Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 592087

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 54. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Help me please, re: ex-T

Posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

Things have become really bad. The anatomy of my relationship with the ex-therapist is written all over these boards for the last couple of years, I think. But the fact is I left some stuff out. Like, stuff that's embarrassing, and weak to admit to. But the fact is that I never let him alone, on the phone, all this time, I was calling his ans. machine and wanting to talk to him but not able to.
I haven't been honest. I didn't know what the problem WAS, for so long. Then he threatened to go to the police, and things became crystal-clear; out of necessity? I don't know. He said a third party would be listening to all my calls and if necessary they would contact the police. Which is okay, because if he felt that way he should have said it a year ago but he probably knew even then that he could crush me with that, so he didn't. He held off.
But he needs to apologize to me.
And I don't know how to make that happen, and he can't apologize to me if he isn't sincere, and he wouldn't even be sincere if he didn't honestly believe he did this thing, and unfortunately, I don't have a camera in back of my eyes so I couldn't take pictures or a film of him doing this, so it's so easy for him to turn a blind eye and say, no I didn't do this thing, it's your imagination and your problem that makes you think I did this .. on top of which, you can't prove anything.
Nothing.
I can prove nothing.

 

So, if anyone's listening and you have opinions

Posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:17:52

In reply to Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

or ideas or thoughts, I'd appreciate some. Because this is ridiculous.
It never should've gotten to this. Never. He was never listening properly, not with his whole mind, not with all his awareness, he didn't know what he was doing, or maybe he did and I was just used for amusement. But I don't like to think so, I don't like to think that he was just sitting back shaking his head going, oh my, she's got problems doesn't she? But she has to stop bugging me, I haven't done anything wrong.. I don't know, I just had this image of him being good, a Good person, you know? Someone who'd never use people, someone who wouldn't let his own protective barrier interfere with other's growth, someone who was a lot more of an altruist than he is, or maybe even than I am. Maybe if I were in his shoes, I'd be acting the same way, which is kind of horrifying. But I understand that's the way human nature is, in any case. Especially in our litigious society. Oh yes, I keep forgetting how sick our society is now, and how dishonest people are allowed to be.
I get so angry, when I think he just isn't the person I wanted him to be. He hurt me and he knows it beyond a doubt, and he's now quite happy to continue to let me bleed, so to speak. As long as he's protected, and his little business and his little life ad nauseum, I'm sure .. we think we don't have a caste system in Canada, or the US, but we do, and it isn't until you've been swallowed by it yourself, that you realize how bad it is. Only in our society, it's mostly money, not birth or position, that determines our castes. And I'm in a lower caste than my ex-therapist, you see, because I have less education, less earning power, less money, less prestige, less of everything except probably children ... so it's easy for him to play this game and wave his hand and pretend none of it ever existed for him.
This is what hate could be made of, but I've tried really hard not to do that.
Maybe I've just tried too hard to be good, to live up to some standard of my own that's un-livable. Because I'm human too, and if I keep thinking about this and his unbearably cold, cruel and hurtful behaviour, I would hate him.
I remember though, the way he looked at me and he didn't seem like a person with no humility. But the way someone looks at you can be very very different from the way they treat you IRL.
In the words of Ally's very vulnerable therapist, he ran fast and far. But he waited too long, and too much water had passed under the bridge, and this therapist probably thought he was standing on the riverbank being an observer, not a participant. And he was a participant. And he should have known that, if he were self-aware and honest, he WOULD know that.
How can therapists get away with this stuff, and how many of these are out there? And the more I say stuff like that, the more it makes them all want to duck. Which is ridiculous. Because this stuff NEEDS TO BE TALKED ABOUT.

