Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 699190

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Re: day 4 TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57

In reply to Re: day 4 wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 2, 2006, at 21:42:03

The workshop wasnt supposed to be about overreliance on therapy. The woman who lead it is actually one of my favorites at the center. The workshop was on relationships, and she opened it up for discussion. One man brought up relationships with therapists and it went from there. She talked about forming support networks outside therapy, etc... it wasnt nearly as bad as I made it sound. I just focused in on the over-reliance part because it's a huge fear I have. Randy chooses the workshops.. but he's very concerned about the quality of them. He said the spiritual counselor woman wont be coming back after yesterdays "event".

Shut down mode is exactly it. How do you take steps to get out of it? I feel like I'll just be stuck here forever. What do you do when even the hospital doesnt help? Ugh.

 

Re: day 4

Posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24

In reply to Re: day 4 MidnightBlue, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 21:47:10

Wishingstar,

Maybe they need to up your dose? I eventually went to 450 mg a day on Wellbutrin. If the hospital isn't helping, than maybe it will just take time. And maybe the counseling/groups you are getting are not the right kind for you right now.

Hugs,
Midnightblue

 

Re: day 4 wishingstar

Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52

In reply to Re: day 4 TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57

I've been following your posts and I must say you are working very hard to feel better.

I think part of what helps to get out of shut down mode is to allow yourself to need therapy, the program and the various therapists right now. You can worry about the dependency later. If you allow yourself to give words to how sad, overwhelmed and despairing you feel, the shut down will give way to the words. My therapist calls it pulling threads. You just start and keep saying what comes into your head, even if it doesn't make sense at the time. And you have such high expectations for therapy right now, and such justifiable fear. I think periods of silence are to be expected.

What helps me is to write, to talk about what I've written and/or to talk about what I posted and what the responses are. He is always interested and asks questions that lead us out of stuck and down the road again.

Good Luck tomorrow.

 

Re: day 4 wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45

In reply to Re: day 4 TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 2, 2006, at 22:20:57

Thanks for the additional info. about the workshop. That doesn't sound as bad as I feared. Still, I can see how it tapped into your fears. But reliance on therapy during a difficult time is not the same as over-reliance.

Shut down is awful. The only way I know how to get through it is to try to make yourself say something, anything. When I'm in shutdown mode, the longer I sit in silence in my T's office, the worse it is. If I can make myself start the conversation, then I can usually (not always) push through to the other side.

 

Re: day 4 MidnightBlue

Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:47:04

In reply to Re: day 4, posted by MidnightBlue on November 2, 2006, at 23:38:24

They just switched my dose from 150 to 300.. I was only on 150 for about a week but my dr didnt think 150 would help given my experiences with other meds. I started getting these weird feelings every morning, especially right after I wake up.. almost like someone zapping me with electricity. It wasnt painful, just.. odd and scary. I talked to the dr today and he said stop taking it altogether. So I'm back to square 1 with meds. That was the 6th med that hasnt worked for me.. I hate this guessing game! Hopefully the next will work...

 

Re: day 4 Daisym

Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 15:49:43

In reply to Re: day 4 wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52

Thanks Daisy.

I talked to one of the therapists at partial about this today. I'll make a seperate post about it in a minute, so check that out if youre interested. Interestingly, the thing I zoned in on most from your post was the "such high expectations for therapy" bit. I know I'm highly, highly sensitive right now to being needy and I think thats why. I know you didnt mean it as a bad thing, but I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by that? Expecting things to change too quickly maybe?

 

day 5 (v. long)

Posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58

In reply to Re: day 4 wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 3, 2006, at 7:12:45

Another very hard, not terribly productive day.

I didnt see Randy at all today. Sandy, another therapist at the center, led the groups instead.. I guess he was busy getting ready for some conference. I really like Sandy a lot.. she is very bubbly and happy but not in a frustrating way. She is very concerned and her caring is really obvious.

Most of the day went like yesterday. I didnt say a lot. Morning group I wanted to talk, but I didnt really get asked how I was doing and I didnt feel like there was a good time to jump in without directing the attention off someone else, and I didnt want to do that. So I was mostly quiet. I spend the latter part of that group fighting back tears.. I'm not sure why. I was just feeling so sad, so alone, so sick of myself, so hopeless. Those arent new feelings for me, but the intensity is growing.

