Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 673596

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What do you guys think?

Posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

I saw my Pdoc last night. He used to just prescribe meds but now he seems to be wanting to get into therapy w/me, which is o.k., I could use another point of view.

In any case, it was difficult to say the least. I wrote in my last post about wanting to try hypnotism and my T agreeing. My Pdoc, naturally, does not think it's a good idea, because he believes that any memories that would come forth would mostly likely be false, just as has been already discussed on this board.

Anyway, I didn't tell him I was thinking about the hypnosis seriously, that's not what our conversation was about. I've mentioned before that I believe/know that I have a puzzle piece missing to my abuse, to my memory. His take on this what that I was wrong, and I was retraumatizing myself by continuing to believe it. As long as I believed it, I would forever be in the traumatization cycle. Furthermore, there is no treatment whatsoever for dealing with this kind of thing.

I was stunned. He said to separate out the "true" memories from this "fantasy of the unknown memory" and only work on the true memories. Well, I've been working on the true memories for years and something is still missing.

I left crying, because he made me feel hopeless and I didn't think he believed me about this "other" memory. As my T pointed out, in a way he did a good job of retraumatizing me himself, in me having to replay the denial in my own head, not being believed etc.

Any opinions? I know the Pdoc is a neuro guy, very scientifically based, so maybe he is right. But he doesnt seem to leave room for other types of treatment. As I've said before, if I have a dream about something and I'm able to pull out incredible insights, etc., I don't care if the dream is true.

Maybe he's right and I should let go. But everytime I try to do that, something happens and I end up right back where I was. Something is missing, and to be told that it's just me retraumatizing myself, well, that seems wrong to me.

any opinions would be appreciated. BTW, I am going forward w/the hypnosis idea despite his opinion.
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? » antigua

Posted by fallsfall on August 4, 2006, at 8:40:43

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

Your feeling that something is missing is an important insight. When a therapist "interprets" a dream, the most important piece of data is what the patient thinks it means. Your feelings on this are what you need to go with.

Good luck

 

Re: What do you guys think? antigua

Posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 13:21:15

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

Yeah, i'm missing stuff too.
I keep it in a box in my head.
I work hard to keep the box closed.
But sometimes it starts to open and I freak and goto make it shut again.
Goto keep it shut.
I hope the hypnosis goes ok.
I would be way too scared to do that.
But I am the same, going in circles cuz the box keeps opening a bit and I goto scramble to keep it shut. I just can't seem to keep it shut.
But I DON'T wanto open it.
I just want to seal it shut.
This is proly dumb.
Sorry.
Take special care,
Muffly

 

Re: What do you guys think? antigua

Posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 15:01:03

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

I dunno...

Actually, I do know my own opinion, which is closer to your pdoc's than your T's, so I'm going to tell you my opinion only after a disclaimer: this is my opinion. It doesn't mean anything beyond that. You don't have to think about it -- you don't even have to read it, really. OK, now that's done...

It sounds to me as though there's still some healing to be done, but I don't know that there's a missing piece from your memory, so much as a missing piece from your acceptance. It "feels" to me as though you're trying to find a reason, for something without a reason. It kinda feels to me that looking for that reason keeps the trauma active, while accepting that terrible things can happen for no reason at all -- scary as that is -- can maybe bring along the final healing. Does that make sense?

Mind you, I have some experience with false memories -- not my own, but second hand -- so I tend to be very skeptical. (Which is why I kept my mouth shut on the last thread...) False memories can be devastating, and I would hate to find out that you've got more trauma to dig through because someone wasn't quite careful enough.

I've got a kinda similar situation myself -- not hypnosis, but asking my T to refer me for psychological testing because of an obsession of mine. She refused: she said that it wouldn't stop my obsession, but it might make things worse. She said that I need to learn to accept uncertainty, that getting over the obsession would only happen when I worked through the stuff that led to it in the first place. I know that sounds kinda opposite -- you're trying to find out what led to something, after all -- but I wonder if it's possible that you DO already remember it all, but can't quite accept that what you remember is "enough" to cause you this trauma? Does that make sense?

Whatever you decide to do, though, I hope it works out well for you.

