Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 662028

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cost of... LOL SO TRUE!!!!!!! (nm) happyflower

Posted by B2chica on June 28, 2006, at 10:37:26

In reply to Re: OCD and schizotypal B2chica, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 10:30:05

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's B2chica

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 10:55:41

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's happyflower, posted by B2chica on June 28, 2006, at 10:36:23

Well if it helps you feel better Bi-polar is a mood disorder, not a personality disorder. :-)

My T doesn't like to labels either but has to for insurance companys. And a lot of times it can be a self fullfilling profitcy (can't spell it). And it also effects how people perceive you and how you percieve yourself.

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower happyflower

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:00:57

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower Dinah, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 10:19:07

Nope. You can experience IBS and migraines without anxiety. Stress makes them more likely. But migraines can also be triggered by hormones, by flickering lights, by lack of sleep. My neurologist said that they are currently believed to be caused by a cascade of serotonin.

There's a stereotype of IBS being part of anxiety, but I think maybe it could just be a common root cause. I *think* IBS is caused by an excess of serotonin in the gut.

I'm not sure that you can make the temporary/permanent distinction so easily. For any number of people depression, manic depression, and anxiety can be a recurring and chronic condition.

And BPD is often "outgrown".

Also, people can change their coping mechanisms. It's just not easy.

My point is that "personality disorders" is an unnecessarily judgemental assessment.

As far as myself... If I read Linehan's description of the inner life of a person with borderline personality disorder I stand up and shout "THAT'S ME!!!!". However, thus far my pdocs in my adulthood have ruled out borderline personality disorder as a diagnosis despite my occasional cutting. I tend to use different coping mechanisms. Instead of having a life marked by instability, my life is marked by excessive attachment to stability. That's my coping mechanisms.

Which goes back to my same argument. I think in many ways I should be treated as a person with borderline personality disorder, especially medically. But in terms of coping mechanisms, I use a different set of coping mechanisms. So in my imaginary perfect DSM world my diagnosis would read something like

Axis I: Anxiety disorder, OCD and unspecified. Mood disorder, affective instability.

Axis II: Coping mechanisms involve excessive clinging to stability, overeating, dissociation, and occasionally cutting.

Treatment plan: Treat the underlying anxiety and affective instability with medications. Therapy would involve learning anxiety and affective instability control techniques such as guided visualization, progressive relaxation, biofeedback, and breathing exercise. In addition therapy would target finding better coping mechanisms than the ones currently used.

Doesn't that sound much better than a Personality Disorder with not much of a positive prognosis?

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower Dinah

Posted by B2chica on June 28, 2006, at 11:14:27

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:00:57

>>As far as myself... If I read Linehan's description of the inner life of a person with borderline personality disorder I stand up and shout "THAT'S ME!!!!". However, thus far my pdocs in my adulthood have ruled out borderline personality disorder as a diagnosis despite my occasional cutting. I tend to use different coping mechanisms. Instead of having a life marked by instability, my life is marked by excessive attachment to stability. That's my coping mechanisms.


first, how would i find Linehan's description of the 'inner life...' i'm very interested to read this.

also, i thought cutting automatically put you in BPD dx? that's what all the T's and nurses told me. if you cut your BPD period...this label was slammed on me like a stack of bricks...i think that's why i rejected it at first. but i'm suprised even with your other comments that they would be hesitant to put you in that category? it seems like you would fit?
but i'm not doc i guess.

thanks for the info.
b2c.

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower B2chica

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:17:13

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower Dinah, posted by B2chica on June 28, 2006, at 11:14:27

They on first consultation put it as a rule out diagnosis because of my cutting. But they then ruled it out. :)

Perhaps they were extra conscientous doctors. Or perhaps my overall presentation is just not consistent with BPD.

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:18:55

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:00:57

Hi Dinah,

I guess for me I don't see the label of personality disorder as a negative thing, it is just a title of condition. Like cancer, or hemroids. LOL

You are right about the migranes, I forgot it can be hormonal.

The thing about depression, is that it can be reaccuring due to many things, but it also can be healed and not ever come back. It can also go away on its own without any therapy or meds.
In the case of personality disorders, you will always have it, you can help with the symptoms, but it will always be there. People's symptoms from a personality disorder are not coping mechinisims. If it was it would be understood that they can control their actions. But instead of coping mechinisms, they are biological traits of their personality. Most do not precieve what they are doing, and they can't help it. The fact that you USE a set of copoing mechisims, and are talking about it here, shows me that you don't have a personality disorder. LOL I think we can go around and around with this one! LOL Your poor T ! (just kidding) This is actually fun, I love talking about stuff like this. Plus we don't hit below the belt around here, heck, I would say that we are more adjusted than most people. :-)

 

Hey can you tell that I have been studying? LOL

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:30:53

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:18:55

I think I can talk about this stuff in my sleep. And I mean literally ! LOL Now my problem makes me a freak. LOL

 

I give up happyflower

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:42:01

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:18:55

Clearly my ideas can't trump a textbook. And my efforts are just adding to the potential for hurt.

