Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 699190

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Re: day 4 Daisym

Posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02

In reply to Re: day 4 Daisym, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12

Daisy, that sounds kind of like what my therapist and I were talking about today. He said that it seemed like the little girl part of me was talking when I said that I didn't think I should like him so much. He's mentioned this little girl part before, but we didn't talk about it too much. I asked how I could make the little part go away, and he kind of made this gentle sort of noise, and then he said, "Well, from my perspective I don't think you'd want to do that. The goal is to make her feel safe enough so that she isn't scared anymore and she's more integrated with your adult self." It's kind of a weird concept for me since we never have discussed it before, but I remember you've talked about it a lot. He said next time we could maybe do some visualization about that. Do you find thinking that way makes things easier or harder? Or some of both?




Re: day 4 sunnydays

Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 23:48:04

In reply to Re: day 4 Daisym, posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02

Hi Sunny,

I'll start a new thread below to answer your question. I don't want to hijack this thread.


Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16

In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58

Just want you to know that I read this and I'm thinking about it. Have had a really busy couple of days, but I am thinking of you often and hoping you are getting through the weekend okay. Okay?


Re: day 5 (v. long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 4, 2006, at 21:27:05

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16

thank you therapygirl. i appreciate you saying that. it means a lot to know people are thinking of me.

sorry to hear youre so busy recently. I'm thinking of you too and hope you're okay.


Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58

In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58

>She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad.

Oh Wishstar, who is Anne? Who does she remind you of?
Instead of believing you are obsessing, could you maybe be remembering? Does the way you feel right now about Anne remind you of any other time in your life? There is Anne and the pain of what she did...but perhaps there is also a before-Anne and it is that before-Anne that is making the now-Anne resonate so strongly and painfully. If one of your therapists could help you find and talk about any possible connections between all the Annes in your life, maybe that could bring a kind of peace that is so absent now for you.

Annes are incomprehensible. Their power to hurt comes from the sheer number of them. That spiritual counsellor has never had an Anne in her life. That is why she can say she lives a fairytale and it is also why she was so completely unable to grasp the pain the group was in. How do you explain an Anne to someone who has never met one?


Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane

Posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58

Good point. Anne is absolutely, 100%, no doubt my parents. They mirror each other quite a bit. My parents led me to believe everything was great, I was supported, they loved me.. until I was essentially abandoned around 15 and realized my entire childhood, I had allowed myself to see things as I expected theyd be, not as they were. I expected that caring and support lay beneath their silence. It didnt. But talk about big abandonment issues now.... I have a hard time trusting the neutrality of therapy sometimes, because the neutrality that I trusted for so long as a child blew up in my face.

I trusted Anne's neutrality for about a year. And she was especially removed.. more than most therapists I've known. Very strong boundaries. We talked about that fear. In fact, we spent most of the spring talking about my fears with trusting her, fears of being vulnerable, etc. But then she basically abandoned me as well. I'm not sure if you've heard the whole story, but that pretty much sums it up. No termination except for a brief letter a month later that was really more hurtful than helpful.

So it absolutely stirs up the hurts from my childhood. The experience has made me become much more aware of how hurt I still am over what happened in my childhood. I have talked about this a lot in therapy... especially with Laurie, who I'm not seeing anymore but saw until recently. All she wanted to do for weeks was make cognitive connections between the two. I've talked about it a little with Ginny as well.

Maybe talking about the underlying abandonment is really what I need to do. Obviously it needs to be dealt with. But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts. I wonder if there is therapeutic value in that... or if the value is really just in talking about the underlying stuff. I guess in some ways, the refusal of my therapists to let me talk about what happened with her feels very devalidating. I definitely understand it on a cognitive level, but it's not helping the hurt. I guess what I want is just to be able to talk about it in therapy, cry my eyes out and talk about HER and what happened, not my parents.. and have them tell me that it's okay, it's okay to be hurting, what she did WAS wrong. I dont know why that would be so bad.

I'm not sure how I got so off course from your original comment. I guess you can tell I want to talk about it! Haha. Thank you for bringing that up though. Youre completely right and it helps to keep that in mind.


Re: day 5 (v. long)

Posted by Gee on November 5, 2006, at 14:13:00

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

Hey Wishingstar,

I've been reading what you've been writing when I can. You are so brave. I had a whole post in my head, and now I have time to write, do you think I can remember it? Nope. Keep going. At least you can be around people who will watch out for your best interest.



Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

>But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts.

I think that is a perfectly valid want. It is necessary to clearly see and label and mourn the hurts in the now as well as in the then. Present hurts may be amplified because of the past but they are not nullifed because of it. Completely dismissing your present pain as irrelevant because the roots of it may have started in the past is in itself a repetition of abandonment and belittlement.


day 6

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59

They switched my meds again. Now I'm off wellbutrin (it was making me sick) and on lithium. I dont want to take the lithium. I'm not bipolar. I havent decided whether or not I will... they gave me samples.

Overall I feel miserable. In a complete daze. I know that tomorrow I'll barely remember this entire evening.. not that ill forget, itll just seem unreal. thats what happens to me when it gets bad like this.

I said very little all day at partial. They check in with everyone in the morning.. I said I felt terrible.. that was about it. No questions directed at me during afternoon group except for whether or not the dr changed my meds. This is hard to admit, but I guess I feel a little ignored there lately. I guess they know I'm feeling blocked off, so I guess the Ts want to leave me alone.. but I just wish more than anything that theyd ASK. I was on the verge of tears all of the second group.. and I dont know what Id have said if the T asked how I was. Very possible broken down right there. I just feel ignored.I've felt this way since mid week last week but I havent wanted to admit it becuase its therapy, so its my responsibility to jump in. But regardless, it's how I feel. In morning group Randy said he figured I probably didnt want him to pick on me (direct attention on me) and I actually said that no, it was okay.. I just didnt know what to say. And there is this one girl there, K.. who is in a somewhat similar situation to me..and several times since I've been there hes taken her back into his office and theyve talked, hes calmed her down, etc... why doesnt he want to talk to ME? It's not because she was freaking out or anything. He did it today and she was sitting just fine, quietly, in group. I know what her situation is.. in fact, I know things she hasnt told the therapists.. so its not that theres a crisis I dont know about. Is it dumb of me to feel this way? I really struggle with feeling like im just an attention-seeker. Maybe I am.

I'm not going to partial tomorrow. We have 2 1-hour workshops in the mornings, and every Tues, both hour blocks are taken up by this one guy who does relaxation stuff. Hes good at it, but it'd be my 4th time hearing it, and for some reason, those exercises always seem to drop my mood a few notches. So I asked randy what to do and he said its okay if I dont come tomorrow. So I'll go back Wed. I also told him, again, that I feel just as bad as I did before I got to the hospital. He said we can talk Wed about whether partial is the right place for me right now. If partial isnt, what the hell is? Inpatient was NOT helpful.. in fact, it made me feel worse. Regular therapy obviously isnt working. I just feel so hopeless. Like there is nothing that will ever pull me out of this. No where I can go.

I'm just miserable. I just hurt so bad. I left partial today and cried my way home in the car. I know there isnt much left to say to this because I've posted this same stuff so many times.. so its okay if no one responds. But I guess it helps to know someone is at least reading it. So thanks. I'm trying.


Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by sunnydays on November 6, 2006, at 16:00:32

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37


You are doing a great job. Try taking the lithium - it doesn't mean you're bipolar, and even if you were, it wouldn't be a bad thing, I know wonderful sensitive people who are bipolar. It's all about your brain chemistry, not about you. Sometimes finding the right medication can make a world of difference when you feel this bad.

I am in awe of you - I am not exaggerating. That you are able to push yourself to go to partial when you are feeling that bad really says something about your internal strength. But I get it that you don't want to have to be strong, you want someone to fix it for you.

Keep trying. It will get better eventually. I'm proud of you.



Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by MidnightBlue on November 6, 2006, at 16:43:45

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

Try the lithium. I was offered it and I am 100% unipolar. I didn't take it, but that is a different story. It conflicted with one of my other meds.

Why inpatient and why might it help? As an inpatient they can rapidly change your meds and watch closely how you are doing. That might be a reason to go inpatient again for a short time. If you are very depressed you CAN'T force yourself to be part of a group. And you can't participate well in any therapy.

You aren't failing, you just need more help. Hang in there.



Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 6, 2006, at 17:02:40

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

I'm sorry you still feel so awful, WS. I wish I knew what would help. Unfortunately, my experience with depression is that you just have to try to outlast the worst of it, and it appears to me that you are in the worst of it right now.

I do think you should share with Randy that you are feeling ignored. My memory of your first time in partial is not that the group therapy and workshops were so helpful, but that Randy himself was helpful. So if there's a way to get more one-on-one time with him, I think that would be good. When I was hospitalized (twice during my bad year), the only helpful thing they offered was recreational therapy. Now, I am not in any way a jock, but somehow heading outside the hospital and playing badminton helped me more than anything else. I told that to the rec therapist and she made sure that we got together at least once/day. Sometimes it was most of the group, sometimes it was the two of us and sometimes it was 3 or 4. And it wasn't that I was pouring my heart out to her, because I didn't. I don't know why it worked, but it did. I realize they probably don't offer rec. therapy in partial, so I'm not suggesting that. I just want you to know that sometimes there is something that will help and it's not always the obvious thing. Maybe for me it was that it gave me a break from myself and my suicidal ideation in a way talk therapy didn't.

I've also been thinking about your conversation with Ginny last week about being overly reliant on therapy. I wonder if just the mere fact that she's encouraging you to expand your support base feels like a criticism to you because it is getting filtered through the depression? Just something to think about. I think it's possible Ginny could want you to develop an outside support system AND not think you are overly reliant on therapy. Whatever you think, I think you should discuss this with her some more, along with your grief over the Anne situation. Sometime when I have the time and when I'm not afraid of boring you to tears, I'll share my T horror story, okay? Just so you know you can get through it.



Re: day 6 sunnydays

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 17:20:03

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by sunnydays on November 6, 2006, at 16:00:32

I think I am going to at least try the lithium. I talked to Ginny tonight and she encouraged me to try it to, so I think I will. It's not the idea of being bipolar I have a problem with at all.. I definitely dont think its a bad thing (any more than having any mental illness is a bad thing). I just know it isnt what I have. Sometimes I wish I did.. I could use some "ups" in with the "lows".. but of course I know it isnt as good as it sounds. Just a different set of issues.

Thank you for the compliment. That really means a lot to me. I dont feel like there is any reason to be impressed or feel positively about anything I'm doing right now.. in some ways I do feel like I'm helpless and failing. But you're right, I'm trying. It's just so hard. Thank you for saying that.


Re: day 6 MidnightBlue

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 17:27:54

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on November 6, 2006, at 16:43:45

I was just in inpatient a little over a week ago, and I really, really hated it. I felt worse there then I think I probably would have felt at home. Maybe it was just the unit I was on, but all the groups were aimed at lower-functioning people who have a hard time expressing things. I really just wanted someone to talk to but that wasnt really available there. I just sat around staring at the walls most of the time, bored out of my mind, going deeper and deeper into the depression. I hated the feeling of all the restirctions - no strngs, no dental floss, etc. It made me feel helpless and alone, in a weird way. I guess I felt like the only real benefit of that unit, at least for me, was to keep me safe. That was it. They did change my meds while I was there (to the wellbutrin, which I just stopped), but it takes so long for anti-depressants to work, there is really no opporunity to see if theyre working until later on. I guess if I find that I cant keep myself safe at home I might consider going back, but until I'm on that brink, I dont think I will. I'm miserable, and suicidal, but not immenintely dangeorus to myself at this moment. I hope that makes sense.

I'm supposed to talk to Randy on Wed about whether partial is the right place for me. But what is the other option? I called Ginny tonight out of desperation and she said maybe he is thinking of another program somewhere else. I live somewhat close to DC (2 hours) and there is every program in the world up there. Maybe anotehr program would be more helpful? I dont know. Right now I'm not sure any program will be helpful until these meds (or something else) lifts me up a little bit.

Thank you for understanding how hard it is to participate in group. I do feel like I'm failing in some ways... why cant I just talk? Is it my fault that it's not helping, since Im not talking? But you're right. It isnt on purpose, and I'm trying the best I can.. but I just cant. We talked about patterns in our past romantic relationships today and even though I know what my pattern is, I didnt say it, because it just felt like why bother? It would take too much energy to verbalize it and it just seems so pointless. Thank you for understanding. That helps me to keep it in perspective too.


Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 15:28:05

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 6, 2006, at 17:02:40

I'm sorry therapygirl, somehow I missed seeing your response yesterday. I guess you must have posted it as I was writing the other responses and I just didnt see it.

I do know what you mean about certain things helping, like your recreational therapy. I do think more one-on-one time would help, but I guess I just dont think I can ask for it. The program doesnt really include that. Last time I was there, I was acutely upset about anne and he took me into his office alone a few times.. but that was special. It's not really something I can/should expect. I just wish I had it. I dont understand why K gets it so much and never me. That is SO hard for me to type... it feels so selfish. Yesterday I walked past his office mid-day going to the group room and he called my name, but when I stopped, he just asked me to ask another person in the group to go down to his office. I have no idea what it was about though.

I guess I just feel like it's my own fault if I feel ignored. If I jumped in during group and said what I wanted to say, someone would likely listen. But its hard because I hate to draw the attention off of someone else and change the topic like that. When I do have something to contribute to the conversation the entire group is having I will say it, but really the things I need to talk about arnet coming up, and it just isnt fair for me to change the group like that. Everyone else is engaged in these conversations... and it's not all about me. It's about what's good for the group. But even though I understand that logically, I still feel sad and ignored. And alone there.

You made a good point regarding Ginny and expanding my support base. I think you might be right. I certainly understand the value of having support outside in ADDITION to therapy. But I cant help but feel like every time they push and bring that up, theyre pushing me away and saying I need to rely more on other things. Over-reliant on therapy. That was the word they used in that workshop. It wasnt directed at me personally, but still. I do need to talk to Ginny about this. She hasnt really said anything much that makes me feel this way with her.. its mostly things Randy, Laurie and others have said that I'm extending to my relationship with Ginny. Because if it's true with my other therapeutic relationships, I'm sure its true with Ginny too.

I dont know how to talk about Anne. No one wants me to do. Ginny doesnt actually stop me like Laurie will, but I can still feel the pull away from it. Like a constant attempt to get the conversation to a different place.

Until I dropped out of grad school, I was working as a mentor for some undergrads. The director of the program knows what happened with anne, and I guess mentioned it to a counselor at the university counseling center who she is frends with. Apparently this woman reacted immediately saying that it was unethical, terrible, etc. I know this woman a little just from working at the center (I used to be an intern), so after getting the director of my mentorship programs permission, I emailed the counselor to ask if I could come speak with her about it. Not for any type of therapy, just one brief meeting to tell what happened and get a reaction from someone who is more of an objective outsider and doesnt know my entire life story. Of course my life story does play into what happened and probably brought up some countertransference issues that affected how it played out (at least thats what ive concluded), but I think it'd help me to hear someone - a therapist - agree with me that it was bad and tell me its okay to be hurt. I dont expect her to make me feel better directly, because I have a therapist and obviously this woman isnt her, but I think the indirect effects of a conversation like that could be big for me. She hasnt gotten back to me yet but we'll see. At the very least, if I do see her, I want Anne's name taken off the list of referrals that the counseling center gives to students they cannot treat. That's where I got her name originally. It makes me so mad at myself that I'm still hung up on this.

And dont worry, it wouldnt bore me at all to hear your horror story. If you ever feel like sharing it, I'd be happy to hear it. It does help to know I'm not the only one.

Thanks. :)


Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:05:21

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 15:28:05

No need to apologize for the delayed response -- I actually figured out that we were online at the same time last night.

Here's what I think about what you wrote today: the depression is making it impossible for you to ask for what you need, yet the only way you have a chance of getting it is to ask for it. It's a catch 22, all caused by the depression. From what you've said about Randy, I cannot imagine he would turn you down if you asked for a little one-on-one time with him. I think he did it for you the first time you were in partial and I think he's doing it now for K. If you ask, I think he will do what he can. Does that mean I think he'll clear his schedule and spend 6 hours with you? No. But I don't think that's what you're asking for. It is pretty clear that you think any small thing you ask for is too much. I understand that because I've been there. BUT IT ISN'T TOO MUCH. You're worth it and you deserve it. The same thing goes for the group -- just because it appears to you that they are all benefitting from the discussions they're having and that your stuff somehow doesn't fit in with theirs doesn't make it true. That's the depression talking. I believe the group would benefit from your experiences -- just like here on Babble. We don't all have the same issues, but that doesn't mean we can't support and help each other. So as hard as I know it is, I hope you will think about speaking up. I know for sure you won't get what you need if you don't ask, so you don't have much to lose, right?

