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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:08:09
parents that fight with a mother standing her ground (ie constant yelling back and forth)..
or
a mom that chooses not to fight back or argue to save a child from a 'yelling' home, therefore showing a daughter that its 'ok' that dad yells at mom all the time...
Posted by frida on July 9, 2007, at 11:16:55
In reply to whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:08:09
hi..
i don't know..i've experienced both as a daughter, and both are painful...I would have preferred them to stop living together...maybe seeking help so that the fighting and yelling stops is an option?..
Frida
Posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:38:51
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by frida on July 9, 2007, at 11:16:55
>> i don't know..i've experienced both as a daughter
so did i, only my dad was the subserviant one.
>>, and both are painful...I would have preferred them to stop living together...
i always wished they would divorce and i could go live with my dad...they never did.
> maybe seeking help so that the fighting and yelling stops is an option?..
> Fridathanks frida but he doens't think there's anything wrong...he's very loving but also very childish and argumentative. i'm hoping that as finances get better (hopefully) then so will the arguments..right now that's mostly what they're about. i can't stand it...and i'm tired of fighting with him. i feel like i've already F(*&Cked up motherhood 101.
the simplist thing is a safe home zone...it's not non stop...but too often for my taste. and i swear he often provokes arguments. i think he likes getting me riled up sometimes. cuz it seems like once i finally "go off" then he's almost happy. and gets calm.
my T thinks he might be BPD?? i never thought of him as that as it was always me with the 'issues'. but the closer i look. the more i am agreeing...
what i hate most is it's bringing back all the horrible memories of 'fight's' growing up....one more mess of memories i could Really do without.
its starting to wear me down. i was hoping i would do well enough off meds...but at this rate, i'll be back on them in a couple months. this weekend was pretty bad.
...i'm sorry my daughter has such a f&#ked up mom...(tear).
Posted by muffled on July 9, 2007, at 13:24:15
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:38:51
> > maybe seeking help so that the fighting and yelling stops is an option?..
> > Frida
>
> thanks frida but he doens't think there's anything wrong...he's very loving but also very childish and argumentative. i'm hoping that as finances get better (hopefully) then so will the arguments..right now that's mostly what they're about. i can't stand it...and i'm tired of fighting with him. i feel like i've already F(*&Cked up motherhood 101.**you so haven't screwed up, your thinking of your child. Thats a GOOD mom!
> the simplist thing is a safe home zone...it's not non stop...but too often for my taste. and i swear he often provokes arguments. i think he likes getting me riled up sometimes. cuz it seems like once i finally "go off" then he's almost happy. and gets calm.
**definately seems to some dynamic going on there...
Is there anything you can do to not get hooked in somehow?> my T thinks he might be BPD?? i never thought of him as that as it was always me with the 'issues'. but the closer i look. the more i am agreeing...
> what i hate most is it's bringing back all the horrible memories of 'fight's' growing up.**we all got our sh*t, cuz no family is perfect. You just have to do the best you can with yours, its all you can do. And itas seems to be just what your doing. Good.
>
> ...one more mess of memories i could Really do without.
>
> its starting to wear me down. i was hoping i would do well enough off meds...but at this rate, i'll be back on them in a couple months. this weekend was pretty bad.**Just being a Mom is HARD. Its a huge change. Life is SO different with a baby, and often very tiring.
> ...i'm sorry my daughter has such a f&#ked up mom...(tear).**Oh MAN B2, I have a feeling your gonna be a great (but NOT perfect) Mom.
You love your kid, you thinking of her, your watching out for her, and you watching out for yourself so that you can care for her.
You doing all the right stuff.
Hope you can somehow work stuff out with your man. Dunno what to say bout that cuz theres so many variables...
Your on the ball B2, your gonna do OK.
