Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 660687

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Re: You were right **trigger ?** » ElaineM

Posted by Tamar on June 24, 2006, at 6:39:03

In reply to Re: You were right **trigger ?** » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on June 23, 2006, at 22:41:43

> Things shouldn't have changed, I don't understand why they did.

Whatever changed, it wasn’t your fault. He should have maintained professional boundaries. Therapists are supposed to engage in regular supervision or therapy themselves to ensure that their feelings about their clients can be contained and that their behaviour always remains professional. If something changed, it’s because he hasn’t taken responsibility for his feelings. It’s quite common for therapists to want to rescue their clients, or for them to feel strong feelings of love (or even negative emotions) towards their clients. They are not supposed to act on those feelings, because if they try to rescue you or if they try to have a mutual loving relationship with you (even a platonic one) they can no longer give you the therapy you need. Their own emotional needs intrude into the relationship. The professional guidelines for therapists make it absolutely clear that the patient must not be blamed or held responsible for the therapist’s feelings under any circumstances.

> I'm already questioning my interpretation of this morning. I can't remember the entire session, or his tone, or facial expressions. I don't remember what I did. (Like I can't remember if I held his hands back. How much I led him on, in a way.) I don't have the energy to contain all my guilt and sadness. And both are like giant erasers for your head.

I know what you mean about being unable to remember things. I think that often happens when we feel ambivalent about an event. On the one hand, you want his love; on the other hand you don’t want him to do anything wrong. It’s hard for you to know how to feel about it, and so memory becomes a problem.

About leading him on… it is not possible to lead on a therapist who keeps his boundaries. If you were to take off all your clothes and dance naked in front of him he should be able to tell you gently that he can’t be involved with you that way, but that he’d like to help you talk about your needs and desires. Therapists are supposed to understand that clients might have very powerful and even confusing feelings for them, and good therapists understand that it is their job to explore those feelings therapeutically rather than by acting out the client’s desires.

> I am glad that I didn't SI. I'm looking to other things to cope. Which isn't the best thing, I guess, but better than SI (to me at least). I just keep saying in my head that I look disgusting enough already. Maybe if he knew how ugly he would not even want to look at me anymore.

I’m sorry you feel ugly. I’m certain that you do not look disgusting. But who am I to talk? I think I look disgusting too. It’s part of the illness. And your therapist’s inappropriate behaviour will eventually make you feel worse about yourself. That’s why it’s so dangerous.

I’m so glad you didn’t SI! Well done. This is all so hard, and you’re handling it so well. (((((Elaine)))))

Tamar

 

Playing my own games? » Poet

Posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 9:46:41

In reply to Re: You were right **trigger ?** » ElaineM, posted by Poet on June 23, 2006, at 17:51:49

...I think. If he's doing and saying all these things to push my buttons(which it still hurts too much to fully believe), then I feel I could be doing the same. I'm always asking him questions. He likes that and says to ask more of anything. And he says he likes being able to tell someone his feelings, and fears and history. He says he has never trusted someone this way. And I keep asking, and listening and telling him how good he's doing, and that I understand how hard it is to uncensor yourself (especially being a T). I even told him how sorry I feel for him, and that it sounds like being a T is lonely. (I don't think I could ever be one, even if I was well-adjusted.) He tells me all of his sad family past, and growing up, and all the ways he used to cope. And I truly believe that he's never been like this before. It sounds like I'm being full of myself, but I think it would break him, or make him blow up with resentment towards the world for being open with another. (I've asked before if his other clients appreciate the changes in his technique, and he never answers straight, so that's why I think it's only me) And he says I'm the first he's ever really understood. (And there's nothing "romantic" in that, he's just exposing his humaness)

I can't help asking stuff, to figure him out, but perhaps it sounds like I'm coming on to him. I don't know how to be regular.

Anyways, thanks for being in my corner Poet. Sitting in a room with someone else will be harder than hard, but I am glad that it's a woman at least.

