Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 766930

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Update - T. replied to my email

Posted by 10derheart on July 4, 2007, at 11:36:45

In reply to I hate being angry with my T :-(, posted by 10derHeart on June 30, 2007, at 18:38:20

Yesterday. I feel safer now at least, like I'm not lost from him somehow (WHY does the mind always have to run to the extreme?! I KNOW CBT techniques for this, yet I can't seem to apply them) and I can release most of the crazy thinking about how my expressed anger over this will destroy our rapport and he will want to terminate me....

It says:

"myrealname,

I neither hate you, nor do I want to "get rid" of you. I like having you as a client ... it is hard work, but if it was easy we wouldn't be getting anywhere. I am very concerned that this situation has been so catastrophic for you. I know that the cell phone is an issue for you, but this incident seems to have caused the bottom to fall out. When you come in I would like you to help me understand why. - T."

-------------------------------------------------
I will see him tomorrow. I'm already anxious about that in another way, because one session is normally not enough....and no chance for another this week. It's all so confusing sometimes.

 

Re: Update - T. replied to my email » 10derheart

Posted by sunnydays on July 4, 2007, at 13:28:56

In reply to Update - T. replied to my email, posted by 10derheart on July 4, 2007, at 11:36:45

(((10der)))

Sounds like he's going to be very prepared to listen to whatever you want to say to him tomorrow. At least he 'gets' that you're really upset, and my guess is he'll want to remedy his part in that. No T wants their clients to be more upset after having a session. I imagine by help him understand he just means to talk about it with him. I don't think you have to have any brilliant insights, although he'd probably welcome them. I bet he'll be willing to listen to any anger as well. And he's not going to leave you -- he said he likes you!

sunnydays

 

Re: Update - T. replied to my email » 10derheart

Posted by TherapyGirl on July 4, 2007, at 13:40:06

In reply to Update - T. replied to my email, posted by 10derheart on July 4, 2007, at 11:36:45

I'm so glad he responded to you, 10der. And it sounds like he's in just the right place to hear what you have to say and try to fix it.

I have very positive feelings about your session tomorrow. Keep us posted, okay?

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » 10derheart

Posted by DAisym on July 4, 2007, at 13:57:33

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » DAisym, posted by 10derheart on July 4, 2007, at 11:33:48

I'm glad he responded and wants to hear from you what is so upsetting, instead of "just" assuming he knows. The phone is one thing - interruptions and all that. But bringing his family into your session is a whole other level.

For me, it reminds me how "false" things are - not that the feelings aren't real, but that the relationship is so prescribed and restricted. I can "need" him - but I can't have him right when I need him - like you said.

The realities of the relationship work because of the magic of those walls. I walk through the door and things are suspended - I can open up to this whole other side of myself because the world can't intrude and judge it. He and I work in the cacoon of safety and when it is breached it hurts unbelievably bad. Again, for me, I feel so alone and kind of stupid to have invested so much of myself in someone who isn't really mine.

It makes me understand those people who don't want to know anything about their therapist. They keep the therapy space clean of all of that. Last summer I accidentally stumbled across my therapist's yellow page ad. I might have (probably did) post about it. It was a very cute picture of him and his wife, in the traditional "couple" pose and the ad talked about couples therapy, etc. I freaked out completely. They looked so happy and I wasn't doing couples therapy with him so this wasn't what he really wanted to do...it was awful. And then I saw the two of them doing their grocery shopping together like a week later. They didn't see me... It was so painful and I felt so silly but I just couldn't force myself to not be upset. It took weeks to get back to "my" issues - though what I ultimately learned about myself and my fears was valuable.

I know how scary this is and how double-sided. It will take a lot of talking and forced honesty. But it will be worth it. The relationship is worth it.

And I'm glad you have Babble too. :)

 

Re: Update - T. replied to my email » 10derheart

Posted by canadagirl on July 4, 2007, at 20:07:16

In reply to Update - T. replied to my email, posted by 10derheart on July 4, 2007, at 11:36:45

Sounds like he will be open to your feelings about the situation. I hope you can say what you need to say, you will likely feel much better if you get it all out. I hope it goes very well for you.

 

Thanks, I'll try my best (nm) » canadagirl

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 0:41:45

In reply to Re: Update - T. replied to my email » 10derheart, posted by canadagirl on July 4, 2007, at 20:07:16

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » Voce

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 1:03:34

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » 10derHeart, posted by Voce on July 2, 2007, at 19:22:50

It's wonderful to see you here, too. Sorry I never got around to replying when you popped in. Too scattered, I guess. I smiled when you described your married life as you sounded so peaceful and happy!