M
Posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 13:56:10
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on July 9, 2007, at 13:24:15
muffled...i'm so tired. so very tired. not of being a mom but of fighting. i'm just so tired of it.
anymore it seems like my spunk is getting fewer and farther between.
i've been thinking lately that all my life i've had to fight hard for any little thing in my life. it seems like no matter what the relationship i have,, my basic rights, beliefs and needs are not worthy of anything. i'm tired of my beliefs/thoughts/feelings being invalidated.
i get spunk now and again and fight and argue my rights...but why..can't my wishes just be respected.do i have this sign carved into my forehead that says argue with me, yell at me till i change how i believe, or until i no longer feel worthy. tire me out with yelling. i'm just not worth it?
i say i am...but anymore....and i might be a good mom, but what good will it do if what i say is ALways combatted??
i Tell my DH that him berrating me will make our daughter grow up to believe it's ok for her boyfriends to yell at her...he just doesn't see that.i guess what makes me really sad sometimes is i feel like i turned him into what he is now. maybe my being so screwed up and being used to being abused...somehow screwed him up and made him think its ok for him to act this way to me?
he is a good man, though many faults...as do we all. i love him very much and will always do everything to make this work...but i'm tired of being the only one trying. of being the only one thinking that this is NOT ok to continue on.muffled, i feel like i'm starting to get sucked down that black hole filled with shrapnel, never knowing where that next injury will come from...or when.
i think its time for me to start hanging on to things.
i don't want to become suicidally depressed again. i don't ever want to leave my little girl, before i can teach her things.
...thnx for your thoughts muffled.
b2c.
Posted by sunnydays on July 9, 2007, at 15:25:38
In reply to whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:08:09
Studies show that constant conflict in a home is not good for a child, and that in cases of divorce it is not the actual divorce that can cause harm but all the conflict going on during the divorce.
That said, it's never good to role model something that you would not want your child to live themselves.
I would vote for standing up for it as much as you can. But the best would be if you could talk to your husband and agree to only argue out of your daughter's earshot. She doesn't deserve to be around yelling of any kind. If you could communicate that to your husband, it might help things for your daughter.
Good luck,
sunnydays
Posted by antigua3 on July 9, 2007, at 15:44:27
In reply to whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:08:09
Please don't underestimate the stress both physically and mentally that having a child can put you under. It really can mess with the relationships, too, especially in the beginning when husbands can be jealous and take it out on the mother. I know it happened to me, but through talking to others and reading, I know many others experience this.
My husband is after me all the time about me not making enough money. I've learned with help that it's better if I don't engage in his harranging. "sorry you feel that way, but I don't" is a constant response from me. I've found that if I don't engage, he backs off.
Maybe counseling? And meds should be a real option before you feel too bad and head deep into that black hole.
It can take a whole year for our bodies to recover from giving birth, so don't be too hard on yourself. Your daughter is so young, and you will do a great job with her. Even if she sees her father behaving this way when she grows up, she'll catch on--my kids certainly did. The never ending comments over money make him look bad!
Just my experience. Try to get some rest,
antigua
Posted by Phillipa on July 9, 2007, at 16:58:14
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by antigua3 on July 9, 2007, at 15:44:27
Will your husband agree to marriage couseling. I think that is the first step Love Phillipa
Posted by muffled on July 9, 2007, at 20:55:35
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 13:56:10
You still going to T B2?
That last coupla posts were good descriptions of whats going on for you. Maybe if you can get to T you can discuss this with her, and figger some very specific strategies to not get caught up in hubbys words/tone etc, and yet still get your needs met.
Plus its quite OK to say if your baby is ever hard and stuff, its not gonna be all easy. But we learn.
Meantime, have you friends with babies that you can hang with and talk with at all?
Take good care, your little girl DOES need her Mom. Mom needs her little girl too!
M
Posted by B2chica on July 10, 2007, at 8:28:47
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter.... » B2chica, posted by muffled on July 9, 2007, at 20:55:35
i've tried telling him that we shouldn't argue or yell in front of DD, his response is "that's not yelling".. well, technically he isn't blowing a lung or anything but his voice is raised and it's his tone more than anything. in other words, he doesn't think there's anything wrong.