The workshops went similarly. The first was on relaxation, and we got to lay on the floor and listen to one of those relaxation tapes. Anxiety is not something I generally struggle with, but it was pretty nice anyway. Always good to relax. The second was about wellness.. all the things we do good for ourselves, what we could incorporate back into our lives that we enjoy, etc. The third was on nutrition and healthy eating. All of them were fine but I guess I was just feeling so depressed and withdrawn that nothing any of them said really reached me on a real level.

Sandy led afternoon group as well. I talked more that I had been. I told them that I'm feeling even worse now than I was before I started partial. It was a statement I'd made before, but it got her attention. I told her I was considering not coming back on Monday because I just cant connect with anything being done in partial right now. Randy always says that any step towards our goals is a step closer to being there, even if you cant see that youre any closer.. but I'm having a hard time with that. Sandy had a few people tell me why they thought I should stay, but I still dont know. It just seems pointless. The more I go and am not able to open up (and obviously not be heard), the worse I feel. I was on the verge of tears for the entire group. It's just so hard.

After group ended, everyone left and I asked Sandy about whether or not to schedule with Ginny on Tues. We talked in the lobby for a few minutes and then as I was going to leave, she asked if I needed a hug. I said yes and broke down, right there in the middle of the lobby with all these people around. I started crying and told her that it's just so hard. That there are just too many people there for me to open up.. and I can give little pieces in group, but it's so much bigger than that.. I just cant share how big it really is. I guess I made enough of a scene in the lobby because the receptionist had her take me back into the group room. We talked for maybe 15 min. I told her how it seems like the second I start opening up and being vulnerable and relying on the therapist for support, they tell me I'm being over-reliant on therapy. I'm not a person who calls often outside of sessions, it's all in-session stuff. So I told her that is why I'm putting up these walls. It feels like I cant talk without being wrong. She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad. In fact typing about her is bringing me to tears again right now. Sandy actually offered to see me, if I wanted her to... but I told her that no, I think Ginny is good and I want to see where that goes.. but she said she's always there if I decide I need her. But truly, I got the same feeling/reaction from Ginny yesterday... the "you're relying on therapy too much" feeling when I mentioned how I'd gotten that in partial. That means it must be true, because I really do think Ginny is good. But what's the other option? I know they want me to have outside support, and of course thats important. But I just dont feel like I can really open up. Because the second I do, I'm relying too much on it. Talking to Sandy and finally breaking down really felt good.. I felt like she heard the dilemma I was in, regardless of her own feelings on it. She heard how stuck I'm feeling and how bad I'm feeling. She said it sounds like I just need a huge teddy bear and a cozy blanket. Shes right.

Sandy made me promise I'd go back on Monday so I guess I'm going. I'm sure she'll tell Randy what all I said, but I still dont think I'll really be able to open up in group. We'll see I guess. It's just too many people and too overwhelming right now. I just need one person I can sit and cry with and not feel bad about taking up time for others, etc.

They also took me off my meds (wellbutrin) today. So back to the drawing board. I was getting these weird electric shock-type feelings.. not painful, just weird and scary. I was supposed to see the doctor today but he ran out of time so he just said to stop taking the wellbutrin and we'll figure out something new on Monday. That was meds failure #6. That doesnt help the feelings of hopelessness, that's for sure. So I guess I have to go back on Monday for that, if nothing else.

One girl from partial called me yesterday to talk, and I called her back... which was VERY hard for me. I isolate myself almost all the time. She just called again and I ignored it.. but I'm going to try hard to get myself to call her back tonight.

I just want to hide and cry and cry and cry. I imagine I'll be in tears on and off most of the rest of the night. I guess it's good to let it out. This just sucks.

 

Re: day 4 Daisym

Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12

In reply to Re: day 4 wishingstar, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 0:44:52

Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I certainly didn't mean it as a bad thing, or as a criticism. What I meant was, you need therapy to be soothing and safe right now, and you need it to make you feel better. And you've had too many experiences lately of therapy making you feel worse. But so far, with this new therapist, there is hope that she won't crash things. But that fear -- that the wrong thing could be said and you would feel worse -- and that expectation --- that therapy is a place to heal -- combine to create silence. There is nothing wrong with having high expectations for therapy - who doesn't want to feel better?