Thank you for being interested in my T horror story. I'll try to post it in the next couple of days, okay? It is very similar to yours, which is I think why your story resonates so much with me (and why I appear to be so pushy).

Take care of yourself, okay? You're doing good stuff.


Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 20:35:39

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:05:21

I guess you're right. I mean, there's some tiny part (.001%?) of me that knows you're right.

But I'm having such a hard time believing it. Even though what youre saying sounds logical, I have a million "but...."s in my head. And they feel so real. I dont think that I do deserve time to talk about what I want to talk about if its different from what the rest of the group wants to talk about. I want them to feel better and I know theyd be supportive if I tried to talk more, but it certainly wouldnt help anyone feel better. That sounds silly even to me, because of course I need to worry about how I feel too.. not just what makes them feel better. But I cant get past it. On one level, I dont feel like I deserve any more than what I'm getting.

I'm afraid that there is something to lose by speaking up or by asking for what I need. There is the possibility that it could be rejected or refused. And I dont think I could handle that right now. Laurie just disappeared on me in the last week or so.. I called her to say I didnt need to come back anymore because I'll be seeing Ginny and for her to call me.. and nothing. It wasnt an angry call, or passive-aggressive, or anything. Anyway.. the safety of this is almost better than the possibility of being rejected again. But you're right, it certainly isnt going to get better either until I ask for what I need. And that's where the hopeslessness comes in. I just want to die. I feel so incredibly stuck and I just dont thnik there's any way out. I know that's the depression talking. But its true. I cant ask for what I need, so I'm never going to get it, so I'm not going to feel better. It's a vicious cycle that I'm holding in, I know. But there's just no way out that feels possible right now.

Just for the record, you dont feel pushy at all to me. I appreciate everything you've said so far. It has given me some good things to think about, even if I'm still too afraid to take any productive action. I'll watch for your T story.. but take your time. I know youre busy so whenever you get to it. But I'll be interested to read it. Thanks for sharing.


Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 21:01:50

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 20:35:39

Boy, do I know this place you're in. I *know* how risky it feels to ask for what you need. So maybe start with something really, really small so there's not much chance you'll be rejected. Like I can't imagine that the group would reject your talking about what's going on with you. And no matter what the depression is telling you, I also can't imagine that your story won't help at least one other person there (and frankly I'd be surprised if it didn't help most or all of them).

Just think about trying baby steps until you feel stronger. Okay? Imagine that I'm standing or sitting beside you holding your hand, whispering over and over, "You are allowed to ask for what you need and you deserve to get it."



crazy 2 days.. will respond soon (nm)

Posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 16:32:36

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 21:01:50


Re: Must be something in the air -- me, too (nm) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 9, 2006, at 18:38:49

In reply to crazy 2 days.. will respond soon (nm), posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 16:32:36


Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 19:13:11

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 21:01:50

Something in the air indeed.. ugh. Sorry to hear things have been crazy for you too. I've just been so busy and crashing hard in my free moments. But here I am now.

I have to tell you, when I first read the part of your post where you said to picture you holding my hand saying I deserve etc etc... I just lost it. I cried for a good 10 minutes. For some reason, it just struck such a nerve in me. And the next day at partial I did try to keep that in mind.. but since it was my last day, I didnt make any big attempts to say much.. no reason to with no time left I guess. But that did help me quite a bit. I think what you described is just EXACTLY what I want and need right now from someone.

I'll make a post in a minute about my last day. But thank you again.


Day 7 - my last day

Posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 19:24:49

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 21:01:50

Yesterday was my last day of partial. I've been really busy and feeling very sad since then so I'm just now able to post about it.

There isnt a lot to say. It went pretty much like all the other days. I did feel a little more of a connection with Randy - of course on the last day, right? He was calling me "crazy banana person" because I was wearing socks with monkeys and bananas on them... and the attention felt so good. I guess it made me feel like he realized I was there, if that makes any sense.