(((((((((antigua))))))))))))
Thank you very much. i think this is very true. i think he's still trying to deal with how to be a father. on the one hand he doens't want his life to change...(no responsibilities other than work)...and i just need more than that now. but when i bring that up he starts saying things like "don't even TALK to me about having another one then..."' (meaning another child) this makes me very sad.and i wish counseling could be an option, he doens't think anything is wrong. if there's a problem "it's mine, not his" so he shouldn't have to go (and this is his opinion not mine btw)
and i do hope that DD will see that he Overreacts to things...but only if she understands that this is not appropriate.and you are SO right Antigua...i do need rest. i think it's all finally starting to run me down....i just can't get enough sleep. i can't even get back exercising, all i'd want is a simple 20 min/day walking....i can't.
((((Muffled))))
ya, still seeing T but i can only afford to see her once a month. i do want to discuss this with her, but i do have some other stuff too that i really need to cover. i wish i could afford to see her more. and the baby stuff is hard...but not as hard as trying to care for her needs AND all the rest: hubby's needs, and bills, and housework and dinners, and working full-time. its everything else that i need help with but no one seems to want to help. i swear he still acts like he's 20 and he's almost 40! i wish he'd realize that life is no longer about working then coming home and not doing anything else. i guess it makes me angry but also jealous that he's still got that 'care-free' life. work hard during day then nothing but play at night.
and i wish i did have friends with babies. i do have a sis n law that has one a little older than mine. and it's great to talk, but she doens't live in the same town so its basically email.
and muffled, you always seem to make me feel bit better bout things. thank U.
Posted by antigua3 on July 10, 2007, at 9:00:54
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 10, 2007, at 8:28:47
You'll be OK, but you have to take care of yourself. Is there a teenage girl in the neighborhood who can watch her while you nap? Say, take her for a walk or something so she's in the stroller?
My husband thinks everything is my problem and always has,but after all the T I've done, I've realized how much of our dissention is about him, and not me. I'm easy to step right into guilt and take responsibility, but I accept now that's it's not all me.
My husband is a great dad, but he still is jealous even after all these years. He wants me to pay more attention to him, and sometimes with being depressed I admit I often fall short w/him.
I've decided to stay in this marriage for many reasons, but it does mean tolerating some things I really shouldn't have to sometimes. It's not easy, but it has always been impt to me that my kids have both parents (I know it's not for everyone, we all have to make our own decisions!)
Your daughter will know what is appropriate because you will teach her by your actions and deeds, and that doesn't mean that you will always have to point it out to her w/regards to your husband. That will just make her defensive. Life is full of opportunities for kids to learn lessons and I always steal from others for examples when I don't want to get close to home!
Please take yourself,
antigua
Posted by B2chica on July 10, 2007, at 11:41:59
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter.... » B2chica, posted by antigua3 on July 10, 2007, at 9:00:54
>> You'll be OK, but you have to take care of yourself. Is there a teenage girl in the neighborhood who can watch her while you nap? Say, take her for a walk or something so she's in the stroller?
actually there is a really nice girl that i trust in our neighborhood (i like her mother very much) and they've both offered to watch DD if needed. i may take them up on it.
> My husband thinks everything is my problem and always has,but after all the T I've done, I've realized how much of our dissention is about him, and not me. I'm easy to step right into guilt and take responsibility, but I accept now that's it's not all me.you're right, i guess i'm so used to taking on the responsibility of things it just comes naturally to do so.
> I've decided to stay in this marriage for many reasons, but it does mean tolerating some things I really shouldn't have to sometimes. It's not easy, but it has always been impt to me that my kids have both parents (I know it's not for everyone, we all have to make our own decisions!)its nice to hear someone else saying these words...i often feel guilty for 'putting up' with it. but i really feel that our love is there. he is a good man...and i will do what it takes to make it work. it just gets hard when i feel like i'm the only one trying to make things better.