This past week I was telling my therapist that I just wanted to feel better. I said I know he is supposed to help me look at my old patterns and I'm supposed to do the work, but really, I just wanted him to make me feel better. He stopped me and said not to beat myself up for wanting that. That EVERYONE wants their therapist to make them feel better, no matter what they say. The adult in charge knows it takes time and takes work. The hurting little girl just wants him to be magic.

I think believing in magic is as important as being realistic about the time and work. Some weeks it is more important.

 

Re: day 4 Daisym

Posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02

In reply to Re: day 4 Daisym, posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 16:26:12

Daisy, that sounds kind of like what my therapist and I were talking about today. He said that it seemed like the little girl part of me was talking when I said that I didn't think I should like him so much. He's mentioned this little girl part before, but we didn't talk about it too much. I asked how I could make the little part go away, and he kind of made this gentle sort of noise, and then he said, "Well, from my perspective I don't think you'd want to do that. The goal is to make her feel safe enough so that she isn't scared anymore and she's more integrated with your adult self." It's kind of a weird concept for me since we never have discussed it before, but I remember you've talked about it a lot. He said next time we could maybe do some visualization about that. Do you find thinking that way makes things easier or harder? Or some of both?

thanks,

sunnydays

 

Re: day 4 sunnydays

Posted by Daisym on November 3, 2006, at 23:48:04

In reply to Re: day 4 Daisym, posted by sunnydays on November 3, 2006, at 17:02:02

Hi Sunny,

I'll start a new thread below to answer your question. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Daisy

 

Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16

In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58

Just want you to know that I read this and I'm thinking about it. Have had a really busy couple of days, but I am thinking of you often and hoping you are getting through the weekend okay. Okay?

 

Re: day 5 (v. long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 4, 2006, at 21:27:05

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 4, 2006, at 19:36:16

thank you therapygirl. i appreciate you saying that. it means a lot to know people are thinking of me.

sorry to hear youre so busy recently. I'm thinking of you too and hope you're okay.

 

Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58

In reply to day 5 (v. long), posted by wishingstar on November 3, 2006, at 16:12:58

>She knows what happened with Anne... and I told her how no one (randy included) really lets me talk about it because they all say I'm focusing too much on it, obsessing, etc. At that point I broke down again.. I'd been crying some the whole time but I mean gasping sobs-type crying. She said it sounds like I need to talk about it. I wish I felt like I could... but no one wants me to. They all just want me to be over it. Move on. But I cant. What Anne did still hurts SO bad.


Oh Wishstar, who is Anne? Who does she remind you of?
Instead of believing you are obsessing, could you maybe be remembering? Does the way you feel right now about Anne remind you of any other time in your life? There is Anne and the pain of what she did...but perhaps there is also a before-Anne and it is that before-Anne that is making the now-Anne resonate so strongly and painfully. If one of your therapists could help you find and talk about any possible connections between all the Annes in your life, maybe that could bring a kind of peace that is so absent now for you.

Annes are incomprehensible. Their power to hurt comes from the sheer number of them. That spiritual counsellor has never had an Anne in her life. That is why she can say she lives a fairytale and it is also why she was so completely unable to grasp the pain the group was in. How do you explain an Anne to someone who has never met one?

 

Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane

Posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 0:55:58

Good point. Anne is absolutely, 100%, no doubt my parents. They mirror each other quite a bit. My parents led me to believe everything was great, I was supported, they loved me.. until I was essentially abandoned around 15 and realized my entire childhood, I had allowed myself to see things as I expected theyd be, not as they were. I expected that caring and support lay beneath their silence. It didnt. But talk about big abandonment issues now.... I have a hard time trusting the neutrality of therapy sometimes, because the neutrality that I trusted for so long as a child blew up in my face.

I trusted Anne's neutrality for about a year. And she was especially removed.. more than most therapists I've known. Very strong boundaries. We talked about that fear. In fact, we spent most of the spring talking about my fears with trusting her, fears of being vulnerable, etc. But then she basically abandoned me as well. I'm not sure if you've heard the whole story, but that pretty much sums it up. No termination except for a brief letter a month later that was really more hurtful than helpful.