Yeah, I will be glad to dissect why it bothers me so much. I am extremely direct with him about things he does and says in the room. I'd wager maybe 1/3 of our therapy time is spent on issues about 'our' relationship, which works, although I complain about me bringing those up too often. But, my T. is of the mind that, "The therapist *is* the therapy," and I don't think I could work with anyone who didn't understand how very true that is...

The phone...it's hard to explain. He doesn't do this often. But each of the few times has been terribly upsetting, with this being the worst. He really is wonderful and helps me so much, and is solid as a rock. He gives me his full attention, is always on time, never cancels, gives me about 65 minutes, will add an extra session nearly any time I want, and allows limited emails. Not so bad, eh?

But the phone.....this time, it was too much, too abrupt, too casual, too much like he expected me to be okay with ending the session before I was fully outside the door and so forth. I think I can make him see that easily. But then they'll be more to it, and there is, and that's scary to say out loud. I know you understand this stuff, the clashing of the 'real' life (I feel real in that sacred space, but I'm not real enough to have him WHEN I need him) with the therapy space....yuk. Always hard to talk about that wanting and needing to be more important to them than is possible.

Better go to bed now so I have enough energy to deal with this session. Hope you pop in again...miss you.

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » 10derheart

Posted by Dinah on July 5, 2007, at 8:34:51

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » Voce, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 1:03:34

> I know you understand this stuff, the clashing of the 'real' life (I feel real in that sacred space, but I'm not real enough to have him WHEN I need him) with the therapy space....yuk. Always hard to talk about that wanting and needing to be more important to them than is possible.

That resonates so much with me. And it is so hard to talk about. :( I hope everything goes well (or well enough at least) today.

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » Dinah

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 12:53:01

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » 10derheart, posted by Dinah on July 5, 2007, at 8:34:51

I've been back maybe an hour or so. I think I feel peaceful and okay. I think. It's weird, but I need time for it all to process before I'm ever sure how I *am* after a highly charged session.

It was hard to talk about, but not that hard. Practice makes it better, and I practice on this sort of stuff about our relationship an awful lot lately - good and bad. I just can't look at him after I say highly personal and honest things - too self-conscious to look. But then I miss out on any facial expressions, which can help when they are kind... Maybe I ought to work on the looking at him more thing? I think we both worked awfully hard and I wonder if he's as worn out as I am...? Poor T's with more clients all day...can't take a post therapy nap as we often can/do/must ;-)

I'll try to post more about the session later tonight.

 

But it still floors me

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 13:10:24

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 12:53:01

That my therapist - or most of them for that matter - unless they are very young, or only do short term work - actually need someone like me to teach them about the sacredness of the therapy space. This came up again today, as I was telling him the good part about the cell phone is that he recalls my first reaction maybe 1.5 years ago, and honors it by always leaving the room and closing the door immediately if he must talk on it. Back then he expressed wonder and surprise that I called it "sacred" (no doubt borrowed from a wise Babbler) and said he'd have to really give that some thought.

I am still floored by the need to re-explain it some, or remind him of the depth and significance of the sacredness, which suffers if it's violated by his "real" relationships with family intruding in any form. It just all seems so obvious. Especially for a fairly gifted, sensitive, good T. like this one who has done this work going on 32+ years.

My theory, after spending several years on Babble, is that plenty of his clients have felt the same way, but were too afraid to express it, just didn't know how or thought it was an "unacceptable" topic.

 

Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart

Posted by sunnydays on July 5, 2007, at 14:49:20

In reply to But it still floors me, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 13:10:24

I think you're right 10der. My T has been a T for years and years and has told me I'm the first client who has ever been willing to talk this in depth about our relationship. Most people just never get to that point in their therapy. I think Babble is a self-selected group of some pretty strong amazing people. And you're one of them!!

sunnydays

 

thx, sunny... how sweet! you are, too :-) (nm) » sunnydays

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 17:20:59

In reply to Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart, posted by sunnydays on July 5, 2007, at 14:49:20

 

Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart

Posted by TherapyGirl on July 5, 2007, at 17:21:52

In reply to But it still floors me, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 13:10:24

I completely agree with you, 10der. And this resonates with me for slightly different reasons:

<<I am still floored by the need to re-explain it some, or remind him of the depth and significance of the sacredness, which suffers if it's violated by his "real" relationships with family intruding in any form. It just all seems so obvious. Especially for a fairly gifted, sensitive, good T. like this one who has done this work going on 32+ years. >>

Maybe this is the way I need to explain to T why it was so upsetting for another client to knock on the door during my session. Do you mind if I borrow your words?