El

 

how? » gardenergirl

Posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 9:57:55

In reply to Re: You were right **trigger ?**, posted by gardenergirl on June 23, 2006, at 21:04:39

GG, What you said is like what the first reception guy said. What is his professional board? Do you know how I check that?

I am going to talk to another woman, but I only want to do it to help myself. Not get him in trouble. So I'm going to see what she says about that.

Part of what I've found confusing is that he has said that friendship IS therapy, and that it would help me change and get better more than anything else would. But reading other's experiences here has me questioning this. Alot. It is hard, there is what I feel deep inside (which changes), and there is what you all are saying. And I trust both (if that makes sense).

EL

 

Re: how? » ElaineM

Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2006, at 15:41:31

In reply to how? » gardenergirl, posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 9:57:55

> GG, What you said is like what the first reception guy said. What is his professional board? Do you know how I check that?

Nearly all professional therapists and counselors in nearly every state are required to be licsensed or at minimum registered with a State Board for their profession. If you feel comfortable with this, you could email me (or Babblemail me but you'll need to turn on Babblemail for me to reply that way) what state you are in and what your T's credentials are (i.e. clinical psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, marriage and family therapist, etc.) I can then find the contact information for his state professional board and pass that along to you. They should, at a minimum, be able to verify that he is legally allowed to treat patients and should also be able to tell you if he has had any sanctions.

And about your T opening up and telling you so much about himself. I can definitely relate to how gratifying it can feel to feel that someone trusts you enough to open up so much. But that is NOT what therapy is about. It's not what your therapy should be about, and your T should know this. What you describe about his disclosures are exactly what a T for HIM would be for. And I strongly disagree with his statement that friendship is therapy. That's certainly not what I have been working so hard at school to learn how to do! ;) And while it can be helpful and even therapeutic to talk to a trusted friend, therapy relationships and friendships are different types of relationships with different kinds of boundaries, different expectations, and different functions. It's perfectly normal for a T to feel friendly towards a client. However, when a T treats a client like a friend, then the T's needs come into the room. This can and does interfere with the therapy to the extent that it can not only make progress slow down or stop, but can also lead to regression and psychological damage.

Sorry to bang my drum so loudly. I get riled up and feel distressed when I read about situations such as you describe.

Let me know if you want me to look up the board for you. You can find my email in the FAQ http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#deputies

Take care,

gg
>
> I am going to talk to another woman, but I only want to do it to help myself. Not get him in trouble. So I'm going to see what she says about that.
>
> Part of what I've found confusing is that he has said that friendship IS therapy, and that it would help me change and get better more than anything else would. But reading other's experiences here has me questioning this. Alot. It is hard, there is what I feel deep inside (which changes), and there is what you all are saying. And I trust both (if that makes sense).
>
> EL

 

Re: how? » ElaineM

Posted by muffled on June 24, 2006, at 16:54:15

In reply to how? » gardenergirl, posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 9:57:55

El, your in a really confusing place right now.
There's lots of us here who have reason not to trust people easily. Many of us have been burned. Many by those we thot we loved or loved us. Its never easy. But you will sort things out. A neutral third party (diff.T) sounds like a good idea. I'm glad you have wasted no time and sought one out.
We here at babble who are able to do supporting at this time will help. Its seems there are times here where a person can help, and times when you have to step back and let others help you.
I have a friend who was talking bout co-dependancy. That might be an interesting thing for you to research and pass time doing.
Anyhow, I'm sure you'll do fine, its just real, real hard.
Take care,
Muffled

 

Re: You were right **trigger ?** » Tamar

Posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 22:14:46

In reply to Re: You were right **trigger ?** » ElaineM, posted by Tamar on June 24, 2006, at 6:39:03

Tamar, I think you sound like a T. Are you one in real life? I always feel less chaotic after reading your messages. You make things seem clear. I forget so quickly, and lose any small amount of conviction I have built up as soon as a moment passes. I need to keep being reminded. At best, I'm usually frozen with indecision.