So it absolutely stirs up the hurts from my childhood. The experience has made me become much more aware of how hurt I still am over what happened in my childhood. I have talked about this a lot in therapy... especially with Laurie, who I'm not seeing anymore but saw until recently. All she wanted to do for weeks was make cognitive connections between the two. I've talked about it a little with Ginny as well.

Maybe talking about the underlying abandonment is really what I need to do. Obviously it needs to be dealt with. But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts. I wonder if there is therapeutic value in that... or if the value is really just in talking about the underlying stuff. I guess in some ways, the refusal of my therapists to let me talk about what happened with her feels very devalidating. I definitely understand it on a cognitive level, but it's not helping the hurt. I guess what I want is just to be able to talk about it in therapy, cry my eyes out and talk about HER and what happened, not my parents.. and have them tell me that it's okay, it's okay to be hurting, what she did WAS wrong. I dont know why that would be so bad.


I'm not sure how I got so off course from your original comment. I guess you can tell I want to talk about it! Haha. Thank you for bringing that up though. Youre completely right and it helps to keep that in mind.

 

Re: day 5 (v. long)

Posted by Gee on November 5, 2006, at 14:13:00

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

Hey Wishingstar,

I've been reading what you've been writing when I can. You are so brave. I had a whole post in my head, and now I have time to write, do you think I can remember it? Nope. Keep going. At least you can be around people who will watch out for your best interest.

Gee

 

Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar

Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) toojane, posted by wishingstar on November 5, 2006, at 10:44:22

>But I guess I just want someone (other than you all here) to let me talk about HER for a little while. One session. How badly SHE hurt me. What she did was wrong, regardless of my past hurts.


I think that is a perfectly valid want. It is necessary to clearly see and label and mourn the hurts in the now as well as in the then. Present hurts may be amplified because of the past but they are not nullifed because of it. Completely dismissing your present pain as irrelevant because the roots of it may have started in the past is in itself a repetition of abandonment and belittlement.

 

day 6

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

In reply to Re: day 5 (v. long) wishingstar, posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 16:04:59

They switched my meds again. Now I'm off wellbutrin (it was making me sick) and on lithium. I dont want to take the lithium. I'm not bipolar. I havent decided whether or not I will... they gave me samples.

Overall I feel miserable. In a complete daze. I know that tomorrow I'll barely remember this entire evening.. not that ill forget, itll just seem unreal. thats what happens to me when it gets bad like this.

I said very little all day at partial. They check in with everyone in the morning.. I said I felt terrible.. that was about it. No questions directed at me during afternoon group except for whether or not the dr changed my meds. This is hard to admit, but I guess I feel a little ignored there lately. I guess they know I'm feeling blocked off, so I guess the Ts want to leave me alone.. but I just wish more than anything that theyd ASK. I was on the verge of tears all of the second group.. and I dont know what Id have said if the T asked how I was. Very possible broken down right there. I just feel ignored.I've felt this way since mid week last week but I havent wanted to admit it becuase its therapy, so its my responsibility to jump in. But regardless, it's how I feel. In morning group Randy said he figured I probably didnt want him to pick on me (direct attention on me) and I actually said that no, it was okay.. I just didnt know what to say. And there is this one girl there, K.. who is in a somewhat similar situation to me..and several times since I've been there hes taken her back into his office and theyve talked, hes calmed her down, etc... why doesnt he want to talk to ME? It's not because she was freaking out or anything. He did it today and she was sitting just fine, quietly, in group. I know what her situation is.. in fact, I know things she hasnt told the therapists.. so its not that theres a crisis I dont know about. Is it dumb of me to feel this way? I really struggle with feeling like im just an attention-seeker. Maybe I am.

I'm not going to partial tomorrow. We have 2 1-hour workshops in the mornings, and every Tues, both hour blocks are taken up by this one guy who does relaxation stuff. Hes good at it, but it'd be my 4th time hearing it, and for some reason, those exercises always seem to drop my mood a few notches. So I asked randy what to do and he said its okay if I dont come tomorrow. So I'll go back Wed. I also told him, again, that I feel just as bad as I did before I got to the hospital. He said we can talk Wed about whether partial is the right place for me right now. If partial isnt, what the hell is? Inpatient was NOT helpful.. in fact, it made me feel worse. Regular therapy obviously isnt working. I just feel so hopeless. Like there is nothing that will ever pull me out of this. No where I can go.

