Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 603404

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Re: OCD is quite a bit better

Posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 13:38:11

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Daisym, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 13:32:39

You sound like me: "I'm not strong. Stop saying I'm strong. If I was strong then I wouldn't feel this way."

sigh

OK sister-not-strong...

are you saying you might not ever be happy but you can choose to not be unhappy? Or have you put yourself in a holding pattern.

Right now I just don't want to hurt anymore. Everything else would be gravy.

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Daisym

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 13:42:49

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 13:38:11

I don't think you can choose to not be unhappy. I think you can fool yourself into thinking you're unhappy. I think you can "right think" yourself into thinking you're not unhappy. Or that you don't have a right to be unhappy so that you can't even admit it to yourself.

And how well that works probably depends a lot on certain personal characteristics of a person. The more a person is open to suggestion, the more likely they are to believe that (ok I was about to say something uncivil, so I'd better stop).

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 13:45:04

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Daisym, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 13:42:49

Oops. I meant not unhappy.

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Daisym

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 13:48:17

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Daisym on January 27, 2006, at 13:38:11

I didn't mean uncivil to you. I meant uncivil to David Burns, is it?

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah

Posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:24:28

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

oh Dinah, you sound like you're hurting pretty bad :-(.
I'm not sure what to say...you sound so fundamentally disappointed and disillusioned, and maybe incredibly alone because your therapist doesn't seem to "get it". I wish I could knock him over the head for you. Too much loss for you darlin', everywhere, inside and outside. Geez it really sucks to feel forgotten. I'd guess that he really does care about you, but he gets lost in the details of his life? but I'd guess that's really not too much solace right now :-(
When you need someone, you just need someone after all. Connections are the most important thing to us after all right? Well I care about you and I hope you find some comfort soon. Keep posting.
(((((Dinah)))))

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah

Posted by Pfinstegg on January 27, 2006, at 14:38:18

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

Are you SURE you have "lost him"? He, I think, acted pretty erratic after Katrina (it was probably much more terrifying for him financially), while you stayed pretty steady through all of the loss and pain. But now, isn't he coming back to his house and starting to restore his life to what it was previously?

Also, you know, when we have different parts, one part can get the idea of detachment and the feeling of abandonment so strongly- sometimes from tiny things therapists do, like looking down at the wrong moment. Your T. had something major done to him, and has been probably struggling to survive as a professional. He inevitably let you down, but from all that I've read here, he has always been really with you, and has cared about you a lot. You've cared about him a lot, too. Wouldn't it be good to give this a few months, at least, to see if you can regain your attachment? As his life gets better, he's going to also get much better at helping you do that- as he has been during the past ten years.

If it just can't work out it would be because he isn't giving you the right conditions, there are other therapists for you, Dinah. Reading your posts over the past three years, it sounds as though attachment is just central to you- well, it is for all of us here. I think it's the vehicle by which we able to safely explore ourselves and grow. We didn't get that as children, so we are all trying to get it now- and we each deserve to get it as fully as we can.

Keep on letting us know how it's going, will you?

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better

Posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:04:33

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on January 27, 2006, at 14:38:18

Dinah,
At the risk of sounding too pop-psych...I wonder if feeling so angry right now is a normal reaction to what you've been dealing with. If you think of stages of grieving, maybe you've moved through some of the acute coping and now are getting into the feelings that come later ..anger, etc.

I think it's absolutely normal for you to feel angry about all you've lost. I'd worry if you didn't.

And your losses are significant for you. You've lost things of meaning....yes, others have lost more material things...but meaning is unique and individual.

I wish I had some words of comfort. I'm a bit tapped out right this second. Mostly because I have to get off line now, and I have to go to the bathroom. (how's that for TMI?) :)

But I think that you are still going through a lot of crap, and it makes a ton of sense if you're not happy about it.

((((Dinah)))))


gg

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah

Posted by JenStar on January 27, 2006, at 16:08:36

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

hi Dinah,
sometimes I agree that life is all illusions. We're all just trying to keep busy to forget that we're going to die. I know that's morbid! -- but I think it's true.

On the other hand, there are so many lovely things and people in life, that the illusion can be breathtakingly beautiful and fun (if done right.)

I fluctuate between feeling a)it's all illusion, and b)maybe it's illusion, but so what, I still intend to make the most out of this trip.

I hope you can push yourself toward the b) option, Dinah. I feel like you were there before, in the past, before things got so rough. Or at least closer, right?

In a sense you DID lose everything. Your grief can be real and true even if others lost more. I don't think our grief should be compared. I mean, compared to a person who lost a family member to the holocaust, my trials are trivial. Yet to ME they're not trivial; they're my LIFE. So I don't think you should feel guilty for feeling bad...

And things WILL get better; they always do. Keep faith in that even if you don't actually "feel" the faith yet. Things WILL improve.

