, at 22:35:30
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:11:45
Yours sounds adorable!
I'm in TN. Mine is 5'8", medium build, light (thinning) hair, blue eyes. Nice looking, has been in practice about 12-15 years.
So, now we know there are at least 2 nearly perfect therapists in US. I thank God I see one of them!
Dont completely dismiss writing the book. We'll keep after ya!
Joni
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:39:39
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2007, at 11:23:06
"I think of therapy as being the same way. The hard work prepares us, but the special moments, large and small, change us."
This is very wise and is true for most things. I've read that once change, or progress, in therapy starts to happen, it can happen seemingly very rapidly. But it happens on a foundation that took a long time to lay down. So quick is relative.
"I'm not sure what you described was a matter of gratification. But why is gratification necessarily bad? Even soothing and feeling good, which admittedly we could potentially begin to look for from our therapist, can if used wisely be a way of teaching us to self soothe. And this wasn't even that."
Hey - yeah! Who said gratification was bad? It is just that word - gratification, instead of meeting a need. It sounds like a giving in, instead of something beneficial. One of the things I really have come to know from this whole process is the feeling inside when I feel secure and how important that must be to young children. It has changed how I work with families.
I think that I just learned again that sharing my therapy experience needs to be done very judiciously. It is hard to understand some times, particularly for people who are CBT oriented. When I told my friend I go 4x a week he actually gasp.
And thanks for the writing encouragement too. Annie's right - you write beautifully and thoughtfully. You should write the book.
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 23:00:14
In reply to Magic Moment - 2 'Near Perfect Ts' in this world, posted by JoniS on August 31, 2007, at 22:35:30
I lived in TN (memphis) for awhile as a kid. We walked by Elvis' house everyday coming home from school. Of course, he was alive then.
I'm glad you have one of the near perfect T's too. Do you know his orientation?
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 23:04:16
In reply to Re: Magic Moment » Dinah, posted by annierose on August 31, 2007, at 16:18:56
I knew you'd understand what I was trying to write. I think it is just hard when you have no frame of reference to understand the connection and not dismiss it as pathological dependency.
I've been studying the idea that mother's and babies "co-create" their relationship - there is mutual regulation going on. I think it is the same for therapy. When you hit that plane of syncronicity, you are co-creating something very cool.
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 23:07:01
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by fallsfall on August 31, 2007, at 18:10:34
Peace is fleeting. I'm trying to hang on to it. I hate three day weekends. :(
Therapy is a dance isn't it? And sometimes, when we get it right, I feel like those 80year-old couples at weddings who glide around the floor together effortlessly. They just know each other so well that they bob and weave, completely together. It makes you ache to watch them
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 23:10:19
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by honore on August 31, 2007, at 18:27:44
"the ordinary wonderfulness"
I love this term, I want to steal it. Because I think that is what feels so right about these moments. It isn't the content but rather the knowing of the emotions which is shared between both people.
Posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 23:40:18
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by RealMe on August 31, 2007, at 21:23:05
I'm sorry you ar hurting. Opening up the old stuff can be very hard sometimes. I think you are really working hard at healing. Just keep taking those baby steps.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2007, at 9:54:47
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » Dinah, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:39:39
lol. That was my childhood dream.
Funny, yesterday my therapist laughed that we should write a book together. Therapy from a therapist's point of view/ therapy from a client's point of view. He said/she said.
He loves my stories of babble because really he knew surprisingly little about what was going on on the other side of the therapy space.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2007, at 9:56:07
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long, posted by DAisym on August 31, 2007, at 22:11:45
Funny, my mental picture has always been of a sandy haired therapist. :)
Posted by sunnydays on September 1, 2007, at 10:39:28
In reply to Magic Moment - 2 'Near Perfect Ts' in this world, posted by JoniS on August 31, 2007, at 22:35:30
I would like to also nominate my T! I had called him on Wednesday evening hoping he would be able to call me. I knew he'd be out of town on Thursday. He called me back yesterday and said if I needed to talk to call him. So I did. I had pretty much given up that he would get the message, but he called me back at 11pm! And we talked and there wasn't anything specific that was wonderful, but it was nice to know for sure he wasn't mad at me and to just talk to him for a few minutes.