 

Wouldn't be surprised

Posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:43:21

In reply to Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

if this thread was extinguished, wiped out of existence, and everything I've ever posted either, because this is trouble, with a capital T, this is either destructive or self-destructive and I'm not sure which or why I think that ... but I don't trust anybody. And if I could live my life over again, I would guard my heart much more carefully, and my mind as well. Heart and mind would have belonged more to myself and much less to others, and consequently, I would have been lovelier, and stronger, and gentler and kinder than I have been, until now.. somehow, now. The future is the present, did you know that? Every present moment is what builds the future .. it's what's so beautiful about life, and awesome and frightening, too, because there's so much responsibility in every moment that were you take yourself too seriously, a girl could snap. Absolutely. She could snap, and it takes time to bring back what might've been, to bring back and reclaim what was lost so terribly young.

 

Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Susan47

Posted by Dinah on December 25, 2005, at 15:47:05

In reply to Wouldn't be surprised, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:43:21

Susan, I'd like to say something helpful, but I'm not feeling great today and I just don't quite understand.

Your ex-therapist got a restraining order against you? Is that what you want him to apologize to you for? Or something else?

I'm sorry to be so dense.

 

Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Dinah

Posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:56:34

In reply to Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Susan47, posted by Dinah on December 25, 2005, at 15:47:05

It's okay, Dinah, I'm sorry you're not feeling so great. What's the matter? What time is it there, around four-ish? You've had such a hellish life this last year, I wish I could do something to make it better for you.
Where are you having Christmas?
It's okay, we can talk about this when you're feeling better. My ex-T just threatened to go to the police if I kept calling his machine and leaving messages. And that made the issue that was making me call come forward in a hurry, it took me by surprise, but not really because in my heart I always knew I wasn't admitting the issue, which had to do with my sex and sexuality and all of that, and something happened in my sessions with him at the very beginning and he knows it or maybe he doesn't or won't admit it to himself or me or anybody else, but it completely fractured things because I'd already built a trust, albeit a very unwilling one. The whole thing was very psycho, and I believe I went through some personality changes and Dinah, I've been nuts for a long time now, but on the other hand right now I feel saner than ever, so maybe it was worth it?
I don't know.
I just don't know what to do, to make this a good thing, to make this all go away, and to still be me, which would be open and loving and kind and smart, and almost most of all, trusting. But if you have your own troubles which make you unable to understand right now, that's totally okay. Because you, Dinah, have been to hell and are coming back, yourself. :) (((Dinah)))

 

Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Susan47

Posted by Dinah on December 25, 2005, at 16:05:30

In reply to Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Dinah, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:56:34

I'm just feeling a bit off physically. Have been for a few days. Nothing serious, just headachy and queasy.

So he did something inappropriate in your early sessions? And you're afraid that a reporting authority won't believe you? I'm not sure what the reporting deadlines are for inappropriate conduct on the part of a therapist.

 

Hi, this is muffled, » Susan47

Posted by muffled on December 25, 2005, at 16:45:49

In reply to Wouldn't be surprised, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:43:21

dunno whether you like hugs or not so take it or leave it.
I'm sorry things have been hard for you. You seem very nice.
(((((((((((((((((Susan47)))))))))))))))))
Muffled.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47

Posted by LadyBug on December 25, 2005, at 17:31:36

In reply to Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

Susan,
I'm so sorry things have gone so far. I don't know all of your story, but I'm sure you are feeling very hurt and confused. I wish you could get it figured out and feel better. Sounds like it's going to be a hard thing to get through. I'm sorry, I wish you comfort and strength to get through this. Post often as I'm sure we can help you get through it.....
LadyBug

 

Re: So, if anyone's listening - caste system » Susan47

Posted by James K on December 25, 2005, at 18:15:45

In reply to So, if anyone's listening and you have opinions, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 15:17:52

I'm sorry I don't know the specifics of your ongoing situation, but I know you are frustrated and hurt. I'm new here and looked back a little but didn't find the old thread.
I just wanted to address the caste system aspect. You are right it does exist. I've spent much of my life beating my head against the wall; literally and figuratively; in fury about how i felt affected by this. The fact that you can write so clearly and eloquently in the midst of turmoil shows that you needn't feel lesser in any way to those others, regardless of how they feel about you. We can fight it, we can accept it , but I hope we never have to buy into it.
So please hang in there and hold your head high. by the way, I'm not saying you actually feel inferior, just don't let the Man get you down.

from James, spending another Christmas alone on purpose.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47

Posted by orchid on December 26, 2005, at 0:17:57

In reply to Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

I do sympathize with you. A lot. I do understand how difficult it has become for you.