I work on looking at my T more, too, although it definitely doesn't come naturally. I try to make it a point to look at her when I say "loaded" things, though, so I can see if she's with me or to judge her reactions.

 

Re: But it still floors me » TherapyGirl

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 17:42:07

In reply to Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart, posted by TherapyGirl on July 5, 2007, at 17:21:52

> Maybe this is the way I need to explain to T why it was so upsetting for another client to knock on the door during my session. Do you mind if I borrow your words?

No, of course I don't mind, but thank you for asking. Anything that might help :-)

I keep trying to imagine my emotions in the moment - and the scar that would be left - if that happened to me. Yuk. I imagine my thing wouldn't be with that client - there's no accounting for other people's views or prioritizing of therapy in their lives...everyone just doesn't hold it in such a special place as some of us here do. But if I had to witness my T. *talk* to another client, during my session...{shudder} He knows those people need to not exist very often, and NEVER during our time.

I don't even like it when he says hello to the next person, or, "I'll be just a moment," or anything around his waiting room, so I try to exit fast to avoid that. A longer conversation would feel so....nasty. It's a violation, you know?

> I work on looking at my T more, too, although it definitely doesn't come naturally. I try to make it a point to look at her when I say "loaded" things, though, so I can see if she's with me or to judge her reactions.

well, then you're doing way better than me. I look a lot on the "light" stuff, and once in a great while when I ask a short, direct question, but when I tell big stuff, or am really talking from a younger place and we both know it....I am always looking down and see only a little shifting in my peripheral vision. I just feel so unsure and self-conscious :-( I've got to focus on that. I think I am losing the connection with him in session and not seeing some understanding and compassionate looks, things that I could recall to calm me later, from this constant floor-studying.

 

Re: But it still floors me

Posted by TherapyGirl on July 5, 2007, at 19:11:43

In reply to Re: But it still floors me » TherapyGirl, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 17:42:07

> I don't even like it when he says hello to the next person, or, "I'll be just a moment," or anything around his waiting room, so I try to exit fast to avoid that. A longer conversation would feel so....nasty. It's a violation, you know?

Yes, unfortunately I *do* know. :-)
> well, then you're doing way better than me. I look a lot on the "light" stuff, and once in a great while when I ask a short, direct question, but when I tell big stuff, or am really talking from a younger place and we both know it....I am always looking down and see only a little shifting in my peripheral vision. I just feel so unsure and self-conscious :-( I've got to focus on that. I think I am losing the connection with him in session and not seeing some understanding and compassionate looks, things that I could recall to calm me later, from this constant floor-studying.
>
I just want to clarify here that I *try* to look at her when I say loaded things. At least half the time I fail. The half I manage to do it, I can't usually sustain eye contact.

Good Lord, it's hard, isn't it?

 

Re: But it still floors me » TherapyGirl

Posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 22:20:31

In reply to Re: But it still floors me, posted by TherapyGirl on July 5, 2007, at 19:11:43

Yes, it is incredibly hard at times. Yet there we still go, mostly.

Guess mostly we keep deciding the benefits outweigh the pains, and the sense of 'needing therapy for therapy,' again and again? This relationship is so important to me right now, I imagine I'd tolerate a lot of discomfort to sustain it... {sigh}

 

Re: But it still floors me; it floors me, too » 10derheart

Posted by Honore on July 6, 2007, at 9:43:25

In reply to But it still floors me, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 13:10:24

I've been thinking about what you said-- about the sacred space--and I think you're so right.

I find it dismaying, how many Ts think it's okay to take phone calls, or even to check the phone. No matter how great they are otherwise, this breaks through the space in a way that can have a lot of resonances, even if it's a subtle as glancing over, not to mention picking up.

Not just when it's other Ps; even, or esp. --but most importantly when it's family members. I can't understand how they can not understand that talking with a son or daughter or wife or husband disrupts the space more deeply-- because it reminds us that this other world of significant others is so immediate. It feels like a huge threat, which would overwhelm our rightful space. I think it's a terrible mistake-- in judgment-- or the depth of imagination of this space. Maybe they forget. Maybe they take it for granted. But you never can.