I'm just miserable. I just hurt so bad. I left partial today and cried my way home in the car. I know there isnt much left to say to this because I've posted this same stuff so many times.. so its okay if no one responds. But I guess it helps to know someone is at least reading it. So thanks. I'm trying.

 

Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by sunnydays on November 6, 2006, at 16:00:32

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

(((((((wishingstar))))))

You are doing a great job. Try taking the lithium - it doesn't mean you're bipolar, and even if you were, it wouldn't be a bad thing, I know wonderful sensitive people who are bipolar. It's all about your brain chemistry, not about you. Sometimes finding the right medication can make a world of difference when you feel this bad.

I am in awe of you - I am not exaggerating. That you are able to push yourself to go to partial when you are feeling that bad really says something about your internal strength. But I get it that you don't want to have to be strong, you want someone to fix it for you.

Keep trying. It will get better eventually. I'm proud of you.

sunnydays

 

Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by MidnightBlue on November 6, 2006, at 16:43:45

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

Try the lithium. I was offered it and I am 100% unipolar. I didn't take it, but that is a different story. It conflicted with one of my other meds.

Why inpatient and why might it help? As an inpatient they can rapidly change your meds and watch closely how you are doing. That might be a reason to go inpatient again for a short time. If you are very depressed you CAN'T force yourself to be part of a group. And you can't participate well in any therapy.

You aren't failing, you just need more help. Hang in there.

MidnightBlue

 

Re: day 6 wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 6, 2006, at 17:02:40

In reply to day 6, posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 15:30:37

I'm sorry you still feel so awful, WS. I wish I knew what would help. Unfortunately, my experience with depression is that you just have to try to outlast the worst of it, and it appears to me that you are in the worst of it right now.

I do think you should share with Randy that you are feeling ignored. My memory of your first time in partial is not that the group therapy and workshops were so helpful, but that Randy himself was helpful. So if there's a way to get more one-on-one time with him, I think that would be good. When I was hospitalized (twice during my bad year), the only helpful thing they offered was recreational therapy. Now, I am not in any way a jock, but somehow heading outside the hospital and playing badminton helped me more than anything else. I told that to the rec therapist and she made sure that we got together at least once/day. Sometimes it was most of the group, sometimes it was the two of us and sometimes it was 3 or 4. And it wasn't that I was pouring my heart out to her, because I didn't. I don't know why it worked, but it did. I realize they probably don't offer rec. therapy in partial, so I'm not suggesting that. I just want you to know that sometimes there is something that will help and it's not always the obvious thing. Maybe for me it was that it gave me a break from myself and my suicidal ideation in a way talk therapy didn't.

I've also been thinking about your conversation with Ginny last week about being overly reliant on therapy. I wonder if just the mere fact that she's encouraging you to expand your support base feels like a criticism to you because it is getting filtered through the depression? Just something to think about. I think it's possible Ginny could want you to develop an outside support system AND not think you are overly reliant on therapy. Whatever you think, I think you should discuss this with her some more, along with your grief over the Anne situation. Sometime when I have the time and when I'm not afraid of boring you to tears, I'll share my T horror story, okay? Just so you know you can get through it.

(((((((((((((((WishingStar))))))))))))

 

Re: day 6 sunnydays

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 17:20:03

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by sunnydays on November 6, 2006, at 16:00:32

I think I am going to at least try the lithium. I talked to Ginny tonight and she encouraged me to try it to, so I think I will. It's not the idea of being bipolar I have a problem with at all.. I definitely dont think its a bad thing (any more than having any mental illness is a bad thing). I just know it isnt what I have. Sometimes I wish I did.. I could use some "ups" in with the "lows".. but of course I know it isnt as good as it sounds. Just a different set of issues.

Thank you for the compliment. That really means a lot to me. I dont feel like there is any reason to be impressed or feel positively about anything I'm doing right now.. in some ways I do feel like I'm helpless and failing. But you're right, I'm trying. It's just so hard. Thank you for saying that.

