Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 663469

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Projective identification stands up/ recognized

Posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2006, at 5:47:35

Aha! It's always a lightbulb/epiphany moment when I recognize projective identification flung my way in all it's primitive yet powerful "glory".

There's this person I'll call Doe with whom I'm in semi-regular contact with. I often get really annoyed or angry when interacting with Doe, and my husband will ask, "Why do you let Doe get to you like that?"

It's a good question. There are times when I can see things logically and more objectively about the interactions, and at these times, I do not have any strong emotional reaction. But at other times, I find myself resorting to almost ad hominem attacks when responding to Doe, because I am so angry or frustrated or something. This always leads me to wonder what the heck is going on. Why am I feeling so riled up, beat up, and crappy about what one person says?

Hmmmm. Then today the concept of projective identification occurred to me. How does this apply in Doe's case? Well, with projective identification the person (in this case, Doe)has some feeling or sense of self inside which is so intolerable to them, that they must "project" or transfer it metaphorically "into" the identified object (me). This gets the "bad me" out of them. In addition, it injects it into the other, who then starts acting in a way that confirms the "bad me" concept. (I had to have a picture to "get" this at first, and I still get a bit tangled up trying to 'splain.)

So if the feeling or sense of self that feels so intolerable is oh, say feelings of being done wrong, being abused, or being attacked, and the person needs to get those feelings ("bad me") out of them, then they get flung at (or introjected) into the one being identified with (me, unfortunately).

So then when I find myself "attacking" Doe instead of responding with neutral courtesy, I wonder what's "come over me". In projective identification, for the ones who "get the prize" or maybe the hot potato, :) there is often a sense of "Where does this feeling come from? It's not normal for me. Why is it so much more intense than it ought to be? What's going on here, anyway?"

So once I noticed this thinking, mainly by feeling bad about attacking again, the light bulb went off. Aha! I just got spanked by the projective identification monkey! It's not MY feeling of wanting to attack Doe, thus leading Doe to feel abused. It's Doe's feeling! And I've been feeling like I've been treated lousy, which matches to some extent, Doe's feeling. So my actions have just reinforced Doe's sense of self (related to feeling abused, attacked, etc.) since I'm the lucky hot potato holder.

It's very clever, this projective identification. Not only is it projection, where you fling your mud at me to see if it sticks, and then call it my mud. (metaphorical "you" and "I"). But the identification part adds an interesting twist. Because when you fling mud at someone you identify with in some way, it's like flinging it at yourself. The identified other, now with the mud and perhaps feeling a bit shocked to discover themselves covered with mud (or with mud inside, more accurately) must now decide what to do with it. A common reaction is to scrape it off and fling it back. This just reinforces the person's poor sense of self and beliefs about themselves. (Bad me). But if the identified with one can hang onto the mud, and effectively contain it somehow, this can eventually show the other that, "Hey. Mud's not so bad. See, it's all in this place now. It's managed. It's okay. I didn't smother." And then eventually, the person can take their mud back and contain it as well. That's the ideal and therapeutic way it should go.

But apparenlty I'm in the flinging back stage. And I'm not sure I have any need to hold it. I suppose I could compost it. :) Make mud pies?

Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramblings. It's helped me to figure this out a bit more, which is good.

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2006, at 9:19:27

In reply to Projective identification stands up/ recognized, posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2006, at 5:47:35

I've got to admit this is one of those psychological concepts that I can't get my brain around. It's like trigonometry to me. I always was good at math, thought in algebraic terms naturally, was great at proofs and theorems, relatively good at geometry, but trignometry stopped me flat. It asked me to think outside of the logical two dimensional world that my brain is best in.

And some psychological concepts like ego and projective identification are like that to me.

If I understand correctly, with projective identification you are brought to feel what another person is feeling, even if they aren't openly expressing it. So that if you're talking to someone angry - whether or not they're showing it, you begin feeling angry even if the situation doesn't necessarily call for anger.