I think my T is too old for having a T of his own. He told me about his different T's from when he was younger and new. He works in his own practice. But I think he talks to the two younger T's in his office. (I think, I'm not certain)

I'm trying to take your word, but all I do now is wonder how just letting things go as they are (however that may turn out) could possibly leave me feeling any worse than I do now. It doesn't seem possible. But I guess that's only cause it's this I'm experiencing right now, and the other outcome is only a "what if".

Thank you for helping me try and stay focused. (And I can't imagine you being disgusting either.)

EL

 

annie, cara, muffled

Posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 22:44:09

In reply to Re: how? » ElaineM, posted by muffled on June 24, 2006, at 16:54:15

I always appreciate you all taking time to offer encouragement and clarifications. I'm being too needy. I can't help it. But I am sorry. I feel that I will drown you all. I guess I'm not used to having anyone who will listen. It took me forever to get used to even the idea of a T. It felt like I was such a frustrating client, cause it was like they would say, Trust me Trust me Trust, and I'd pull away and arm myself. I was only beginning to become better at this whole thing. And now it's switched to, Don't trust him. It's not fair. It's confusing. Now that the issue is about my T, I didn't know what to do. Had nobody to turn to.

After finding everyone here, I really don't know what I would've done without all this help. Probably nothing. Except panic and cry more than I already do now. If I get through this okay I won't be such a baby, or so needy. (I just wanted to say so)

Thanks for tolerating me as much as you all have.
EL

 

email? » gardenergirl

Posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 23:18:13

In reply to Re: how? » ElaineM, posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2006, at 15:41:31

GG: Thank you for explaining about my T opening up. I need to hear stuff clarified like that.
I've probably asked this a ton of times but is this right: Even though we haven't had sex or anything, or kissed yet, the way things are for me is still bad because T's should not have friend relationships with clients?

I don't really get what Babblemail is. If I regular emailed you for the info and told you where I'm from (and I'm pretty sure my last name appears automatically from my own email address)would that appear anywhere that was public access? You'd never reveal any of that ever right? Or is it inappropriate for me to use my regular email, and/or let my name be known, even to you?

I'm kinda sure you'd do nothing, but I'm really paranoid about revealing my T through my personal info. (That's why I didn't even want to talk to my Dr) I mean, it's not like you'd hunt him down or anything, I'm just beyond anxious with everything to do with this subject, and afraid to trust even a little. Please don't be offended by my wariness.
EL

 

Re: email? » ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on June 24, 2006, at 23:26:38

In reply to email? » gardenergirl, posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 23:18:13

> I don't really get what Babblemail is. If I regular emailed you for the info and told you where I'm from (and I'm pretty sure my last name appears automatically from my own email address)would that appear anywhere that was public access? You'd never reveal any of that ever right? Or is it inappropriate for me to use my regular email, and/or let my name be known, even to you?

Babble mail is a secure communication system. Dr. Bob can't read them. Only you and the person you send it to can read them. They will not know your real email address. You will not know their real email address.

to turn on the babble mail option, go to the bottom of the page, where it says to REGISTER
click on that link and then it's something like this

https://dr-bob.securesites.com/cgi-bin/pb/signup.pl

and then you see a little option about halfway down the page "babblemail" just click the bubble for "on" and it will work.

Hope this helps!
Thinking of you Elaine :) I'm so glad you're posting here, it's not good to keep this stuff inside.

-llrrrpp

 

Re: email? » llrrrpp

Posted by llrrrpp on June 24, 2006, at 23:28:04

In reply to Re: email? » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on June 24, 2006, at 23:26:38


>
> to turn on the babble mail option, go to the bottom of the page, where it says to REGISTER
> click on that link and then it's something like this
>
> https://dr-bob.securesites.com/cgi-bin/pb/signup.pl
>

SORRY: you will also need to click on the link for UPDATE your registration. oops. I gotta get me in bed.