 

Re: day 6 MidnightBlue

Posted by wishingstar on November 6, 2006, at 17:27:54

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on November 6, 2006, at 16:43:45

I was just in inpatient a little over a week ago, and I really, really hated it. I felt worse there then I think I probably would have felt at home. Maybe it was just the unit I was on, but all the groups were aimed at lower-functioning people who have a hard time expressing things. I really just wanted someone to talk to but that wasnt really available there. I just sat around staring at the walls most of the time, bored out of my mind, going deeper and deeper into the depression. I hated the feeling of all the restirctions - no strngs, no dental floss, etc. It made me feel helpless and alone, in a weird way. I guess I felt like the only real benefit of that unit, at least for me, was to keep me safe. That was it. They did change my meds while I was there (to the wellbutrin, which I just stopped), but it takes so long for anti-depressants to work, there is really no opporunity to see if theyre working until later on. I guess if I find that I cant keep myself safe at home I might consider going back, but until I'm on that brink, I dont think I will. I'm miserable, and suicidal, but not immenintely dangeorus to myself at this moment. I hope that makes sense.

I'm supposed to talk to Randy on Wed about whether partial is the right place for me. But what is the other option? I called Ginny tonight out of desperation and she said maybe he is thinking of another program somewhere else. I live somewhat close to DC (2 hours) and there is every program in the world up there. Maybe anotehr program would be more helpful? I dont know. Right now I'm not sure any program will be helpful until these meds (or something else) lifts me up a little bit.

Thank you for understanding how hard it is to participate in group. I do feel like I'm failing in some ways... why cant I just talk? Is it my fault that it's not helping, since Im not talking? But you're right. It isnt on purpose, and I'm trying the best I can.. but I just cant. We talked about patterns in our past romantic relationships today and even though I know what my pattern is, I didnt say it, because it just felt like why bother? It would take too much energy to verbalize it and it just seems so pointless. Thank you for understanding. That helps me to keep it in perspective too.

 

Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 15:28:05

In reply to Re: day 6 wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 6, 2006, at 17:02:40

I'm sorry therapygirl, somehow I missed seeing your response yesterday. I guess you must have posted it as I was writing the other responses and I just didnt see it.

I do know what you mean about certain things helping, like your recreational therapy. I do think more one-on-one time would help, but I guess I just dont think I can ask for it. The program doesnt really include that. Last time I was there, I was acutely upset about anne and he took me into his office alone a few times.. but that was special. It's not really something I can/should expect. I just wish I had it. I dont understand why K gets it so much and never me. That is SO hard for me to type... it feels so selfish. Yesterday I walked past his office mid-day going to the group room and he called my name, but when I stopped, he just asked me to ask another person in the group to go down to his office. I have no idea what it was about though.

I guess I just feel like it's my own fault if I feel ignored. If I jumped in during group and said what I wanted to say, someone would likely listen. But its hard because I hate to draw the attention off of someone else and change the topic like that. When I do have something to contribute to the conversation the entire group is having I will say it, but really the things I need to talk about arnet coming up, and it just isnt fair for me to change the group like that. Everyone else is engaged in these conversations... and it's not all about me. It's about what's good for the group. But even though I understand that logically, I still feel sad and ignored. And alone there.

You made a good point regarding Ginny and expanding my support base. I think you might be right. I certainly understand the value of having support outside in ADDITION to therapy. But I cant help but feel like every time they push and bring that up, theyre pushing me away and saying I need to rely more on other things. Over-reliant on therapy. That was the word they used in that workshop. It wasnt directed at me personally, but still. I do need to talk to Ginny about this. She hasnt really said anything much that makes me feel this way with her.. its mostly things Randy, Laurie and others have said that I'm extending to my relationship with Ginny. Because if it's true with my other therapeutic relationships, I'm sure its true with Ginny too.

I dont know how to talk about Anne. No one wants me to do. Ginny doesnt actually stop me like Laurie will, but I can still feel the pull away from it. Like a constant attempt to get the conversation to a different place.

