Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 694836

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Re: anyone » Lindenblüte

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 12:19:42

In reply to Re: anyone » LadyBug, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 9:47:24

>>>>>>1) you've got some health problem giving you severe chronic abdominal/pelvic pain.

Maybe true, maybe not. THe ad/pelvic stuff is rather recent (like less than six months). The main health problem is quite different than this stuff.

>>>>>a) You should be on antibiotics if this is your diagnosis. You may have nausea, chills, fever, and you generally feel like sh*t all over, especially in your tummy/pelvic/lower back.

Yes, the pills are huge! Like bigger than calcium supplements - which I didn't think was possible.

>>>>>>b) ...like corticosteroids or other treatments- because it could be one of those autoimmune reactions. Alternative medicine probably has the best answers. I have used a supplement called d-maltose to cure and prevent my chronic UTI's when my bacteria no longer responded to the 4 most commonly prescribed antibiotics...

I was gonna have to go on c-steroids for .... GI stuff? (that's the most graceful way I can say that) THey were hesitant because it's bad for my osteoporosis. Not only do I have it, but severe cases of it are heriditary in my family. Plus, I told them if it made me gain even more weight that I'd kill myself, guaranteed. I had just finished gaining 35lbs again and my mind could not tolerate even the possibility of more.

>>>> c)Finally, you may have endometriosis. Some women have rogue wandering bits of uterine tissue that just decide to take a little journey throughout the pelvic/abdominal region.

LadyDoc mentioned this before I had to leave her. But she couldn't order tests or really invest the time to monitor me that much cause the rules stated that for the last two "months of grace" she was only to be promoting their version of "closure" to my file.

This other guy I've seen only says to take over-the-counter stuff -- like I wasn't already maxing out the daily doses of all that stuff.

>>>> d)I'm sure you know about irritable bowel.

Yes, that seems to be residual damage from the ED. I already take alot of med to keep the GI tract moving. I just gave up solids for so long that it never really "woke up" once I started eating food again. They prescribe drinking gastric prep fluid whenever one symptom is bad (like the stuff you take if you're gonna have a colonoscopy. it's the fowlest tasting substance on the planet.) I could write volumes on this subject but it's so lovely that I think I'll leave it at that.

>>>> 2) Discomfort at being a patient. This is never fun. I get twitchy and startled when I'm in the office being examined.

I mostly just panic because I'm so dependant on these people who haven't been able to help. My quality of life is gonna depend on them giving enough of a sh*t to listen to more than a 30sec. summary of symptoms. The docs I've seen can't tolerate more than one symptom at a time (maybe two if they're patient), and interupt if you try and string more than three sentences together. I've tried using medical jargon to keep their interest but it only makes me sound pompous too, nevermind an anxious, neurotic female.

I've written out stuff before and they don't want to read it - even when it's been condensed to point form notes on one page. I've tried, but time is money and someone else is already scheduled to come in in five minutes. They don't really even look you in the eye. Most of the time they only talk while they are writing something down - I assume so they can't see the tears in your eyes, or the pain in your eyebrows, or the dejection in your shoulders. I really can't get over how little they look at you.

>>>>Be persistent- ask the doctor to tell you EXACTLY why a particular illness can or cannot be ruled out. Take notes during your visit, if necessary. Ask the doctor if there is a test that will help rule out a particular illness, and if so- whether you need the test. Be pushy- some doctors like that! It's your body, after all.

I've found it terribly hard to be taken seriously once they hear of my psychiatric history. Mainly the anorexia. When they hear that I spent years walking around like a skeleton while proclaiming that I was fine and even too fat, then my credibility in interpreting feelings and pain now shrinks into oblivion. I think it's already hard enough for women's physical symptoms to be taken seriously and not be prescribed an SSRI for everything -- I think we're way more likely to be accused of mistaking emotional for physical pain.
I know it does happen, but it's not the answer all the time. Then when they hear that I take an occassional ativan, that's the end. That's how I can get prescribed that instead of real meds last winter, until I went gasping to a female doc in the hospital. Each contact I have with the medical system just discourages me even more, makes the ability to speak even harder. But what else can I do but keep going?! Nothing.

>>>>It helps me to remember that doctors have to submit to embarassing medical examinations themselves as well.

I loved LadyDoc cause she really helped with stuff like that. Not only explaining procedures, but she'd talk with me a little before jumping into everything. She would even tell me what she was feeling when she has had similar procedures done. I miss her so much. She made such a difference. It was easier to suffer when she was beside me.

>>>> 3) Pain from your T dumping his personal issues in your lap. I'm sorry this is causing you so much stress. It's not fair. It's a really sh*tty thing for a friend to do. Lemme try to create an analogy- let's say that I have recently broken up with my boyfriend. On the one hand, I'm trying to move on, and heal my old wounds. But it's impossible to do so when he keeps on calling ME asking ME to help him heal HIS wounds too! It's the worst conflict of interest. Your T has become the patient, and he has placed you in some marginal position of being either the object of his love, the source of his psychological pain, and the reason for his malpractice. Your T has made SO MANY mistakes, it's simply inexcusable.

