Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 669755

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

He's leaving ****triggers****

Posted by ElaineM on July 23, 2006, at 16:29:16

mentions wanting to die, illness and relationship with T
*********************

I'm sorry I haven't been very attentive to recent posts. When I'm capable of it, I like being able to write to others -- it makes me feel like I have a small purpose. But I'm having a really hard time. And I feel bad flooding my silly personal cr@p over the board -- It's one thing to sink myself, but another to drown others. I know that's kinda what this place is for, but I can't help feeling guilty. [thanks c for explaining otherwise]

Over the last week and a half, my body has collapsed and I'm in agony nearly 24hours a day. Sometimes I cry when I wake up, BECAUSE I've woken up. I'm in so much pain, and so alone and scared. I want each day to be over, but then all that's waiting is a tomorrow that looks exactly the same! Drugs don't help -- at least not at the doses I can tolerate. Any higher and I lose balance and motor control.

I miss my Dr. more than I can say -- so much I feel I could throw-up. My body was broken (and will stay that way), but she was holding my heart together. Knowing she was watching me, while others turned their backs, was all that was getting me from one day to the next. I've lost someone I cared for infinately more than my actual mother! [I feel disgusted with myself for saying that, but it's true]

My T is leaving on vacation now. I asked him if he will be in phone contact and he said, "No, I don't think that can be arranged." I'll never have been so thoroughly alone!! I've grown used to no husband, no friends, no family support, but that only inflated the importance of my physician and T (and recently, you guys). Everyone is leaving!!!

The scariest thing is I'm physically stranded. I can't leave my place. I don't have anyone to help me if I needed to go to the hospital. It is a comfort having him in my life cause I always imagine him looking out for me if I end up in the hospital (not letting the other doctors ignore me or treat me poorly cause I'm a nobody). That's so selfish! I'm such a sneeky user! I use him more than he uses me, and I don't deserve him! And I have nothing to do to kill the endless hours -- nothing distracts from the pains anyways. My T usually talks with me a few times every day! God, I usually never go more than two or three days without being with him! What am I going to do? I even had the stupid feeling that he would take me with him. Crazy girl!! He's always saying how much he wants to show his affection, and that I'm never out of his thoughts or his heart....he says he wants to hold onto me forever....why won't he say he'll try to call me once. It's making me so nervous that there is no emergency number.

He gave me a present last session to help me think of him while he's gone. But that's not the problem! I'll be thinking too much already. It's the functioning I need help with. The physical stuff has me wishing for death way more than the emotional hurt. I'm used to never being able to rely on my brain or my heart, but I must always have my body!! And pain is like a rip-tide -- it grabs onto you a drags you under.

(I want my doctor!!!!!! I miss her. I want her to cure me or kill me -- I don't care which, as long as it's one of them.)

Something else has happened in recent sessions that's confusing me, but I don't think I can write it out now. (Once again, this is so long already!) I see him once more normally, and then he's letting me see him an extra time the night before he leaves. He is nice when he doesn't have to be. I'm afraid I won't be able to not cry. I don't do it infront of him very often now, but I don't think I'll be able to help it. And crying makes me look even uglier! (I even feel like you guys can see my tears through the screen. Dumb!) He says he wants to prove to me that he'll miss me but I'm sure he will be glad to leave. I always make men hate, or leave. I wish I was beautiful and smart and lovely. I want to beg him to not go, but I know that that wouldn't change his plans. I don't know what to do! Maybe I'll just completely zone-out on pills while he's gone. I don't know!!!

I'm sorry for writing all this. I don't want to hurt others. I don't know what else to do. I'm tired of this worthless body. I'm tired of SI. I'm tired of tears and pills. There is writing on here and nothingness! Please don't hate me. I'm sorry I don't know how to help myself.

EL

 

Re: He's leaving ****triggers****

Posted by caraher on July 23, 2006, at 18:19:08

In reply to He's leaving ****triggers****, posted by ElaineM on July 23, 2006, at 16:29:16

> I feel bad flooding my silly personal cr@p over the board -- It's one thing to sink myself, but another to drown others. I know that's kinda what this place is for, but I can't help feeling guilty. [thanks c for explaining otherwise]

there's nothing silly about it at all! Nobody is drowning in your misery except you. And we want to hear how you are really doing and feel that we have a small purpose ourselves if we can help at all!


> Over the last week and a half, my body has collapsed and I'm in agony nearly 24hours a day.

(((Elaine))) That sounds truly awful! I don't know anything (at least not that I remember right now) about the details of your medical problems, but I hope there's nothing irreversible about your new misery. I know you say your body is "broken" and will stay that way, but it sounds like this is an abrupt turn for the worse. I hope things get much more bearable at least!

>I've lost someone I cared for infinately more than my actual mother! [I feel disgusted with myself for saying that, but it's true]

Please be kind to yourself! You're just stating a fact about your emotions; you're being honest. It may be sad that you don't feel closer to your mother, but I doubt you'd tell me or anyone else here I was disgusting because I felt much closer to someone else!

> My T is leaving on vacation now. I asked him if he will be in phone contact and he said, "No, I don't think that can be arranged." I'll never have been so thoroughly alone!! I've grown used to no husband, no friends, no family support, but that only inflated the importance of my physician and T (and recently, you guys). Everyone is leaving!!!

It's not permanent. And someone will always be here online!

> The scariest thing is I'm physically stranded. I can't leave my place. I don't have anyone to help me if I needed to go to the hospital.

I hope I don't sound like a smart-*ss, but don't they have ambulances where you are?

