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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
But I really thought the more I talk to my T about my feelings for him (regardless of whether they are positive or negative), they would lessen over time. So, I swear almost every week, I talk to him about my attachment. Not even just basic stuff either. I go into a lot of detail about the pain I feel because I miss him. I tell him about my longings, wishes, dreams...whatever I feel or think about him. Months - maybe even longer - of this and it only seems to be intensifying (he knows that, too). I don’t know how much more I can handle. It hurts too much. But what a catch-22 it is, you know? I’m so attached I can hardly leave him, now.
How and when will it get any easier? Even just a little bit would be helpful.
Posted by sleepygirl on December 27, 2005, at 14:35:25
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
Uh...yeah, it is really hard. I don't think I have any answers for you, but some questions come to mind based on my experiences. They are just thoughts. They may or may not relate to you, but here goes....
Are you able to relate it to experiences in your life with people important to you?
When I've been able to relate my strong attachment to these experiences of disappointment or abandonment it's given me some relief, or made the feelings easier to tolerate.Do you have other important relationships in your life?
When I've been able to invest my energy in relationships with different people, I know that other important people continue to exist for me.
What's important to you in your life? What are you passionate about?
This gave me another focus, something else I needed.
I absolutely cannot say that I would be comfortable giving up my relationship with my T, but over time it has gotten less intense. I guess it has waxed and waned over time, and depending on the stress levels I've been able to handle. My T has been one constant, and I guess it's been some serious practice, leaving, dealing with the world, coming back, and knowing
he's still there.
I do really feel for you. It is difficult. I hope you talk to him about this.
Posted by daisym on December 27, 2005, at 16:50:05
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
I wish I knew the answer. I've been working on this forever it feels like. A couple of things helped me...check in phone calls, journaling and having something of his to hold. I don't call much anymore but knowing I still can is really helpful. I write a lot when I'm feeling sad and lonely, trying to sort out why. And I pull away, and then freak out because it feels worse without the attachment.
How much have you read about Self-psychology? When I started to understand that I needed my therapist for stability as I let go of old constructs and started building new ones, the intensity of my attachment actually made more sense to me. After all, I am trying to redefine myself and strengthen my core -- my heart of hearts. When he isn't around for a period of time, I begin to doubt this new structure and I fight against all the parts of me that are alive and speaking out. Mostly I'm afraid of feeling my feelings when I'm not with him to make it safe.
I don't know if any of this rings true for you...but there is a good reason your attachment is so intense. You just don't know what it is yet. What is your therapist saying about it all? Does he have any thoughts about how you could reduce your suffering between sessions?
I wish I could find just the right thing to say. I know it hurts.
(((alldone)))
Posted by sleepygirl on December 27, 2005, at 16:53:44
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » All Done, posted by daisym on December 27, 2005, at 16:50:05
can you recommend any self psychology books?
thanks :-)
Posted by LadyBug on December 27, 2005, at 17:57:21
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
I've been where you're at for several years! It's just been this last few months that my feelings for my therapist haven't been painful to feel. I'm doing better. We've tried a lot of different stuff. The end of Sept. this year, I was faced with some major marital and financial problems. I needed my therapist more than ever to help me through this time. When I saw her 2 times a week, she'd say, I want you to check in with me on Fri.'s so I know how your doing. We started doing this and have continued doing it. You know what????? It's been the best thing we've ever done!!! (Well one of them.) I leave her a voice mail at my convience and she returns a voice mail to me when it's convienent for her. I have a voice mail or two to listen to when I need to hear her voice and what she has to say. I told her a month or so ago how my feelings for her are finally feeling ok. They don't hurt anymore! Often the feelings of love I have for her seem to hurt. So I guess there are lots of things to try, but this is the one that has helped me the most.
I have taken pictures of her a few times. I print one, just on plain white paper, and keep it folded in my pocket while I'm at work. Another thing I did about a month ago was take her a "special" pen to write with only when she is with me. This is a favorite pen of mine and I love writing with it. She puts it in her drawer till she see's me again.
She's written notes to me and mailed them everyweek for over a year. (That was a long time ago.) It really helped me learn that I could count on her, or count on her doing something for me. She could be reliable and I knew it without a doubt. That was a strength to me and I needed it as my mother was never reliable for me as a kid.