I know. Kind of. I think I know. But under all the "mistakes" is a regular human, who makes human mistakes, and I find it hard to fault him for that. If anything I want to help him heal. I'm used to that role, taking care of others. And he knew that, I think maybe that's why he has opened up to me so much.

>>>>> Elaine, you deserve to feel better physically and emotionally. Please continue to write more. I want to hear more about you. I think you share many things in common with other people on this board. Please share with us, especially if it helps you contain your pain, and cope with it. You don't have to be all alone in these struggles. I know you are feeling kind of paranoid, so don't feel that you have to write specifics. Just tell us what you're feeling. That's enough.

Thanks Li. You are such a big help. I'm grateful for you all and just hope someone will tell me to shut up when I need to. I do tend to overexpose but if I had to choose between that or withdrawing completely, then I'd choose the former -- I don't seem to be able to find the happy-medium yet.

I love you, and I love all babblers. I'm amazed at how much others can offer while still going through so much of their own pain.

 

Re: anyone

Posted by caraher on October 15, 2006, at 12:20:49

In reply to Re: anyone » LadyBug, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 11:21:41

(((El)))

Please stop fearing that you'll "infect" or "poison" others. It doesn't work that way. I still think that you need to find another T, somehow, since you don't really have one now, whether or not you choose to continue to meet with him, whether or not you choose to cover up his unprofessional behavior. You need and deserve the help. If it helps you at all to know I am listening and care, or that others here listen and care, pease "dump" on us as much as you like. You know yourself that you can handle the pain of others; likewise, we can handle yours.

(((El)))

 

more2 * abuse trig

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 12:48:50

In reply to Re: anyone, posted by caraher on October 15, 2006, at 12:20:49

I've never seen a male act like this and in a weird way, it's almost scarier to me than a violent man -- though that's probably just cause I equate physical abuse with love. In the intellectual part of my brain (the part that can earn me a degree) / reading in books / in movies / in another's account, I can understand that it's not, but a piece of my head and my heart laughs, because behind "knowing" that, I still think it's wrong -- that for me it really does mean caring-love and a form of affection. Actually, love speaking-hitter is more frightening to me than raging-hitter because that's when.............no, I can't say it, and I can't stand hearing it, and I can't can't can't tolerate thinking thoughts of it for half a second. But they come all the time now, they never stop! I have always been better at turning it off but there are reminders all the time now that make silencing my head impossible. I know it's not the same. He. even though.... I know it....but still. Someone has to tell me how to TURN IT OFF. It is contaminating him and his goodness. It is too confusing because I interpret everything bad as bad, but everything "good" as bad too. Or maybe there's just never any real good. I don't know! But it makes it impossible for the world to seem anything BUT a terrifying pile of sh*t.

.......okay I know it sounds like gibberish but I'm really terribly frightened by posting this. I want to erase it like I erase everything else in my head. But it doesn't. And this has been in my head so much the past two weeks.....ahhhh!.....F*ck my stupid head..... :""( I can read it sometimes in other's posts but can't tolerate it connected to me - too, too close :( [even hearing the three letter acronym or the "i" word makes me lose it. (((different words))) ]
I'm going insane!! :'(

 

Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 13:40:27

In reply to more2 * abuse trig, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 12:48:50

Hey Elaine,
sounds like you have a lot of intrusive thoughts. I get these a lot sometimes. They make me wish to do dire things to myself. I'm not surprised at all at the desparation in your voice.

Somehow you need to come back to be "Elaine". It's scary, because you're not really sure who you are, after taking so many mind altering medications, and being psychologically tormented for so long.

The fact that you've been able to live through so much is a great testament to your strength and bravery. The fact that you still want to help the man who is causing you so much grief (T) is a testament to your caring nature.

I hope you can spend some of your caring energy on caring for yourself. It sounds like you're doing pretty well, all things considered. Just remember when things start getting crazy in your head that you are NOT ALONE. There are others who have those loud screaming voices and unpleasant images and overactive imaginations (myself, perhaps?)

What kind of things will help you come back to the "here and now" ? How about babble-chat? How about calling someone, like a friend from uni? How about taking a nice warm bath? How about reading a simple book, or a trashy magazine? How about forcing yourself to leave your place, buy a newspaper and read in a cafe for an hour or so.

The latter has been my therapy. I'm kind of depressed this weekend. It's really hard for me to get my work done, and I have a really bad week coming up. So? I don't know what to tell you. Just hang in there, and know that we love you too :)

my pdoc has me on a fairly high dose of seroquel. I went from 50 mg to 300 mg in 10 days. This is a mood stabilizer with anti-depressant effects (haven't really noticed THOSE yet!) and also is one of the atypical antipsychotics. I have noticed a lot less of the ruminating thoughts and nasty flashbacks since starting this treatment (however, note that I also started taking klonopin- a benzodiazepine- at the same time.)