It sounds as if you are reluctant to go beyond just one or two people for help, and of course you feel helpless if one or both happen to be unavailable. Perhaps you can take this vacation as an opportunity to find out that there are other people in the world willing to help you. Maybe there's a church group that would be willing to have a member drop by once a day just to check how you're doing? I admit that I don't know all the details of your living situation and your community, but I do know that your doc and your T are not the only people capable of doing things for you. Reaching out for help is awfully hard to do, but what have you got to lose?

> It is a comfort having him in my life cause I always imagine him looking out for me if I end up in the hospital (not letting the other doctors ignore me or treat me poorly cause I'm a nobody).

Who says you're a nobody? You're not a nobody! If a doctor ever treats you like a nobody that doctor is to blame, not you!

> That's so selfish! I'm such a sneeky user! I use him more than he uses me, and I don't deserve him!

That isn't selfishness - it's fear. It's perfectly natural to want someone who can protect you from what you fear.

As far as your "using" him, it's sad to see you say he uses you, no matter how you rank the relative degrees of "using." Nobody should ever feel "used" by their T - period! I fully agree that you don't deserve him - you deserve far better!!! The very fact that his taking a vacation leaves you feeling this desperate suggests that he may not be all that healthy for you.

A good therapist would want you to be more independent than that. Maybe he's actually trying to help you. Perhaps that's why he doesn't want to promise to call you or give an emergency contact - because he wants you to learn that life goes on without him?

> And crying makes me look even uglier! (I even feel like you guys can see my tears through the screen. Dumb!) He says he wants to prove to me that he'll miss me but I'm sure he will be glad to leave. I always make men hate, or leave. I wish I was beautiful and smart and lovely.

Elaine, I have no idea what you look like, but I know you're smart and lovely from what you've written here. Look at your (misplaced) concern for bringing others down with your problems! Consider the satisfaction you take in helping others. And notice how well you write, even in your current pain. Perhaps you don't have much "skin-deep" beauty these days, especially through your illness - though I'd guess you see yourself in a "funhouse mirror" distortion that others don't. But whether or not you lie to yourself when you look in the mirror, know that you are beautiful even through the pain, problems, worries, etc.

Please continue to let us know how you're doing!

 

Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM

Posted by LadyBug on July 23, 2006, at 18:55:07

In reply to He's leaving ****triggers****, posted by ElaineM on July 23, 2006, at 16:29:16

El
I have a hug for you and I wish I could take your pain away. I hope you tell him before he leaves how much you are hurting and that you need a plan in place of what to do should you need someone to help you while he's gone. He won't know unless you tell him. Guys are just this way, T or not, we have to explain it too them word for word. I've had to learn over the years how to work out the situation before my T leaves to go on vacation. It's taken us a lot of trial and error, lots of pain for me to go through. But we do have a system now. She calls me from her cell phone from the airport and leaves me a voice mail. I can listen to it while she is gone. It's a comfort to me. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's so painful to feel so alone. The time will pass and he will be back. I wish your Dr. was still there for you. You do have us for now and we understand and care.
This might not be the best reply. I had surgery 6 days ago and my head is not clear from the pain meds. I've only been taking 1/2 pill maybe 2 times a day and my brain is so foggy I can't stand it. It has helped the pain but I want my life back. Last night I did't sleep cuz I did't take any pain med. and after about 5:30 am I said to heck with it and took 1/2 pill just to get some sleep. Everytime I went to sleep I'd cough and feel like my guts were going to come out. I swear I won't take anymore I don't care if I don't sleep till next week. I hate the feeling. Sorry to make this part of my post. It's what's going on in my life right now. I just wanted you to know I understand your pain. It hurts. And I'm sorry for you. You get to the point of doing anything to take the pain away. Remember no matter how much it hurts, it will pass. It always does. It comes to a more tolerable level. It's never easy. I hope your T gives you something substancial to hold on to when you are at the end of your rope. My T is the knot I tie at the end of my rope when I can't hang on by myself anymore.
I hope to hear more from you. You matter to me.
Hugs
LadyBug

 

Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM

Posted by MidnightBlue on July 23, 2006, at 21:30:31

In reply to He's leaving ****triggers****, posted by ElaineM on July 23, 2006, at 16:29:16

Elaine,

I'm so sorry you are hurting so much both physically and emotionally. If you could give us some clues about your situation we could help you better.

About all we know is that you are very well educated, caring and sensitive, suffering from some sort of disease/physical ailment and that you are estranged from your family. I assume you have recently graduated from college since you have said you are losing all resources connected to your studies.

We don't know if you are in a large city (where there might be better resources) or small. In the United States or elsewhere. Whether or not you are in contact with others who have your physical problem or an organization that provides information and support. Nor do we know how limited your financial resourses might be.

Your world is very small and it seems that is to some degree your choice. A better T would help you expand that world. There are ways to break out of your pain and isolation but you need to reach out to others.

MidnightBlue

 

Re: He's leaving

Posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 22:57:14

In reply to Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on July 23, 2006, at 21:30:31

((((Elaine))))

I'm so sorry that you're feeling alone and that you're in pain. I'm really sleepy right now, otherwise I'd say more. I just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you. Hope you find some relief, even if for a few moments :o)

yours,
-ll

 

Today

Posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 8:15:08

In reply to Re: He's leaving, posted by llrrrpp on July 23, 2006, at 22:57:14

I'm going down to my last official session right now. I'm bringing him a present, cause he was nice enough to give me one. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for talking to me you guys, it means alot. I'll respond to your posts later today. I might ask him to take me to the medical center once before he goes. The mean receptionist at my cardiologists won't fax out any info, even when I keep calling her to request it. She says "Ya sure hun" and then doesn't do it. She talks to me like I'm 12. I don't know how to get her to respect me, or at least pity me. Blah.