 

Hey cool Racer Racer

Posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 16:07:31

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? antigua, posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 15:01:03

Gonna have to think on that. Sounds very interesting. I like it. Thanks. I know its not my thread but I just wanted to say that.
And thanks to Antigua for starting this thread too.
Good on ya.
Muffled

 

Re: What do you guys think? antigua

Posted by madeline on August 4, 2006, at 16:18:50

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

I am with your pdoc and Racer. There seems to be more evidence of false memories coming up during hypnosis, than real memories.

However, I completely understand the "missing" feeling. It's as though it is right there on the tip of your tongue, but you just can't seem to bring it out.

I tried everything, I even thought I had "broken the amnesia" and revealed what I thought was the gods honest truth to my therapist. Only to sit down and watch Sybil again two days later and saw my "memory" played out right there on the screen. I had just applied my childhood to that movie and it was wrong.

Over time I realized that it just didn't matter to me one way or the other. In fact, I now thank my brain for potentially shielding me from the really bad stuff that may be in there.

I still have to deal with the stuff I know, and the stuff I don't? well, I have to deal with that to.

But I realize that I may never know what all happened to me. That's fine. I'm okay with not knowing.

Hope this helps.

Maddie

 

Re: What do you guys think?

Posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 19:28:27

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? antigua, posted by madeline on August 4, 2006, at 16:18:50

I agree with Racer.

One model of memory... Is that the mind is like a blank slate onto which experiences are etched. Recall is like looking at this record of ones experiences.

But memory doesn't work like that... Memory is an active process. It isn't about locating an accurate record of the past it is about constructing a narritave in the present. Memories are notoriously bad. Very bad indeed. There isn't very much evidence to support the notion that people recall memories with hypnosis that are as accurate as memories people have without hypnosis. There is a great deal of evidence to support the notion that hypnosis can foster mistaking imaginings or mental images or thoughts or other internally generated mental phenomena (and yes of course therapists suggestion)... as memories.

bit like if you go hunting and you ask
is it a deer?
is it a deer?
is it a deer?
over and over
sooner or later noise in the channel will give you a false positive.
if you go to be hypnotised and what you are wanting to know is:

what?

what would you think you could 'remember' that would help you? how would it help you?

rememberings (whether veridical or not) are distressing. that is something to talk about. that is something that can be talked about and can be processed without either the therapist or you having to committ to whether they are veridical or not.

 

Re: What do you guys think? » antigua

Posted by fallsfall on August 5, 2006, at 10:18:26

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

Oh Antigua, I'm so sorry he made you cry. I think everyone has opinions about hypnosis and whether recovering your memories is a good thing or not. And there is so much old information about how the brain stores trauma, as opposed to other kinds of input. There is a lot to sort through. But the bottom line is that you've decided to go forward with the hypnosis. And I think you've done enough thinking about this that you are doing what is best for you.
At my group the other night we were talking about the holes in our memories. Everyone had a level of frustration about the holes, how did things go from A to B? And while everyone had outside evidence for the memories they do have, like you do, they WANT the details. The reasons are very individual but the common thread was that knowing what happened might help the little girl inside know that it wasn't her fault -- in any way. I struggle with this a lot.
The one think I know for sure is that no matter how much you do or don't remember, the work remains the same. Accepting that it happened, grieving that it happened, being angry that it happened and figuring out how to make a relationship to our own individual histories. It is so much harder than it sounds.
I think about those people who have loved ones who go missing. After a number of years, everyone pretty much accepts that the missing person has died. But things are incomplete. It is hard to mourn the thing that is incomplete. We as humans need closure and for folks like you and me, knowledge is an important part of the closure. How can you process something without going over the details (again and again and again)? It is less about accepting that it HAPPENED than it is about the how, when, where and yes, why.
So I understand the quest for the details. And btw, I think the word "details" is probably "better" than the word memories. I know you absolutely know you were abused. I hope the hypnosis is successful.
Hugs,
Daisy

 

Thanks everyone

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 13:33:36

In reply to What do you guys think?, posted by antigua on August 4, 2006, at 8:17:59

I really appreciate it that everyone is so honest with their opinions. I may not want to hear it, but it's better that I do.
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? Racer

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:06:37

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? antigua, posted by Racer on August 4, 2006, at 15:01:03


> It sounds to me as though there's still some healing to be done, but I don't know that there's a missing piece from your memory, so much as a missing piece from your acceptance. It "feels" to me as though you're trying to find a reason, for something without a reason. It kinda feels to me that looking for that reason keeps the trauma active, while accepting that terrible things can happen for no reason at all -- scary as that is -- can maybe bring along the final healing. Does that make sense?