I spend most of afternoon group on the verge of tears but held it back. After that ended, I went in Randys office to do the discharge paperwork and broke down. He asked me to rate my mood on a scale from 1-10 for the paperwork (its a pre-post comparison) and I started crying and couldnt answer him. I think it was just the fact that I was feeling so incredibly sad and was leaving partial knowing that it hadnt worked and I was on my own again. He stood up to give me a hug and said come here, and I refused, so he came and sat next to me on the couch. He put one arm around me and rubbed my back and the other hand on my hands and I just cried. I know he talked, but I'm not even sure what he said. I know he said that I'd be able to open up again and not to worry, he'd seen it happen before for me, etc etc... He also told me to come back and visit him. I dont know if he really meant that or just said it, but I may do it in a few weeks or so. We'll see. He has this little bowl of colored rocks that have words written on them (hope, believe, love, etc) and he gives everyone one when they get discharged. Last time I chose "hope". Yesterday I told him I just couldnt connect to any of them and for him to choose. He gave me "believe" and he told me he wants me to hang on to it. I'm almost in tears even typing about it. Just so many emotions tied up in this.

So I'm done with partial now. Obviously it wasnt the same experience as last time. I saw Ginny this morning and fought tears most of the hour. I think I might make a post about it below after I think it out more.. it had to do with Anne. Ginny and Anne talked. But I'm glad I have her (Ginny of course). I think it'll work out.

I'm just terrified I'm going to feel like this forever. I spoke to Laurie on the phone today and she encouraged me to go back to inpatient, but I told her no way. There is really no "treatment" there - its just a holding place. And I HATED it. Not again. I guess I'm just going to try this twice a week thing with Ginny (Ive always done once a week in the past) and see.

I think I'm going to send Randy a thank you card. I wanted to do it last time, but never did. Even though it didnt really help this time, that wasnt his fault. He really is a good, caring person and a good counselor.


Re: Day 7 - my last day wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 10, 2006, at 16:36:19

In reply to Day 7 - my last day, posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 19:24:49

I'm so sorry you didn't get more out of partial this time. I am glad that you have the connections you have with Randy and Ginny, though. And I definitely think you should take Randy up on his offer to visit. I also like your idea about sending him a little thank you note. Anything you can do to stay connected to people during the worst of the depression will help, I believe.

I'll be interested to hear about your Anne session with Ginny when you get a chance.

I also understand the fear that this will last forever. For me, it lasted one solid year (and I'm talking about the worst part of depression with the non-stop suicidal ideation). Then one day, I woke up and realized I didn't need to count the hours until bedtime (where I felt safe) and wasn't obsessed with doing myself in. I walked on tiptoes for at least 6 months after that, expecting it to come roaring back, but I held my own. I've had some problems with depression since then, but nothing like that year. I always refer to it as my lost year.

Wish I could do something more to help.


Re: My T horror story LONG ***Triggers*** wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 10, 2006, at 17:04:54

In reply to Day 7 - my last day, posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 19:24:49

Okay, here it is. I'll make it as short as possible, but it's a long story.

I was first hospitalized in June of my lost year. My T (the one I've been seeing for 21 years) urged me to go, was my advocate with the pdoc I'd been seeing and even came and picked me up and drove me to the hospital, where she spent several hours with me while they processed my admission. I was in bad, bad shape. I stayed 8 days and went home on new meds, but nothing really changed.

Then things got worse. They were constantly fiddling with my meds -- at one point I was on Lithium, several antipsychotics, 2 different antidepressants, etc. None of it helped and I just gor worse and worse and worse. I walked out of several T appts. because I just felt too hopeless to sit there. In Sept. of that year we had a pretty bad hurricane for us (we're inland) and my T's house had 8 trees fall on top of it, just a couple of weeks before closing. The only way the sale would go through was to stick to the original closing date, so she was under a lot of stress for several months around that (they had to move into a small apartment until their new house was built). She later admitted that she hadn't been all the way there in therapy; it was unfortunate for me, because just when I needed her to advocate for me, she wasn't available. At any rate, I walked out in late Sept. or early Oct. and told her I was done.