Have you talked to a pdoc about your suicidal thoughts? You need to be treated for this, as soon as possible, in my opinion. I don't want you to hurt yourself.

with love,
Li

 

Re: anyone » ElaineM

Posted by canadagirl on October 15, 2006, at 14:38:58

In reply to anyone, posted by ElaineM on October 14, 2006, at 19:49:35

Sending caring thoughts to you. No, you are definitely NOT infectious. Other than your infectious spirit of kindness and compassion for others that I have seen here, even in the midst of your own pain.

 

Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM

Posted by fayeroe on October 15, 2006, at 19:38:28

In reply to more2 * abuse trig, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 12:48:50

Elaine, I don't know you and I hope you won't mind my jumping into the thread.....I can feel that you are in a lot of pain right now and I wish I could do something to help you out. I could bring tea and we could just sit and relax for awhile.

When I have the intrusive thoughts, I turn to music. If I can't sleep I play a favourite CD pretty loud right by the head of the bed so that I have to pay attention to the lyrics. That might help you. A hot bath, as Li suggested, helps me at times.

You "T" worries me. It sounds as if you're taking care of him more than he caring for you. That can turn into a really sticky situation as you aren't able to heal him.

He has to turn to someone else and confide in a another professional. He also needs to realize what a tremendous burden he is putting up you, his patient. I suggest, gently, that you consider seeing someone else before your situation gets any worse.

Good Luck, Pat

 

Re: more2 * abuse trig » Lindenblüte

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 20:05:53

In reply to Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 13:40:27

>>>The fact that you've been able to live through so much is a great testament to your strength and bravery.

T says that alot. He says I'm brave too, and he wants me to teach him to live with emotional pain the way I have. I've told him that it makes me want to scream when he says that, cause all it takes to be that paralyzed is years of helplessness and a lack of hope. He always says he admires my perseverance. I've felt more like I'm just being dragged along by the current. And I've told him that (before I got sick) I'd always liked pain, so I can take alot. Plus I have a kinda freeze response to alot of things, and then I just act/speak like how the other person wants.

>>>>>The latter has been my therapy. I'm kind of depressed this weekend. It's really hard for me to get my work done, and I have a really bad week coming up. So? I don't know what to tell you. Just hang in there, and know that we love you too :)

I can't do alot of stuff anymore. But I try. I try to walk when I can.
I'm sorry you feel so depressed. This week coming is gonna be bad for me too. (I haven't posted that part yet)

I've refused to take any more psychotropics. I've never found any to have a noticeable effect when taking them - except when coming off. I have had seroquel recommended before (they had everyone on that in ED treatment. It's a popular drug) but I don't want it. Also, I have a pretty huge fear of medications (all kinds) - even antibiotics. It's taken alot for me to comply with all the tooth medications all summer. And now with this other infection....I think this has also been contributing to my panic levels. I'm still skeptical of ativan - still a bit frightening. But I'm not bad at taking it now - though I think I just get a placebo effect from it. T was the one who got me to finally test painkillers. I couldn't do it before. This fear/mild phobia was something LadyT was working with me on.

I'll be thinking of you all this week. I'll try and be strong cause I know you'll be doing the same.
blove, EL

 

caraher, canadagirl

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 20:11:20

In reply to Re: anyone » ElaineM, posted by canadagirl on October 15, 2006, at 14:38:58

caraher, CG, I blove you both. You're both always caring posters.
Sometimes, when I'm in a good period, I find the board the same as LadyT was. Like I say my scary thoughts, or tell sad things, and you guys say that you can hear that I am sad/scared/nervous, and care. And then I can tell that you're listening and hearing what I'm saying. And then I'm not completely alone.

 

Re: more2 » fayeroe

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 20:27:17

In reply to Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM, posted by fayeroe on October 15, 2006, at 19:38:28

Hi fayeroe, I don't ever mind anyone jumping in. You sound like my old T too. I'd like to have tea with you too. I drink tons of it. And I listen to music and do the same thing as you by focusing on singing or saying the lyrics -- sometimes I can re-focus myself. Sometimes it makes me sad cause I can't dance anymore, but I just try and not listen to theater music.

>>>>You "T" worries me. It sounds as if you're taking care of him more than he caring for you. That can turn into a really sticky situation as you aren't able to heal him.

I'm trying to. I figure I cause him so much pain that the least I can do is try and help soothe him or something. I just find it hard to spend time together outside the office. Even though it would help him not be lonely or sad, it scares the sh*t out of me. I feel sort of safe inside his office. I'm already so close to screaming during sessions. Either that or I just lie there like I've been shot (when I manage to come to him during a bad pain time). I just can't stop thinking terrifying thoughts, and I think he's picking up on it, and it hurts him more. I care for him alot but I just can't say the L word. It's too hard. And it makes bad thoughts come more.

>>>>He has to turn to someone else and confide in a another professional. He also needs to realize what a tremendous burden he is putting up you, his patient.

He did start to see one of his old T's, but he's not gonna keep going, and he's not gonna talk about me. (I may have said more details about this earlier, but maybe not, too lazy to re-read)

>>>>>I suggest, gently, that you consider seeing someone else before your situation gets any worse.

Pat, it's amazing that you said that at the very end, cause that's what the final part of my update was about, and why this week coming could be hard, and what I need help with. But I haven't decided if I can write it out cause I'm afraid - though I'll probably just blurt it anyways.

