Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 696451

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***

Posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 1:47:03

OK so I figgered alot. I was flipping out but I am ok now.
Something very scarey and yucky happened to one of my inside kids.
My T said mebbe she is too little to be able to have the words to tell me, and thats why its so confusing.
I kept thinking she(kid) was just messing with me. Or mebbe thats what I WANTED to think...
But things have been very bad inside. Lots of freaking.
So now, after alot of fuss. We have decided this kids feelings have as much validity as anyone elses. She's just little so its not really terribly likely she's messing w/us.
So, something bad happened to her.
We will accept that.
But the rest of our kidhood WAS good. Yeah, we accept that too! Good.
So any dysfunctionality that carried thru, was due most likely, from the ongoing confusion from that kid.
Triggers, confusion, fear, and noone knowing why.
And so thats why Muffled is the way she is.
She is still Muffled.
That inside kid is part of her.
And we going to accept her as she is.
Mebbe hurt, but NOT dirty, NOT bad, NOT tainted, NOT disgusting and gross, NOT evil.
Just a scared little kid.
THATS what we gonna do.
I hope this will work......
Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***

Posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 3:10:26

In reply to ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 1:47:03

and the splitting was due to oversensitivity and general confusion...

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?*** » muffled

Posted by TherapyGirl on October 21, 2006, at 6:53:06

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 3:10:26

Sounds like you and your T continue to do really good work. I'll be interested to hear how it's going with this new, small i-kid.

(((((Muffled)))))

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger » muffled

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2006, at 9:17:48

In reply to ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 1:47:03

shhhh.... Muffled. I'll let you in on a little secret.

Pragmatically, this is the best approach, and ends up with the best result. Borrowing our therapist's positive regard, when we need to, or if we can't dredge some up ourselves. Listening respectfully. Reassuring in a caring way. These things tend to improve behavior of parts of you that don't feel loved or respected by you.

I always say that when someone listens, I don't have to shout to be heard.

It doesn't work right away, but have faith that your therapist is on to something.

Dinah

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***

Posted by wishingstar on October 21, 2006, at 10:25:43

In reply to ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 1:47:03

Good for you muffled. That's a hard place to come to (at least for me) but I agree with the others.. it's definitely the best. It's a big step. You, and all parts of you, are okay just the way you are.

{{{muffled}}}

 

Thanks TG, its hard, I all over, but moving ahead. (nm) » TherapyGirl

Posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:31:29

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?*** » muffled, posted by TherapyGirl on October 21, 2006, at 6:53:06

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger » Dinah

Posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:44:51

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger » muffled, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2006, at 9:17:48

> shhhh.... Muffled. I'll let you in on a little secret.

*** ya YOU!!! I know you told me this before!!! Thank-you, just goto muddle my way thru..
>
> Pragmatically, this is the best approach, and ends up with the best result. Borrowing our therapist's positive regard, when we need to, or if we can't dredge some up ourselves. Listening respectfully. Reassuring in a caring way. These things tend to improve behavior of parts of you that don't feel loved or respected by you.

**Thats a good idea-borrowing our T's positive regard...never thot of that either. Hmmmm.
I haven't said much to my T bout this yet. Mebbe she knows more than I realize, cuz she has said some good things. She is VERY careful to not say too much. She a smart one. Either that or she missing the boat!!!LOL. Whatever, it works for me!!!LOL!!!
Actually she is very sweet.And I think pretty dam smart. I like her.
>
> I always say that when someone listens, I don't have to shout to be heard.

***this is something my T mentioned also...
>
> It doesn't work right away, but have faith that your therapist is on to something.

***mebbe she is or isn't(see above!!!LOL). Mostly I been figgering this on my own and w/the help of babblers, prayer etc. And many of the things my T has said, have been right on the mark as far as being useful to me.
Guess I should tell her this stuff...
I hope it works soon, I am so frazzled.
I am starting to fear that there's something else going on, but I dunno what it is yet.
Hopefully I am mistaken.
Hopefully its just jealousy from one of my i.kids that I feeling.
Thanks Dinah, and everybody.
Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 22, 2006, at 9:11:17

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger » Dinah, posted by muffled on October 21, 2006, at 11:44:51

Muffled,
I don't know if this is an appropriate place to say that I envy you for having different voices inside of you.

