Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 602994

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victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 10:53:52

ok, so most of you know about my brother and how he abused me sexually growing up. well once i told my T about my mother and the things she'd do he told me that most likely my mother was doing those same things to him, and he was just copycating onto me. so i'm struggling right now cuz i was just starting to be able to get mad at my brother but now if i see him as a victim then my head says "no, can't be mad at him, he couldn't help it".
i'm torn up inside.
help me.
i think the little girl is starting to come out.
i can't seem to function well at work today.
i'm scared, don't want to move.
you can't make me...yes you can, anyone can. i always end up doing what i don't want to do and what scares me and makes me feel uncomfortable. no one to tell, no one cares. they won't listen, i can't tell.
things are starting to get fuzzy.
schools not any better.

little b2.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica

Posted by James K on January 26, 2006, at 14:00:40

In reply to victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 10:53:52

You're complete story is too far up the page to reread, plus I don't feel comfortable (as a male) to research you like that.

I think, what your brother did as a child, he might not could of control. there is an age of accountability though. thoughts are sick, actions are evil.

I think it is okay to be furious at what was done to you and the perpetrators while still feeling sorrow and understanding of what they've gone through. Forgiveness is something you can choose to do if and when you feel like it. The important thing is to be able to remember without the pain.

It took a long time for me to not be a victim. Bad stuff happened to me and continued to happen long after I thought I should have been able to excert the control. I can be very scarey now, and that's no answer. The answer is in the middle.

You have my support and prayer just now. (if you would prefer that males stay out of this, just let me know in a post or babblemail - no hard feeling at all, or maybe I'm oversensitive to a non-issue)

James K

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica

Posted by muffled on January 26, 2006, at 14:19:59

In reply to victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 10:53:52

so i'm struggling right now cuz i was just starting to be able to get mad at my brother but now if i see him as a victim then my head says "no, can't be mad at him, he couldn't help it".
> i'm torn up inside.
> help me.
> i think the little girl is starting to come out.
> i can't seem to function well at work today.
> i'm scared, don't want to move.
> you can't make me...yes you can, anyone can. i always end up doing what i don't want to do and what scares me and makes me feel uncomfortable. no one to tell, no one cares. they won't listen, i can't tell.
> things are starting to get fuzzy.
> schools not any better.
>
> little b2.
Hey little B2, big B2 can take care of you. My adult is kindof stupid and I don't trust her and shes trying to be my mommy and she bad at it. But I don't hate her anymore.
Its ok to be scared. I get scared lots and lots but not as much as I used to. Cuz she has let me be around more and I'm learning stuff and its not near so scarey as I thought it was. Once you been around more you can know that too. So if your B2 is anything like mine she may do lotsa stupid stuff but its best to try and be nice and then you can get along and that feels better and mebbe then you can be around more and learn to not be scared.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 15:14:31

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica, posted by James K on January 26, 2006, at 14:00:40

males welcome.
i've basically remembering different types of abuse and i was to the stage of maybe beliving it and starting to get mad, then my T said that what my mom did was s.and physical and emotional abuse also and that she was probably doing it to my brother and that's why he did things to/hurt me. it started when i was about 7 or 8 and went till i was 11 or 12 which would make my brother 10-14.

talk more later
b2c.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica

Posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 19:35:18

In reply to victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 10:53:52

> ok, so most of you know about my brother and how he abused me sexually growing up. well once i told my T about my mother and the things she'd do he told me that most likely my mother was doing those same things to him, and he was just copycating onto me. so i'm struggling right now cuz i was just starting to be able to get mad at my brother but now if i see him as a victim then my head says "no, can't be mad at him, he couldn't help it".

(((((B2Chica)))))

> i'm torn up inside.

It's difficult. He probably knew that what he was doing to you was wrong, because he knew that what your 'mother' was doing to him was wrong. But people often repeat what's done to them.

> help me.

Well... you brother isn't completely free of guilt in all this (IMHO). He hurt you; there's no denying that. Even if there are compelling reasons to feel some compassion for him, he still hurt you. Your compassion for him might temper your feelings of rage towards him, but you are still entitled to those feelings of rage, because he really did hurt you. And even if you acknowledge that he might have been a victim too, you nevertheless need to acknowledge that he victimised you and that was wrong and hurtful.