> and then you see a little option about halfway down the page "babblemail" just click the bubble for "on" and it will work.
>
> Hope this helps!
> Thinking of you Elaine :) I'm so glad you're posting here, it's not good to keep this stuff inside.
>
> -llrrrpp

 

You're not too needy! *SI trigger* » ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on June 24, 2006, at 23:39:42

In reply to annie, cara, muffled, posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 22:44:09

> I always appreciate you all taking time to offer encouragement and clarifications. I'm being too needy. I can't help it. But I am sorry. I feel that I will drown you all. I guess I'm not used to having anyone who will listen.
> Thanks for tolerating me as much as you all have.


Aww ((((((Elaine))))))

What you don't realize is that when you post things here, you are helping us too. You are helping us understand and put our own experiences into perspective. You probably don't know it, but reading about how you were able to keep your SI under control has given me strength to look at my arm and let it heal this week, rather than be harmed. If you can do it, I can.

And your posts are not selfish. This website is for support- both giving and receiving. It's your turn to receive (but you're also giving too!)I'm so glad you feel comfortable enough to share. I'm glad it's helping you, because you sound like a really nice person who is going through something really rough. You deserve all the support you can get. You're not too needy, and you're not going to drown us either. I don't respond to every post, because I often feel like I have nothing to offer besides generic pats on the back and whatnot. Or I feel overwhelmed, or mentally fuzzy... but that's my choice, and it has nothing to do with your self-worth!

I hope you can do something nice for yourself with the rest of the weekend

(((((more hugs for Elaine)))))
-ll

 

Re: email? (Thanks to llrrrpp for explaining) » ElaineM

Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2006, at 23:59:08

In reply to email? » gardenergirl, posted by ElaineM on June 24, 2006, at 23:18:13

> GG: Thank you for explaining about my T opening up. I need to hear stuff clarified like that.
> I've probably asked this a ton of times but is this right: Even though we haven't had sex or anything, or kissed yet, the way things are for me is still bad because T's should not have friend relationships with clients?

T's should never develop friend relationships with current clients. In addition, they are strongly discouraged from developing them after therapy terminates. Like others, I worry about your use of the word "yet" when you mention physical affection with him. It's okay and not uncommon to have sexual feelings for a T, but the T should make it very clear and repeat this as needed that this behavior is out of the question. And the T's actions should match this stance with appropriate boundaries. So if your T is giving you any indication that physical affection could be forthcoming and/or would be acceptable, I would be greatly concerned for your well-being.

About email. Llrrrpp's post about how to turn on Babblemail is accurate. That is a very secure way for us to communicate. I understand your concerns about privacy, and I agree that we have to be careful about sharing personal information with internet contacts. If you wish to send me an email, I will keep your personal information private and would not share it with anyone else.

You likely can also find your state's professional board information from a search engine such as Google. If you search using Board of ________ (your T's profession, i.e. psychology, psychiatry, social work, counselor, etc.) and your state name, you will probably find it. Most state's government websites have links to the different agencies and state boards.

gg

 

helpful :) » llrrrpp

Posted by ElaineM on June 25, 2006, at 10:51:20

In reply to You're not too needy! *SI trigger* » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on June 24, 2006, at 23:39:42

LL:
You are lovely. I never expect anyone to respond ever, so please don't feel like you always need to respond. And "pat on the backs" are just as helpful as advice - especially to someone who's used to worse, if anything. Holding onto the idea that you, or others, even only read my blubbering recaps of my sessions and worries, helps. I guess that's the whole Witness thing. When you have no one to share with, the despair of suffering alone makes the original problem itself continue to grow even bigger.

I used to write it (and other stuff) in a journal thinking, "If I'm ever not here, someone will find this at some point, and read it and know of everything." But I've found within the past year that that is not nearly enough anymore.

If it's true that anything I whine about can help you in the smallest way, then that makes me happy. The idea that I could help someone, instead of destroy them, is comforting.