In the recent time with your T, 10der, it was particularly disruptive=terribly so-- because the ending is one of the most emotionally freighted times of the appointment. It's particularly hurtful and disruptive, when that moment is somehow cut off, and taken away by a phone call with a son. That would upset me a lot-- I don't even want to think how much.

Your reaction seemed really right to me-- and I'm glad you were able to work it out, and repair it. You're right, I'm pretty sure, that all Cs and Ps experience the same things-- but may be less aware of what or why, and less able to speak on their own behalf.

We all need to do that-- It can be hard to do it in a constructive way-- and to hold together despite the disruptions after the appointment-- I have to admire your ability to do that, despite being hurt and angry.

Honore

 

Re: But it still floors me; it floors me, too » Honore

Posted by sunnydays on July 6, 2007, at 11:14:01

In reply to Re: But it still floors me; it floors me, too » 10derheart, posted by Honore on July 6, 2007, at 9:43:25

Well said, Honore. I remember one time when my T couldn't think of the name of someone he wanted to refer me to (a holistic medicine person), he asked me if it was ok if he call home. I wasn't quite aware of why it would bother me, but I definitely kept saying, "No, it's ok, I really don't think I have the money to go to this person anyway." The one time I heard a previous T talk to his wife on the phone (at the very very beginning of the session) I hated it.

sunnydays

 

Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart

Posted by Dinah on July 6, 2007, at 15:18:30

In reply to But it still floors me, posted by 10derheart on July 5, 2007, at 13:10:24

You are so right. I have talked to my therapist many times about how "this" (doing a rotating gesture to the space between us) is sacred in a very special way. And I really thinks that to some extent he gets it.

Yet when it comes to practicalities, he can't figure out why I'd mind his sharing his office with his nontherapist wife, or his glancing at the cell phone. Even now that he understands the latter (he still doesn't grasp the former), he still expressed surprise the other day that it was such a sensitive topic to so many Babblers. I guess he thought I was unique and odd.

It's true he does a lot of short term CBT and doesn't always work with the relationship that much. And he says many of his other clients actually take calls during therapy so think nothing of his checking his phone. But even then, where the client apparently doesn't feel it's a sacred space, surely it's a sign of respect for a client to give them your full attention for the time they are paying. To glance at your phone says so very much to the person you're talking to. Which is true in any relationship, not just therapeutic ones.

 

Re: But it still floors me » Dinah

Posted by OzLand on July 6, 2007, at 22:06:09

In reply to Re: But it still floors me » 10derheart, posted by Dinah on July 6, 2007, at 15:18:30

You are so right Dinah. I cannot imagine my analyst taking phone calls while we meet or even looking at his phone. I am not sure where his phone is come to think of it. On the other hand, I am one of those who look at the floor too when the topic is touchy or from the distant past and involves abuse stuff. When he cuts in before the end of the session, he wants me to look at him and talk to him as an adult. I feel like such an idiot, but I do it, and it helps to feel okay to walk out the door.

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-(

Posted by antigua3 on July 7, 2007, at 11:16:38

In reply to I hate being angry with my T :-(, posted by 10derHeart on June 30, 2007, at 18:38:20

Boy, you guys would HATE my T. She checks the phone number when it rings and if it's her daughter she'll take it quickly. She hops in and out with the dog, answers the door when she's not sure who it is (Fed Ex maybe), fixes her coffee if it wasn't hot enough, and does all sorts of things! She warns me sometimes if she knows it's going to happen, but there's always a lot of action going on because her office is in her home. AT leaset she doesn't do her laundry--that would be a deal breaker!

Sometimes it does bother me, but I'm used to it by now. It's hard to get back on track sometimes but I tell her if I think she's not paying attention to me!

And my pdoc yawns and checks his watch, which makes me beserk. He has one of those fancy computers that he takes notes on and the other day I caught him and asked him "What are you doing?" He looked like a scared rabbit. "Uh, checking old notes." Well, it's bothering me, I said--who knows--he could have been playng Solitaire for all I know.

I'm not making light of this for anyone. My situation is just different, but I do agree that therapists shouldn't do these things; it's disruptive to the relationship and the flow of the conversation. I do know that if we are interuppted my T will take the extra time to reconnect even if it means we go over.

So tell them when it bothers you. And the little therapist voice in my head hears them asking, and what does this bring up for you? Waaaa
antigua

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » antigua3

Posted by OzLand on July 7, 2007, at 11:22:13

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-(, posted by antigua3 on July 7, 2007, at 11:16:38

If I had your therapist, I would dump her in a second. Where did she go to school? Does she have her diploma on the wall and her license?