But you have to stop calling his phone. Whatever he did or did not do, if he hurt you or not or even if he acted inappropriately in your session, it is not ok to call a person repeatedly - and I think you said you called pretty much everyday. I can understand the pain that makes you do it, and I really feel very sorry that he couldn't really help you through your feelings. But please don't call him anymore. It will only end up becoming uglier than it already is. And you won't gain anything out of it - no respect, no love, no affection. You will only end up embarrasing yourself further.

I do have a suggestion. You can probably date other men and it might take your T off your mind. I think you could perhaps date as many men as possible, and try to put yourself into the relationship when you are dating. And that might help get rid of your T from your mind. Or if you can attend a church or a religious group it might also help.

((susan))

 

Re: Wouldn't be surprised

Posted by Susan47 on December 26, 2005, at 23:20:04

In reply to Re: Wouldn't be surprised » Susan47, posted by Dinah on December 25, 2005, at 16:05:30

Dinah, the problem is that he did something that can't be proven. It's a matter of the way someone behaves, possibly without their conscious awareness. I've posted before what he did, I've posted it all here, in bits and pieces, it's all here on this website, on different boards. It's a complete story and unfortunately, I didn't know I was ever heading in this direction and I still don't really want to go there, I don't like the way things are going, and I want to RUN away from it and sometimes I even think I'm getting a bit paranoid about it, because I've spent such a long time denying this happened.
And I loved him, I mean I had these therapist/client feelings that were so fr*gging tied up with this behaviour that occurred, in addition to the way I behaved as a consequence of it all, that I could be labelled a psycho. A real psycho. And there've been a lot of times I've posted when I've been in real emotional distress, and I know I didn't sound sane or rational, although there were always very good reasons for everything that was said .. and done... this is not going well. I feel really sad about all of this, this never needed to happen and it might still not have to happen and I all I can do now is wonder what type of man my T was.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » orchid

Posted by Susan47 on December 26, 2005, at 23:31:58

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47, posted by orchid on December 26, 2005, at 0:17:57

Well see the thing is, that I'm not really embarrassed. You said I would only end up embarrassing myself further, but I don't really feel embarrassed.
I dont' know why.. I feel justified. I feel like now that he's said he has a third party screening the calls, finally, at least they HAVE to be listened to now, and he HAS to finally HEAR what is being said, not just the fact that the calls are being made.
I never thought a person could or would purposely be so ignorant, as this person .. I need to learn to let go, and stop trying to make someone good and honorable who could care two sh*ts about those things .. I'm very angry, Orchid, I'm very angry with him.. still.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47

Posted by orchid on December 27, 2005, at 5:03:24

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » orchid, posted by Susan47 on December 26, 2005, at 23:31:58

I can understand the anger. But why would you want yourself in the possible custody of a police?

Even if the 3 rd party hears, I think there are very high chances for them to tilt in favor of your Ex T. Because usually people tend to favor people who are in respected positions like Ts/psychiatrists etc. And if he has tapes of you calling him when you were in a not so sane mood, then most likely they will judge in his favor. True, he might have to hear what you are saying, but I am positive he already has heard, already understands your pain, already knows what he did is wrong, but yet won't take actions to correct it. He probably did behave somewhat of a jerk with you, and he probably will continue to be so. All otherwise good men are capable of being complete *ssholes when needed for them and when they see fit. Maybe your T is showing that part of his to you.