Is this supposed to be a matter of simple contagion? This will sound schizotypal of me (and is one of the reasons my therapist clings to the schizotypal personality disorder label for me) but I've always thought that emotions give off energy that can be detected to some degree or another. My husband laughingly calls me semipsychic because he can walk in the door and practically before the door shuts I can tell his mood and comment on it. My son does the same. When I pick him up from school, before he buckles his seatbelt he might ask if something's wrong or comment that I seem happy.

Or is it thought that people do subtle and likely unconscious things to arouse these feelings? Like phrase their sentences in such a way as to engender anger? Or hit previously known buttons?

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognized » gardenergirl

Posted by annierose on July 2, 2006, at 9:34:11

In reply to Projective identification stands up/ recognized, posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2006, at 5:47:35

I think I get it, kindof.

I think I feel it with my daughter, and that is not good at all. She has put on a few extra pounds this past year and it bugs the heck out of me. Here she is at this tender age of 12, and I cringe when we go clothes shopping for her. I'm not mean. I'm encouraging, but I feel uncomfortable inside. Is the projection, that I feel uncomfortable with my own body and I identify with that through my daughter's current weight gain?

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah

Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 12:16:39

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2006, at 9:19:27

>
>
> Is this supposed to be a matter of simple contagion? This will sound schizotypal of me (and is one of the reasons my therapist clings to the schizotypal personality disorder label for me) but I've always thought that emotions give off energy that can be detected to some degree or another. My husband laughingly calls me semipsychic because he can walk in the door and practically before the door shuts I can tell his mood and comment on it. My son does the same. When I pick him up from school, before he buckles his seatbelt he might ask if something's wrong or comment that I seem happy.
>
>

Now, I'm just plain Froot Loops, but I think what you're describing here is just mammalian non-verbal communication. I know that I can do it with many people around me, and while I can't put my brain on just what it is, I can tell you it's based on very subtle body language.

I think projective identification is different, partly because it really is someone else, in GG's eloquent words, "flinging mud" at you. Like, my own experience of PI, someone who accuses you of what they're doing, and then you react as if maybe you are doing it. Does that make sense? (Oy, I can email you what happened in that case, but I won't post it here.) Think about identifying with someone: you hear someone say, maybe, "I just can't seem to wrap my brain around trigonometry," and you feel a little twinge of identification, right? (And don't tell me that, since I'll be taking that maybe next semester.) Well, in Projective Identification, rather than you voluntarily identifying with someone, they force that identification onto you. Think about someone who accuses you of prejudice or racism, as a way of reducing their own guilt over their own racist or prejudiced views? You may, indeed, have a reaction to that -- and are likely to try to throw that mud back, which kinda continues the problem.

Ah, if that doesn't help, there ain't no help in my dull brain. I hope it helps, though. And anyway, GG is the one to explain it. She's got a much sharper brain...

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by daisym on July 2, 2006, at 15:38:14

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 12:16:39

I'm wondering if this is a purely negative concept. I've been around people who make me feel better about myself or make me think I'm more capable than I am...and I like that. But I am inclined then to do the same for them.

I "identify" with this concept because I do it myself around anger. My therapist has long said that I hand over my anger to my husband (or him) and then I'm upset at the anger being flung back at me. Holding onto it myself is too hard.

I'm telling ya - we'd all be better without a psyche...

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by frida on July 2, 2006, at 18:14:39

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by daisym on July 2, 2006, at 15:38:14

Hi,
I think my T has mentioned something like this to me.
she's said that somehow I reproduce my abuse situation in T and even if I am the one "hurting" someone with my actions (her, in this way, because I act in a way to bring the worst out of her, sometimes) I turn it around so that I look like the victim and she like the one "abusing" me,and then I feel the pain of the victim I was, but in reality I am making her feel like the victim I was ,with my actions...It is confusing and hard to explain but she has told me that what I do , has helped her understand how I felt while my father abused me...that I have made her "feel" it, on another level.

I am not being clear , but this is what came to my mind...

love,
Frida

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by cecilia on July 2, 2006, at 20:47:51

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by frida on July 2, 2006, at 18:14:39

I've always thought projective identification was just a therapist's way of blaming the victim. You're not being abused, oh no, you're just acting in a way that "makes" the T abuse you. Just like millions of abused wives the world over blame themselves. Cecilia

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 21:43:03

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 12:16:39

The person doesn't have to accuse you of doing it-- they just have to treat you as if you're doing it-- and then, somehow, this evokes the very thing they thought you were doing.