But I would remind you that there are people here, and lurking, who have been diagnosed with personality disorders, and I, speaking as one of them, would be highly distressed if I believed your textbook.

 

Re: I give up Dinah

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 12:31:35

In reply to I give up happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:42:01

I am sorry Dinah, I seem to have offended you and I didn't mean to , I thought we were just friendly debating this stuff, but I see that I have hurt you and it saddens me .

It doesn't matter if what I say is true or false, what matters most is that it is hurting people and it isn't what I want to do, I just wanted to find out the facts, so I won't talk about this anymore. I truely am sorry to everyone.

 

Good site for info re personality disorders

Posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2006, at 14:01:53

In reply to Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2006, at 22:05:27

http://www.assessmentpsychology.com/personalitydisorders.htm

It provides the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria as well as some of the "current thinking" since the DSM-IV came out. I think it's a pretty balanced site.

gg

 

Defense mechanisms and coping

Posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2006, at 14:18:11

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:18:55

> People's symptoms from a personality disorder are not coping mechinisims. If it was it would be understood that they can control their actions. But instead of coping mechinisms, they are biological traits of their personality.

I'm not sure where this idea comes from. My understanding is that the symptoms of a PD as they manifest in someone's behavior, thoughts, and feelings, are actually coping responses, but they may not be adaptive. You could also consider them to fall into the category of defense mechanisms, which are behaviors that serve to relieve or avoid a feeling of anxiety or other emotional discomfort. http://www.coldbacon.com/defenses.html
Having and using a variety of the more adaptive defense mechanisms is associated with good mental health, while using fewer and less adaptive oens more rigidly is associated with more distress.

gg

 

Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower

Posted by cloudydaze on June 28, 2006, at 15:03:17

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 11:18:55

> The thing about depression, is that it can be reaccuring due to many things, but it also can be healed and not ever come back. It can also go away on its own without any therapy or meds.
> In the case of personality disorders, you will always have it, you can help with the symptoms, but it will always be there.

- according to my psychaitrist, I have bipolar caused by a chemical inbalance that will never go away on it's own. According to him, I will never be "cured".

You want to know what I think? I think psychology is great - I majored in psych for awhile (it kinda helped me to figure myself out) - but i don't think it's perfect.

There's no reasonable explanation for how I've been able to cope without meds. I still get depressed, but only because I have feelings. I am human. I go through rough spots - i'm going through one now. But knowing I'm going to make it through the pain makes it all okay. I haven't been "cured" or "fixed", I've just learned to cope a little better.

I believe meds can help, but only you can heal yourself, IMO. "Healing" to me doesn't mean the illness is gone, it just means you are stronger than it.

There are some things that can't be explained. Science and Medicine have come a long way, but some things are still a mystery.

 

Re: OCD vs OCPD B2chica

Posted by littleone on June 28, 2006, at 15:41:30

In reply to Re: OCD and schizotypal, posted by B2chica on June 28, 2006, at 9:45:48

> so help me out with the OCD vs OCD pd? what would be the difference between the two? i guess i would think of someone not able to function outside the home with OCD, but like my dad with ocd PD, that he can function but is obsessively checking things 8/9 times. is that kinda it??

My understanding of these problems is that they both involve obsessions and compulsions (and OCPD has other stuff), but the reasons for the obsessions and compulsions is different.

People with OCD do the things they do because they believe that if they don't do them, then terrible things will happen, eg planes will crash, loved ones will die, etc.

People with OCPD do the things they do because they believe very strongly that they are the right things to do.

For example, my dad's unit is filled to the brim with empty boxes (I'm not just talking a couple of boxes, I'm talking about a freaky scary amount of boxes). Every time he buys a TV or kettle or microwave or anything, he keeps the box forever. And he keeps it made up like a box (ie he doesn't even flatten it out). And I'm pretty sure he's doing it because if he ever wants to move house he'll need that box in order to repack the appliance so it won't get damaged in the move. If you tried to reason with him that he could just hire boxes from a removalist or whatever, he would have reasons why that is not the right thing to do. That his way is the one and only right way and to do it any other way would just be *wrong* and being wrong is totally unacceptable. He wouldn't say that last bit out loud, but that is what he believes.

 

Re: I give up Dinah

Posted by littleone on June 28, 2006, at 15:54:21

In reply to I give up happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:42:01

> Clearly my ideas can't trump a textbook. And my efforts are just adding to the potential for hurt.

I would also like to add to this that one textbook does not have all the answers. It just puts forward one train of thought. There a lot of different opinions out there and I believe a person can only get a well balanced and educated view of something from reading many points of view and then coming to a conclusion of their own.

> But I would remind you that there are people here, and lurking, who have been diagnosed with personality disorders, and I, speaking as one of them, would be highly distressed if I believed your textbook.

