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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 22:49:55
Yeah,
So, after about 6 Weeks with my newT, I'm doing pretty well, I think. I'm still guarding my emotional expression, but I'm talking to her, and telling her uncomfortable things. blah blah blah...Today I think she wanted to take it to another level. At one point she asked, "If you could talk to your mom about anything, what would you talk to her about?"
I skirted around this one pretty well. (Of course, duh, I'd talk to my mom about her retirement plans...)
With 4 minutes left in the session, T says something to the effect of, you know, in these situations, one of the first steps of coming to terms with the history of abuse is that we need the passive parent (mom) to acknowledge the abuse, and to apologize that they did not take care of you the way that they should have. What you really want to hear from your mother is that she is sorry and that she knows that you were abused and that it hurt you.
And of course my gentleT, who has pretty much been listening, never saying things THIS directly. well, she's saying this, and she's my mom's age, and there are tears streaming down my face.
Of course, I counter, that what I'm most afraid of is that I will give her the opportunity to tell me how sorry she is for her passive role, and that she will deny and tell me that my memories are worthless. And how will my relationship ever survive that? That's the terrifying thing. That's why I had tears running down my face- can't remember whether I had mascara on, until dark smudges are all over my tissue. barely had my face blotted as I walked out the door
handed her the co-pay check. Oh by the way, is there any way to remove my DSM diagnosis from the bill? I got my first bill and it's spelled out. Oh? she says, what does it say? I said. DSM-IV diagnosis ### DIAGNOSIS SPELLED OUT IN CAPS.
Oh, she says she will see if it's possible to just put the number. I said that's fine. I'm smart enough to look it up, but I don't like to be confronted with it so boldly every month.
...
And then I thanked her kindly and blotted my face again, hoping I didn't scare the crap out of her next appt. with my melting visage.
Posted by Daisym on November 15, 2006, at 0:38:25
In reply to I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers*, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 22:49:55
I keep an extra makeup kit in my car now. And I invested in some good waterproof mascara. Doesn't help with the runny nose though. I'm sure she has seen lots worse than smudged mascara. No worries there.
Does your mom already know about the abuse? Have you talked about it before, in anyway?
I have the exact same concerns you do. I also have this whole other scenario in my head too - I tell her and she says, "Oh honey. I'm so sorry that happened to you. But it was a long time ago. You are a smart, strong woman and look how well you've done despite this. So there is no need to dwell on any of that. Let it go. Move forward." These would be wise words too, if only it were that simple. But then the bind would be about needing therapy around all of this, instead of doing well inspite of it.
So I haven't told her. For lots of reasons. And my therapist and I have talked about this a million times. He doesn't believe it HAS to be the next step in healing, just like I don't have to figure out how to forgive my father. I think some people really believe that this is an important part of the journey but I think you have to be really ready for that step and you are awfully new to talking about all of this. So think about it carefully and go slow.
I'm not convinced yet that telling your whole family is always beneficial. So don't let anyone push you into anything. Walk your own path.
Posted by annierose on November 15, 2006, at 6:59:27
In reply to Re: I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers* » Lindenblüte, posted by Daisym on November 15, 2006, at 0:38:25
Your advice is filled with so much wisdom. I'm proud to be considered your friend.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 10:00:36
In reply to Re: I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers* » Lindenblüte, posted by Daisym on November 15, 2006, at 0:38:25
Hi Daisy,
I know that my Mom knows about the abuse, because she's the one who told my pediatrician when I was a baby. She's the one who had to take me to the doctor when my cornea got scratched from "wrestling" with my older brother. etc etc.no, she might not know about all of it, but she knows about the stuff that happened when I was a preschooler.
I'm not ready to tell the entire family. I told my husband, that's enough for me. It's just so hard with the holidays coming up. I will probably not see them, but that is suspicious too.
Oh well. I wish my mom and I could be close, but I'm not sure either one of us is ready for the consequences of such a conversation.