Which, probably, is something bad-- which, it seems, they think or fear that they themselves do, except they think it by thinking that you're doing it.

Say, if someone is afraid they're not smart enough--they might treat you as if you're not very smart-- and then you'll do something like get tongue-tied, or flustered, or even angry, in a way that makes you feel kinda unsmart.

I can tell often how people are feeling pretty much right away-- but I think it's small flickerings of expression or the way they carry themselves or move that they and I are (or am) not aware of-- but energy would be more a metaphor for what it is, than the thing itself..

Jost

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 21:44:49

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by cecilia on July 2, 2006, at 20:47:51

> I've always thought projective identification was just a therapist's way of blaming the victim. You're not being abused, oh no, you're just acting in a way that "makes" the T abuse you. Just like millions of abused wives the world over blame themselves. Cecilia

PI presumably is in the eye of the beholder.

Jost

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » cecilia

Posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 22:17:50

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by cecilia on July 2, 2006, at 20:47:51

> I've always thought projective identification was just a therapist's way of blaming the victim. You're not being abused, oh no, you're just acting in a way that "makes" the T abuse you. Just like millions of abused wives the world over blame themselves. Cecilia

I respectfully disagree with that view. I have experienced it myself, and I am not a therapist, and I do not believe that I have abused anyone. (Except maybe my cat, who believes it is abusive of me not to provide a lap for his sitting pleasure every time he wants it.)

What you're describing, though, sounds an awful lot more like another sort of defense mechanism on the part of the therapist. Maybe plain vanilla projection? Or something else that I don't know the name of. (I wouldn't be surprised, since I know very little about all this.) I think that situation is pretty much the same as the domestic abuser saying, "You made me do that!" NOT acceptable behavior, and not PI.

Yes, I agree that there are situations in which even therapists blame the victim. But that doesn't mean that PI isn't a real phenomenon, nor that it's a way of blaming the victim. It's kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater -- dismissing PI, which is a useful concept, because it *might be* misused in a hurtful manner.

Again, just another view, and I hope you found it respectful of your view. I would very much dislike finding myself in the midst of a firestorm, or that I've hurt someone's feelings inadvertantly.

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:26:22

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2006, at 9:19:27

> I've got to admit this is one of those psychological concepts that I can't get my brain around. It's like trigonometry to me.

It sort of is like trig. It's definitely not two-dimensional, and I'm not sure it's even tangible except in the manifestation of it.

I have a hard time understanding the concept of triangulation without seeing or at least picturing a diagram. PI is sort of the same for me. It helps me to have a diagram.

http://www.toddlertime.com/dx/borderline/projection-chart.htm
a diagram of the process between a client and therapist

What's not pictured is what can happen when the "treater" does not contain and modify the "bad self object". That's when the treater begins participating in the PI and begins to act out the client's "fantasies". By this I mean they begin to act in ways which confirms the existence of a wholly negative (or wholly positive) "self". The client feels relief from psychic anxiety as they are now able to "control" or at the least, predict the treater's responses.

> If I understand correctly, with projective identification you are brought to feel what another person is feeling, even if they aren't openly expressing it. So that if you're talking to someone angry - whether or not they're showing it, you begin feeling angry even if the situation doesn't necessarily call for anger.

Sort of, but PI involves the other person actively somehow "penetrating" you with the part of themselves they find intolerable. It could be anger. It could be feelings of shame, guilt, inherent "badness", paranoia, selfishness, etc. It can also be positive things, if someone finds those intolerable.
>
> Is this supposed to be a matter of simple contagion?

I think what you described could be ascribed to empathy, intuition, sensitivity, etc. It's not pathological or a defense mechanism. I think it's a skill.

> Or is it thought that people do subtle and likely unconscious things to arouse these feelings? Like phrase their sentences in such a way as to engender anger? Or hit previously known buttons?