EL

 

Re: Today

Posted by LadyBug on July 24, 2006, at 9:41:36

In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 8:15:08

Good Luck with everything~

 

response: fear Ľ caraher

Posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 16:19:27

In reply to Re: He's leaving ****triggers****, posted by caraher on July 23, 2006, at 18:19:08

Caraher, you are so generous in all you write -- I don't understand. But the reason you can't remember what I have is because I've never come out and said it. I don't want to say it cause then I'll feel like it's a part of me. And it's not. It's a life-suck that lives inside me - I hate it. I hate myself that I'm ill. I hate that I can be sick and alive at the same time. I'm sorry to be cryptic, but I still believe sometimes that if I don't read about, or talk about, or write about it, that it will disappear. The only thing I feel comfortable saying is that I have alot of specialists, do alot of tests, and use alot of pain killers. And that it makes it hard to sleep and get around.

The most upsetting part is that there are differing diagnosis'. So in the end, it's like they cancel each other out, and nothing gets done. Each one asks what the other guy is doing, and when I say "Nothing", they say versions of "Oh it must not be as bad." The thing is though is that it's getting slowly worse. I was normal last fall -- now I'm a decrepit 25/95year old who's becoming housebound.
I appreciate you saying not to lose hope, but I've been looking for the past 8 months for the smallest sign of encouragement to grab onto, and it's nowhere to be found. That's why I focus so much of my energy on being around someone, anyone (my T). I couldn't bare crumbling like this alone.

I know people are online sometimes -- and it does help a little -- but I feel like I'm a vortex of need. I sometimes feel like I need more than the world can give me. No, you don't sound like a smart@ss, cause Yes there are ambulances. I sort of was referring to having someone there to calm me, and kill time while waiting, and sit with me through more tests, and ride with me there. Also, I can't really pay for the cost. My T would, my parents might if he asked them. But on my own -- no. My parents said they don't want to hear about "the thing" until I'm in a hospital. And I couldn't bare hearing their insensitive cr@p anyways. If I'm invalidated one more time, I'll implode.

I am reluctant to depend on others. But really, there are no others. Who would want to sign on to be a pathetic girl's caretaker? I couldn't pay someone. I haven't been to church since I was 10. I don't know who would help. I'm not afraid of begging for help. I do it all the time with doctors. Debase myself hoping to win my health. Or at least a few minutes longer in their offices. THe only one I don't have to beg to is my T.

I only say I'm a nobody because I don't have coverage. I've seen how people get treated in the hospital when the-bottom-line is first in their mind. It is true -- fear is the number one thing that motivates me. Fear of not being able to care for myself. Fear of being sick alone. Fear of completely losing the ability to walk. And fear of losing the last person in my life (T). That's it. That's all I think about.

I don't mean that he uses me in a sinister way. He uses me as his friend. And if that's all the wants, after putting up with my horribleness for so long, than he can have it.

My T says differently, He says I need to work more on connections. That I don't commit to actions or people, and that is what has ruined my emotional life. I think that he just doesn't want to call me (i'd never call him unless it was an emergency) is because he's going away with someone real. Probably someone beautiful and mature and intellectual. That's okay. He can look for the things I'm not, in someone else. I'm okay with that. I don't need his whole heart, only a small piece. I do agree however, that normally a good T would help their client be more independant. I think I'm too far gone. Too child-like and ignorant. And now, too sickly. I think he started treating me differently because he thinks I'm dying. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Thank you so much for saying that I write well. I don't really, but considering that that's all I do now, I'd like for it to be true. My T has me write for him. He always laughs (not in a mean way) and says my writing is very naked. He told me, "You write too honestly. Like a little child". I used to write school stuff really well. But when it comes to my thoughts, I just explode in run-on babble cause I'm so desperate to make sure I'm heard -- that people can understand me.

It is very very hard to hear you say that I'm a beautiful person. I was not always the person all my symptoms paint me. They have made me become even uglier than I am. I wish I could go back a year. I was okay with myself then. Even the anorexia was being controlled. I almost had my life back. If there seems to be someone you can tolerate inside all my words, then it's probably the remainder of that old me. I wish there was more.

Thank for being so kind. I've never been so nervous and fearful before, and I know it's hard to witness others be like that. (((caraher)))

ELaine

 

He's leaving Ľ LadyBug

Posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 16:35:58

In reply to Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM, posted by LadyBug on July 23, 2006, at 18:55:07

Hugs are always welcome LadyBug. I've told him before how much I'm worrying about this. I do think he's concerned about leaving me alone, in such a poor physical state. But I'd never truely want him to not go on vacation because of me. I'll talk about today's session later (I'm still wonky from it) but he said that the best he could do was check his office messages once. So if I had to go to the hospital, to say which one, and he would know where to come when he gets back. I don't feel comforted by that at all, but what can I do?! Your T sounds quite accomodating -- it's so nice of her to call you before her plane leaves. And she visits you too right? I miss my old T.

Pain meds huh? I sympathize. They are not the best things to be on if your trying to be lucid. It is always such a dilemma for me about whether to take some or not. Is it worth it? Do I need it? I worry about wasting the potency of meds on anything less than agony, so I tend to push myself to go as long as possible without. However, considering you just had surgury, you shouldn't feel like you need to be liberal with dosing. Being able to get some sleep helps so much.