Thanks for the support.
blove, EL

 

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((El)))))))))))))))))) (nm)

Posted by muffled on October 15, 2006, at 21:11:13

In reply to Re: more2 » fayeroe, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 20:27:17

 

Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 21:11:34

In reply to Re: more2 * abuse trig » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 20:05:53

Hey Elaine,
PLEASE take your antibiotics. Your kidneys are a very important part of your body. You are going to need them the rest of your life. You know, when my dad's kidney's are acting up, the first symptom is always an increase in emotionality. SO! just becuase you may think of them as useless pee-processors, they are actually the detox centers for your entire body. If you are thinking about changing or stopping your meds, you should do this with the help of a professional. If you've decided to do it on your own, please be smart and listen to the voice inside that tells you if you're in danger.

The reason why your T is never going to be able to learn to live with fear the way you do (and dare I say myself) is because he didn't go to the same "school" we did. 17 years of that "education" will teach you a lot of acting skills. And a lot of "coping" skills too. Unfortunately when school lets out, we find out we maybe have stuff to learn yet.

(((((((((((Elaine))))))))))))

take care of yourself. I'm worried about you.

Finish the prescription of the antibiotics. trust me- only taking half the pills will only kill the wimpy bacteria. The strong ones remain and multiply. Then you may get I.V. antibiotics. yuck.

((((((((((((kidneys))))))))))))))


drink lots of herbal tea and water, and rest. Get lots of rest.

(((((((Elaine))))))))

hugs for you. Even if you like pain, I know there's a little part of you that appreciates a friendly hug from someone who cares.

love,
lindenblossom

 

Re: more2 » Lindenblüte

Posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 22:40:23

In reply to Re: more2 * abuse trig » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 21:11:34

I promise I will. I am. Don't worry (((Li))) I'm working hard to do what doctors say. I'd probably do anything a doctor said. Or at least try. When I get wishing for death I sometimes get the urge to throw out all my pills and never go to another doctor again. But I've been so good this summer with AB. I've never been on such a long string of them. Though this is the first physician to prescribe them - it's only been dentists before :( I have a hard time fighting the urge to turn away from believing in doctors cause they keep letting me down. But I will finish the pills that young-doc gave me. I promise you. Plus IV's are yucky and I wouldn't want one. And I think of LadyDoc, and she would want me to take medicine - if she doesn't hate me now.

>>>>hugs for you. Even if you like pain, I know there's a little part of you that appreciates a friendly hug from someone who cares.

You are right :"( ((((((Li)))))) I like training myself to feel that way. But I like safe hugs - even though that's scary to say. What happens when you admit that you like hugging trustful people and then the hugs don't ever come. I fear I've spent a whole life conditioning myself to accept the wrong things.

You take care too. You wear your gloves and I will take the huge pills.

I don't know how much I'll post now. T is back and he sent a scary (not violent scary) email. I'm scared. He is upset that I've been missing sessions cause of doc and dentist appointments. (I had an unsuccessful, second! round of endo done on rootcanal#2 last week. He may want to pull it :-( I'm gonna beg for one more round.) But he says I'm not proving that I want to be coming to see him. I sent him one back saying sorry and explaining more what's going on in my head, but he hasn't returned it.

I did have something pretty big to say but I keep feeling like sh*t. I was kinda glad he was home before. I wasn't expecting that message :-( I feel guilty so much for speaking. Maybe I should train myself to not need to post stuff on the board like I do to think I like pain - but who will I get help from then.

blove, EL

ps. (((((mufflie))))

 

(((((((((((((El)))))))))))))Thx (nm) » ElaineM

Posted by muffled on October 15, 2006, at 22:44:37

In reply to Re: more2 » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 22:40:23

 

Re: self-centered jerk

Posted by caraher on October 16, 2006, at 6:32:24

In reply to Re: more2 » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 22:40:23

> I don't know how much I'll post now. T is back and he sent a scary (not violent scary) email. I'm scared. He is upset that I've been missing sessions cause of doc and dentist appointments. (I had an unsuccessful, second! round of endo done on rootcanal#2 last week. He may want to pull it :-( I'm gonna beg for one more round.) But he says I'm not proving that I want to be coming to see him.

I'm sorry, but what a huge a$$hole! Here you are with all this medical $hit, that he knows about, and he's trying to guilt trip you for not seeing him when you're seeing doctors and dentists? What a colossal jerk!

You don't owe him a lick of "proof you want to see him." Whether he's your T or your friend. That just shows how sick he must be (if you're inclined to be more charitable toward him than I am!). Tell him I said so! (OK, I know you probably don't want to even hint that you talk about him - just challenge him about that. Does he want you to get sicker and lose all your teeth? That doesn't sound like a very loving wish!)

How about if he shows some proof that he wants what's good for you instead of desiring to control all your actions and cater to his needs? Not that he hasn't done some good things on your behalf... my point is (partly) that you could, with even more justice, level the charge against him that he hasn't "proven" that he values your needs.

He really seems to view you as his personal property. This is just another form of abuse, no matter how much sentimental window dressing comes with it. He might not be aware of how bad it is, since he's so caught up in his own feelings and getting his own emotional needs met.