That's a good question. I get hung up on *how* this happens if I try to think of it beyond an abstract concept and instead try to identify interpersonal "markers" or specific behaviors.

Hope this helps. I find it a very interesting subject.

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognized » annierose

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:30:41

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognized » gardenergirl, posted by annierose on July 2, 2006, at 9:34:11

> Is the projection, that I feel uncomfortable with my own body and I identify with that through my daughter's current weight gain?

I think that's identification with your daughter regarding the weight. I think that seeing her go through it may bring up your own feelings about weight and body image, perhaps. And it sounds painful. :( It also sounds normal, not like the actions of a more primitive ego system. (How's that for jargon?) ;)

From what you describe, it doesn't sound like either you or your daughter are "projecting" an intolerable negative part of the self *into* the other.

gg

 

About Fruit Loops and PI » Racer

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:39:44

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah, posted by Racer on July 2, 2006, at 12:16:39

> Now, I'm just plain Froot Loops...

No way! You're Total. Totally! ;)

>Think about someone who accuses you of prejudice or racism, as a way of reducing their own guilt over their own racist or prejudiced views? You may, indeed, have a reaction to that -- and are likely to try to throw that mud back, which kinda continues the problem.

Racism is used a lot when discussing projective identification outside of therapy interactions. This may be because we all have prejudices of some kind, and we have been exposed to negative stereotypes. (Having prejudices is not in and of itself bad, because you can also "self-correct" your prejudices in the face of real situations and interactions.) But feeling this way may be too uncomfortable for us to tolerate in ourselves if one views this as wholly "bad". So we try to toss that hot potato into someone else, who then reacts either by containing and "cooling" the hot potato before tossing it back, or by feeling "burned" by it and acting out about it.

Sharp brain? or Sharp tongue? :)

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » daisym

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:46:37

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by daisym on July 2, 2006, at 15:38:14

> I'm wondering if this is a purely negative concept. I've been around people who make me feel better about myself or make me think I'm more capable than I am...and I like that. But I am inclined then to do the same for them.

It's not purely negative, it can be positive feelings about the self that the person finds intolerable and thus they project/inject them into you. I am not sure I've ever experienced that. But then, it's probably harder to identify if someone is doing this, because it probably feels good. I suppose a way to identify it would be if you started acting much more self-important and full of self-love to an extent that feels quite out of character for you. If rage is intense anger, what would be the corollary for feeling good about oneself? Maybe narcissism or grandiosity? I don't know.

But I also think that being around caring people who accept us as we are feels pretty good. My guess is that's what you do for them, and they probably do for you, since you're certainly beautiful and valuable just as you are. :)
>
> I "identify" with this concept because I do it myself around anger. My therapist has long said that I hand over my anger to my husband (or him) and then I'm upset at the anger being flung back at me. Holding onto it myself is too hard.

Especially if feeling angry is equated with "bad me" thoughts and feelings. Which is not uncommon for little girls, who are you know, made of "sugar and spice and everything nice" as opposed to "snips and snails and puppy dogs' tails." Talk about sexism! :)

>
> I'm telling ya - we'd all be better without a psyche...

Sometimes I agree. At least if we could have a volume switch...

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » frida

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:51:20

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by frida on July 2, 2006, at 18:14:39

It's hard to describe, isn't it? Very confusing. I can relate to your T saying that it helped her to better understand what it was like for you. It's beyond empathy and moves into actually experiencing the feelings, which can be quite intense. Of course, it's also an interpretation, which is open to debate and could be wrong, but...it's a useful phenomenon to talk about in therapy, I think.

And I should add that just because someone might use a defense mechanism from time to time doesn't mean anything about their overall mental health or functioning. It's the sum total of our behaviors and functioning that counts, not individual incidences.

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » cecilia

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:55:15

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by cecilia on July 2, 2006, at 20:47:51

> I've always thought projective identification was just a therapist's way of blaming the victim. You're not being abused, oh no, you're just acting in a way that "makes" the T abuse you. Just like millions of abused wives the world over blame themselves.