-Li
Posted by Daisym on November 15, 2006, at 11:51:24
In reply to Re: I think the Real Work has started CAbu trigger » Daisym, posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 10:00:36
I guess I want to ask what you think the consequences would be...would she think you were blaming her? ARE you blaming her? (You don't have to answer, of course.) It might help to write out what you'd want to say and take it in to therapy. It is a way to vent some of the anger and grief and then get a handle on it so you can survive the holidays.
How I feel about my mother is so complicated that I've often wondered if I could ever work with a female therapist on this stuff. I think that is what I'm sort of doing in this group - practicing "telling" women and being vulnerable with them. It just doesn't feel safe to me.
Yesterday I said something about hoping the longing would go away - the longing for closeness and for my mother to really "see me." It gets in the way of moving forward.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 13:45:09
In reply to Re: I think the Real Work has started CAbu trigger » Lindenblüte, posted by Daisym on November 15, 2006, at 11:51:24
Yes, I think it would be a good idea to write it out and take it to T.
What I wish I could say to mom, what I wish she could say to me. What I would say to mom, what would she say to me.
How I want her to be a part of my life in the future, and what I don't want her to get involved in in the future.
I can never talk to my dad about this. never. he would not be able to control his temper, and besides, he has dementia, and his memory is shot to hell anyways.
I could talk to my older brother about it, but he is a victim as much as he is a perpetrator. It took many months before I could tell him that I had mental illness. I'm glad I did, because he ended up having a lot of helpful suggestions, and he told me what medicine had helped him in the past.
We have never had a real conversation in my family about our shared mental illnesses. We shove things under the rug, and then pretend like the rug is smooth and clean. no shameful history, only a nice future.
Well, the extent to which I want to share my future with these people is related to the extent to which I can understand their actions in the past.
My T is a woman, but unlike you, I feel much more comfortable under these circumstances. My mother never criticized me for being weak. Working with a male T (and a male PhysicalT, for that matter) was incredibly anxiety-provoking. I always felt panic before my sessions, and when I left, I often felt like I had been spared some horrible punishment. Transference- the men who see me vulnerable are the men who will hurt me. But women don't bother me quite so much.
I'm going to write the letter this evening, after my meditation and buddhist lecture.
Deep breaths. Nobody can hurt me. Nobody will hurt me. repeat repeat repeat.
-Li
Posted by muffled on November 15, 2006, at 13:48:01
In reply to I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers*, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 22:49:55
Posted by SatinDoll on November 15, 2006, at 15:12:47
In reply to ((((((Li))))))) (nm) » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on November 15, 2006, at 13:48:01
Li,
Wow, what a hard session. But I think you started the real work several months ago when you admitted that yes you have been abused and no, it isn't your fault.
It is so hard for me to say that they won't hurt me, because my mom still can, I wish for her death, so I can live peacefully in mine. I know that sounds so cold, but my mom wasn't a mom, she was what my T calles "one scary psycho bitch".
Do you think you can work with this T? It seems kinda of soon to bring up this when she hasn't given you enough time to really know and trust her yet. But maybe you do, I just know I wouldn't have, but I have trust issues.
Take care of yourself LiHugs,
SatinDoll
Posted by Lost Soul on November 15, 2006, at 16:10:01
In reply to I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers*, posted by Lindenblüte on November 14, 2006, at 22:49:55
I am very very new here. I have a lot of similar issues. You hit the nail right on the head about how it would be scary to tell your mom incase she denied it or worse. I am mostly curious, though, as to what "CAbu triggers" means?
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 18:03:45
In reply to Re: I think the Real Work has started CAbu triggers* » Lindenblüte, posted by Lost Soul on November 15, 2006, at 16:10:01
hi Lost Soul,
thank you for posting to my thread. The reason why I wrote CAbu trigger on it is because some people are sensitive to Child Abuse issues. I don't want to write "My vacation story" as the title, and then the content is potentially triggering, and makes people feel ill or upset.If I had more space in the line, i would have written
***Child Abuse triggers***
but I didn't have enough letters.