I feel like I know you. Or at least a bit of what you're going through. Often, I can't talk to others about medical stuff, or pain, because it's just too emotional of a subject. But I want to hug you right back.

You are very dear for writing while in so much pain. Sometimes I write to try and distract from it, but alot of the time it's unavoidable.
I hope your recovery moves along quickly. It is so strange how people seem to go through similar things that the same time. I was just saying that pain comes in clusters, and hearts break in bunches.
(((Lady)))

take care of yourself too, EL

 

Re: He's leaving Ľ MidnightBlue

Posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 19:58:57

In reply to Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on July 23, 2006, at 21:30:31

Midnight: I do live in a large city. I never read anything about my problem cause that just upsets me. And I don't want to get addicted to the internet, reading about all worst-case scenarios -- I'm afraid to work myself up into even more of a frenzy. I'm terrified I'll read that it's even more hopeless for me than it already feels. I don't know of any organizations. I don't have any coverage at all right now. I'm not even getting disability benefits yet. (I have an interview soon) I can't even afford to get additional repairs done on my teeth. I've always leaned on the university to cover alot (med, optical, physio, medical, and dental). Last year I maxed out the limit. But since I've graduated, I have nothing supporting me.

How do I reach out to others? I can't even reach out to doctors! My family won't listen to anything to do with emotional or physical problems. I'm afraid that another T, okay, I know another T would push me away. I feel like I need more help, not less. It's terrible for me to say, I know. I don't often think of working on the issues that I came to therapy with -- I don't think future oriented anymore. If it's coming, it's going to be a painful and bleak one.

I know I'm pathetic. I know my situation is wrong. But I can't do this alone. I just can't. I'm sorry. I know it's so annoying when people can't accept good advice. I'm sorry. I love reading your messages, I try and get into the mind-set where I'd consider how I could follow through, sometimes I think of what it would be like, often I end up reminising about my last T, or my Doc. But then I throw out a knee putting on a shoe, or I strain my back trying to get out of the shower, or I'm staring at the clock at 2:50am unable to sleep but exhausted, and all I care about is having someone to hold onto.

If I was stronger. If I had a string of good weeks. Maybe I could try looking again. But the last time, talking to that woman at the center, emptied me. I'm so tired. And too sad. Desperate.

Midnight, I wish I could give you more to work with. I do. It means ALOT that you would take the time to respond. You guys are really the only people I hear from. The only good thing I've started to do is email one of my old friends that lives far away. Sometimes she sends one back -- and that makes me smile for a minute or two. That's the best I've been able to do right now.

thanks, EL

 

bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp]

Posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 21:02:22

In reply to Today, posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 8:15:08

[Good to hear from you LL. Thanks for thinking of me. You help.]

For the past couple of weeks he had been referring to me as [and I'm going to spell it very wrong on purpose, so it won't come up on search engines], his "Ladee of Sha-lought". I finally asked why he was saying that, and he said it was from a poem. I hadn't read it before so I asked him to give me a copy so I could learn it. He brought a printout of it and I took it home. When I read it, it was printed on the back of old paper. Like photocopies of documents. The poem was like four pages long, on the back of the cover letter of his divorce case, and some property documents. It had him and his ex's full names, birth dates, and multiple copies of their signatures. I know where she lives now, and her maiden name. I know how much his home is worth, the address of it (I already saw it though), where he banks, who his lawyer is, his phone number (which I already knew), her phone number. I don't understand what it means for him to give me these things. Do you think it was an accident? How am I supposed to react to this? I kinda feel a bit like a pervert, or voyeur, or something.

And then to top it off, I read the poem, and the woman sets in motion her own death, for wanting to be with another. Is that what he wants me to do? Have I interpreted the poem wrong. Why would he call me that? He used to call me his Eliza, and I could kind of get it, but this one isn't making sense. Is he trying to tell me that I'm going to end up killing myself?

We've also been talking about his ex, and he was telling me about how they met, and what it was about her that made him leave her. He has described me using similar words, in a letter he sent me 1.5 months ago. He probably forgot, but I haven't. I still have the letter. I think he wants to warn me about the parts of my behaviour that could push him to leave me too. I just don't know how to change. All I think about now is how to feel the least amount of pain as possible. I don't care so much that I'm indecisive, cold, ambivalent... I don't think I can fix myself. I'm going to upset him. TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE!!! I'm afraid my personality will come out when I see him to say goodbye and he will never come back to me too.

Today's session was really weird. When I came in, we talked for maybe five minutes about his vacation, and then he said that he thought we should do something different to relax. He asked me to read poetry to him. I felt pretty silly. I've never even volunteered to read during my lectures at school before. Some were victorian era stuff (which was fine) but then it was 20th cen. love poems. I asked him if I could turn away if I had to read them outloud (cause I was already nervous and embarrassed) and I knew I'd stutter if I saw him watching me. Sometimes when I'm anxious my vision blurs (or the letters don't make sense to me). He said okay. But then he came right up behind me on the couch, and read along over my shoulder. I felt so stupid. Nobody reads poetry to others.

Then after like 12 or so, he said that he had brought in some music. So we lay back on the couch (me propped up by a bunch of pillows) and listened to opera arias and chorales. We weren't touching though. But at the end he moved over beside me and put his arm around me (over my shoulder) and said, I'm so glad to be able to share this with you.

It was bizarre. Not romantic -- which was really good. Not comforting though. More like surreal. I think he wanted to calm me (which was kind), but I just felt confused about what I was supposed to do. But he seemed pleased. And he still wants to see me tomorrow, so I guess he enjoyed how the day went. I hope I don't screw things up tomorrow, cause I feel like he might definately come back now.