Until I dropped out of grad school, I was working as a mentor for some undergrads. The director of the program knows what happened with anne, and I guess mentioned it to a counselor at the university counseling center who she is frends with. Apparently this woman reacted immediately saying that it was unethical, terrible, etc. I know this woman a little just from working at the center (I used to be an intern), so after getting the director of my mentorship programs permission, I emailed the counselor to ask if I could come speak with her about it. Not for any type of therapy, just one brief meeting to tell what happened and get a reaction from someone who is more of an objective outsider and doesnt know my entire life story. Of course my life story does play into what happened and probably brought up some countertransference issues that affected how it played out (at least thats what ive concluded), but I think it'd help me to hear someone - a therapist - agree with me that it was bad and tell me its okay to be hurt. I dont expect her to make me feel better directly, because I have a therapist and obviously this woman isnt her, but I think the indirect effects of a conversation like that could be big for me. She hasnt gotten back to me yet but we'll see. At the very least, if I do see her, I want Anne's name taken off the list of referrals that the counseling center gives to students they cannot treat. That's where I got her name originally. It makes me so mad at myself that I'm still hung up on this.

And dont worry, it wouldnt bore me at all to hear your horror story. If you ever feel like sharing it, I'd be happy to hear it. It does help to know I'm not the only one.

Thanks. :)

 

Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:05:21

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl, posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 15:28:05

No need to apologize for the delayed response -- I actually figured out that we were online at the same time last night.

Here's what I think about what you wrote today: the depression is making it impossible for you to ask for what you need, yet the only way you have a chance of getting it is to ask for it. It's a catch 22, all caused by the depression. From what you've said about Randy, I cannot imagine he would turn you down if you asked for a little one-on-one time with him. I think he did it for you the first time you were in partial and I think he's doing it now for K. If you ask, I think he will do what he can. Does that mean I think he'll clear his schedule and spend 6 hours with you? No. But I don't think that's what you're asking for. It is pretty clear that you think any small thing you ask for is too much. I understand that because I've been there. BUT IT ISN'T TOO MUCH. You're worth it and you deserve it. The same thing goes for the group -- just because it appears to you that they are all benefitting from the discussions they're having and that your stuff somehow doesn't fit in with theirs doesn't make it true. That's the depression talking. I believe the group would benefit from your experiences -- just like here on Babble. We don't all have the same issues, but that doesn't mean we can't support and help each other. So as hard as I know it is, I hope you will think about speaking up. I know for sure you won't get what you need if you don't ask, so you don't have much to lose, right?

Thank you for being interested in my T horror story. I'll try to post it in the next couple of days, okay? It is very similar to yours, which is I think why your story resonates so much with me (and why I appear to be so pushy).

Take care of yourself, okay? You're doing good stuff.

 

Re: day 6 (long) TherapyGirl

Posted by wishingstar on November 7, 2006, at 20:35:39

In reply to Re: day 6 (long) wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:05:21

I guess you're right. I mean, there's some tiny part (.001%?) of me that knows you're right.

But I'm having such a hard time believing it. Even though what youre saying sounds logical, I have a million "but...."s in my head. And they feel so real. I dont think that I do deserve time to talk about what I want to talk about if its different from what the rest of the group wants to talk about. I want them to feel better and I know theyd be supportive if I tried to talk more, but it certainly wouldnt help anyone feel better. That sounds silly even to me, because of course I need to worry about how I feel too.. not just what makes them feel better. But I cant get past it. On one level, I dont feel like I deserve any more than what I'm getting.

I'm afraid that there is something to lose by speaking up or by asking for what I need. There is the possibility that it could be rejected or refused. And I dont think I could handle that right now. Laurie just disappeared on me in the last week or so.. I called her to say I didnt need to come back anymore because I'll be seeing Ginny and for her to call me.. and nothing. It wasnt an angry call, or passive-aggressive, or anything. Anyway.. the safety of this is almost better than the possibility of being rejected again. But you're right, it certainly isnt going to get better either until I ask for what I need. And that's where the hopeslessness comes in. I just want to die. I feel so incredibly stuck and I just dont thnik there's any way out. I know that's the depression talking. But its true. I cant ask for what I need, so I'm never going to get it, so I'm not going to feel better. It's a vicious cycle that I'm holding in, I know. But there's just no way out that feels possible right now.

Just for the record, you dont feel pushy at all to me. I appreciate everything you've said so far. It has given me some good things to think about, even if I'm still too afraid to take any productive action. I'll watch for your T story.. but take your time. I know youre busy so whenever you get to it. But I'll be interested to read it. Thanks for sharing.


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