(And thanks for the help with the B-mail. I'm still thinking about turning it on. I'm ridiculously paranoid even though it's secure. It took me forever to get the courage to post my first response here. Plus, I'm computer-dumb, and stuff I don't know freaks me out a bit)

Thanking((((you))))
El

 

Re: helpful :) » ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on June 25, 2006, at 11:14:01

In reply to helpful :) » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on June 25, 2006, at 10:51:20

I guess that's the whole Witness thing. When you have no one to share with, the despair of suffering alone makes the original problem itself continue to grow even bigger.
>
Oh yes- I know what you mean. I saw a T for the first time only 4 months ago, and it took me a while to work up the courage, but I spilled some heavy stuff that I had been holding onto for many years. Stuff that had become like a cancer. Growing way out of proportion, simply because I didn't have the tools to cut it out and excise it on my own.

> I used to write it (and other stuff) in a journal thinking, "If I'm ever not here, someone will find this at some point, and read it and know of everything." But I've found within the past year that that is not nearly enough anymore.
>
me too. my journal has been somewhat neglected since I found p-babble. I found that it wasn't helping me much anyways; it was just making me too introverted and analytical (intellectualizing my emotions, which is not what I need)

> If it's true that anything I whine about can help you in the smallest way, then that makes me happy. The idea that I could help someone, instead of destroy them, is comforting.
>
Keep it coming! You wont destroy us. As long as you're civil (which you have been) you're not going to hurt us. and my arm thanks you; *I* thank you.

> (And thanks for the help with the B-mail. I'm still thinking about turning it on. I'm ridiculously paranoid even though it's secure. It took me forever to get the courage to post my first response here. Plus, I'm computer-dumb, and stuff I don't know freaks me out a bit)
>

you're most welcome for b-mail help. I'm really impressed that you are so open with everything that's going on. Now, I'm doubly impressed, because if you're paranoid about b-mail then it must take a LOT of courage to keep posting about your ongoing struggles to figure out what your relationship with your T is all about. You are even stronger than I first thought.

thanks for saying nice things about me. I'm trying to learn to take these things to heart and not summarily dismiss them on account of my negative self-esteem. Everytime I get a compliment is another opportunity for me to work on this.

Elaine, I have a really poor memory surrounding events that are traumatic for me. I have had a couple of these events in the time that I have been posting on babble. I have found it really helpful to read my ol posts to get perspective. My first post after an event, the post a few days after that, once I've had a chance to assimilate various reponses, and perhaps a post that I've resolved an issue, or once the crisis has passed.

I think it's fascinating how my reactions to reading the responses varies so dramatically. Sometimes the first time I read a response I'll be angry, disagreeing, hurt. Then, when I go back a few days later, a little "saner" it makes perfect sense.

You're so conflicted right now, it might help you to go back and reread some of your updates on your situation, if you haven't done so already. It will help you remember details of the sessions that you might not have integrated yet. It might jog your memory for things to watch out for, or patterns in your own attempts to figure out the big picture. It might inspire you to give a strategy a shot, and to carry through on plans that you've already set in motion.

best wishes to you, Elaine

and of course, more sunday morning hugs ((((hugs:))) and some fresh squeezed OJ, super pulpy. If you have to strain it, don't let me see. My feelings might be hurt!

your friend,
ll

 

Re:info help » gardenergirl

Posted by ElaineM on June 25, 2006, at 20:57:48

In reply to Re: email? (Thanks to llrrrpp for explaining) » ElaineM, posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2006, at 23:59:08

GG: I typed in a few versions of what you said and I found one site where he was listed as a member. So he's definately legit - I always thought he was though. I just was becoming curious. The site didn't have a link for reading about if they had complaints filed against them though, only how to make one yourself. I couldn't find anything to do with his other title. So I don't know about that part. But I assume if one's okay, the other would be too.

I've been reading all the FAQ section (about not using real names for privacy, and possibly getting fired for saying things...) and am getting kinda worked up about what I've already said on here. I never really thought how public this place is. (that's my computer ignorance) I'm too afraid of mailing right now. I'll see how things go on Wed, hopefully the woman will be able to talk to me without knowing names, and my treatment history.

Thanks for the info, Elaine

 

Re:info help » ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on June 25, 2006, at 21:19:58

In reply to Re:info help » gardenergirl, posted by ElaineM on June 25, 2006, at 20:57:48

Elaine,
you can always wait until you get out of the situation with your T and file the report in a few weeks/months. Whenever you feel safe and distant enough. It's your decision.