And when a 3 rd party listens to the calls, unless proved of some offensive behavior on your Ts part like actually maybe having sex with you or soemthing like that, your T will pass through the judgement just fine. He has done what seems to be right under the current model of therapy which is advocated. HE didn't do anything wrong according to ethical board. He was perhaps incompetent, but there usually is not punishment for incompetency. Sad, but true.

I hope you can convince yourself that your Ex T perhaps is a jerk, and that you deserve something better for yourself.


> Well see the thing is, that I'm not really embarrassed. You said I would only end up embarrassing myself further, but I don't really feel embarrassed.
> I dont' know why.. I feel justified. I feel like now that he's said he has a third party screening the calls, finally, at least they HAVE to be listened to now, and he HAS to finally HEAR what is being said, not just the fact that the calls are being made.
> I never thought a person could or would purposely be so ignorant, as this person .. I need to learn to let go, and stop trying to make someone good and honorable who could care two sh*ts about those things .. I'm very angry, Orchid, I'm very angry with him.. still.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » orchid

Posted by Susan47 on December 27, 2005, at 14:42:39

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47, posted by orchid on December 27, 2005, at 5:03:24

Yes, all good points and I am getting there. Like I've said over and over and over again, to myself and to his effing machine because he turned a blind eye and ear to me, over and over again he showed me his blindness and his complete bourgeouis self-image, which was really disgusting but then I felt this LOVE for him, outside of his own self-image I felt something else, and it was so confusing and that *sshole did zip zero and zilch to help me out, in fact he completely rejected me as a patient, after months and months of letting his answering machine take my calls, and picking and choosing when or if he ever was going to return any of them.
Pavlov's dog all over again. I was manipulated and even he probably didn't even know it, he's manipulating me all over again with his silence, because that's what these men have to do, it's their only defence. And offence is the best defence, and he uses it too.
So I know you're right, Orchid, and I've always known it but when I was loving him it was impossible to recognize, because he represented things about myself that I was in love with.
And I kind of felt, because of the way he acts in session and sometimes out of it, and on the phone, I mean he's so Prideful, and I don't know why but I got that so strongly, and then also I loved his humility, but it was hard to know if it was real or fake.
I loved him.
I loved his look of concern and well-being.
He's gorgeous.
Which is unfortunate. Because it's the gorgeous men who sometimes turn out to be the most frail, and the most ardent in thinking they need to protect themselves.
He did everything possible to protect himself against my... issue. Which really, perhaps even to little old lady-hood, will cause me problems unless I learn to take it and handle it all.. lightly.
I think, he was f*cked.
And he was quite willing to let my ship go down, so that his could float.
And for that, he was disappointing.
But real. Very, very real.

 

You're right, Orchid » orchid

Posted by Susan47 on December 27, 2005, at 14:48:03

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T » Susan47, posted by orchid on December 27, 2005, at 5:03:24

Also, it's the physical crimes in society that are easy to punish. The moral ones are and always have been more difficult to prove. So yes, you're right, I'm the one who will wear this, if anything is to be worn. And I always knew that, too. And I always knew that I wasn't always being rational, or straight, but I always knew that there's a reason for it, there was reasoning behind all of it. Finding it out and being able to release myself from my family's own drama and my role with them made me able to do the same with the role I'd taken on for this ex-T, and if any of what I'm saying is accurate than I must feel terribly sorry, but I think it's probably all just a construct of my imagination. I mean, the difference between sane and insane .. what is it, really?

 

Re: You're right, Orchid » Susan47

Posted by orchid on December 28, 2005, at 3:03:49

In reply to You're right, Orchid » orchid, posted by Susan47 on December 27, 2005, at 14:48:03

Take Care Susan. I hope you don't get into any trouble.

I don't think you should really call your Ex T anymore. For whatever reason. Let him be what he is - a good guy or a bad guy or whatever. You try to move on with all your heart. And this world is filled with plenty of wonderful people who are there for you. What good is someone to you who isn't available? Even if he is the best? You would be much better off with someone more ordinary but who is devoted TO YOU.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T

Posted by joslynn on December 29, 2005, at 17:15:45

In reply to Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on December 25, 2005, at 13:27:37

I have had the problem also of not being able to let go of someone emotionally. I haven't done the things you mentioned, but I understand the feelings. One thing I know is that letting go frees YOU to live, to be open to what God/the universe/whatever you believe in has to offer.