I wish you good work and try different ideas even though sometimes they might feel funny.
Good Luck figuring it out.
LadyBug
Posted by rs on December 27, 2005, at 20:13:19
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
Hi.
Do not post often so please I apologize for jumping in here.
This subject on attachment is really hitting here today. I have it bad. Real bad.
Today has session and just was so awful. Saw cards from other clients on T shelf. UGh. Got an attitude. Just cannot do this T realionship anymore at all.
What is sad is I know that T cares much. But getting worse and worse. It hurts to go there. Have been through so much abuse causing DID which small parts are like hurting for T caring.
He sees about 9 clients a day and I hate it. I walked out of session tonight because was hurt when he used words that was comparing things with other clients. That hurts and could just feel the jealousy inside.
Anyway thanks much for sharing because it helps me not feel so alone and crazy.
Again sorry for jumping in here.
Thanks for being honest.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 28, 2005, at 4:29:08
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
It sounds pretty intense and a lot of work. I'm glad you're talking about it, though. I know it was on your mind. And it sounds like he's handling it well, which is also good.
I think it was sleepygirl who asked if you could relate those intense feelings to something else in your life related to attachment and/or abandonment. That sounds like a good area to explore.
And it will get easier. It just takes as much time as it takes. Sorry. :( I know its painful.
(((((Laurie))))))
gg
Posted by All Done on December 29, 2005, at 1:42:52
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by sleepygirl on December 27, 2005, at 14:35:25
> Uh...yeah, it is really hard. I don't think I have any answers for you, but some questions come to mind based on my experiences. They are just thoughts. They may or may not relate to you, but here goes....
>
> Are you able to relate it to experiences in your life with people important to you?
>
> When I've been able to relate my strong attachment to these experiences of disappointment or abandonment it's given me some relief, or made the feelings easier to tolerate.I really have a difficult time with this. Rationally, I know my feelings toward my T actually have very little to do with him, but I get stuck in the here and now and I can't seem to figure out what it's really about.
> Do you have other important relationships in your life?
>
> When I've been able to invest my energy in relationships with different people, I know that other important people continue to exist for me.I do have other important relationships - my son, my husband, some close friends and family. I feel guilty about not having focused my attention on them, but at the moment, it seems near impossible. Well, maybe except with my son. He gets all of me more often than not.
> What's important to you in your life? What are you passionate about?
>
> This gave me another focus, something else I needed.I can get passionate about some things, but, unfortunately, I work full-time in a career that I'm not passionate about. So, for at least eight hours a day, it's pretty easy to distract me. I guess I wish I could just focus on something else, but when I try and don't succeed, I feel guilty. (Sorry, I think I sound so stubborn.)
> I absolutely cannot say that I would be comfortable giving up my relationship with my T, but over time it has gotten less intense. I guess it has waxed and waned over time, and depending on the stress levels I've been able to handle. My T has been one constant, and I guess it's been some serious practice, leaving, dealing with the world, coming back, and knowing he's still there.I'm truly glad to hear it's grown less intense for you. It gives me some hope.
> I do really feel for you. It is difficult. I hope you talk to him about this.Thanks for your post, sleepygirl. You've given me a lot to think about. One thing I can promise, though...I will talk to him about this. I feel fairly certain if I didn't, I would only feel worse.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on December 29, 2005, at 1:57:46
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » All Done, posted by daisym on December 27, 2005, at 16:50:05
> I wish I knew the answer. I've been working on this forever it feels like. A couple of things helped me...check in phone calls, journaling and having something of his to hold. I don't call much anymore but knowing I still can is really helpful. I write a lot when I'm feeling sad and lonely, trying to sort out why. And I pull away, and then freak out because it feels worse without the attachment.
Fairly recently, the topic of phone calls between sessions came up. Unfortunately, I found out we weren't on the same page about the reasons *why* I might call him. He did end up reassuring me that I can call, if I need to, but it's made me even more nervous about calling than I was before. :(
We also talked a while back about me wanting something tangible from his office. It didn't go much beyond the concept, though. Maybe??? I could bring up the topic again.