Again, it's not an issue of whether your T is a good man. It's an issue of whether he was doing his job. From your descriptions of his behavior, he has been unprofessional, not just in a little slip, but in a sustained and escalating manner. I don't like thinking about what will happen to your relationship if you continue to see him. You deserve to have therapy with someone who is 100% dedicated and 100% competent to make you well. If your T were doing his job, you wouldn't be in this situation. Regardless of whether he is an intentional predator, or just a flawed human being, he is not a good T for you, and probably is not a good T for his other clients right now either.

If you are very worried about your confidentiality, you can always reregister using another name, now, or at any time in the future. You don't need to say what your old name was either. Ask gardenergirl for details on this one. I've never done it.

Realize that the www is a vast place, and that there are a lot of therapists in the USA/Canada/UK/Australia. I'm not sure what country you live in. You haven't dropped many personal details. I know that it's easy to feel paranoid when we feel guilty, and especially when we're holding a big secret. It will be okay though Elaine. It will all be okay, because you know that there is something wrong going on, and you are persisitent and determined and articulate enough to get the help you need, not only on psycho-babble, but also in real life.

If it will help you be open on Wed, just tell the new T that you are not comfortable giving too much personal identifying information in the first session. And I think she'll be okay with that, especially if you give her the reason for your visit. You may need to tell her about your treatment history, at least concerning your most recent treatments, since that's causing you such distress right now.

just a few thoughts?
have a good Monday, E
your friend,
-ll

 

not to mislead you » llrrrpp

Posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 9:42:55

In reply to Re:info help » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on June 25, 2006, at 21:19:58

ll: Thanks for reassuring me about the web stuff. (And I did go back and read some of my posts again).

I think I might have mislead you though. I'm not going to make a complaint against him. I never ever would. I was only thinking that if something written existed, then I could read it and not have to question his intentions. I thought it could be proof of his goodness of badness. That's really the only reason I was looking into lists. (Though it was nice to see that he is a member for real.)

Also, I'm not getting rid of him really. I think we care about each other, and I think he might need me a little. However, I do now believe that he can't be my T. He doesn't sound anything like the good ones others have. (I've never even heard of some of the concepts mentioned in other threads, and he doesn't like SI stuff.) And I'll probably need help with that now.

I would like to talk to a female T, but I will always be his friend. I would see the woman secretly (I couldn't tell him I was stopping) I would be too alone without him. And he was already sad yesterday when I said I'd have to leave early on Wed.

It's true I'm not comfortable leaving. I'm afraid of meeting someone new. I'm afraid of both not being able to say what I need to, and that I will. I'm afraid of letting something slip. I'm afraid she will not speak to me if I can't be less evasive. And I'm afraid of SI. (I'm even kind of afraid that she won't show up too.)

Worse, I'm building this up to be an end. Like, all I have to do is speak on Wed and everything will magically fix, only cause I worked so hard to open my mouth. At best, it is only a beginning. And when I think about it that way I don't want to start this at all. It's too hard, and my insides are too tired. I don't believe I'm going to do this! I'm going to go, and I will try to speak, but I barely understand that this is happening. (I just didn't want you to think I was saying I was going to do something that I'm not, and can't.)

(Also, in another post it sounds like I said, go away with him next weekend. I didn't mean the whole thing. Only one day, and not overnight.)

llrrrpp, thanks for all your words :)
EL

 

Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM

Posted by MidnightBlue on June 26, 2006, at 10:10:37

In reply to not to mislead you » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 9:42:55

Elaine,

I have been reading your thread and am quite worried about you. You really MUST try to talk to this new woman pdoc/therapist. Could you print out a few of YOUR posts where you describe that he did or said in treatment and just hand them to her?

Explain how very difficult and painful this is for you. That you do NOT want to get him into trouble. That you are VERY confused about what things mean and what is proper behavior on his part.