If I couldn't dump her, I would just quit therapy and see my pdoc for meds. Fortunately I have a psychiatrist who is also an analyst and who prescribes med's and does therapy--no checking his watch, answering the phone, only making sure we stop on time, and so yes there is a clock in his sight, but I can tell he is not looking at it all the time as if he can't wait for the session to end.

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » OzLand

Posted by antigua3 on July 7, 2007, at 17:10:45

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 7, 2007, at 11:22:13

I don't think I could every dump her; I love her way too much. And yes, she went to a very fine school, diplomas on the wall and all. After 17 years, we have developed our own rhythm that seems to work for us. I wouldn't trade her in for all the tea in China. My pdoc, OTH, is young and still needs some training. I'm on the fence about him; I don't know if I have the patience to teach him how to behave. Just kidding here, of course, pls don't get upset.
antigua

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » antigua3

Posted by OzLand on July 10, 2007, at 21:50:10

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » OzLand, posted by antigua3 on July 7, 2007, at 17:10:45

Sorry; I did not mean to come on so strong. I just know I would go nuts if my therapist did that. I have never had a therapist behave that way. So, what would she say if you told her it feels disruptive for you when she answers the phone or the door or lets the dog out or in, etc. Is there some reason she does not take care of the dog before you come?? And why does she answer the door? And has she not told her daughter that if she does not answer the phone, it means she has someone with her? These are questions I would be asking her if she were my therapist. So, you say it would be a deal breaker if she started doing her laundry too. So, what will you do when that happens next or when she says she has to turn on the dishwasher or take the dishes out of the dishwasher?? I really would be interested in knowing what she would say about any of these questions.

 

Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » OzLand

Posted by antigua3 on July 11, 2007, at 2:18:45

In reply to Re: I hate being angry with my T :-( » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 10, 2007, at 21:50:10

I like this conversation; you aren't coming on too strong at all. It puts my T in a whole new perspective for me, realizing she does all these things that can be viewed as interfering with the work we do.

First, let me say again that we have a long-standing relationship and maybe she has loosened up as we've gone along. I certainly have.

For one thing, I'm the first appt of the day, so she often isn't quite ready, so that makes for some chaos with the coffee, the dog (and cat!)who have to go in or out (sometimes they can't make up their mind if they want to join us, and I know that distracts my T, so she tries to settle the dog down in her corner.) These are the moments when we catch up on the week.

But if there is anything very powerful going on, my T ignores it all and focuses on me. I'm more distracted than she is sometimes by the door and will make her check so we can get on with it.

I know we've crossed some boundaries here, and I've learned to tolerate her foibles because it makes her more human to me. When she moved to a new house, I really hated that because I felt like too much of her life was on display for me. We spent many a session discussing the change and how it was affecting me. Now I just ignore it or notice the new or interesting things.

Her daughter is usually very respectdful of her mother's clients (she doesn't live here anymore), but sometimes there are quick details that have to be verified between them, especially when a trip is planned. It's not like she has a long conversation w/her, and if the phone call goes on, my T always tells her she will call her back. Once, when the daughter was a little girl, she interuppted the session because she had found something very special that she'd lost after her father died; I wouldn't have traded that moment for anything. My T stepped out of the office to talk to her, and the girl profusely apologized, but it was one of those life events that a young girl couldn't wait for because it meant so much to both her and her mother. And it lead to some good stuff between us.

I used to be jealous of her daughter, but I'm not anymore. My T is an excellent T, but she lives a life of chaos, and she readily admits it. Her work is where she focuses, and focus she does.

If I told her these things really bothered me, she would change them, I'm certain. And as I said, she always makes the time for me, and I am free to call her whenever I want/need to and she is there for me. She's the most reliable person in my life, really, except for lately when she hasn't called me back and we will talk about that tomorrow, how that makes me feel. Part of it is me being strong enough to say "I need to talk to you NOW," and if I do, she's always there.

She's certainly not perfect, but she is a great T, or at least the perfect one for me. I especially like the hugs and I love you's after every session. I go in feeling like my life is worthless and she knows me well enough to show me different ways to think so that it's very rare that we haven't connected another piece of my puzzle that together we've been working on for a long time, or she has left me thinking of things I never would have otherwise.

It's certainly not all Pollyanna--no relationship is, but she has allowed me to see her humaness and opened her heart to me so that I can work on the things I need to. In a nutshell, she's really the only person in this world that I truly trust.
antigua


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