Sorry, I've jumped around here, and have asked alot of questions. I'm just confused (on top of everything else). I have a history of angering people and I want to learn how to not do that. I'm so nervous and sad for tomorrow. What should I say to him? He said he is going to have another surprise. I just hope I don't have to read anything else.

thanks for listening, EL

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp] Ľ ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on July 24, 2006, at 21:27:12

In reply to bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp], posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 21:02:22

Whoa,
This stuff T is doing is totally crossing the line. I think he is using you to fulfill some fantasy of his, and no wonder you're confused. You're not a fantasy, you're his client for god's sake! He's trying to change you all right. But not for the better. He's trying to change you into someone who will give him some kind of romantic satisfaction. This is very alarming ElaineM. I hope you can recognize that it is unprofessional.

I worry that that surreal feeling you describe is actually some kind of dissociation. Like how we kind of go into a little dream/trance when we are confused and traumatized.

Anyways, think long and hard about why you're in therapy. rewind your life to the time when you were referred to this guy. What was he supposed to be doing to help you improve your life and realize your dreams? What does it mean to you to feel better? What are your long term goals in life? To have a job, start a family, join the peace corps, travel abroad, retire early, reconnect with your parents, Move to the big city, start a horse farm [not necessarily in that order, *grin*]?

Anyways, his behavior is very alarming. I'm worried that he is making you feel weaker and less self-reliant all the time. This makes it easier for him to manipulate you. I don't want you to become his puppet. I think you are a wonderful person, and you deserve to fall in love with someone who can love you for who you are, and make you stronger with their love, not weaker and more uncertain.

I hope I haven't offended you; I'm concerned about you and I only want the best for you. I don't know anything about the T-client relationship. If you were dating this guy, and he *weren't* your T, I'd still say it was a distructive relationship.

take care,
ll
(p.s. your writing is great. Don't you dare deflect that compliment!!)

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp] Ľ ElaineM

Posted by annierose on July 24, 2006, at 22:13:19

In reply to bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp], posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 21:02:22

Elaine -

This isn't therapy. This is destructive. You shouldn't be worried about pleasing him, wondering if you said the right thing. This is so harmful to you. I wish you could see that.

You wrote:
>>>I'm afraid my personality will come out when I see him <<<

Therapy is supposed to be a safe place for you. Yes it is scary for most of us, but we should be comfortable with our therapist enough for them to see most parts of us.

I'm sorry you are so sad, lonely, confused and scared. As much as you think he loves you, he loves himself more. He needs help. I just wish you could see that.

 

Re:EL

Posted by LadyBug on July 25, 2006, at 1:23:24

In reply to He's leaving Ľ LadyBug, posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 16:35:58

My T offered to come and see me last Thurs morning, 3 days after my surgery. I told her no, I wasn't feeling up to it. I regret it now a little bit, but at the time I didn't think I had the strength to go to the door to let her in let alone get myself ready. She offered to come one day this week, but I'm not thinking I could manage to drive myself to her office. I had my house all nice and clean for her before my surgery, now with my family not takikng care of things the way I do, it's not how I like it. So I'm really having my doubts that I have things looking good enough for me to let her come and visit me. It would be a first. If I'm up to driving, she shouldn't have to come and see me. I am having a second surgery next week.
I'm sad after reading your post about your visit. I do think your T is messing with your mind. Who wouldn't want to be loved and taken care of. It's just such a scary thing for me to see how things are going. It's gone far beyond any kind of boundaries. You are still the patient, but what he's offering you isn't therapy for YOU. He's taking pleasure in it and I'm afraid he will hurt you in the end. I may be wrong. I know you are intellegent and I know you have to trust your gut. Do you pay for your sessions? I sure hope not. And if I were you, I'd stop seeing him as his patient right away. If he wants to see you *Outside* his office, then that's where it needs to go. Please don't do work with him anymore. Please take care of yourself. If you want to have a relationship with him and he does too, then go that way. No more patient/therapist, it's gone too far.
Hugs to you my brave friend. Do be careful.
LadyBug

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ ElaineM

Posted by Tamar on July 25, 2006, at 14:17:30

In reply to bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp], posted by ElaineM on July 24, 2006, at 21:02:22

Hi Elaine,

Iíve been away from the boards for a while, but Iíve been thinking about you. Iím so sorry youíre going through such a hard time physically. I think I can understand why you donít want to think about it or read about it. I know exactly what you mean about making it real. On the other hand, might you feel in a bit more control if you knew more about your illness? I only ask because I became diabetic about four years ago and Iíve found that understanding it helps me to manage it better. And I can ask doctors for specific things that Iíve read about. But of course not all conditions are the same.

Iím still very worried about your therapistís behaviour. Therapists are supposed to limit the amount of personal information they give out about themselves, because clients might think they have to behave in a certain way to make sure the therapist still likes them. Thatís what seems to have happened with the thing he told you about why he left his wife, and your memory that heíd said something similar to you. No wonder you worry that he might abandon you. His disclosures about himself are playing on some of your deepest fears. No therapist should *ever* tell a client why he left his wife. There are no circumstances in which itís appropriate.

Iím also worried about the love poetry. My question is always: How is that therapy? I know you said that perhaps he wanted to help you to relax, but as a therapist he should be helping you to explore possible methods of relaxation. He should be saying, ďHave you tried reading poetry?Ē or ďHow do you feel when you sit quietly and listen to music?Ē But what he did was intrusive. Asking you to read love poetry doesnít sound like therapy; it sounds like seduction. But the purpose of your meetings with him is supposed to be therapy. If you need therapy and youíre not getting it from your therapist, then what will you do for therapy?