It's too bad he won't just block your number, because that would probably be a favor to you, actually,

At this point, I would suggest you view this as an addiction. That is what I had to do with someone I had a little rendezvous with, who was bad news and lived in my neighborhood. I had to look at it the same way an alcoholic has to view booze. First I read up on everything I could about love addiction.

It got to the point where I would put a gold star on my calendar every day I avoided the coffee shop where he hung out, etc. I started shopping at a completely different grocery store. Like many people who kind of pull you in with charm at first, he was quite happy to continue the intrigue on a toxic level, but that's not what I wanted.

Seriously, type in love addiction to google. Reward yourself every time you don't call.

Maybe he was emotionally seductive in the beginning, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not emotionally available at all to you now.

If you view him as a toxic substance that you are allergic to, which you just have to avoid, that may take some of the emotions out of it??

Good luck. It is hard but worth it.

 

Re: Help me please, re: ex-T

Posted by Susan47 on January 1, 2006, at 16:08:29

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by joslynn on December 29, 2005, at 17:15:45

>
>
> It's too bad he won't just block your number, because that would probably be a favor to you, actually,

He did initially block my number(s), the ones I'd been calling from. He told me though that when I changed to cell and internet-based service that he couldn't do that and if he could, he would. Which hurt but made sense from his perspective, which was that he didn't know what else to do to get rid of this troublesome ex-patient. I still think about that and I just want to swear at him, in outrage for being so simple-minded.
>
> At this point, I would suggest you view this as an addiction. That is what I had to do with someone I had a little rendezvous with, who was bad news and lived in my neighborhood. I had to look at it the same way an alcoholic has to view booze. First I read up on everything I could about love addiction.
>
> It got to the point where I would put a gold star on my calendar every day I avoided the coffee shop where he hung out, etc. I started shopping at a completely different grocery store. Like many people who kind of pull you in with charm at first, he was quite happy to continue the intrigue on a toxic level, but that's not what I wanted.

No. At one point I remember telling the answering machine that this was sick. I knew the fact that he was listening to all my calls initially, or gave the impression to me that he was, was toxic. I knew that he shouldn't have been letting me do it. I knew that he should've demanded exactly the reason for it and insisted on knowing, and been straight with me about his own need for reassurance, and his own need to be seen in a certain way. He has this huge need for respect. It's overwhelming, but it isn't alone in his needs. I was too caught up in them, to see straight. I know myself well, now. I know exactly who I am. I did the work.
>
> Seriously, type in love addiction to google. Reward yourself every time you don't call.
>
> Maybe he was emotionally seductive in the beginning, but that doesn't change the fact that he is not emotionally available at all to you now.
>
> If you view him as a toxic substance that you are allergic to, which you just have to avoid, that may take some of the emotions out of it??
>
> Good luck. It is hard but worth it.

I agree, joslyyn, thanks you lovely woman.

 

I did the work

Posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:11

In reply to Re: Help me please, re: ex-T, posted by Susan47 on January 1, 2006, at 16:08:29

Well actually I must not have. Because I still am phoning. I hate the way I need the truth. I hate it, the way I am. I'm like a dog who won't let go of a rotting, stinking carcass .. because there must be nourishment in there somewhere. Somewhere, I know there's good. And I'll die trying to get it. I have to stop. Someone help me stop. I'm effing useless this way. I keep trying to explain and understand what isn't understandable, what will never be explained, I keep tearing my soul to a bloody pulp trying to understand that I am Okay. Wanting This Person, this person, to make all the difference for me. Because he seemed like he could, he seemed like he would. Until it was all ruined, by me. I don't know what exactly, probably a look, an expression, the wrong words, but something made me awful. I can be not awful. I can be other things. Why does it hurt so much, oh dear God why WHY does it hurt so much to be seen so dismissively, so resentfully, why does it matter? Who knows why it matters? Why does it matter, what is WRONG with me?