JenStar

 

about calling you strong... Dinah

Posted by JenStar on January 27, 2006, at 16:14:00

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

Dinah,
sometimes I tell people "you're strong" partly because I *do* think so, and partly because I want to WILL it to be so. If I'm at all worried about someone, I tell them, "You'll be OK" (hoping that my saying so will mystically set some cosmic rules into action and steer my statement into the absolute). If I'm worried that someone ISN'T going to be strong in a situation, I try to reassure them that they ARE strong, as if my vehemence alone will convince them: "Well, I thought i WASN'T strong, but hey, JenStar says I am, so what do you know -- guess I'm strong after all!"

I know that might be foolish and a verbal talisman of sorts, but when we call you strong, I think what we're saying it:

I've honestly seen examples in the past where you were very strong

I *hope* you can stay strong through this, even though you sould wobbly right now, because I so much want you to be OK

take care!
JenStar

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better sleepygirl

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:16:52

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah, posted by sleepygirl on January 27, 2006, at 14:24:28

Thanks sleepygirl. I told him last session that I felt like slugging him. :)

I wonder if the rest of his clients feel this way.

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Pfinstegg

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:19:20

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on January 27, 2006, at 14:38:18

I am not planning to leave him. Pathetic aren't I.

Yeah, he says he's planning on moving back to the city, not to the same house. But that he's not in a hurry to do it. And since the whole thing is riding on the fact that his daughter wants to come back, I'm not going to be sure until he's actually here. One handsome young man in their new area, and she could easily change her mind.

I'll give it time because I haven't any choice. But it hurts.

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:22:54

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better, posted by gardenergirl on January 27, 2006, at 16:04:33

I was wondering about that myself. Or if the Risperdal was masking the anger.

I bit myself today. I didn't break the skin, but it did leave some marks. Hopefully not enough for my son to see. Surprised the heck out of me. I was stuck in one of the interminable lines that we have for everything, and just bit myself in frustration as my hand passed by my face.

I don't particularly like the anger phase. I hope it passes.

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better JenStar

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:27:32

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah, posted by JenStar on January 27, 2006, at 16:08:36

I really don't think it will ever get better. Maybe I rely too much on others. But I can't see things ever getting better enough.

 

Trigger? 2nd to last post. (nm)

Posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:33:46

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:22:54

 

(((((Dinah)))

Posted by happyflower on January 27, 2006, at 19:14:41

In reply to Trigger? 2nd to last post. (nm), posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 18:33:46

(((((Dinah)))))

I think if you are angry, you are angry, that is good, better than feeling numb. Get angry, throw stuff, stomp your feet, you were dealt a bad card in the deck of life. It is okay to feel like you do temporary.
I think in order to feel love and happiness, you have to feel what pain and sadness is like. Things will only get better for you, I know that isn't saying a whole lot, but I have a feeling some sunshine will be just around the corner for you.
I get what you say about losing your therapist, even though you still see him weekly.
I don't know if this will help at all, because your T needs to be your T, but they dang, it , are human. After just experiencing my T 's stressful situation and the effect it had on my therapy and my relationship with him. I can't imagine what effect Katrina had on your T . He is struggling like everyone else. But he is still trying, he cares about you, he might be absent minded some, but I think it will work out for the two of you. We care about you here, Dinah, we really do. ((((((Dinah)))) Take care.

 

Life is Illusions Dinah

Posted by Poet on January 28, 2006, at 12:06:09

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

and may I add delusions? Not of the psychotic variety, but of the *if I had this* I'd be happy variety. We all know mine is that damn perfect job.

I'm sending your T a cyber slap on the head which better help him remember that you are far more than just client 934. You've existed in his professional life for 10 years- you have a relationship with him that you have gone out of your way to continue. You deserve to be remembered. I just sent a harder cyber slap.

I'd be angry if I were you, too. You are depressed and really need your T to help you get through this. Keep posting to us. Vent. Whine. Cry. Let those emotions out anyway you can.

Cyber hugs, not slaps for you. (((((((((Dinah))))))))

Poet

 

((((((((((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))))))))) :-( (nm)

Posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 13:17:45

In reply to Life is Illusions Dinah, posted by Poet on January 28, 2006, at 12:06:09

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah

Posted by fallsfall on January 28, 2006, at 17:42:43

In reply to OCD is quite a bit better, posted by Dinah on January 27, 2006, at 10:50:01

I wish I knew what to say...

Your anger at your therapist is reasonable. But I don't think that he doesn't care. You know how we say that the feelings are, but you have control over your actions? Maybe I see him doing this sort of backwards. I think he does care about you, but his actions are out of (his) control.

Regardless of the reason, though, this is hurtful to you.


(((Dinah)))

Please watch your med changes carefully... They really can make things very different for you.

 

Re: (((((Dinah))) happyflower

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 9:57:50

In reply to (((((Dinah))), posted by happyflower on January 27, 2006, at 19:14:41

I know he's human, and I try to make allowances for that. I really do. I even find myself trying not to bother him.

I don't know. Maybe last week, even though I cried most of the session, maybe I picked up that he wasn't really totally there because he was too sleepy. He apologized for not being his best at the end of the session, and I mumbled something about it being ok, and he answered that it wasn't ok. But that it just was. Then he shrugged.

So maybe I missed on the surface level something that I picked up below the surface.