sunnydays
Posted by antigua3 on September 1, 2007, at 11:34:07
In reply to Re: Magic Moment 3 'Near Perfect Ts' in this world, posted by sunnydays on September 1, 2007, at 10:39:28
Posted by DAisym on September 1, 2007, at 13:13:34
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2007, at 9:54:47
So I think we should organize a summit and write chapters in groups - we just have to go back in the archives and it is almost done! Remember the "rules" thread? Or what not to wear? LOL. Think we could get an advance for the book and use it to rent a beach house for writing? (wishing, wishing)
Do you think things have changed in the therapy world about what therapists are being taught and what they want to know -- not just what the financial constraints dictate? I know in the medical field a lot of GPs are discouraged because they can't practice human relations anymore. Half the time they don't even get to look at their patients, they look at the computer screen.
And very early this morning I ran across an article saying something to the effect that more people are, or have been, in therapy in the USA than ever before. Isn't that interesting that we have more and more ways to stay connected and communicate (cell phones, blackberrys, computers)and yet people are seeking out a "live" person to talk to.
In the old days it was bar-tenders...
Posted by DAisym on September 1, 2007, at 13:20:00
In reply to Make that 4! (nm), posted by antigua3 on September 1, 2007, at 11:34:07
I think my therapist would cringe at being described "near perfect" -- he says it is a long way down when you are put up on a pedestal. But I think we can stop and be thankful for finding a therapist who is a near perfect fit for us - individually. I suspect that there are people here who would be driven crazy by my therapist's approach. So we all need something different. I know we know this. But aren't we lucky that there are so many different styles and orientations?
And I'd like to also point out to Joni, and Sunny and Antigua and others -- a great deal of why therapy is working has to do with you all, and your courage to talk about the relationship and all the other hard things. So your therapist is probably really glad to have you as a client - you make them look good!
Posted by RealMe on September 1, 2007, at 22:58:17
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » Dinah, posted by DAisym on September 1, 2007, at 13:13:34
I think it depends on the type of therapy one does. I was trained in psychoanalytically informed psychotherapy in the early to mid 90's, and so not that long ago, but long enough. All the workshop information I get for CEU's has to do with technique stuff that is suited to brief therapy (6 sessions). This is all a lot of people want. Do I think it works? Well for some people I suppose it does if they have a very specific problem to address. It wouldn't work for me, and this is why I knew I needed to go see an analyst who does long-term indepth therapy/analsis. There are actually quite a few people still being trained this way, and some people who at middle age are going back for this type of training, mostly in the bigger cities. If there is a city nearby with a psychoanalytic training institute, then this is a good resourse for a therapist who knows his or her stuff.
I think it is also interesting how some people prefer a female vs. a male therapist for csa work. I chose a male because it was males, and I have some warped ideas about males; ask my husband. LOL. So, my thing is to work on this with a male because it is harder to do with a male than a female.
Anyway, I am glad to be better matched with my current therapist even though we have only met for four months now. I am feeling he is the one, though. He is honest and tells me how it will be, and how he will help, and he is so gentle and kind and accepting. It is so scary at times. Sat on the couch, though, on Friday. Closer but not too close yet. I was imagining how it would be to sit closer, and I got too anxious.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by DAisym on September 2, 2007, at 1:02:43
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by RealMe on September 1, 2007, at 22:58:17
Are you using analytic technique with your clients, or a mixed approach? I think it is really interesting how therapists decide what their approach is going to be.
As far as working with a man or woman, for me the choice wasn't conscious. I had no intention of working on the csa, or of even telling - ever. I interviewed two women and then found the therapist I have now. But I have a lot of issues trusting women, I have very little faith that they can be protective or really have the capacity to hear me when I'm falling apart - so I don't with women, at least not very often. (yes, mother stuff) I've wondered if I'd chosen a woman if I'd have gone into all this stuff.
I think it is great that you are only sitting as close as you feel comfortable. You are taking care of yourself. How close is the couch? I sit on the couch (could never lay down) and my therapist sits across from me. But the distance is good and I use the couch pillows to barricade myself. Last week I consciously tried to not pull the pillows in my lap and in front of me. I was successful 3 out of 4 days!
Posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 3:01:37
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » RealMe, posted by DAisym on September 2, 2007, at 1:02:43
Hi
I am not doing therapy with people right now, just evaluations. I don't want to try to do therapy while I am so up and down and feel so wretched sometimes.