I think this is the way to go. After reading a few of those she would then know what questions to ask you to help you explain.

PLEASE take care of yourself. You are very precious.

Hugs,

MidnightBlue

 

Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM

Posted by llrrrpp on June 26, 2006, at 12:32:22

In reply to not to mislead you » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 9:42:55

> ll: Thanks for reassuring me about the web stuff. (And I did go back and read some of my posts again).
>
Good

> I think I might have mislead you though. I'm not going to make a complaint against him. I never ever would. I was only thinking that if something written existed, then I could read it and not have to question his intentions. I thought it could be proof of his goodness of badness. That's really the only reason I was looking into lists. (Though it was nice to see that he is a member for real.)
>
You know what? something written DOES exist. It exists from a credible source. It is something YOU wrote. Maybe you don't take yourself seriously. You may be so conflicted and wrapped up in this that you don't realize the extent to which your T has manipulated your feelings. Just imagine if someone else had written the posts. Just imagine if you cared about that person. What advice would you give her?

> Also, I'm not getting rid of him really. I think we care about each other, and I think he might need me a little. However, I do now believe that he can't be my T. He doesn't sound anything like the good ones others have. (I've never even heard of some of the concepts mentioned in other threads, and he doesn't like SI stuff.) And I'll probably need help with that now.

You're not going to get rid of him as a person, but the more I read, the more it sounds like you need to extricate yourself from the relationship. Of course you care about him. Therapists are very skilled at adjusting and manipulating the therapeutic relationship. Ideally it would be in the best interests of the client. In your case, the relationship is making you sick; and this is very scary for me, because I care what happens to you. You have warning bells going off in your head, and the people who respond to your posts have warning bells going off too. We're worried about you.

> I would like to talk to a female T, but I will always be his friend. I would see the woman secretly (I couldn't tell him I was stopping) I would be too alone without him. And he was already sad yesterday when I said I'd have to leave early on Wed.

You don't have to think he's a bad person. But honestly, wouldn't a friend care enough to make his friend better? Wouldn't a true friend feel bad about taking money for therapy and not providing therapeutic services? Wouldn't a true friend worry about what effect his actions are having on the delicate mental state of a friend? Wouldn't a friend worry about providing mixed messages- romantic face touching, gestures consistent with marriage proposal, invitations for a friendly outing, yet, taking place in the therapy office? These are things that I would never impose on a friendship. He's taking a lot from you, and giving nothing but pain and hurt in return. Maybe in the past your therapy was more productive, but enough is enough.

> It's true I'm not comfortable leaving. I'm afraid of meeting someone new. I'm afraid of both not being able to say what I need to, and that I will. I'm afraid of letting something slip. I'm afraid she will not speak to me if I can't be less evasive. And I'm afraid of SI. (I'm even kind of afraid that she won't show up too.)
>
Of couse you're not comfortable leaving. That's perfectly natural. You have an intimate relationship with your T (emotionally intimate) and he's using that to hold onto you. You're captured, but not by your own free-will, rather, because he has manipulated you into thinking that you're necessary for his survival. You feel morally obliged to help him, but actually- the most important obligation you have is to yourself. A lot of us don't realize this. I'm guilty of it myself. When I have been very depressed in the past few months, there were many points at which I wasn't living for myself. The only reason I was hanging onto life was because of important relationships I had. But I also know, that for most of my life, I loved myself. And in order to love someone else, truly, you have to love yourself (even just a little). Loving yourself is what the T is supposed to be helping you with. I really hope that you can make some progress on that with your new T. It takes a lot of time, particularly if you've been in difficult relationships. But ultimately, every person deserves to love, and be loved for who s/he is. And if therapy can make that happen, it is worth the struggle.

> Worse, I'm building this up to be an end. Like, all I have to do is speak on Wed and everything will magically fix, only cause I worked so hard to open my mouth. At best, it is only a beginning. And when I think about it that way I don't want to start this at all. It's too hard, and my insides are too tired. I don't believe I'm going to do this! I'm going to go, and I will try to speak, but I barely understand that this is happening. (I just didn't want you to think I was saying I was going to do something that I'm not, and can't.)