Sorry to be so negative about him. But I hate seeing you so hurt and fearful. And the thing that makes me terribly sad is: itís completely unnecessary. If he were a responsible therapist you would have appropriate support from him and you would be working through your difficulties. Instead, it sounds as if life is even harder than it needs to be Ė and when itís so hard in the first place, I feel you could do without the extra strain.

I know itíll be hard for you while heís on holiday. If you feel up to it, come and post here lots and lots. Itís always good to see your posts, and I hope you know we care about you.

Tamar

 

Re: bizarre meeting Ľ llrrrpp

Posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 18:56:31

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) [and llrrrpp] Ľ ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on July 24, 2006, at 21:27:12

Hi LL: I don't think that I was dissociating -- I do that sometimes. I call it "going into the wall" or "up into the light fixture". This time it felt more like sounds were getting fuzzy (if that makes sense), and slow. I just kept saying in my head over and over, "what do i do. what do i do...."
I've warned him before that I don't know how to act properly in social situations. I don't know how to interact and converse. My brain stops around others.

When I was referred to him, my time with my lady T was up, and she said she thought I really needed to learn how to be around men again. Especially after being in ED programs that were 99% female. I'd spend 6months at a time with only females. (Though to be honest, I have a history that lead me to fear men before the AN started) I full out told him at our first meeting that all I wanted was him to watch me for signs I'd hurt myself and hospitalize me if I was dangerous, and re-fill benzos if I decided to give them another try. We never spoke of life and dreams or goals -- he said it was fine to not have any of those things.

I've never really had longterm goals. Well, maybe one: I always wanted to be a mother. That's it. (Maybe a wife, though I could never imagine who would choose me) That hope died years ago. [Even when I was little, like 8, I never expected to live this long. I always wrote wills and left them beside my bed at night.] So when I look at my life now, I try to not complain more than I can help, because it feels as though I'm already living on borrowed time.

Nobody wants a crazy, unattractive invalid. They didn't think I'd be able to have children, even before the AN -- now they think it's even more unlikely. I've had to grow used to throwing away the idea of a future. It is too painful to think of -- it is better to kill the part of you that wishes. I'm sorry, I don't mean to squash your questions. That's just how I've come to think now.

I think it is true that I'm extrodinarily inept and weak. [I'll write about the mess that happened today, later. I start crying when i think of it] I don't know what I am going to do without him. I hope he doesn't die while away. I hope the part inside of him that thinks I'm good doesn't die. I hope he still wants to speak to me when he comes back. Though after today, I think I know how much he needs me.

Lurp, I'm not offend. Nothing you guys say ever offends me -- I know what's motivating your words. And even if it did, I wouldn't want anyone to apoligize for what they think. I'm used to hearing way worse, and you all have gentle typing voices :-)

EL

 

Annierose, LadyBug

Posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 19:29:00

In reply to Re:EL, posted by LadyBug on July 25, 2006, at 1:23:24

Annierose: I hear your concern, and it makes me think I'm less alone. But it is hard for me to think that he is destructive when my body is breaking me way more than he could. It is so hard -- pain dwarfs everything else.

I'm sure he loves me on some small level -- more than romantic. And I don't think he loves himself at all. Oh if you were only there to witness our meeting today. You'd feel so sorry for him. I think he may even hate himself. It breaks my heart to witness pain like that. I'd rather bare it on my body for him -- suffering through pain is my life, but I don't think he is used to it at all. Sorry, I realize it's hard to understand without being there. I hope you don't hate me for seeming so stubborn. I'm frozen, stone-like with all my problems right now. I don't want to turn you all away though.

LadyBug: Another surgery! My god, you must be so tired. Will that be the last one? - hopefully. I hope you will let your T come and see you. If she was so caring to offer, I'm sure she wouldn't even be judging your actual house. It sounds like it could be such a bonding thing for the two of you. She'd have a new little piece to help her know you more fully. Though maybe that would be too stressful for you right now. Don't do anything if you think it would make you too uncomfortable, but also don't be ashamed or embarrassed to let her show her support.

In my heart, I'm afraid that I will end up hurting him, rather than the other way around. And it's funny that you asked about paying for sessions. Two weeks ago he stopped charging entirely for my three times a week sessions.(never for occasional weekend ones) He said that it was a gesture of his friendship. And he already knows I can't afford my teeth. Or upgrading my degree at school -- that's why he offered to pay me to work, or lend me the money. The whole money aspect is a relatively new thing.

He does want to see me "outside". He already has a couple of times. He keeps pushing for more, because he says that it would be easier to act more natural "out in the real world". But I'm afraid to have others watch me walk. I was nervous in public before my health deteriorated. I just feel safer, in a way, being inside the office.

I wish a were braver. I always want to be stronger so the doctors will respect me more. But thank you for the complement. You are very brave yourself :-)

I will be thinking of you next week for sure.
EL

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ Tamar

Posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 20:05:04

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ ElaineM, posted by Tamar on July 25, 2006, at 14:17:30

Tamar, I'm glad to hear from you. I hope you're feeling a little better now. I think what my whole situation comes down to, is that he feels bad I have no love (or even like) in my life now. All there is is pain (which he, and all the other doctors, can't lessen). He said that I deserve someone to go through this with. And since there was no one else, he made it him. It's more like "friendship therapy" now. We don't talk about the past or patterns, or anything except how it get from one day to the next. How to get through a long night. How to not hurt myself when the pain medication is not bringing relief. My life has changed soooo much since I was with ladyT. I guess the way of doing therapy had to change too.