I'm so sorry that you understand me when I'm scared to tell my mom. What if? yeah. It's not fair, is it?
Welcome, and maybe when you feel ready you can tell us a little bit more about you :)
-Li
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 15, 2006, at 18:29:53
In reply to Re: ((((((Li))))))), posted by SatinDoll on November 15, 2006, at 15:12:47
> Li,
>
> Wow, what a hard session. But I think you started the real work several months ago when you admitted that yes you have been abused and no, it isn't your fault.I know. I feel like I told my newT all of what i remembered. Since then, the door has shut again on many of those memories. I can only open the door when I am feeling really really scared. Those doors were open for some reason for about 6 weeks in August-September. And now they are shut, and I don't know if I want to open them again. What I will find inside? dust? a monster? overwhelming feelings that make me want to?
> It is so hard for me to say that they won't hurt me, because my mom still can, I wish for her death, so I can live peacefully in mine. I know that sounds so cold, but my mom wasn't a mom, she was what my T calles "one scary psycho bitch".
That's okay SatinDoll, you are not evil for having such wishes. I have wished similar things too, and I am no longer afraid to tell T or husband that I wish my dad would die. I think there is enough suffering, and if he were able to heal suffering-- well, it might be a different story. For now, though, he seems to be slipping in to old patterns. It was nice when he was really ill. He was as meek and gentle as a lamb. As sunny as a small child at the fair. Now the monster has found his mind again, and he is taking up residence. If dad were motivated to help himself, it would be different. As it is now, I think his life is over, and his body persists only to cause more suffering.
> Do you think you can work with this T?
yes
It seems kinda of soon to bring up this when she hasn't given you enough time to really know and trust her yet.I know, but I don't have a lot of time. When I'm finishing my dissertation, I'll be moving on. Less than a year. So, I go a few times a week, and I do the best I can. So far everything I've seen from her, and heard about her is very positive. I like her person, and I like her words. She is incredibly sensitive, and apologizes when she does things that I don't even notice- like when her voice was hoarse when she had a cold, or when she turned her back to me when she was looking up something on her calendar. She has given me no reason to fear her, or her reactions. So, yes-- I trust her, but I'm just having a hard time putting myself in a place of vulnerability in general. So, that's the lay of the land. I read her dissertation though, so I know that my gentle, sensitive T is not weak. She told me on the very first session, "Li, I'm here to hold your crap. Let me hold your crap" And that's where she stands. That line was kind of out of context at the time, but sometimes the things we learn don't always mean much at the time...
>> But maybe you do, I just know I wouldn't have, but I have trust issues.
we all do-- but the flip side of "trust issues" is that we have a "highly refined self-protective mechanism". I'm so sorry that your mother is still a dangerous presence in your life. Nevertheless, the things that you have accomplished, despite the terror, the instability etc-- well, those are just a bit more precious than gifts that come easily.
> Take care of yourself LiPart of taking care of myself is to clean up whatever is hiding behind those doors.
I'm doing 3 things to help me right now
1) healthier diet and more activity
2) music- I played violin for an hour last night. Songs with passion and pain. I let myself sing a little bit through my instrument. I played it- not practicing. And I feel safe when I can express pain in this way-- Tchaikovsky's pain. Don Juan's Pain. It's okay. I'm not alone. I can channel it.
3) spirituality- I'm going to a buddhist service in a little while, with meditation afterwards. This will be good for me, because it will be safe, and yet intimately reconnect me with my soul, and the soul of other people past and present and future. To feel part of a continuum- to wipe the mystery out of the experience and seek to understand it. Live in it, not try to control it.
>
> Hugs,
> SatinDolllikewise (((((satindoll)))))
If you have a chance, maybe the anthem of the evening is Tchaik. violin concerto, 2nd mvmt. yes.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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