 

Re: Life is Illusions Poet

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 10:03:45

In reply to Life is Illusions Dinah, posted by Poet on January 28, 2006, at 12:06:09

If I make it through the next few months at work, and we find out what's going to happen to my husband's job and if we move (and a new wrinkle, they've been laying people off). And if I can come to terms with whatever happens. Maybe then I'll be ok.

I kept an editorial by Anne Applebaum in our papar the other day. She's talking about how everyone realizes that difficult changes have to be made, but when it comes to *their* neighborhood and *their* house, no one wants those choices to made. And her last sentence says theat we really have to grasp that the future will be different than the past, or we can't move forward.

I recognize wisdom in that, in my therapy, and in my life. But then I curled up on my bed and cried again.

 

Thank you (nm) muffled

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 10:04:10

In reply to ((((((((((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))))))))) :-( (nm), posted by muffled on January 28, 2006, at 13:17:45

 

Re: OCD is quite a bit better fallsfall

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 10:15:57

In reply to Re: OCD is quite a bit better Dinah, posted by fallsfall on January 28, 2006, at 17:42:43

His care has limits. And I'm trying to struggle to accept that, because of course it isn't true in the opposite direction. It's that d*mn imbalance of caring again. He's everything to me (or at least part of me). I'm someone he can cross off his calendar to schedule an emergency dental appointment and not think to call to tell me. I'm an appointment. I'm work.

And he's not as emotionally involved and doesn't feel as responsible for his work and the people who rely on him as I do about my work and the people who rely on me. I tried to reach as many people as I could in the first few days after the hurricane. He tried to reach his clients in November or December. (Except the two who contacted him.) Which when you think about what our respective "work" entails is really pretty revolting.

And however he might care about me in that way he cares about clients, it's still wildly out of balance to how I care about him.

That hurts and it's always going to hurt. When I'm old and grey that's going to hurt. Even if I quit seeing him for whatever reason, that's going to still hurt a lot.

I'm watching the medication changes. I was going on the assumption that the OCD was worsened by the disconnection caused by the Risperdal, and I was right. So I traded depression for anxiety, and I'm ok with that decision right now. I'm not sure if I'm more productive, since I spend hours and hours curled up in bed crying, and my son and husband keep asking me what's wrong. But my body was tired from all that adrenaline.

 

Hmmm

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 11:49:00

In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))) happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 9:57:50

Maybe I should start bringing blank checks with me. And the next time he says something like that, I'll ask what portion of ok he was, so that I can pay him that portion of his fee. Maybe he won't shrug then.

 

Re: (((((Dinah))) Dinah

Posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2006, at 15:14:08

In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))) happyflower, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 9:57:50

> I know he's human, and I try to make allowances for that. I really do. I even find myself trying not to bother him.

That's really interesting, in and of itself. It sort of sounds like it could be some kind of parental transference...if it were me, anyway. Something along the lines that children should be seen but not heard? I know my dad seemed to feel that way.
>
> I don't know. Maybe last week, even though I cried most of the session, maybe I picked up that he wasn't really totally there because he was too sleepy. He apologized for not being his best at the end of the session, and I mumbled something about it being ok, and he answered that it wasn't ok. But that it just was. Then he shrugged.

I realize it was the end of the session, and I applaud him for saying it's not okay. But the shrug?...I think this deserved more time and talking than you had time for. Saying it just was is a sort of reality thing. But it also has an impact on your feelings and the relationship.

When you two were fighting to relationship, it seems as if you both were. Are you both now?
>

gg

 

Re: (((((Dinah))) gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2006, at 16:33:41

In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))) Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2006, at 15:14:08

> > I know he's human, and I try to make allowances for that. I really do. I even find myself trying not to bother him.
>
> That's really interesting, in and of itself. It sort of sounds like it could be some kind of parental transference...if it were me, anyway. Something along the lines that children should be seen but not heard? I know my dad seemed to feel that way.

I didn't bother my parents because I was terrified of their rages. But I don't ever recall feeling the need or desire to protect them. I think it just comes from caring about someone, and not wanting to be an additional burden to them when they're already burdened.

> >
> > I don't know. Maybe last week, even though I cried most of the session, maybe I picked up that he wasn't really totally there because he was too sleepy. He apologized for not being his best at the end of the session, and I mumbled something about it being ok, and he answered that it wasn't ok. But that it just was. Then he shrugged.
>
> I realize it was the end of the session, and I applaud him for saying it's not okay. But the shrug?...I think this deserved more time and talking than you had time for. Saying it just was is a sort of reality thing. But it also has an impact on your feelings and the relationship.

Yeah. I think that was it. I didn't admit to myself how much it bothered me because I was too busy laughing at his radical acceptance of his failings. But underneath that I think his apparent dismissal of how it affected me did sting.

>
> When you two were fighting to relationship, it seems as if you both were. Are you both now?
> >
>
> gg
>

I'm not even sure I am. Most of the time I think I'm better off not fighting to relationship with him. That I've been a d*mned fool for trying soooo hard to maintain a relationship that was fundamentally one sided in reality and only two sided in illusion.


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