> Your daughter will know what is appropriate because you will teach her by your actions and deeds, and that doesn't mean that you will always have to point it out to her w/regards to your husband. That will just make her defensive. Life is full of opportunities for kids to learn lessons and I always steal from others for examples when I don't want to get close to home!thank you for these words. i guess. i'm just so worried about messing her up that i forget that sometimes kids are a lot smarter than we think. and using others examples is a great idea.
i must say that the one thing i REALLY dislike that my DH does. is he almost uses the child in an argument....
like this morning i brought DD into our bed to feed (4:30ish) my alarm goes off at 5:15 so i just thought i'd make it easy. and she fell asleep there (she always does sleep nice in our bed) anyway i got up and did my morning things, got ready to leave to work and came in to tell DH how babies milk is thawed and in fridge, gassy med in cabinet-she may need it...then DD started to rouse and cry... DH said "yep, mommy just HAD to wake you up, she doesn't like to see anyone sleep".
this really bothers me 1)he's putting words in my mouth (not true assumption) i don't want DD believing such things, 2)being passive aggressive -bad habit to learn and 3)making me some bad person toward daughter. he does this a lot. when he's mad at me he'll say things To DD about 'mommy'. "mommy just doens't like to see daddy happy", "mommy spends all our money" (usually after i've been to the store to get baby ESSENTIAL items only-less than $20), "mommy's leaving you again" if i have to quick give her to him (run to the store quickly or even if i have to hand off for bathroom break!) i just don't think he understands that Children Don;t understand sarcasm...they are concrete thinkers the first many years of their life. and if Daddy says 'mommy doesn't want you to sleep" the child will believe that! it scares me the way he speaks sometimes...
oh well...this isn't your problem. i will talk with T about it. i see her this week.thank you all for listening.
Posted by Maria01 on July 10, 2007, at 12:19:00
In reply to whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 9, 2007, at 11:08:09
I don't think constant discord is good for anyone; children or adults in the home. the younger a kid is, the more likely they are to blame themselves for the discord.
I think it's important to let your daughter know that none of what is going on is her fault, and to set some ground rules with your husband regarding when/how discussions are going to take place. Have you thought of having a joint session with your husband and T?
While it's good that you are standing your ground, please keep your daughter in mind, and check in with her to see how she feels about what's going on. Some kids feel like they have to "take sides" when parents are fighting, and that's stressful.
I guess one good way to model "fair fighting" is to tell your husband "If you continue to XYZ, then we will need to pick this up later. I meant it when I laid down the rules, and if you don't respect that, I'm not continuing this discussion, period. " If anything, it will show your daughter that settting boundaries BEFORE disagreements happen. That way, if someone insists on not respecting them, it's time to take a break.
Posted by Maria01 on July 10, 2007, at 12:21:34
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by Maria01 on July 10, 2007, at 12:19:00
Yikes! just read in a prior comment that your daughter is small. In a way, that's good; kids are very resilient when they are young, but if there is a lot of discord at home when they reach pre-school age, they mostly likely will act out or regress in their behaviour.
Still, it's never too early to set a good example for how to handle discord at home.
Posted by B2chica on July 10, 2007, at 14:12:55
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by Maria01 on July 10, 2007, at 12:19:00
shes only a few months old. but i'm sure she "feels" somethings off, when we fight. and i want to fix this BEFORE she's old enough to understand what's being said.
i do like the idea of boundary setting. this has Always been my problem. i like very much the example you gave...this is what i needed. i would like to try this.
thank you Maria
Posted by Maria01 on July 10, 2007, at 14:42:44
In reply to Re: whats worse for a daughter...., posted by B2chica on July 10, 2007, at 14:12:55
Yes, definitely address it before she is old enough to figure out what is going on. Really small children like your daughter get distressed when their routine changes, so if her routine is kept the same, even in times of distress, she will do fine. I think there is way too much fuss made over what happens in infancy, personally. Infants do just fine if their caregivers are calm and consistent, and if their routine stays the same despite outside influences. They are amazingly resilient. =)
You are right to want to address it now, so that by the time she does get older, you and your husband will have established a healthier way of discussing things. At your daughter's age right now, the only thing she will sense is your tension from the fighting when you go to hold her, etc. She will be calm if you are calm, but don't worry about being a bad mother. By virtue of the fact you are concerned for your daughter's welfare shows that you are doing a great job. We can only do the best we can with what we have. =)Your are on the right track.
Set those boundaries now, and you and your daughter will be much better off for it =)
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