In case you can't tell, I'm angry with him right now!

Random thought - do you go to a church or have any religious affiliation? Perhaps something like that could be a source of counseling or at least a sympathetic ear outside the medical establishment (i.e. among people you won't be afraid know your T).

 

Re: more2 **CA triggers, mild** » ElaineM

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 16, 2006, at 8:27:27

In reply to Re: more2 » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 15, 2006, at 22:40:23

>>But I will finish the pills that young-doc gave me. I promise you.

Oh Good- That's very good, Elaine. I hope this young doc is a good listener. Do you have a follow-up appt. with him? You migh ask his opinion on some other health concerns you have. I don't know what your health concerns are (besides the dental stuff) but it sounds like you have something else going on too. Maybe ask young doc for a second opinion? He sounds like a good listener-- and he asks questions too, which is really important.

> You are right :"( ((((((Li)))))) I like training myself to feel that way. But I like safe hugs - even though that's scary to say. What happens when you admit that you like hugging trustful people and then the hugs don't ever come. I fear I've spent a whole life conditioning myself to accept the wrong things.

Well, it's really important that you recognize the fact that you've been brainwashed (no- you haven't been 'conditioning yourself' Kids don't condition themselves. They react to their environment and try to survive the best they can. You never created this set of reactions "on purpose". They are a side effect of being human, and being raised the way you were.

I've been brainwashed too. Maybe we have learned to accomodate certain things as "expectable" but that doesn't mean that they are "acceptable".

My final session with my old T was really important. I told him that I was starting to realize how thorough the brainwashing was, and how I had been told things and taught things my whole life that lead me to my current state of psychological disarray. I proclaimed "I've been brainwashed" he said "That's exactly right". I said "I've had to be an actress to survive my childhood" He said "Yes, you've had to pretend that things were okay, even though they weren't" And then there was this liberating moment when I realized that I DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ACTRESS ANYMORE!! Okay, well, it felt amazing. To realize that I have a choice in the matter. Baby steps, though. Figuring out what part of my upbringing constitutes acceptable and adaptive ways of dealing with my adult world. Figuring out which "brainwashed actressy bits" can be laid to rest.

It's really tough, Elaine. I'm sorry that your T doesn't allow you the freedom in your session to explore what will happen if you actually speak from your heart (i.e. don't pretend, or be an actress). It's super scary. You're exactly right.

To admit that maybe hugs are nice and that you appreciate them... Well, I'm happy to give them, 'cause I know that hugs make the hugger feel better too. ((((((hugger & huggee))))))

> You take care too. You wear your gloves and I will take the huge pills.

you betcha. I did last night. hands are smooth and soft and pink.

> I don't know how much I'll post now. T is back and he sent a scary (not violent scary) email. I'm scared. He is upset that I've been missing sessions cause of doc and dentist appointments. (I had an unsuccessful, second! round of endo done on rootcanal#2 last week. He may want to pull it :-( I'm gonna beg for one more round.) But he says I'm not proving that I want to be coming to see him. I sent him one back saying sorry and explaining more what's going on in my head, but he hasn't returned it.
>
> I did have something pretty big to say but I keep feeling like sh*t. I was kinda glad he was home before. I wasn't expecting that message :-( I feel guilty so much for speaking. Maybe I should train myself to not need to post stuff on the board like I do to think I like pain - but who will I get help from then.


Well, you post when you're ready. Don't force it. You don't "owe" us anything. Just tell us what you need to, in order to get the support you deserve. If you feel like you need pain, you can post that. I know *I* have. On at least 3 separate occasions I asked babblers to abuse me. yeah, not my proudest moments. I still go back to that way of thinking from time to time. I want to be punished. Why? Why do I need to feel punished? I'm really not sure why. Part of it is because my particular brainwashers asked me never to tell secrets. I had new secrets to keep all the time, and old secrets that festered and became necrotic memories. So, when I tell personal things to babble, "secrets" I feel like I'm in a position to deserve and expect punishment, and I even have a part of me that desires that it be meted out, simply for the sake of consistency, so that I can understand the world.

> ps. (((((mufflie))))

yeah, I second that (((((((((muffled)))))))))

and ((((((((((((gentle safe hugs for Elaine))))))))))

love,
Lindenblüte

****************DENTAL TRIGGERS BELOW!!!*******
p.s. the endo procedure I had 3 years ago is still going strong. Involved 3 shots of novocaine, making incision in gum, and cleaning out the infection from the root end and placing a filling in the cap of the roots directly. Getting the granulation tissue out (that's the tissue that kind of fills in the absessed space- but it can kind of go haywire and forget to stop growing- highly susceptible to infection, etc etc.) I had this done by an oral surgeon. I paid out of pocket 650 US dollars. It took 45 minutes, was incredibly easy, because there was only a second of drilling. My crowns were left intact- which saves a LOT of money. I have 2 teeth with roots that have twisted curvy branched canals. This is the only procedure which has "stuck". 4 stiches, and I had to come back a week later to get the stiches removed. Some minimal swelling, and of course I was on narcotic pain relievers for several days.