I do think the poem stuff is weird. I never considered the difference between suggesting I read, and reading to him. I suppose he figures that I'm so lonely and isolated at home, that I would like to share things with another person. I do sometimes get "romantic" vibes from him -- not often, and not very strong at all. I could even be making them up. Just an odd feeling. I don't want to ever have to sleep with him, and I'm not even sure if I could kiss him, but I feel like I need a bit of love, and I'll take it however it comes, from whomever it comes. I can't be choosy. I worry that another T will not love me -- though I know that that's not what T's are supposed to do. I just need to know that someone else's heart breaks when I'm in agony, or that they'd crumble in tears if I died. I'm afraid another T wouldn't be human enough. I don't want to suffer alone. Selfish -- I admit. But I can't help what I feel, and fear.

This holiday will be hard. I MISS MY DOCTOR SO BADLY! If only I could've stayed with her until after his vacation. Thanks for talking to me. Your posts have been comforts from the beginning.

EL

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s)

Posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 25, 2006, at 21:53:32

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ Tamar, posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 20:05:04

This is going to be blunt: your T is abusive. He is emotionally manipulative and sexually harassing you. If you doubt my assessment, ask any other mental health professional. It is very hard to recognize abuse when you are in the midst of it. Please get out of this relationship ASAP.

You need a T who will nurture you and help you--not gratify himself. You deserve it (even if you don't think so.).

Best,
EE

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ ElaineM

Posted by Tamar on July 26, 2006, at 3:18:34

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ Tamar, posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 20:05:04

Hi Elaine,

> He said that I deserve someone to go through this with.

I agree with him about that. You do deserve someone. You deserve lots of people. I just worry whether he can be what you need him to be.

> And since there was no one else, he made it him. It's more like "friendship therapy" now. We don't talk about the past or patterns, or anything except how it get from one day to the next. How to get through a long night. How to not hurt myself when the pain medication is not bringing relief. My life has changed soooo much since I was with ladyT. I guess the way of doing therapy had to change too.

I think thereís a lot to be said for addressing a crisis when youíre in one Ė and it does sound as if youíre in a crisis right now. And Iím not a therapist so I donít know exactly how therapists help patients through a crisis in the long term. But Iím pretty sure that some aspects of a present crisis can be found in the past. And maybe doing a bit of the kind of therapy you were doing with your female therapist might help you bring the crisis to an end. I would hope that he asks you how you dealt with various kinds of pain in the past: physical pain, emotional pain and so on. For example, it sounds to me as if your emotional pain manifests itself in your body. If thatís the case, your physical pain could be made much worse by the accompanying emotional pain. If your therapist were helping you to manage your emotional pain you might be able to manage your physical pain better. Also, it sounds to me as if you might have punished your body and made it somehow external to yourself. If your therapist were able to help you to think about your relationship with your body and how to love and care for it, perhaps you would be better able to handle the pain. But I donít see how your therapist can provide you with a safe space for talking about your body when heís overstepping the boundaries in such an overt way. And I think you need a therapist you can feel very, very safe with. You deserve that.

> I feel like I need a bit of love, and I'll take it however it comes, from whomever it comes. I can't be choosy.

This sounds very much like the words of someone with a history of abuse. People who have been abused often think theyíre unworthy of love from someone who will respect their boundaries. People who have been abused are often willing to put up with love that is mixed with danger, because they have learned that danger and pain are part of love; they donít expect anything better. And thatís true for all kinds of abuse: physical, emotional and sexual. Therapy should be helping you to find ways of valuing yourself and coming to believe that you deserve the love without the fear. The thing is, love that comes with fear isnít really love. Itís just more abuse. Real love doesnít ask you to do things that make you feel bad; real love is a gift rather than a contract. Someone who really loves you would respect your boundaries. You deserve real love.

> I just need to know that someone else's heart breaks when I'm in agony, or that they'd crumble in tears if I died.

I canít speak for others, but I would certainly crumble in tears if you died. Please donít die.

> I'm afraid another T wouldn't be human enough. I don't want to suffer alone. Selfish -- I admit. But I can't help what I feel, and fear.

I donít think itís selfish at all. Itís completely normal and acceptable. And I can see that he gives you something that you donít feel able to find elsewhere. But Ė and itís a big but Ė you are such a sweet and kind person, I find it impossible to imagine that youíd find it difficult to make friends or find a partner. Who wouldnít want to get to know you? I know we at Babble feel incredibly privileged to be getting to know you. Iím so glad you joined us. Youíre a real asset to the community.

> This holiday will be hard. I MISS MY DOCTOR SO BADLY! If only I could've stayed with her until after his vacation. Thanks for talking to me. Your posts have been comforts from the beginning.

I know. Itís very hard to miss people. But each day you get through is a day closer to seeing him again. Is there any way you can use this time to think about things you would like to do that are within the bounds of possibility for you? Something that would help you get through the day? Maybe getting involved in a charity or a campaigning group or something like that, where you can meet people who devote some time to caring about other people? I donít know what kinds of things youíre interested in, but youíre clearly a caring and intelligent person and you have a lot to offer. I donít know whatís possible for you when youíre in so much pain.

I hope things get easier for you soon.

Tamar


 

Re: bizarre meeting(s)

Posted by caraher on July 26, 2006, at 8:18:34

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ ElaineM, posted by Tamar on July 26, 2006, at 3:18:34


> > I just need to know that someone else's heart breaks when I'm in agony, or that they'd crumble in tears if I died.
>
> I canít speak for others, but I would certainly crumble in tears if you died. Please donít die.