I already went through a lot of therapy and worked on most of my mother issues years ago; I knew that by not working on csa stuff, someday it would come back and bite me. It has. After therapy for around 11 years, I went back to school for my doctorate and then did a postdoctoral fellowship where my old therapist was.
So, my old therapist died the end of 2004, and this is when all the unresolved stuff came back. I had not seen him in over 10 years and was doing fairly well. When I heard he had died, I was devastated. I saw him altoghether inpatient and then outpatient for a total of 11 years, I think it was. He was pschoanalytically oriented. So after I decided to see someone, that person is the one who kept pushing the ECT. He said he was "psychodynamic." Hah; that was a joke right there. A generic what???
So, now the analyst I see says he thinks I should lie on the couch too. No way; at least not know. He has a two chairs that are at right angles with the couch at either end, and I would sit in the chair way across from him. I sat on the couch last time at the end furthest from him but still closer than the chair and pictured what it would be like if I sad at the other end. We would be playing footsy with each other, we would be that close; no way! There is where my head would be if I would lie down. UGH. He would be so close to my head he could practically whisper in my ear. That just spokes me out. One day maybe I will lie down, but not now. I put a pillow like a barricade on the side of me that is closest to him. This all sounds so silly, but it isn't is it??
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by ClearSkies on September 2, 2007, at 10:07:20
In reply to Perfectly Matched, posted by DAisym on September 1, 2007, at 13:20:00
>
> And I'd like to also point out to Joni, and Sunny and Antigua and others -- a great deal of why therapy is working has to do with you all, and your courage to talk about the relationship and all the other hard things. So your therapist is probably really glad to have you as a client - you make them look good!
>
>My therapist said that amongst therapists it's well known that clients are chosen so as to make the T's look successful - so if we hit it off, or are able to bring up the difficult subjects and get through to the tough bits, we help to make them look good.
A mutual admiration society.cs
Posted by annierose on September 2, 2007, at 11:54:12
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long » DAisym, posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 3:01:37
Real Me and Daisy -
The couch thing is scary. I announced at the end of one session (as I was exiting the door) I would lay down next time. I didn't want to have another discussion regarding the couch. She had encouraged me previously and there was no way in h*ll I was going to lay down.
I chose that appointment date because it was an early evening appointment. SO ... I've never admitted this to anyone, I had a glass of wine before I went. Didn't help much.
The entire time I layed there, I heard a train crashing through my head. It was loud. The swirling, rushing sound was unbelievable ... especially because the room was silent. She asked me if I had a headache. Silly t. I explained the static in my brain and how vulnerable I felt. She stayed with me, calming me, trying just to be with me in the moment, not asking anything of me but to tell her all the feelings that were coming up for me right then and there.
Although it was difficult, I told her I promised myself that I would lie down for 3 weeks, 9 sessions. After that, I would decide.
There are times it is utterly relaxing lying on her couch. Other times, I want to jump up and sit. The few times I have sat up since then, (3 years?) I find equally difficult.
I hope when you feel comfortable enough, you would give it a go a few times. You really can't decide after the first session since it is like any new experience, the first time is the hardest.
I do find that I self-edit less. My eyes are closed and thoughts float up without all the censoring. It's harder and easier because I can't see her reaction, I must trust it. Sometimes I'll ask, "Are you rolling your eyes?" And she always reassures me she's not. I am very attuned to her voice, the inflections, the tone, the choices of words she uses.
It's different.
Posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 22:42:47
In reply to Re: Magic Moment - very long + Dasiy » RealMe, posted by annierose on September 2, 2007, at 11:54:12
Thanks so much for your post. I hope I can lie on the couch sooner rather than later. Right now it was a big step for me to even sit closer to him, and he acknowledged this. The very idea of being that close to him without being able to see him really scares me. When I was in my teens and after all sorts of csa which continued, my older brother became schizophrenic and violent, and I would go to bed at night not sure I wouldn't be killed in my sleep. He almost killed me on more than one occasion and my mother too. No father in the home. So, to have my head so close to him is very threatening. I know in my head he won't kill me, but I have to get used to sitting closer first.
I only go twice per week due to a number of factors. He would like me to come three times per week, but his schedule is full, and I just don't know if I want that much intensity right now anyway. So we settled on twice per week for a year. Then see what we might do. Thanks, though. I really appreciate your post.
RealMe
(OzLand)
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