Ask about this approach, and whether it would work for you. It may be that the infection is hiding out somewhere past the end of the root, and just hanging out until it runs out of room, and then it decides to go back into your root again.

 

hurting **trigger

Posted by ElaineM on October 16, 2006, at 10:50:34

In reply to Re: more2 **CA triggers, mild** » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 16, 2006, at 8:27:27

He sent me an email saying he will respond later today.

Caraher and Li, I can't reply to your answers yet. I'm in so much agony. I can't stand up. It never goes away. It hurts to sit up from lying down. It hurts my stomach to lift knee to step into pants - I had to hold it up with my other hand. It hurts to cough, and sneeze. It hurts to drink enough water to get the horse pills down. I can't stand it. He didn't think I'd need a follow-up so we didn't make one, but I'm going in just after lunch, and I'm hoping I'll be sent to the hospital. But my worst fear is being trapped there like family members I watched die, and STILL not have any relief come. I WANT LadyDoc! :""(

I'm so scared. I can't stand it - it's only been getting worse since August. I don't know how to speak for myself anymore. I get so panicked that I have five minutes to say the right things to fight for my health, that I just give in and turn silent. I'm going to bring my sheet of procedures and symptom-developement, but I always bring it (except last time) and they NEVER want to take the time to read it.
oh god, it's never going to go away. I have a high pain tolerance too (I can get regular, smaller cavities filled without novocaine) but there's never any break and it's grinding me to dust.
I'm scared to go. I can't think except to say, "I HURT!"

I wish you were here with me Li. Caraher, I wish you could come with me, and make them help - if help is even possible. THis is taking too long.
Oh god, I'm so afraid :"(

I love you guys. EL

 

Re: hurting **trigger » ElaineM

Posted by muffled on October 16, 2006, at 11:28:42

In reply to hurting **trigger, posted by ElaineM on October 16, 2006, at 10:50:34

El, I praying for you.
If you don't like it, tell me to stop.
There IS a higher power out there.
The idea of a church related t is not bad.
My T is pastoral type. But only will talk religion if YOU want. If a client don't want no religion she TOTALLY respects that.
Church type T's are just human too.
But mines a winner.
She works on sliding scale too.
Mebbe you could find a T like my T, and that T could advocate for you on your behalf.
El.
Your T.
Forget that.
Just I hope you can get into hosp.
Soon.
Take care,
Muffled

 

Re: hurting **trigger

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 16, 2006, at 15:18:27

In reply to Re: hurting **trigger » ElaineM, posted by muffled on October 16, 2006, at 11:28:42

Hi Elaine,
I'm with you. I'll be there. Say you cannot move, to get up to the bathroom, or to swallow your pills.

If you can't move- you'll be hospitalized.

I assume we're talking kidney infection hospitalization, 'cause that sounds like about the right amount of pain for a major kidney infection.

Seriously, my kidneys just let me know that they remember the last time they were sick. I have SYMPATHY. I can literally feel my kidneys kicking right now. That kind of pain. yes. I know it.


(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Elaine))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

That's how many hugs you need. Call an ambulance if you can't make it to the doctors. Seriously. You need urgent care.

-Li

I'm there with you. I'll bring you some peach colored roses for your hospital room. They are really pretty.

If I don't hear from you for a bit, I will assume that you're getting some treatment.

 

Re: hurting **trigger » ElaineM

Posted by LadyBug on October 16, 2006, at 19:02:21

In reply to hurting **trigger, posted by ElaineM on October 16, 2006, at 10:50:34

(((((((((((((((((((EL)))))))))))))))))))))))
I wish I could hug your pain away!!!! I would in a heart beat. I hope you are getting the treatment you need right now. You can't last with this much pain going on in your body. I'm praying for ya too. Maybe you don't believe in prayer but I do. I'm so sorry you're suffering so much. You are loved and cared about more than you know.
I'll bring you a big soft teddy bear to hug and stay by your side to help make you feel better. I have one by my bed and she's been with me when I've had my surgeries. Her name is Sam and she's a help for me. Right now she has a witches costume on for Halloween, she's so cute!
I wish you well. Let us know what happens next if you can. Take care my friend.
LadyBug

 

Back and awake now

Posted by ElaineM on October 16, 2006, at 20:09:02

In reply to Re: hurting **trigger » ElaineM, posted by LadyBug on October 16, 2006, at 19:02:21

I got an email from T. It was like only 15 sentences long :( but he said I sounded so upset that he was sorry for adding to it. He said he will never send me away. He told me to take three ativans at once if the doc wouldn't do anything. I'm afraid of it cause I usually only take half, or one. Three it so scary so I took two when I go home and felt a little dopey.

I didn't even mention but I was so desperate for someone familiar that I sent a raving email off to LadyDoc a couple of nights ago. She responded but with three sentences and it felt like my heart was breaking. But I guess I can't ask her to go against her rules - though I wasn't asking for treatment, but maybe any talking counts as though it were therapy. I don't know. I try and spin it by thinking that she didn't *have* to respond at all. :( But it still hurt.