 

Will anybody visit me in jail?

Posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:43:37

In reply to I did the work, posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:11

Will there be any friends left for me, after this shameful thing gets out? I'm just trying to imagine people finding out how messed up I am. I can't imagine it, well I can, but it is pretty horrible. As it is I have to either spill this whole story to someone or take it to my grave, shamefully. It's one of those things I can't outlive.

 

Re: Will anybody visit me in jail? » Susan47

Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 22:06:27

In reply to Will anybody visit me in jail?, posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:43:37

I don't know the answers to any of your questions, Susan, but I do know that you can outlive this. I've done things I thought I could never live with having done -- better die tonight, so that I will never have to face up to it.

And I'm still here.

As far as what you're going through, though, are you taking any meds? I'm wondering if something like Risperdal would help you? What about therapy -- are you seeing a therapist now? Can that therapist help you get past this?

 

Re: I did the work » Susan47

Posted by JenStar on January 3, 2006, at 22:49:03

In reply to I did the work, posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:37:11

Susan,
From the things you write, it seems to me that you do NOT want the truth, even though you said you want it. For the truth is that this man is not interested in pursuing any relationship with you, be it therapeutic or otherwise. He simply does not want it. YOU are the one who is continuing to call him, who is refusing to let go.

Susan, it sounds to me like you're starting to act dangerously delusional. Dangerous to yourself, that is -- I'm worried that you will do something that you will regret, especially whe you talk about having visits in jail!

Please, please get some help so that you can leave this man alone and move on in your life.

I hope you are well.
JenStar

 

Re: Will anybody visit me in jail? » Susan47

Posted by Dinah on January 3, 2006, at 22:57:31

In reply to Will anybody visit me in jail?, posted by Susan47 on January 3, 2006, at 20:43:37

Susan, it doesn't sound like you're headed to jail if you can stop this now. Maybe talk to a pdoc about meds, or seek therapy (maybe with a woman this time)?

No matter what he did to you, or what you want from him, at this point all you're doing is hurting yourself.

I hate to see you hurt yourself over this.

He just isn't worth it.

 

I think this is great advice (nm) » JenStar

Posted by Racer on January 3, 2006, at 23:36:43

In reply to Re: I did the work » Susan47, posted by JenStar on January 3, 2006, at 22:49:03

 

Re: I did the work

Posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 0:07:19

In reply to Re: I did the work » Susan47, posted by JenStar on January 3, 2006, at 22:49:03

Totally, I know that and it just hurts and I don't know why it hurts, because of COURSE he doesn't want a relationship with me, never has and never would, and I understand that so clearly on an intellectual level, AND emotionally I know it and have always known and understood it. From the beginning, from the very first. Which is why him looking at me in a sexual way just felt so terrible, so bad, and wrong, and hurt from the first but I didn't know it. I felt so attached to him at that point already, he had absolutely no idea.
I mean, maybe he did, before I even told him all this obsessional stuff I had running through my head. Don't you know that I TOLD him exactly how I felt right off the bat, as soon as I knew how I felt, which is that loving sh*t patients get for their therapists, I told him exactly how it felt. But I can't erase what happened after that, no matter. I keep calling trying to make it better, trying to make him trust me again and trying to trust him back and I can't, nothing will get the trust back ever again and it HURTS god damn it because I just wanted him to see me as a special person, NOT another patient in there obsessing and putting her t*ts on show.
Which is how he saw me. And I want to stop him seeing that. I'm not his wife, I'm not his partner, I'm not even his friend. I was his patient and I wanted that and I moved out of that into a different role, I carried a sexual role as soon as I saw him look at me that way.
Don't you get it?
Doesn't ANYBODY get it?


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