> i think the little girl is starting to come out.
> i can't seem to function well at work today.
> i'm scared, don't want to move.
> you can't make me...yes you can, anyone can. i always end up doing what i don't want to do and what scares me and makes me feel uncomfortable. no one to tell, no one cares. they won't listen, i can't tell.

We care. You can tell us. We will never blame you and we will always believe you.

> things are starting to get fuzzy.
> schools not any better.
>
> little b2.

(((((little B2)))))

I know it's hard when you feel no one will believe you. But this is one place where you'll always be blelieved. No one here will accuse you of lying. People here will be sympathetic. We care about what happened to you. Similar things have happened to some of the people here. I liked Muffly's reply to you. I think it's good for our little ones to talk to each other. Maybe that way our little ones can find some acceptance among inside kids their own ages...

Tamar

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* Tamar

Posted by B2chica on January 27, 2006, at 9:20:06

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica, posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 19:35:18

Tamar....thank you. its rare to none to hear such words.


> I know it's hard when you feel no one will believe you. But this is one place where you'll always be blelieved. No one here will accuse you of lying. People here will be sympathetic. We care about what happened to you.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica

Posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 11:35:05

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* Tamar, posted by B2chica on January 27, 2006, at 9:20:06

I've said a million times: "but he didn't mean to hurt me."

My therapist says, "but he did, or is. Just because someone doesn't mean to doesn't mean you aren't hurt. It isn't OK for you to be hurt. You can be upset or angry about being hurt."

This is a very hard concept for me, to not instantly forgive and decide that I shouldn't be hurt because they didn't mean for it to be hurtful. I want it to be my fault for reacting this way, instead of their fault for doing something.

It is hard to know what really happened with your brother. I think you are searching for reasons so that you can understand WHY he would do these things. I started keeping a list of what I KNOW to be true, what I THINK might be true based on evidence, and what I'm GUESSING at. This helps me when I'm really messed up and looking for those answers. Because sometimes I get the knowing and guessing and thinking all twisted together and I just hate everyone at that point. It also helps me stop seeing demons around every corner, turning everything into abuse or negative situations. For example: When I was a kid, temperatures were taken rectally. It wasn't abuse. I want to keep this separate from what I KNOW was abuse. Otherwise I doubt every experience I had and my perception of it.

I believe what happened to you was very bad and not your fault. I hope you can soothe yourself and have a peaceful weekend.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:29:42

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica, posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 11:35:05

i just want to soak up all the pain on this board. i figure i'm messed up enough that i'll take others pain and fill myself up. i'm already damaged, a little more won't matter.
let me keep all the bad, all the anger cuz i know how to control it. -that's what my T and i were last talking about.

i know what my brother did at first he was probably acting out but the more he did things the worse they got both physically and sexually and i know my mother wouldn't have had sex with my brother she was too angry for that. Pleasure was wrong. i think that hurting me never entered into his mind. it was all about him, his needs. i was a thing.

my 'mother' at first did things cuz she didn't know any better but became increasingly angry at me. she became very rough. i hated bath time cuz she scrubbed my privates terribly hard, i remember being so sore, and she'd dry my hair first then comb it out (i had long hair-those of you know you comb first then dry, otherwise it's extremely painful.) my crying didn't help things either. that usually made it worse.
when she took my temp rectally at first i'm sure it's just what she knew but as i got older i wanted her to stop and she'd have me pull down my pants or completely undress and she'd hold me down on the bed to do it. i remember on many occassions it was painful.
this along with other things, i believe she just got more and more mad at me for even being there. she once told me that she didn't even want kids but that there was so much pressure to have them. well, even though that comment s@cked i am glad i'm here.
(couldn't have said that a few months ago).

thank you all for your comments.

i think i'm still numb and on the border of acceptance-not quite there though.
(big b2c)

sad, and lonely wanting to be held. please if i'm not to sick, somebody hold me.
(little b2c)

