![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
I've written before that I'm in a Fellowship program about Infant Mental health. The speaker this weekend is a leading expert in early childhood abuse and trauma. His web site is: Childtrauma.org. He is a great speaker and it is fascinating how the brain develops and what happens with traumatic experiences. But I can't begin to tell you how hard it is to listen to him talk about all these different children who are being abused by their parents. He said, "it is sad that we've had to create systems that protect children from their parents." No kidding.
My therapist and I talked about this class a lot. Luckily, he moved my Thursday appointment to the morning because I was in class all afternoon. First we went through ways to protect myself in the moment. He gave me permission to step out. He also said I didn't need top push myself around this, I push hard enough in therapy. He gave me the talisman to hold and I left one of my favorite stuffed animals (though not my most special one - I just couldn't...) with him. I had this visualization of packing up little daisy, with her toy for the weekend and leaving her to be taken care of with "our" therapist. He said he liked the idea.
But he said I was ready to start taking care of her myself too. He said when I feel scared or overwhelmed, I should stop and consider which part of me is needing more safety and then find a way to give it to her. I cried, because I know I need to and I'm so terrified I'll fail her. Again. My therapist was really gentle but kind of relentless. He said I'm not little anymore and I can "run away" if I need to. And that wasn't a bad thing. He also said it is important to know how strong I am because I survived all of that so i can this too. And then he caved a little and said, "I'm with you. Just reach out with your mind and you will feel me. Let yourself hear my words. And call me if you need me."
The more I heard people talking today the more I believe that my therapy is exactly right for me, my therapist is special and gifted and not that many people get to do this deep work in this way. I think I should remember to tell him that on Monday.
Posted by All Done on June 24, 2006, at 3:21:15
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
(((Daisy))),
I'm sorry this weekend is full of triggers, but I am so very glad it led to the discussion you had with your therapist. It sounds absolutely wonderful and enlightening for you. Hang onto this post. Keep it with you for when you're feeling not so confident about your relationship.
Your therapist *is* very special. No doubt about that. To me, too, because he's always there for my friend.
And my suggestion if it gets too difficult for you...leave for a little shoe shopping break. ;)
Lots of love,
Laurie
Posted by annierose on June 24, 2006, at 6:38:57
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
Your T is special and so are you. I'm so glad you found him and kept with it, despite how darn hard therapy can be at times.
I think you are taking good care of little and big Daisy right now. You won't fail her. And remember, it's okay to take a mis-step now and then.
You are doing such good work.
Love, Annie
Posted by happyflower on June 24, 2006, at 8:04:49
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
Hi Daisy!
Please take care of yourself this weekend. I know it would very hard for me to hear this stuff. In Pysch class my teach was also talking about the development of the brain, and what sever stress of child abuse does on the brain during develpment. It was SO hard to sit there and listen to.
Then one say we say a film about PTSD and I had tears in my eyes,(which doesn't happen much) because I KNOW how it feels. My teach kept looking at me afterwards because I guess she could tell I was upset. But I didn't say anything after that film, and normally I am very talkative. But even though it was very hard to do, it did help me a lot to understand the severity of my childhood trama.
(((((Daisy))))) You are wonderful ! ;-) Your T is luckey to be able to work with you. Take care.
Posted by sunnydays on June 24, 2006, at 10:51:43
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
Hi,
I haven't posted to you before, but what your T said sounds a lot like what my T says sometimes. Except that your T sounds a little more comforting because he gives you his talisman to hold :). But my T is constantly telling me that I'm not a little girl anymore and that I can start reacting from a more adult place. Of course, I'm only 20, so I think he wants to make sure he helps me know how to act like an adult because I'm just getting there and haven't had much practice with it. But he says that when I'm sad he thinks I'm identifying with that little girl part of me. And he's always so gentle when I'm sad, and I think he does understand how much that little girl part of me hurts. Anyway, these seem to be sort of disconnected thoughts to me, but I hope there's something of value in there. And I've been reading here a long time before I started posting, and I think you are an amazingly strong person. Good luck this weekend. ((daisym))
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on June 24, 2006, at 11:20:42
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
Hi Daisy,
I left all the little Poets with my T a long time ago, though I didn't leave any toys. I told my T that I think they ran away, but she says she knows they're there and waiting for me when I'm ready. Little Daisy will be fine with (both) your therapist.
I would have had a hard time with that lecture, I don't know if I would have even gone in the first place. Again, you have much more courage than I do.