=====

I wasn't allowed to be seen at the docs today because of how I've recently seen others. I thought I was only testing, but apparently you can't qualify for their services if you've been treated by others. I came home, wrote T what happened, and cried for a long time. Took the ativan and slept for a little. It's so hard to drink. The sick part of my head thinks, well maybe I'll lose weight. Though when I think of which I'd ultimately always have more, weight becomes insignificant. T is upset cause he doesn't know what to do for me. I can't stand how hard this all is. I'm waiting for an ultrasound appointment that was made for me the first time, though I don't think I'll be able to stand the pressure of the wand. It's at the end of the month too! I don't know what the f*ck people do - how do people not suffer long term damage, or worse - how can stuff take so long.

I'm in so much pain. I hope that I'm brave enough to go to the hospital if I think it's time. Though I can't imagine ever calling an ambulance. I can't express how much I ache for LadyDoc. I feel like my world completely fell apart by having to leave her. It kinda makes me nauceous when I think of her - like I wanna throw up my sadness. I'm sooo sad. Maybe the ativan is good because I'm getting a bit frantic about not being able to get some help.

I'm supposed to have my dentist call and check on me to see if the re-rootcanal magically settled down. But last time he said that I let a month pass cause he never called. I have my fingers crossed. I hope if he wants to see me that I don't look so ill that I seem really disgusting and ugly cause I'll need him to pity me to attempt a third round instead of pulling it. I'll never ever ever leave my house again if it's pulled. Never. I can't afford an implant. I hope I can look helpless -- I definately look pathetic, but that's different. I hope so much that he checks on me, and that I don't just burst into tears before explaining that nothing has improved.

It really really helps me hearing your support. Especially the little visualization scenes - it makes me a bit sad that they could never happen, but mostly it makes me feel appreciative of you all.

The third part of my update, that I was afraid to say before isn't happening now -- it kind of collapsed since I got so ill. I was pretty close though. I'll explain some other time if it ever becomes relevant again.
I love you all so much.
(((((((babble friends))))))))

 

Re: self-centered jerk » caraher

Posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 12:17:44

In reply to Re: self-centered jerk, posted by caraher on October 16, 2006, at 6:32:24

>>>>I'm sorry, but what a huge a$$hole! Here you are with all this medical $hit, that he knows about, and he's trying to guilt trip you for not seeing him when you're seeing doctors and dentists? What a colossal jerk!

He apoligized. He said that sometimes he just gets so angry that he can't do something himself to fix me that he doesn't realize that his frustration could come out in a way that would hurt me more. But he said sorry for questioning my commitment to him - he even said my ability to get to him as much as I do it this type of pain actually proves I have a very strong commitment.

>>>>>Tell him I said so!

No way. That would be rude - like me mentioning Scott so much, and wanting to email him. Plus I already mentioned youngDoc. I don't ever like saying anything aggressive or ungrateful either. It is always better to go with the flow. I feel too weak to be so bold. Plus I never have been that way ever in my life.

>>>>>Does he want you to get sicker and lose all your teeth? That doesn't sound like a very loving wish!

I know you don't want me defending him, but he always wants to come to my tests with me -- I just always chicken out and not let him. ANd with my teeth, he offers ALL the time to pay for them - well, to loan me money for them. I just have always felt strange with the idea of taking money. Small presents are gestures, but that much cash would be like a contract or something. Plus I don't think I'd ever be able to pay him back. He would definately lose his money. Though if this tooth had to be pulled, I would take any alternative to be able to get an implant. Cause without one I'd never leave my house, and probably kill myself. The BDD stuff is bad enough as it is. Plus I've already had to accomodate a small limp. I'm too ugly already. Anyways, he does seem to want to help that way.

>>>>>>He might not be aware of how bad it is

I guess not. Cause he would never hurt me on purpose. He only loves. He does catch on sometimes, or after I respond about something, and he apoligizes, and I can see how the mistake made sense.

>>>>>>>In case you can't tell, I'm angry with him right now!

I can tell. It's strange. You don't sound like you. But it is a restrained anger, and it is motivated by caring, and I know you're dear, so I'm not scared of it. I'm not. I know this will sound really stubborn and stupid of me, but I can't help but feel sad for T when you're mad at him :( I've found that my head is really messed up - it changes opinion so fast, moment to moment. He says something scary to me, and I'm afriad and want to hide or run to someone else, and I forget all the nice things he's done and how much he loves me. Then when i feel he's being attacked, or he does something nice in the moment, or says something nice, or is sooo sad, I forget ever being afraid, or confused or torn. And when I say forget, I mean nearly totally obliterated. I think I am too much of a camellion. Like I only live in the exact moment, and my brain doesn't hold the past in mind to keep others accountable, or think of the future enough to have faith or foresight. And I'm so afraid of ultimately doing the wrong thing, and distrust all my perceptions so thoroughly, that I've become paralyzed. (way before him)

>>>>>>>do you go to a church or have any religious affiliation? Perhaps something like that could be a source of counseling or at least a sympathetic ear outside the medical establishment (i.e. among people you won't be afraid know your T).