 

sorry, big ***TRIGGER*** above (nm) B2chica

Posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:36:22

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:29:42

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica

Posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 13:55:20

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 13:29:42

> i just want to soak up all the pain on this board. i figure i'm messed up enough that i'll take others pain and fill myself up. i'm already damaged, a little more won't matter.
> let me keep all the bad, all the anger cuz i know how to control it. -that's what my T and i were last talking about.
***I don't understand this part?
>
> i know what my brother did at first he was probably acting out but the more he did things the worse they got both physically and sexually and i know my mother wouldn't have had sex with my brother she was too angry for that. Pleasure was wrong. i think that hurting me never entered into his mind. it was all about him, his needs. i was a thing.
***Kids can be selfish. I find it a little hard to beleive that he didn't on some level know it was wrong. Mebbe he just never learned properly what to do with right and wrong?
>
> my 'mother' at first did things cuz she didn't know any better but became increasingly angry at me. she became very rough. i hated bath time cuz she scrubbed my privates terribly hard, i remember being so sore, and she'd dry my hair first then comb it out (i had long hair-those of you know you comb first then dry, otherwise it's extremely painful.) my crying didn't help things either. that usually made it worse.
***She sounds pretty screwed up
> when she took my temp rectally at first i'm sure it's just what she knew but as i got older i wanted her to stop and she'd have me pull down my pants or completely undress and she'd hold me down on the bed to do it. i remember on many occassions it was painful.
***yup. She screwed up all right.
> this along with other things, i believe she just got more and more mad at me for even being there. she once told me that she didn't even want kids but that there was so much pressure to have them. well, even though that comment s@cked i am glad i'm here.
> (couldn't have said that a few months ago).
***Words. Words are so bad. Bad, bad, bad.
I'm glad your here too. I think you help many with your honesty.
>
> thank you all for your comments.
>
> i think i'm still numb and on the border of acceptance-not quite there though.
> (big b2c)
***But getting there, getting there....
Muffled
>
> sad, and lonely wanting to be held. please if i'm not to sick, somebody hold me.
> (little b2c)
***Ah little B2, me and my kid foughtlike crazy at first. Big B2C will come around. She's really nice, and smart too, and I dunno whether she knows it yet, but she needs you too. I don't think your sick at all. Little cutie. Stupid other people just done stupid things and sometimes thats the way it is. But its gonna get better. You and Big B2C are gonna have tons of fun. Keep reminding her you just a KID. That was the biggest stumbling block for me with my kid. Take care, I give you hugs ((((((((little B2C)))) and cuddles and tickles and we can laugh, cuz you just a kid and I'm a safe adult and not perfect, but I won't do stuff I know to be wrong to you. I know you a kid. Iknow you hurt. But its gonna be ok.
Muffled
>

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* muffled

Posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 16:44:50

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* B2chica, posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 13:55:20

you made little and big b2c cry.
big b2c wants her 'childhood' to have been 'normal', what are brothers really supposed to be like?
little b2c (me) am crying cuz i don't have that what you said. i want 'cuddles' but they usually come with something else. i don't want else. tickles scare me cuz brother tickled me to pin me down. i HATE that i can't enjoy what others seem to...see that 'mother' i HATE something...i can say that word if I WANT...HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE!!!!!

i want to go to one of my 'places' now, will you (little muffled) come with me? it has fairies there. golden green with wings of sparkly white and silver dust. the sky's crisp blue with ocean waves in my ears.


> > sad, and lonely wanting to be held. please if i'm not to sick, somebody hold me.
> > (little b2c)
> ***Ah little B2, me and my kid foughtlike crazy at first. Big B2C will come around. She's really nice, and smart too, and I dunno whether she knows it yet, but she needs you too. I don't think your sick at all. Little cutie. Stupid other people just done stupid things and sometimes thats the way it is. But its gonna get better. You and Big B2C are gonna have tons of fun. Keep reminding her you just a KID. That was the biggest stumbling block for me with my kid. Take care, I give you hugs ((((((((little B2C)))) and cuddles and tickles and we can laugh, cuz you just a kid and I'm a safe adult and not perfect, but I won't do stuff I know to be wrong to you. I know you a kid. Iknow you hurt. But its gonna be ok.
> Muffled


 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 18:39:24

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* muffled, posted by B2chica on January 28, 2006, at 16:44:50