Take care.
Poet
Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2006, at 15:49:00
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
Hi Daisy,
It's good to see you here.Boy do I resonate with what you describe about your T moving you towards taking care of little Daisy. As I move towards termination, my T has been countering some of the issues and feelings I bring up by pointing out the positive part of it or the progress I'm showing in it. A lot of the time that really bugs me! LOL, you would think I'd enjoy hearing good things I'm doing, but it is tied to me moving towards growing up and "giving up the sick role" as he puts it. That is really hard. Appealing more and more, but still hard and scary.
I agree your T is wonderful. Feel free to tell him that from me, too. :)
Take care,
gg
Posted by muffled on June 24, 2006, at 17:08:39
In reply to CSA lecture - trigger, posted by Daisym on June 24, 2006, at 0:29:58
But he said I was ready to start taking care of her myself too. He said when I feel scared or overwhelmed, I should stop and consider which part of me is needing more safety and then find a way to give it to her. I cried, because I know I need to and I'm so terrified I'll fail her. Again. My therapist was really gentle but kind of relentless. He said I'm not little anymore and I can "run away" if I need to.
**I'm trying to take care of my Kid, but I dissapoint her LOTS. She don't really trust me, but she don't hate me either.
What does he mean by run away? Physically?
The Kid can't run, so its our adult job to protect, so if we run, they are with us. So they'll be ok. Is that what it means?
Thanks
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on June 25, 2006, at 1:59:04
In reply to Re: CSA lecture - trigger » Daisym, posted by All Done on June 24, 2006, at 3:21:15
We had the option at lunchtime of eating with our peers or stepping out. I stepped out and bought a tote that says, "If the shoe fits, buy an outfit to match!" :)
I learned such amazing things about healing that are biologically tied and make perfect sense. I just wish the speakers weren't so casual with their stories and language. One of the things that stayed with me is that this speaker believes that most therapies are "biologically disrespectful" meaning they don't acknowledge the need for relationship above and beyond everything else. Our basic biology programs us to need 30-40
"tribesmen" or our clan, but we live in environments that are relationally impoverished and most therapies are focused on making us independent, not interdependent. The other thing that was fascinating was that trauma actually creates changes in the brain stem--so in order to promote healing you have to break through to this part of the brain. And what does the brain stem want? Attachment, attachment, attachment. (OK...and air, food and water.)I called my therapist last night, just to check in. I think my message was "I'm OK. OK, I'm not OK. But I'll be OK. Don't worry, OK?" And I said he didn't have to call me back, I was touching based like we'd agreed. He left a message for me this morning and said, "Any message that has 5 OKs in a row needs follow up." And then he said a bunch of other grounding things. We didn't connect but it was OK -- I like having the message.
And little daisy is quiet tonight and tired. I think "she" has been hypervigilient for three days straight and is glad to rest now. Poised for flight -- that "run away" response. I've been thinking about that. As a young child I couldn't run away but now I can. I just have to remember that i can. i still want to immediately freeze.
Thanks for all the support.
love and hugs,
Daisy.
Posted by happyflower on June 25, 2006, at 7:03:32
In reply to I learned a Ton, posted by Daisym on June 25, 2006, at 1:59:04
Hi Daisy,
Glad you are handling things well! :-)
I just learned through my Pysch class just how much abuse on children effects the brain and how a lot of personality disorders are biology based. It kinda surprised me about the child abuse, I thought it was mostly "nurture" and not so much "nature" But both play a huge role.
Good job, get some rest, keep in touch.
Happyflower
Posted by sunnydays on June 25, 2006, at 10:28:10
In reply to I learned a Ton, posted by Daisym on June 25, 2006, at 1:59:04
It does sound like you learned a lot. I think it's very interesting that the brain changes during abuse, but also kind of discouraging. I want to be able to 'think' my way out of it, and if it's my brain that's been changed, I may actually have to feel things. *pout* But that's what my T's been telling me all along, and I know it's true. I'm just still scared of feeling, so it's hard. But it sounds like a really interesting conference.
I'm glad little daisy can rest now. Everyone needs rest sometimes. Another thing my T tells me is that "Humans weren't made to be on gaurd all the time." So it's important to find ways to rest.
sunnydays
Posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2006, at 11:55:21
In reply to I learned a Ton, posted by Daisym on June 25, 2006, at 1:59:04
> We had the option at lunchtime of eating with our peers or stepping out. I stepped out and bought a tote that says, "If the shoe fits, buy an outfit to match!" :)
*** Perfect.
>
> I learned such amazing things about healing that are biologically tied and make perfect sense. I just wish the speakers weren't so casual with their stories and language.*** Did they ever talk about the prevalence of child abuse, and acknowledge that X% of the people in the class had probably been abused? I'm sure that you weren't the only one.