I wish my different moods, motives, reactions, etc had some kind of organization.

I'm going to make a classical music analogy-

learning a Mozart violin concerto. Just me and my violin and some notes. I play the notes nicely. I follow the printed directions on the page... all is okey-dokey.

My teacher says: Mozart's PASSION was to write opera. Even in his instrumental work, there is opera. Listen to these different phrases (in the violin concerto). Who are THESE characters?

One phrase belongs to the heroine- a soprano. There's also a joker- the tenor, and a darker voice, the villain. All in my single violin part.

It's up to me to decide where one voice interrupts the other, and who behaves how with whom. Once I could figure it out, the music had so much more energy, meaning, color...

I wish my own thoughts were so organized. But then, I don't have a genius like Mozart planning out my thoughts in advance... Perhaps I cling too tightly to the notion of a single unified self. I know that conciousness is fragmented, even in the most normal mediocre minds, but somehow, we create this powerful illusion of having ONE voice, ONE self, despite evidence to the contrary.

I think you're brave to admit that there are conflicting characters in your inner "opera"

-Li

 

Hey, that was nice WS, thanks :-) (nm) » wishingstar

Posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 22:49:33

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...**Trigger?***, posted by wishingstar on October 21, 2006, at 10:25:43

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too...

Posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:11:40

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 22, 2006, at 9:11:17

> I don't know if this is an appropriate place to say that I envy you for having different voices inside of you.

**Thank-you. Its not all bad. i've had some proud moments over my inside kids :-)
>
> I wish my different moods, motives, reactions, etc had some kind of organization.

**Ah, thats the wonder of inside people! It all makes sense....sort of!!!!LOL! Actually its confusing as hell! But sometimes when I figure out stuff it makes me LAUGH, cuz my i. kids ARE kids, and they can be so funny. Imagine having i.kids getting JEALOUS over other ones, all in one person! Good God, its nuts!!!LOL!
>
> I'm going to make a classical music analogy-
>
> learning a Mozart violin concerto. Just me and my violin and some notes. I play the notes nicely. I follow the printed directions on the page... all is okey-dokey.
>
> My teacher says: Mozart's PASSION was to write opera. Even in his instrumental work, there is opera. Listen to these different phrases (in the violin concerto). Who are THESE characters?
>
> One phrase belongs to the heroine- a soprano. There's also a joker- the tenor, and a darker voice, the villain. All in my single violin part.

***Wow, this is SO cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> It's up to me to decide where one voice interrupts the other, and who behaves how with whom. Once I could figure it out, the music had so much more energy, meaning, color...

***The only thing I would change in this wonderful analogy, is that its NOT up to you to decide where one voice interrupts the other...the voices are their own. You can't control them really. Only up to a point. They ARE themselves. Most definately.
So mebbe it could be said you are interpreting from the music what the voices are expressing to you. And thru their different ways og being, you are able to get to know who is who in the music, and then tease them out more fully as you play and grow to understand them....
>
> I wish my own thoughts were so organized. But then, I don't have a genius like Mozart planning out my thoughts in advance... Perhaps I cling too tightly to the notion of a single unified self. I know that conciousness is fragmented, even in the most normal mediocre minds, but somehow, we create this powerful illusion of having ONE voice, ONE self, despite evidence to the contrary.

***Yes it been said that ALL have 'people' inside.
>
> I think you're brave to admit that there are conflicting characters in your inner "opera"

***It was not brave. I would never have admitted it normally. But it was God who very clearly showed me Franchesca :-)
It was VERY clear. And very clearly of God.
So if God Himself showed me, then it must be OK.
I could write a book on the many amazing things I think of (if I could just keep anything in my head for more than 10 secs!) that stem from the wonder of the initial discovery of Fran. Its just been SO COOL.
THATS why I have been able to so completely be accepting of my 'people'.
And as I get to know them, I care for them more. Cuz they ARE people.
They have their own 'stuff'. We don't always agree. We fight. I don't want any part of some stuff. Kids get hurt and mad. And on it goes....
And they are me. We are we.
And thats just fine by me.

Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 11:33:28

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too..., posted by muffled on October 22, 2006, at 23:11:40

Yeah,
I guess I wouldn't try to control the music too much either. Mozart gives a great roadmap regarding which sections belong to which characters. It doesn't really do to make a dark spooky phrase sing like a virginal soprano, does it?

Muffled, who lives your life at the moment? Do your i. folks take turns, each gets a chance at the steering wheel, depending on what street you're driving on?

Do they negotiate and argue about the past, present, and future?

Fran knows Muffled? and vice versa?

I'm curious.

-Li

p.s. my husband used the word "muffled" yesterday in conversation. I thought of you. ((((((muffled)))))

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte

Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 14:56:32

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 11:33:28

> Yeah,
> I guess I wouldn't try to control the music too much either. Mozart gives a great roadmap regarding which sections belong to which characters. It doesn't really do to make a dark spooky phrase sing like a virginal soprano, does it?

***LOL. Nope.
>
> Muffled, who lives your life at the moment? Do your i. folks take turns, each gets a chance at the steering wheel, depending on what street you're driving on?

***Mostly its me, Muffled. Though there is an I. kid that insists her name is Muffled too!
I don't 'switch' like a DID person. I am just a little more separated than the average bear. But not so much.
Sometimes I have a little trouble with 'Toughie' being around(as I call it) more than I would like. Sometimes I don't realize that I am in Toughie 'mode', then it'll dawn on me, and the 'I' will try to make sure Toughie don't get carried away, cuz sometimes she does.
Mostly thats the only one that i have trouble with.
Blossom causes trouble too I suppose, she just won't back off.
Ther's another I.kid(the one that insists that she's called muffled too!) thats a GREAT kid. We used to fight like cats and dogs, but we get along good now. She helps me lots. I'm not that aware of her these days. I think we are ok together :-) We haven't fought in a long time, and she has learned to behave well etc :-)
>
> Do they negotiate and argue about the past, present, and future?

**There is definately dissention. Often it just seems like 'noise' in my head. Its hard to think. Sometimes it is much more difficult to deal with cuz it can get rather intense. They fight in the background. They get upset over stuff.
Seems to me that its mostly kids. And the wonder of it all to me anyways, I just can't get over it, is that they ARE kids. And their behavior reflects that. Once I came to understand that, then it became easier to sometimes figger out what was going on. Oftentimes its rather petty. Jealousy, or upset over something I have said.
>
> Fran knows Muffled? and vice versa?

***I don't know what Fran knows. She is a baby. All i know is she seems very happy and was SO exited when I named her. It was SO funny. She is wonderful. I had a big smile( no, HUGE smile!!!)(NO GIGANTIC smile!!!!!!!) on my face for days over her. Everyonce in awhile she'll pop up and make me smile.
Muffled knows (kid)muffled. Blossom knows Muffled. (kid) muffled knows Blossom, dunno if blossom knows (kid) muffled. Toughie knows blossom and I guess muffled, and nasty too.
I'm not so sure, its confusing.
Sometimes I am convinced that they got stuff going on that I know NOTHING about. I just feel the anxiousness etc., but dunno where its comming from. I just know there's upset. Sometimes I can figger it out, and it can be so fun, cuz its such kidstuff,and its so weird and interesting, the whole 'thing' of it, and its relatively easy to sort out. Sometimes anyways.
>
> I'm curious.

***thats OK. I have no shame bout my 'people', cuz I think lotsa people got 'people', and there's NOTHING wrong with that. NOTHING. I think alot of people could be much helped if they could have some understanding of the kids inside. And they would care bout themselves more if they could accept these hurting ones, accept that they ARE IN FACT KIDS. And they hurt, and they did nothing to be ashamed of, and they just wanto be acknowleged and cared for, just like any kid.
Ok. I stepping off my soapbox now.....lol!

> p.s. my husband used the word "muffled" yesterday in conversation. I thought of you. ((((((muffled)))))

***Awwww. :-) Thanks!!!!!

Take care,
Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 15:11:24

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 14:56:32

I used to have a character named Pandora that I would trot out for my friends in 9th grade. When I was acting like Pandora, I'd do all sorts of gutsy things that Li would NEVER do. My friends started asking for her so much though, and Li started to feel underloved even more than usual. Pandora went back inside and hasn't really come out since then much.