So I went to another T -- this is the woman I was first referred to my senior year in college. She saw me for one session, then called and told me it wouldn't work out because she had dated the father of the guy I was heartbroken over at the time. I made her see me one more time, failed to change her mind and she sent me to my current T. I also saw her for group in the early 90s, which started out okay and ended in disaster, as most things she's connected with do. Towards the end of the group, we were spending the entire hour and a half every week doing individual therapy with one member while the rest of us sat there and twiddled our thumbs. No one else got any attention, no one else got to say anything. I finally just stood up and said, "I feel bad that you are in such a crisis, but I can't afford to pay for your individual therapy." It really wasn't her fault -- the co-Ts just completely mismanaged the group.

Not having learned my lesson, I returned to this woman after I left my good T. Can you tell that I enjoy beating my head against a brick wall? So I saw her for several weeks, during which I was increasingly suicidal. It was really, really, really bad. So ultimately I refused to make another appt. with her (because I was planning to be dead before then). I didn't tell her I was going to kill myself, I just refused to make the appt. Her response was to send the police to my apartment. I had to wait 2 hours with 2 male officers for a female officer to come and "escort" me to the hospital. Then we got out in the yard (where all the neighbors were standing because 3 cop cars had been outside my house for hours at that point), and she turned to me and said, "Oh, I forgot to pat you down." I said, "You're kidding right. I haven't done anything wrong and you're all overreacting." (That was my story and I was sticking to it.) She said it was "policy." So in front of all my neighbors, she patted me down, as if I was being arrested. Don't even get me started on that.

At any rate, you can imagine how cooperative I was in the hospital. I stayed in my room most of the time, refusing to go to group. They made me meet with the pdoc and with the social worker. Then one afternoon, probably 6 or so days into the hospitalization, another patient came and got me and said there was a phone call on the hall phone. I went to the phone, and it was Idiot T, telling me that she had a "family crisis" and would not be able to be my T anymore. Now keep in mind that SHE IS THE ONE who sent me to the hospital and she knew I couldn't get out without a T. I was so furious and hopeless and hurt that I just couldn't say anything to her. I hung the phone up, returned to my room, walked into the bathroom and spent an hour sitting on the floor of the bathroom trying to figure out how to hang myself with a shower curtain. It was the worst hour of my life, and believe me when I tell you I've had a few. After an hour, one of the staff came and got me to go meet with the pdoc. I walked into the office and there he sat with the social worker. It was obvious from what he said that he had known that phone call was coming and none of them apparently thought that was a damaging thing to do to me. I let him talk for 5 minutes before I stood up and said, "I can't do this and I won't do it. You do what you want to me, I just don't care. But I'll be d*mned if I'm going to sit here for this."

I waited a couple days more and then called my good T and left her a voice mail asking if she would take me back because I couldn't get out of the hospital without a T and I was desperate to get out. Just warms your heart, doesn't it? I was so beyond crying at that point, it wasn't funny. But she did take me back, which allowed me to get out after 11 days. A month later, I stopped seeing her again, but this time I wrote her a letter afterwards and explained to her that I wasn't mad at her, no matter how it seemed, but that I believed I was feeling too hopeless to get anything out of therapy. So I walked away. A couple of weeks after that, I got mad at Pdoc for forgetting, again, to call in a refill for drugs I didn't want to take in the first place. Six weeks to the day after I stopped taking all those drugs, the depression lifted. It has never been that bad for that long since. I don't recommend this approach for most people, but those kinds of drugs doing bad things to my brain chemistry.

I didn't see good T regularly for 6 years afterwards, but we did have lunch occasionally (because I didn't want to go anywhere near her office) the first couple of years and then I started going in for "booster" sessions a couple of times a year for several years. Then I started seeing her once or twice a month four years ago, and every week three years ago (after my former boss committed suicide).

I haven't seen or spoken with Idiot T since that phone call at the hospital. I did get a bill from the city for $75 for the police taking me to the hospital. At the time, I owed several thousand dollars to the hospital, which took me YEARS to pay off, and I just refused to pay for that humiliation. So I wrote Idiot T a letter, explaining how humiliating that was and how she had other options she didn't use and "invited" her to pay the bill. I never heard back from her, but I didn't get another bill from the city either.

That's all. Feel free to ask questions if you want. But now you see how much we have in common. I hope we can soon add in common that we found one good T to stand by us.


Hope you're okay...(((((((WishingStar)))))) (nm)

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 12, 2006, at 10:56:28

In reply to Day 7 - my last day, posted by wishingstar on November 9, 2006, at 19:24:49

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