,\<< It makes sense, but I'm not looking for a reason. The reasons of why the abuse occurred have been dealt with--a narcissicistic, cruel, sick father; an unavailable weak mother; nobody watching out for me, etc. I'm not looking for why. Why leads nowhere and I've certainly accepted the why.

> False memories can be devastating, and I would hate to find out that you've got more trauma to dig through because someone wasn't quite careful enough.

<<I appreciate what you're saying.
>
> I've got a kinda similar situation myself -- not hypnosis, but asking my T to refer me for psychological testing because of an obsession of mine. She refused: she said that it wouldn't stop my obsession, but it might make things worse. She said that I need to learn to accept uncertainty, that getting over the obsession would only happen when I worked through the stuff that led to it in the first place.

<<I think this is partially why I am so upset. I've never been told before that I'm retraumatizing myself by trying to find my way through something that my very being tells me exists. It hadn't ever occurred to me that I couldn't eventually deal with this, but that's what my Pdoc is saying. I always had hope.

>>I know that sounds kinda opposite -- you're trying to find out what led to something, after all -- but I wonder if it's possible that you DO already remember it all, but can't quite accept that what you remember is "enough" to cause you this trauma? Does that make sense?

<<I'm don't think I'm trying to find out what led to something. I just know that something is there. it may be nothing; a little kid's memory that's mixed up with the abuse, and I'd be thrilled if it's nothing. But there are enough signs around this particular memory that I am only able to access it so far and then terror takes over.
>
> Whatever you decide to do, though, I hope it works out well for you.

Thank you, Racer, for your comments. If you think my thinking is way out of line, let me know. This is a new concept for me and I'm trying to deal with it.
thanks,
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? muffled

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:07:43

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? antigua, posted by muffled on August 4, 2006, at 13:21:15

Thanks muffled. I wish I could open that Pandora's box, but I understand your wish to keep yours closed..
best,
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? madeline

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:11:49

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? antigua, posted by madeline on August 4, 2006, at 16:18:50

Your reply was the scariest of all for me because it came too close to home.

>I completely understand the "missing" feeling. It's as though it is right there on the tip of your tongue, but you just can't seem to bring it out.

<<yes, that's what it feels like.

> Over time I realized that it just didn't matter to me one way or the other. In fact, I now thank my brain for potentially shielding me from the really bad stuff that may be in there.

<<how did you get past the block? How did you disintegrate it? By just accepting that you will never know? I've tried that, but maybe I just need to go back to the beginning.
>
> But I realize that I may never know what all happened to me. That's fine. I'm okay with not knowing.

<<I'm glad you're o.k. with not knowing. It's something I have to think about.

Thanks very much, Maddie. I appreciate you taking the time to help.
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? Estella

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:23:39

In reply to Re: What do you guys think?, posted by Estella on August 4, 2006, at 19:28:27

It would stop the haunting of the partial bit of what I do remember and the block would be broken and I'd be finished with therapy. How's that for optomism?
thanks for your opinion,
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think? fallsfall

Posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:30:47

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? » antigua, posted by fallsfall on August 5, 2006, at 10:18:26

Thank you both of you. I guess I'm just having a really hard time articulating what this means to me. In some ways I feel that the unknowing is threatening my sanity. I could access the beginning parts quite clearly until I was in my 20s, but I've lost it since then. There is a feeling associated w/it that is unlike any other feeling I've ever experienced, and I can recognize it in a second if it appears. There's a tiger involved too (yes, sounds silly)but it's there.

I'm going to have to be really careful with the hypnosis, I can see that now. I really don't want to do anything to make this more damaging.

Hope you two are having a great time together.
love,
antigua

 

Re: What do you guys think?

Posted by Estella on August 5, 2006, at 19:22:16

In reply to Re: What do you guys think? Estella, posted by antigua on August 5, 2006, at 14:23:39

<<I'm don't think I'm trying to find out what led to something. I just know that something is there. it may be nothing; a little kid's memory that's mixed up with the abuse, and I'd be thrilled if it's nothing. But there are enough signs around this particular memory that I am only able to access it so far and then terror takes over.

Terror takes over...

What have you learned about self soothing and emotion regulation? Maybe... You could do this by learning and practicing those skills. I tend to think that memories will come when they are good and ready.


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