She's a wild reckless teenager. I wonder if she was an inner person, or just a role I was playing to get out of my social confines and amuse my friends?

whatever. I'll think about it.

-Li

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte

Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 15:31:36

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 15:11:24

> I used to have a character named Pandora that I would trot out for my friends in 9th grade. When I was acting like Pandora, I'd do all sorts of gutsy things that Li would NEVER do. My friends started asking for her so much though, and Li started to feel underloved even more than usual. Pandora went back inside and hasn't really come out since then much.
>
> She's a wild reckless teenager. I wonder if she was an inner person, or just a role I was playing to get out of my social confines and amuse my friends?

***Hmmm, interesting. I dunno. I could be quite a b*dass teen too...looking back, I dunno if it was toughie, or just an angry muffled? Dunno? I packed a knife since I was like mebbe 8 or so? But toughie I think of as being around 12 or so. Hmmmmm.
It IS interesting that you would say that "Li started to feel underloved even more than usual. Pandora went back inside and hasn't really come out since then much."
Cuz I know jealousy can be a prob. w/my inner people..
Also, that she hasn't come out 'much'. Does that mean she does come out, independantly of your(Li's) will?
Hmmmmm.
I guess the thing I would try and think of frim my pov, would be if Li was there and present and aware of the behavior at the time, and if she had a DIFFERENT emotional perspective on it than the person who was doing the behavior. If that makes any sense?
I don't think I can look back and see stuff like that. I can only know my people here and now. What I feel from them in the moment. I can't look back and say, 'that was toughie' when I did that 10 years ago. I could guess, bur I wouldn't know.
But mebbe thats due to my memeory probs?
Its all very interesting.
Guess I've fallen abck on being the scientist bout this all. Impassively observing the weirdness. Its not me, its just this person and their odd behaviors that i am observing with interest...
>
> whatever. I'll think about it.

***Good luck!
>
> -Li

**Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 18:26:41

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 15:31:36

Well, that onset of teenagerhood was a very interesting time point. I felt more power and independence that year (9th grade) than I would at any other time until I left home. probably b/c my older bro was inpatient and at another school. I was on my own- free to forge my own friendships, wear ridiculous clothes, and be bolder than usual.

I'm a very timid lindenblossom, in general, particularly when I'm wilting in the sunshine or tempest of my older bro's bipoles.

I had control over Pandora. Her behavior surprised me, and later I had regrets, but in the moment, I felt like I was justified in breaking rules and being rowdy- to a point. I never allowed myself to lose control over my body or mind via drugs or alcohol.

Now, I understand why I always WISHED to lose control, but never allowed myself to be reckless in the direction of losing control over my body.

Even in college, when I did some pretty heavy binge drinking, I always stopped short of losing power of observing who was a potential danger and keeping my distance.

This is a different topic. I might start a thread on when I get a moment to gather my thoughts.

Muff- I talked to my T today about intimacy following separation. She had some interesting suggestions: think about the part that makes me the most anxious. Think about a way that I can 'set the scene' and be the one who is making a decision about how when where it happens. She had some suggestions, which was kind of funny, hearing from a woman who is older than my mom! I think I might have giggled at one point. good gracious gassiness- sex is so strange sometimes...

-Li

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte

Posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 23:42:09

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 23, 2006, at 18:26:41

> Well, that onset of teenagerhood was a very interesting time point. I felt more power and independence that year (9th grade) than I would at any other time until I left home. probably b/c my older bro was inpatient and at another school. I was on my own- free to forge my own friendships, wear ridiculous clothes, and be bolder than usual.

***That must have been wonderful :-)
>
> I'm a very timid lindenblossom, in general, particularly when I'm wilting in the sunshine or tempest of my older bro's bipoles.

***That must have been very hard :-(
>
> I had control over Pandora. Her behavior surprised me, and later I had regrets, but in the moment, I felt like I was justified in breaking rules and being rowdy- to a point. I never allowed myself to lose control over my body or mind via drugs or alcohol.

***No, I rarely did either. Lose control. Very careful. Had it down to a science I did. Which isn't to say I didn't do incredibly stupid things, but "I" was seemingly always safe? Its a wonder to me really. A miracle. I had very risky behavior.
>
> Now, I understand why I always WISHED to lose control, but never allowed myself to be reckless in the direction of losing control over my body.