I would also like to add my voice to Dinah's here. I found this thread very distressing to read. I know that a lot of literature says that PD's have a "poor prognosis" or are "untreatable" or a host of other negative phrases. However after doing a lot of research, I truly believe that anyone can change. That just because certain traits are ingrained in someone, it doesn't mean that they are a hopeless case. It just means that it may require them to work harder and for longer at changing their beliefs and coping strategies. But with a committment to change and the help of a good T, these changes *are* quite possible.

The traits are something they have learned to do throughout their childhood. And what has been learned, can be un-learned.

 

Re: OCD vs OCPD

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 16:52:40

In reply to Re: OCD vs OCPD B2chica, posted by littleone on June 28, 2006, at 15:41:30

I said that I was sorry and since that isn't good enough and my words are being twisted, and overexagerated, and taken out of context. I am not going to bother anymore with any of this anymore.
I was trying to help sort fact from fiction. I said I wasn't an expert and my textbook isn't the idea's of one person, it is based on recent information from thousands of studies. But I guess what they teach psycologists in college is all wrong , so why bother even discussing it. If the pychocolist who write the textbooks , and the teachers who teach the T's don't know anything, then I guess nobody does and all the scientific evidence isn't true. I guess we can ignore everything I have said, because I no longer exist here. Goodbye and enjoy your fantasy world.

 

Re: I give up Dinah

Posted by madeline on June 28, 2006, at 16:56:55

In reply to I give up happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:42:01

Also, keep in mind that textbooks used to say that homosexuality was a mental disorder, all women were hysterical and frontal labotomies were a good idea for ANY mental problem.

Keep the faith sweetie, there is ALWAYS hope. Always.

Maddie

 

Re: I give up Dinah

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 17:17:26

In reply to I give up happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 11:42:01

I didn't mean to distress you either.

And I'm not so distressed on my own behalf because I don't actually believe it. I just remembered that people have come here pretty discouraged about their diagnoses and I didn't want to contribute to that by continuing the discussion.

I did however look up a study by Stone on the long term prognosis for BPD, which is far more optimistic than they had previously believed. You might want to do a google search.

It's not worth you getting all upset over Happyflower. That's why I bowed out.

 

Re: I give up madeline

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 17:19:19

In reply to Re: I give up Dinah, posted by madeline on June 28, 2006, at 16:56:55

I'm a huge believer in hope. :)

My therapist and I were talking about it today and he said that it depends more on the individual than the disorder. I tend to think that's a good attitude for a therapist to have.

He also clarified that he didn't say I had borderline personality disorder, he said I had borderline traits. I guess I'm the one who identifies with borderline personality disorder.

Thanks, Madeline.

 

Oops. Second post up for Happyflower. (nm)

Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 17:22:11

In reply to Re: I give up Dinah, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2006, at 17:17:26

 

Excuse me? happyflower

Posted by TofuEmmy on June 28, 2006, at 18:06:23

In reply to Re: Continuing discussion of PD's--happyflower, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 7:15:03

"Yeah, those antisocials kinda creep me out! "

Substitute ANY other dx in that sentence and tell me that's OK? It's a dx with symptoms they didn't aspire to - any more than the rest of us.

em

 

Re: Excuse me? F*CK OFF!!! TofuEmmy

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:40:55

In reply to Excuse me? happyflower, posted by TofuEmmy on June 28, 2006, at 18:06:23

Well since you are going to put your own words in to my post, do you even know what antisocial personality disorder is?????

Well if sociopaths and psychopaths don't creep you out well then I don't know what would. If you can sleep with a socialpath roaming your neighborhood, then you are braver than most. MOST are not treated and kill many people with no remorse whatsoever. So hey, if that is your bag. well... I suppose we sh
ouldn't judge child molesters either and let your children play with them because we are all the same..... Hmmmmm Well everyone who wants to judge me and pick apart everything I say and put words into my posts, can F*CK OFF!!! I am tired of this sh*t, and yes I would be happy for a f*cking block but it doesn't matter to me anymore. SO GIVE ME A FUCKIN BLOCK !!! IT WILL MAKE ME FUCKIN HAPPY TO LEAVE .

 

GIVE ME A FUCKIN BLOCK YOU F*CKERS

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:42:21

In reply to Re: Excuse me? F*CK OFF!!! TofuEmmy, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:40:55

MAKE MY DAY!!!!

 

AND TOFU GIRL CAN STUFF THAT TOFU UP

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:47:57

In reply to GIVE ME A FUCKIN BLOCK YOU F*CKERS, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:42:21

YOUR FUCKIN *SS. I BET EVEN YOUR *SSHOLE IS VEGAN TOO JUST LIKE YOUR PERFECT SELF>

 

Re: AND TOFU GIRL CAN STUFF THAT TOFU UP

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:50:26

In reply to AND TOFU GIRL CAN STUFF THAT TOFU UP, posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 19:47:57

maybe you could go blow a psycho c*ck too and maybe he will chop you up in little pieces and eat you for his meals.

 

Excuse me? (THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR A BITCH) (nm)

Posted by happyflower on June 28, 2006, at 20:00:31

In reply to Excuse me? happyflower, posted by TofuEmmy on June 28, 2006, at 18:06:23


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