> How much have you read about Self-psychology? When I started to understand that I needed my therapist for stability as I let go of old constructs and started building new ones, the intensity of my attachment actually made more sense to me. After all, I am trying to redefine myself and strengthen my core -- my heart of hearts. When he isn't around for a period of time, I begin to doubt this new structure and I fight against all the parts of me that are alive and speaking out. Mostly I'm afraid of feeling my feelings when I'm not with him to make it safe.
>
> I don't know if any of this rings true for you...but there is a good reason your attachment is so intense. You just don't know what it is yet. What is your therapist saying about it all? Does he have any thoughts about how you could reduce your suffering between sessions?This makes sense to me and it has felt pretty scary when I'm not with him. I don't know what I think it going to happen, but I feel a million times safer when I'm with him.
I'm having a hard time remember what my T has been saying about anything, lately, but I don't know that he's really offered any specific ideas other than increasing the frequency of my sessions. I'll have to ask him next time if he has any other ideas.
> I wish I could find just the right thing to say. I know it hurts.
> (((alldone)))Thank you, Daisy. You say all the right things. I'm just sorry you know about the hurt, too.
Hugs,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on December 29, 2005, at 2:06:45
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by LadyBug on December 27, 2005, at 17:57:21
> I've been where you're at for several years! It's just been this last few months that my feelings for my therapist haven't been painful to feel. I'm doing better. We've tried a lot of different stuff. The end of Sept. this year, I was faced with some major marital and financial problems. I needed my therapist more than ever to help me through this time. When I saw her 2 times a week, she'd say, I want you to check in with me on Fri.'s so I know how your doing. We started doing this and have continued doing it. You know what????? It's been the best thing we've ever done!!! (Well one of them.) I leave her a voice mail at my convience and she returns a voice mail to me when it's convienent for her. I have a voice mail or two to listen to when I need to hear her voice and what she has to say. I told her a month or so ago how my feelings for her are finally feeling ok. They don't hurt anymore! Often the feelings of love I have for her seem to hurt. So I guess there are lots of things to try, but this is the one that has helped me the most.
> I have taken pictures of her a few times. I print one, just on plain white paper, and keep it folded in my pocket while I'm at work. Another thing I did about a month ago was take her a "special" pen to write with only when she is with me. This is a favorite pen of mine and I love writing with it. She puts it in her drawer till she see's me again.
> She's written notes to me and mailed them everyweek for over a year. (That was a long time ago.) It really helped me learn that I could count on her, or count on her doing something for me. She could be reliable and I knew it without a doubt. That was a strength to me and I needed it as my mother was never reliable for me as a kid.
> I wish you good work and try different ideas even though sometimes they might feel funny.
> Good Luck figuring it out.
> LadyBugThat's all pretty amazing, LadyBug. Seems you have a pretty great T. If I had to guess, my T would work with me on this. I just have to ask and that's, obviously, the hard part. I'm so afraid that I'd ask for or suggest something and he'd say no. I feel like such a hypocrite because I'd tell anyone else on the boards that they should talk to their T and ask for what they want. :(
Like I told Daisy, I am going to ask him if he has any ideas for the time between sessions. We'll see where that discussion goes. Maybe I'll get brave.
You and your T came up with some great ideas. Thanks for sharing and for understanding.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on December 29, 2005, at 2:20:45
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » All Done, posted by rs on December 27, 2005, at 20:13:19
> Hi.
Hi, rs.
> Do not post often so please I apologize for jumping in here.No apologies necessary at all.
> This subject on attachment is really hitting here today. I have it bad. Real bad.(((((rs)))))
> Today has session and just was so awful. Saw cards from other clients on T shelf. UGh. Got an attitude. Just cannot do this T realionship anymore at all.
>
> What is sad is I know that T cares much. But getting worse and worse. It hurts to go there. Have been through so much abuse causing DID which small parts are like hurting for T caring.It's so hard to understand why it hurts us to be cared for. It seems like a lot of us know our Ts care, but it's so hard to accept that care. :(
> He sees about 9 clients a day and I hate it. I walked out of session tonight because was hurt when he used words that was comparing things with other clients. That hurts and could just feel the jealousy inside.I told my T that I believe he lives in his office and just waits for my session. The guy sitting in the waiting room after me must just be a delivery guy. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)
Seriously, though, I'm sorry it hurts so much. And I'm really sorry that your T said things that made you feel like he was comparing you to other clients. We all want to feel special to our Ts and it's hard to do that when we think about their other clients.