I don't, but it's strange that you say that. I sometimes think that some of you can read my mind.

Caraher, I appreciate your "energy", it makes me feel protected - or as much as you can over the internet. (((((caraher)))))

My sister!!! came over this morning. She took half a day off of work to drive here to give me her percocet. She doesn't need them anymore. THey work better for me I think. Or I don't know, maybe I'm out of it. THey are letting me sit a longtime today to type. I feel bad when I can't write to others (though I know I don't have to feel bad). I still can't do all the things I mentioned yesterday (like the pants and stuff) and it still hurts like h*ll but it's taken away the acid-like bite to the stabs. AND I have been able to drink more today. I'm a bit afraid about introducing a new pill, but I really don't have a choice at all. It is hard enough to take one pill, but REALLY hard for me to take two or more at a time. But I need to try so I can tolerate being awake.

blove EL.

 

more dental stuff, ? **trig mild** » Lindenblüte

Posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 12:42:00

In reply to Re: more2 **CA triggers, mild** » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 16, 2006, at 8:27:27

>>>>>>Getting the granulation tissue out

Granulation tissue, is that something that he would be able to plainly see when he opened up a canal. He only opened up one of the front canals last time (against my wishes, cause I begged him to try the back one cause it's the back of the tooth that's most sensitive to tap-tests). When he opened it he said that it looked "clean".

He's had problems cause the apex-locater doesn't read my canals properly. He goes by taking alot of xrays and reading those the best he can. I spent most of my chair time crying cause I just KNEW that him refusing to open the back canal would mean that the pain would still be the same as before. ALL for nothing again!! The hygenist switched halfway through my procedure and she said, "...you've done the endo already! Did you find the extra canal?" ANd the dentist was like, "There is none. I opened the front. If there is a problem it would be coming from here" And I just looked up at the girl wanting her to make eye contact so I could stare at her to pursue it for me, but she didn't. So that's when I started crying. And I hate it cause the tears slide down your face and pool at your collar.

>>>>>>Ask about this approach

Does it have an exact name in dental terminology? ...so I won't sound so much like an arm-chair dentist. *sigh*

>>>>>>>It may be that the infection is hiding out somewhere past the end of the root,

Would he be able to see that on an xray? How do you get proof that it's there? ...or do you have to kinda do exploratory surgury? is there some kinda way to test for it?

I'm so dejected about my teeth. This one has been two and half months. Who goes that long with this kind of pain. THey wouldn't expect someone to live with a cavity for two months. Genetics and anorexia have found yet another way to f*ck me over. I get so down at times like this cause, I think the anorexia saved me back then, but now, after the "best" of it is over, I'm finding that it not only just postponed any suffering I was going through then, but created INFINITE amounts more. I used to be so proud that I had a severe case :"( I did, but didn't really, know how much it destroyed the human body. Why couldn't I just diet like a regular person. .....okay, I'm getting really down. gotta stop.

I know it's a sh*tty topic Li, but I'd appreciate any tooth info. You definately know from experience. Whenever you're have time, or are bored.

 

deja vu

Posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 15:06:52

In reply to more dental stuff, ? **trig mild** » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 12:42:00

Guess what, Dentist didn't call me again. I don't even care now. He just can't hear me - my teeth don't matter to him and I don't pay regular amounts like everyone else with good coverage. he's just another one of many who won't help. i can't even stand how much vertigo these things give me - pills are stupid. They make me more nervous. It just still hurts to have liquid when they die down. I wonder if I can get to T tomorrow. I'm afraid of what would happen if I cried or doubled over in public. People think sick people are gross. I feel like I'm trying really hard. :( Why can't something good ever happen.

 

Re: deja vu

Posted by muffled on October 17, 2006, at 15:48:14

In reply to deja vu, posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 15:06:52

Sorry El. Can you call the dentist?
Which teeth are involved?
Maybe you could start charging your T for T? Then you would have some money?
Mebbe I crazy?
I think you ARE trying hard.
Give yourself a break somehow if you can.
Try and think of your good qualities.
Cuz you are very kind.
Take care,
Thinking of you,
wishing I was smarter and could be more help :-(
But I can listen.
Muffled

 

Re: more dental stuff, ? **trig mild** » ElaineM

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 17, 2006, at 17:37:50

In reply to more dental stuff, ? **trig mild** » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 12:42:00

My front teeth are the ones that have had the worst root canals and the crooked cracked roots.

In my case the granulation tissue is slightly visible because it pokes out ever so slightly- looks like my gum is slightly redder in between these two teeth.

It shows up clearly in my xrays. looks like slightly paler than surrounding tissue. I can feel it in my gums. that area is puffier- and kept getting puffier over the years until it flared up the last time.

The procedure involved gum flap resection. Apical treatment (which involves placing some kind of a heated glass? or amalgam? filling in the end of the root.

Ask your endo about an apical root filling.

make him explain it to you. Tell him one of your bloved friends had it and has had VERY good results. If he doesn't do it, ask him for a referral for an oral surgeon (my oral surgeon was such a sweetie- probably because he also does a lot of cosmetic surgery too!)

-Li


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