Elaine, the thought of you dying is so sad to contemplate. I don't want to think about it. And reading about your suffering has brought tears to my eyes more than once.

> > I'm afraid another T wouldn't be human enough. I don't want to suffer alone. Selfish -- I admit. But I can't help what I feel, and fear.
>
> I donít think itís selfish at all. Itís completely normal and acceptable.

For some perspective on how normal this is, I've read a few books on psychological aspects of war recently and one of a soldier's greatest fears is not so much of dying as dying *alone*. I'm certain the same goes for suffering.

Elaine, you're not some hideous freak but a sensitive, honest and kind-hearted woman. You deserve far better than the hand you've been dealt. Know that you are lovable. Know that many people here value you and care about you very much. (((Elaine)))

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s)

Posted by mswgradstudent on July 26, 2006, at 15:06:12

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ Tamar, posted by ElaineM on July 25, 2006, at 20:05:04

Hi EL. First of all, the stuff you wrote about with your illnesses and giving up hope... it all resonates deeeeeeply within my own heart. I gave up marriage and a family before I was old enough to marry. I know my issues are too much for a man to handle.

That all being said, all I know about your therapy sessions is what you have shared and what I'm saying is based upon just that... Please promise us that if this therapist become inappropriate, that you will report it or at least transfer to a different place for services.

Therapists are people and they are human and there are times I've been inappropriately flirty with some of my clients. I didn't realize it until afterward b/c I don't think of them as clients... they are people. People have emotions and emotions get intertwined and mixed up.

STILL, it's the responsibility of your therapist, who is trained to look out for these thigns, to protect you from his own mixed up feelings!!!

It could be a misinterpretation of sorts and all accidental... or it could be that he is reacting to his divorce and out of line professionally concerning your treatment.

I know you care for him and I'm sure he's a wonderful therapist but please know that absolutely NO responsible therapist would jeopardize their client by trying to have a relationship outside of client/therapist. Even friendships aren't encouraged b/c you lose the ability to see things clearly ... or at least minimally clearly.. .when you are too invested in someone else's life...

Again, I'm so sorry about the pain. I feel it too. I'm hiding right now b/c I owe about 700 dollars that I can't pay to my roommate and my landlord. I haven't even eaten but I'm terrified to leave my room. I could work but every joint I have burns like fire... It's just too much for me and I'm overwhelmed and it sucks. I know what you mean about the nowhere to turn...

take care, be safe, and protect yourself girl!!!

stay strong

 

Re: bizarre meeting(s)

Posted by mswgradstudent on July 26, 2006, at 15:09:05

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s) Ľ ElaineM, posted by Tamar on July 26, 2006, at 3:18:34

T-- this is an awesome post. You are so supportive. The boards are lucky to have you as well.

 

I may have mislead you Ľ Emily Elizabeth

Posted by ElaineM on July 26, 2006, at 16:03:49

In reply to Re: bizarre meeting(s), posted by Emily Elizabeth on July 25, 2006, at 21:53:32

Emily: Thanks for your advice. I don't think I know you, so it's nice to meet someone new. I know this might sound stubborn but, I don't think he's abusive. I think he's wounded. He needs someone as much as I do. If I feel trapped into performing, then it's my own fault for being too pliable and spineless.

I tried once to speak to another ladyT but it didn't turn out well. It is too hard. I am too desperate.

I hope I haven't mislead you, but he's never sexually harassed me. I haven't yet slept with him, or even kissed him. We just touch now. And not unclothed or anything like that.

It's nice that you think I deserve better, but this is all I'm being offered now, and probably ever will be, so I just don't think I'm strong enough to give it up, hoping of something closer to ideal.

Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if that other woman kept me. But I also worry that I would've been sitting in agony with a stone-T, having my tears bounce off her uneffected. At least my T validates my medical condition. And sometimes it helps a little to know that my suffering has not gone unnoticed. That I endured so long. Took as little drugs as possible. I'm worried I'd be stuck with a T who was no more involved and animated than a big fat psychology textbook.

I don't know. I'm sorry.
EL

 

Re: He's leaving ****triggers**** Ľ ElaineM

Posted by Dinah on July 26, 2006, at 16:10:39

In reply to He's leaving ****triggers****, posted by ElaineM on July 23, 2006, at 16:29:16

I haven't written much, although I really do wish I could help somehow.

I guess that although you've written many things about your therapist that have distressed people, and distress me as well in terms of therapeutic behavior, it also sounds as if he meets some of your needs in a way that a therapist who stuck to the rules might not.

I'm not condoning his behavior, but I guess I'm getting the sense that this is a very complicated relationship and he's acting as more than a therapist. Or perhaps just that I don't have a sense of the full nature of your relationship.

He's no longer charging you?

I can certainly see the benefit to getting a "real" therapist to act as a therapist with you, even if you find this relationship helpful in other ways. When lines are blurred to a really large degree, I'm not sure therapy as therapy can take place.

I can feel my therapist starting to act like a therapist now in ways that highlight that he wasn't acting precisely therapist-like before. And I find him soooo helpful as a therapist. Therapy is a valuable and unique relationship.

But I must confess that I'm not sure what it would take for him to do before I'd totally cut off ties with him. I'm not known for my low self esteem, but I think I'd forgive him anything, and I mean anything, to keep a relationship of some sort.

But I hope I would also seek out a truly therapeutic relationship even as I held on to a nontherapeutic one with him.

If that makes sense?


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