I suppose that a T might use this interpretation incorrectly or even as a "weapon" against the client if their own ego strength might need some shoring up. The term "transference" is also one which gets "tossed out" at inappropriate times, and perhaps too quickly in some cases.

I think they are both useful psychological constructs, but I also think that one must be open to considering multiple interpretations in order to use them effectively.

gg

 

great points » Jost

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:58:19

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize, posted by Jost on July 2, 2006, at 21:44:49

> PI presumably is in the eye of the beholder.

and

> but energy would be more a metaphor for what it is, than the thing itself..

Excellent points!

gg

 

More stuff about PI

Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 16:04:24

In reply to great points » Jost, posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:58:19

http://jppr.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/8/2/155
fairly good article with a few definitions and clinical case examples

http://fox.unideb.hu/~keresofi/psyth/a-to-z-entries/projective_identification.html
difference between projection and projective identification

-“The main difference between projection and projective identification is that the former belongs to intrapsychic dynamics, while the latter describes a very primitive form of relating. In terms of feelings experienced by the projector there is a clear difference between the two phenomena. When projective identification is at work, the projector feels at one with the other person. An "I am you" feeling. This is not the case in simple projection. Also, for the receiver, projective identification is far more disturbing and more difficult to deal with than a simple projection.”

This makes sense to me about how the “projector” feels after using one of these two mechanisms. (I’m going to start using “giver” to signify the one doing the projecting and “receiver” to signify the one being projected onto or into.) Projection seems more to be to be related to somehow denying one’s feelings to oneself, whereas projective identification seems to be more about actually eliminating (as if that were possible) the objectionable feeling. PI actively engages the other in what is projected, whereas simple projection is more hollow, transparent, and less internally “penetrating” to the one projected on.

Warning, I’m going to start using metaphors, and I’m probably going to mix them up. I sort of picture a projector image, that two dimensional, translucent image that one could see on a blank screen, as not really having any “mass”, and so it can be disregarded by the receiver. Whereas with projective identification, the idea is that the receiver is actually “penetrated” by the what’s projected. To me this means it has “mass” or weight, or it can have more of an effect than something more ephemeral, like a movie or slide projection.

Of course these phenomena are abstract and intangible in that there is no physical manifestation of the event itself. There are signs from feelings and behavior, so it can be observed and reflected upon. But it’s not “real” as in something you can see, touch, measure, etc. Jost's describing a sort of "energy" is good. My T also says that one unconscious "speaks to" another, which makes perfect sense to me if I don't try to make rational sense of it. :)

I also thought this part was interesting:
“Projection and projective identification can occur not only because one has to get rid of intolerably bad bits of oneself. The projector may be unable to own his positive qualities, his assets, because of guilt or fear of envy, retaliation, abandonment, loneliness or fear of harming someone important. By a process of projection or projective identification those good bits can be attributed to or deposited into someone else.” I have a hard time imagining what that might feel like for the “receiver”.

I imagine it might be harder to identify and process, because it’s a good feeling versus a negative one.

Also from the link, a simplified outline of the process:
“The process as it occurs in child development or in therapy can be dissected into three phases (Ogden, 1982):
1) The projector rids himself of unwanted bits;
2) Deposits them into (not just onto) the receiver;
3) Recovers a modified version of his projected bits.
Without this third phase, the process is not therapeutic or helpful to the projector.”

Finally, I saw something on a blog that talked about internet trolls and projective identification. If you think about how it feels when a “troll” or “flamer” comes here and does what they do, that could be viewed from a PI model. Some posters react with anger and incivility, and this behavior is not their usual style. Perhaps the “troll” has projected something into some of us via their post? Hmmmm. I’ll have to think more about that one.


Okay, end of rambling...

gg

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on July 6, 2006, at 18:31:41

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 15:26:22

Still Trig to me. :)

Which is not to say I haven't recognized it in action from time to time. I think it's a valid concept. Just a hard one to grasp.

An aside to Racer. I have no reason to believe my trigonometry problems are applicable to anyone but me. My husband and I were both good at other forms of math, but he grasped Trig easily while I dogged the professor for extra help to make it through each test, because I'd have lost the concepts as soon as I took hold of them.