**Why did you wish to lose control? I never wished to lose control. I just wished to be numb.
>
> Even in college, when I did some pretty heavy binge drinking, I always stopped short of losing power of observing who was a potential danger and keeping my distance.

***Its a gift I think sometimes. Being able to stay safe.
Something to do with hypervigilance. Something to do with ooozing Rage out the very pores of your body, like an aura about you. Something with being able to brazen your way out of ANYthing. Odd really. I am only 5'1" and at that timed weighed proly 110 lbs. max. Very odd.
>
> This is a different topic. I might start a thread on when I get a moment to gather my thoughts.

***Yeah, I find Li very interesting :-)
I am in scientist mode !!!
>
> Muff- I talked to my T today about intimacy following separation. She had some interesting suggestions: think about the part that makes me the most anxious. Think about a way that I can 'set the scene' and be the one who is making a decision about how when where it happens. She had some suggestions, which was kind of funny, hearing from a woman who is older than my mom! I think I might have giggled at one point. good gracious gassiness- sex is so strange sometimes...

**ALL of it makes me anxious :-(
Ya, its always been better if I attack him and try to make light of it. Though sometimes I just implode into myself, dissociate, and get it over with asap.
If he tries to make the moves, NO WAY.
LOL, it must have been weird all right.
Sex is...alot of things...alot of bad things.
Including highly undignified!!!LOL.
Thx. Li :-)
Muffled

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 12:12:45

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte, posted by muffled on October 23, 2006, at 23:42:09

Muffled's in scientist mode?!?
Very cool!
Wanna come work for me?
I need me a good scientist.

I get in scientist mode too.
Only, I'm interested in how to understand the bad stuff.
I wish I could get interested in the science of

Joy
Mirth
Happiness
Satisfaction
Ecstasy
Humor
Love

Or do I assume that we are all born innocent creatures, full of love and wonder, and it's our experiences with the world that gradually train us to respond differently to different situations?

My T said that my love for husband is probably the only love that remains (for the most part) untainted with fear.

Unlike love for my mom (is tainted with anger, disappointment).

love for my cat, which is limited to the moments when she's being a sweetiekitty

Love for my dad that never really was allowed to germinate, and the seed is slowly turning to dust, as I lose hope of ever connecting with him at that level.d

Love for my little brother that is guarded with trying to protect him from the darker side of his family.

Love for my older brother that is poisoned with fear and hatred, jealousy and competition.

So, that's love. Pretty easy.

But what about happiness? Why do I feel happy when the sun strikes my skin? Why do I feel happy when the air rushes through my hair and I'm zooming downhill (on my skis, or my bike, or a motorcycle?)

At other times, sun on my skin gives me anxiety about cancer and damage. Zooming downhill as I run away is a terrible feeling indeed, as I am little and will surely be overtaken!

What is it that allows us to feel the good stuff? Is it taking away the layers of poisonous dread, anxiety, fear, anger? Or is it an addition of vitamin "happy" that is opaque and blocks out the expression of fear anger etc. that lies underneath?

Are emotions/moods/feelings 2 or more opposing voices (streams of consciousness, to be more precise) and they are all active, all the time. Only sometimes one of them is yelling louder, drowing out the voices of the others?

Where did the voices come from?

Do I share the same streams of consciousness with others? Can I borrow one of theirs for a bit? (I'd like to borrow my T's sense of calm and comfort sometimes; or my ex-T's sense of energy and purpose, or my husband's wonder, or my friend Muffled's wit.)

Or are we all little separate bubbles of thought-worlds, isolated, yet transparent to one another, who keep on bumping into each other. Sometimes bouncing, sometimes sticking?

...sigh...

I miss Alex.

-Li

 

Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » Lindenblüte

Posted by muffled on October 29, 2006, at 3:00:31

In reply to Re: ok-Mebbe this will help others too... » muffled, posted by Lindenblüte on October 24, 2006, at 12:12:45

Yikes!!!
That was definately Alex material!!!
I not that smart! LOL!!!!
Thanks Li,
your great.
Muffled


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