I know it's only a beginning. It's a really hard way to start, and it's the start of something major. That's why I'm so proud of you that you are taking the right steps- going to the student center, going to make an appt. with a new T, posting here. These are all significant steps. I realize that Wed. is not the final goal, but it is the next step. And healing is a long and arduous process. But you can do it. When you have the right support, you can do lots. You're smart, and articulate, and even though your emotions are very difficult for you to interpret and put in context, you have the intelligence to learn what they are telling you. Your T should be able to help you interpret these emotions, and figure this stuff out. If you cannot speak about these emotions, then your T cannot help you (that's regarding the old T). Your new T will have to get to know you, but I have a lot of hope for you. I think you can get started on the right path.

> (Also, in another post it sounds like I said, go away with him next weekend. I didn't mean the whole thing. Only one day, and not overnight.)
>

Hmm, I'm not sure that this is a good idea. Does it feel like it's going to make YOU better? be 100% selfish. Is the trip going to help ELAINE? If not, then why are you going?

> llrrrpp, thanks for all your words :)


Elaine, Thank YOU for all of your words. It means a lot to me that you trust me enough to tell me this stuff and be honest and open about it. It takes a lot, and I know that.

your friend,
-ll

 

Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM

Posted by muffled on June 26, 2006, at 17:42:41

In reply to not to mislead you » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 9:42:55

I was gonna post but LLrrrpp pretty much covered whatI had to say.
Let me say for myself though that you DO come across as such a sweet and caring person.
I just wanted to post in support of you and the road ahead.
I hope this female T is a good fit for you. Not all T's are a good fit.
If she's not then perhaps she could direct you to another female.
Breaking up ANY T relationship is hard.
I really don't want to rag on you, but IMO your posts show so much wrong in your relationship with him.
Please take care,
You're so very worth it.
Also, I have never had a prob. with babblemail. It can be nice if you want to discuss something privately(and of course carefully) with another poster. Babblemail isn't in the public domain. All your posts are. I feel posts often help others so I mostly post publicly, but I do use babblemail occasionally.
Take care,
Muffled

 

never thought of it » MidnightBlue

Posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 21:57:02

In reply to Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on June 26, 2006, at 10:10:37

MB:
It never occured to me to read only my own posts - before announcing any questionings maybe. Then she could say whatever she thought without me planting ideas in her head. Sorry, I'm not very vocal now. (hard day - spiraling) But I always welcome input.(my own brain is dead until others jump-start it)

Thanks for hugs, EL

 

thanks for your clarity » llrrrpp

Posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 22:50:27

In reply to Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM, posted by llrrrpp on June 26, 2006, at 12:32:22

LL: No words from today's session - no point :( bad day. not doing well with symptoms. expected though.
...but I had to say how helpful your words always are. That was a moving post. You are such a personable person and writer.(not just in my thread either) I'd like to think half as clearly as you write. Not only what you say, but how you say it - for a moment the equivocating voice in my head is silenced. (need to learn how to make that last)

Hugs whenever YOU need them, EL


 

Muffled : )

Posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 23:03:10

In reply to Re: not to mislead you » ElaineM, posted by muffled on June 26, 2006, at 17:42:41

Muffled:
I DO hear what you're saying. what everyone's saying. I do. Trying now to act on it. I'll try to remember that if this woman doesn't work out that there are others....(sorry, I'm fuzzy tonight)
Thanks for being caring yourself.

always hoping you're well, EL


 

Re: never thought of it » ElaineM

Posted by MidnightBlue on June 29, 2006, at 10:45:27

In reply to never thought of it » MidnightBlue, posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 21:57:02

Elaine,

Did you see the new doctor? How did it go? Worried about you.....

MidnightBlue

 

Howzit going? (nm) » ElaineM

Posted by muffled on June 29, 2006, at 10:59:02

In reply to Muffled : ), posted by ElaineM on June 26, 2006, at 23:03:10


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