> Anyway thanks much for sharing because it helps me not feel so alone and crazy.I know what you mean about not feeling so alone and crazy. It's why I posted. I know there are other posters who understand. I'm so grateful for this place.
> Again sorry for jumping in here.Again, don't be sorry. :)
> Thanks for being honest.You, too, rs. I wish I could erase all your pain.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by All Done on December 29, 2005, at 2:28:57
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » All Done, posted by gardenergirl on December 28, 2005, at 4:29:08
> It sounds pretty intense and a lot of work. I'm glad you're talking about it, though. I know it was on your mind. And it sounds like he's handling it well, which is also good.
It's mentally and emotionally exhausting. I don't know how long I can keep it up. :( But I am fairly certain I won't quit. And I've told him so much up to this point, there would be no sense in starting to hold back, either.
I think he is handling it pretty well. Occassionally, I feel like I've surprised him in some way, but I'm not sure if it's something he hasn't experienced with another client or if it's something he didn't expect to hear from me.
> I think it was sleepygirl who asked if you could relate those intense feelings to something else in your life related to attachment and/or abandonment. That sounds like a good area to explore.I think I'm going to have to ask him for some help in making some connections to get me started. I really feel lost as to what this is all about.
> And it will get easier. It just takes as much time as it takes. Sorry. :( I know its painful.
>
> (((((Laurie))))))
>
> ggThanks for the hugs and support, gg. Sorry I haven't been around so much. :(
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2005, at 23:34:09
In reply to I really do know nothing is magic or easy., posted by All Done on December 27, 2005, at 14:07:45
It does get easier. With time and attention. I don't think that level of emotion can sustain itself forever.
I think it can be helped along if you can either learn the dynamics within you that contributes to the feelings (or possibly what in your life is missing and being filled by the therapy relationship) or learn enough about the therapist that the magic is gone.
I've done both to some extent, and I think the former is probably more helpful. :)
Posted by All Done on December 30, 2005, at 14:59:27
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » All Done, posted by Dinah on December 29, 2005, at 23:34:09
> It does get easier. With time and attention. I don't think that level of emotion can sustain itself forever.
I hope you're right, Dinah. I know I've gone through periods where it wasn't this bad. But it's been a while now, and this is the worst it has been.
> I think it can be helped along if you can either learn the dynamics within you that contributes to the feelings (or possibly what in your life is missing and being filled by the therapy relationship) or learn enough about the therapist that the magic is gone.
>
> I've done both to some extent, and I think the former is probably more helpful. :)I know what you're saying and I'm going to try to work hard to understand what's behind all this. Maybe if my T can just give me a hint ;).
When you mention learning enough about the therapist so the magic is gone, are you talking about an idealization of the therapist? This feels kind of different from that. I feel like, in *some* ways, I've moved beyond my idealization of him. I see him as "just a human" more often than not. If learning more about him is going to get rid of this particular kind of "magic", I'm not so sure I want to because (and what I haven't expressed in my earlier posts in this thread) there is a part of me that feels good about this. You know how when there is such an intense reaction (in this case, of sadness or pain), the flip side can be pretty good and there are brief moments (very brief, at this point) where it actually feels good to be so attached. Maybe like with my son. I love him so much, it just hurts, sometimes. Am I making any sense?
Thanks, Dinah. I hope you're doing okay? Are you? How are things going?
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on December 30, 2005, at 15:42:25
In reply to Re: I really do know nothing is magic or easy. » Dinah, posted by All Done on December 30, 2005, at 14:59:27
Yeah, I do know what you mean. If I could go back to pre-K I would. No doubt at all. And it's not that I idealized my therapist then either, I knew he had a lot of flaws. But he was still my *therapist*. Losing that feeling helps the intensity, but it also makes the world a rather lonely place.
If I were you, knowing what I know now, I'd cherish the pain as well as the pleasure. It may sound sort of weird, but I envy you that pain.
This is the end of the thread.
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