 

Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize

Posted by cecilia on July 7, 2006, at 2:42:08

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognize » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 6, 2006, at 18:31:41

It's worse than trigonometry. Ok, plain old projection is when you're angry at your T so you think she's angry at you. (Though it seems to me that just because you project it doesn't mean it's necessarily not true, she could indeed be angry at you.) PI then is when you're angry at your T, you act in ways that make her angry at you and she says something hurtful in return because she introjects your anger? I guess I don't understand how this differs from plain old retaliation. Also my ex-T used to always call it projection when I said something like "I worry that you'll think I'm so stupid I don't know such and such is wrong with me." She would say this was projection, that I was the one who thought I was stupid. This never made the slightest sense to me. I knew perfectly well that such and such was wrong with me and I assumed she knew that such and such was wrong with me, what I was concerned about was whether SHE thought I was so stupid that I didn't know whatever it was. I see that this is neurotic and one of the many reasons I failed therapy, but I still don't get how it's projection. Cecilia

 

Little off the subject » annierose

Posted by antigua on July 7, 2006, at 8:37:57

In reply to Re: Projective identification stands up/ recognized » gardenergirl, posted by annierose on July 2, 2006, at 9:34:11

I'm sure you know that 12 year old girls are SUPPOSED to put on a little weight because their bodies need the extra fat when they're getting ready to shoot up, which she will. sorry to butt in, but when I was a kid no one ever told me it was a natural process and I developed EDs to cope. But I know what you mean. But now I see a gorgeous almost 14-yr old in front of me and that's a whole other story!
again, sorry for butting in on the thread,
antigua

 

Re: More stuff about PI article--gg

Posted by Jost on July 8, 2006, at 4:50:39

In reply to More stuff about PI, posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2006, at 16:04:24

This article reminds me that the idea of PI seems to have been introduced to explain ( or possibly justify) the existence of "countertransference" in the early years of PsychoA.

Freud had the idea that the Psychoanalyst is neutral, which often was taken to mean didn't have feelings about the P, or only had certain limited ones of wanting to be of help. But As found they had strong, & often not simply "helpful" or benevolent feelings. This led to concept of countertranference--but it was supposed (somewhat) be a mistake or loss of neutrality.

The resulting development over time of concepts like PI were attempts to understand the CTtransference, and why the A would fall into this error.

Also eventually to find way of using it to deepen or further the analysis, so that it became a positive thing, even if technical a mistake, then eventually, a necessary thing, and one that was almost crucial to making PSA progress.

Haven't read any of the PSA lit. for a while, although I read a lot while I was in grad school, and was interested in it for a while.

Do you read any of the journals, gg?

Jost

 

Re: Little off the subject » antigua

Posted by Annierose on July 8, 2006, at 20:19:52

In reply to Little off the subject » annierose, posted by antigua on July 7, 2006, at 8:37:57

Yeah I know, but it's painful for me to see her make so many unhealthy food choices on a daily basis --- and I do think she has put on more weight than needed for puberty. She is on a swim team during the summer and after working out for over an hour each morning, I'll offer her healthy snacks and she sneaks candy from her friends and other junk.

Okay, thanks for the support and advice. We'll get through this. I'm dropping her off to camp in the morning. I'm going to miss this firecracker!!

 

Re: Little off the subject » Annierose

Posted by cecilia on July 9, 2006, at 21:40:45

In reply to Re: Little off the subject » antigua, posted by Annierose on July 8, 2006, at 20:19:52

Well, don't forget, she's only 12-of course she's going to choose candy over healthy snacks. Truthfully now, haven't you ever done the same at a much older age? Cecilia

 

Re: Little off the subject » Annierose

Posted by Dinah on July 10, 2006, at 9:29:25

In reply to Re: Little off the subject » antigua, posted by Annierose on July 8, 2006, at 20:19:52

I'm sure you know this, and aren't making an issue of it, but weight is a perfect way to rebel against your mother, if you know it bothers her. (Not that it bothered my mother, but it bothered the mothers of enough friends that I recall it well.)


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