> you made little and big b2c cry.
> big b2c wants her 'childhood' to have been 'normal', what are brothers really supposed to be like?
***Dunno, I had sisters. But my irl boy hates his sister. She annoys the crap out of him. But he doesn't hurt her.
Just says nasty things(which IS hurtful) and I tell him not to do that. Sometimes they play together just fine. Like/hate relationship I guess.
> little b2c (me) am crying cuz i don't have that what you said. i want 'cuddles' but they usually come with something else. i don't want else. tickles scare me cuz brother tickled me to pin me down. i HATE that i can't enjoy what others seem to...see that 'mother' i HATE something...i can say that word if I WANT...HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE!!!!!
***its ok to be mad little B2C. Its ok to hate bad things.
But big B2C can take care of you now. You got ripped off. But now you have a chance to come out and see the world. Give it a chance, its not so bad.
I have to admit, my kid doesn't liked to be touched either. How bout I can just say, I know you are real, I know you exist, I know you hurt, and I'm so sorry people hurt you. My kid wants to talk to you
Hey little B2, sorry you feel bad. I can play. We can goto the magic place. Fairys sounds neat,your place sounds beautiful, like I bet you are. HA! I hate/like it when people say stuff like that to me, ESPECIALLY muffled. My place is the forest. Adults are stupid. I think we know lots and they don't think we do. But muffleds ok. Shes trying, I really think she is. But she can be dumb. So can you tell me more bout your magic place?
Bye.
>
> i want to go to one of my 'places' now, will you (little muffled) come with me? it has fairies there. golden green with wings of sparkly white and silver dust. the sky's crisp blue with ocean waves in my ears.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by happyflower on January 29, 2006, at 17:52:31

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 18:39:24

B2, it is so hard to read your stuff, because it reminds me of my mother(different abuse), but the devestation and void it the same. I also had a brother who abused me (physically). Have you ever tried EMDR for this stuff? It really helped me and my tramatic memories and flashbacks I was having. (((((B2))))) I feel so incrediablly sad for you and I just want to harm everyone who did what they did to you.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*

Posted by happyflower on January 29, 2006, at 17:55:14

In reply to victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by B2chica on January 26, 2006, at 10:53:52

I also tend not to blame my brother for what he did to me, because I think of him as a victim too. But yet my T reminds me sometimes that even though I miss my brother, I can't have normal relationship with him. That he is still capable of abusing me until he gets help for himself. It is so conflicting.

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* muffled

Posted by B2chica on January 30, 2006, at 9:52:26

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 18:39:24

it has wispy trees with leaves that are gentle, crystal clear streams that babble, and flow taking us further into safety. oceans that are clear green with sand that slips in between your toes and is as soft as cotton balls.
there is no anger here, no one harms, all is innocent, no deeper meanings, no head games only honesty and peace.
the sun beats with gentle rays and there are two moons that lighten ever so slightly the darkened night sky.
there are no bad touches, only soft love and care.
there is no physical abuse as there is no violence.
there is no emotional abuse, only true cares.
there is no feeling uncomfortable or out of control, yet there is no feelings of complete control.
there is trust that we will be cared for and taken care of.
there are children everywhere with curious minds and unbiggoted thoughts.
there are imp's and fairies, elves, hobbits, and other wonderful strage creatures that help and heal.

does it sound like you want to come here little muffled?

 

Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* happyflower

Posted by B2chica on January 30, 2006, at 10:01:22

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger*, posted by happyflower on January 29, 2006, at 17:55:14

i haven't tried EMDR, but i kinda do it on my own-only i use either speed reading or music that the beat goes back and forth in either ear...that especially eases me. but i don't know that it lets it out, i think it actually keeps it in.
i'm so sorry that you have to understand. void is absolutely right.
and as terrible as it sounds, i'm glad you want to harm those that hurt me. for the first time i feel like somebody cares and doesn't blame me.

luckily my brother does live in a different town, though only an hour away, it's enough for me to be able to breathe. i do know that i wouldn't allow something like that to happen now, i feel stronger in that sense but what scares me is that his wife is pregnant and my T think it's going to be hard for me...i agree...- luckily i found out he's having a boy which REALLY relieved me. but i'm going to be on alert for ANY thing out of the ordinary...i'm experienced at being an aunt so i'll be talking to the kid as soon as i can about good touch and bad touch!!
thanks for caring
b2c.

 

Thanks B2C B2chica

Posted by muffled on January 30, 2006, at 12:35:12

In reply to Re: victim or perpetrator *trigger* muffled, posted by B2chica on January 30, 2006, at 9:52:26

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
I want to be there. I can't think of stuff like that. Mostly my safe place is I'm all alone, noone can get me then.
Your place is nice. WAY nice. I'm glad you told me. I'm gonna go there, I'm a little scared. But its sounds so good. But sometimes good is bad. But you wouldn't make anything bad would you. We can be safe together.
I don't trust muffled yet.
Your B2C seems awful nice, and smarter than muffled. But muffleds mine so thats ok.
Bye


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