One of the things that stayed with me is that this speaker believes that most therapies are "biologically disrespectful" meaning they don't acknowledge the need for relationship above and beyond everything else. Our basic biology programs us to need 30-40
"tribesmen" or our clan, but we live in environments that are relationally impoverished and most therapies are focused on making us independent, not interdependent.*** That is really interesting. If I feel brave I might try to write down the names of people who would be willing to go out of their way for me. I wonder how many that is. And they are geographically dispersed. I bet that makes a difference. So we need 30-40 people who we see all the time who care about us???
*** Independence vs. Interdependence. Is this because we don't have the tribe to fall back on, so we have tended to try to compensate, rather than building the social structures that we need? I think that Babble encourages interdependence - and that is a good thing. And the fact that so many of us are lonely so much of the time says that we need more interdependence. So let's stop feeling guilty for being so needy all the time! We are supposed to be needy!
The other thing that was fascinating was that trauma actually creates changes in the brain stem--so in order to promote healing you have to break through to this part of the brain. And what does the brain stem want? Attachment, attachment, attachment. (OK...and air, food and water.)
*** This is comforting to me. That my dependence on my therapist **IS** healing. And also my dependence on friends, both IRL and Babble, is healing, too.
*** It also reminds me of my Ah-Ha moment when I watched "What the Bleep do we Know?". There is a section where they talk about how frequently used pathways in the brain become stronger (more hardwired). And to make significant changes, we not only have to establish new pathways, which takes repetitions, but also have to dismantle the old familiar pathways. This section of the movie has helped me to understand why therapy takes time, and helped me to be patient with incremental progress. It helps to explain why just because I understand something intellectually, I still need to work over time to make it part of my being. Sort of like how muscles work. You know what you want your muscles to do, but you have to build strength before they can do it.
>
> I called my therapist last night, just to check in. I think my message was "I'm OK. OK, I'm not OK. But I'll be OK. Don't worry, OK?" And I said he didn't have to call me back, I was touching based like we'd agreed. He left a message for me this morning and said, "Any message that has 5 OKs in a row needs follow up." And then he said a bunch of other grounding things. We didn't connect but it was OK -- I like having the message.*** It was "OK"?? So your therapist rates the "OK"ness of your voice mails, what a smart guy.
>
> And little daisy is quiet tonight and tired. I think "she" has been hypervigilient for three days straight and is glad to rest now. Poised for flight -- that "run away" response. I've been thinking about that. As a young child I couldn't run away but now I can. I just have to remember that i can. i still want to immediately freeze.*** Yes, you can run away now. And that is what you are doing in your marriage. You are protecting yourself by running away. You can do this.
>
> Thanks for all the support.
> love and hugs,
> Daisy.
(((((Daisy)))))I'm glad you could learn these things, and that you can pass them on to us!
Love,
Falls
Posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2006, at 12:44:15
In reply to Re: I learned a Ton, posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2006, at 11:55:21
"What the Bleep do we Know?" in movie format...
Posted by happyflower on June 27, 2006, at 19:00:53
In reply to Link correction, posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2006, at 12:44:15
Are you home yet? How did the rest of the convention go?
Posted by littleone on June 28, 2006, at 21:32:09
In reply to I learned a Ton, posted by Daisym on June 25, 2006, at 1:59:04
This all sounds so interesting. Thank you for sharing it with us.
> "Any message that has 5 OKs in a row needs follow up."
I like when they see past the okay's. My word is "fine". If I'm fine, my T know's for a fact I'm not. Kinda sad to think that immediate family still don't have a clue re that. They had 30 plus years to figure it out. My T did it within a couple of weeks (or maybe sooner, I forget).
> And little daisy is quiet tonight and tired. I think "she" has been hypervigilient for three days straight and is glad to rest now. Poised for flight -- that "run away" response. I've been thinking about that. As a young child I couldn't run away but now I can. I just have to remember that i can. i still want to immediately freeze.You are doing so well. I forget where I read it, but it really sounded like you stayed with little daisy during this difficult time. That you didn't desert her to fend for herself. You did so well to do that. I think that's a big step.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.