Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 570043

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Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » happyflower

Posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 20:45:19

In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by happyflower on October 22, 2005, at 19:33:36

(previous post for you, too)
>
>
> I am sure you have a good T , but if he was dealing with his countertransference, than it wouldn't be affecting you. :) Just what I think.

I didn't say he was DONE dealing with his counter-transference................. 8^)

 

Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall

Posted by gardenergirl on October 22, 2005, at 23:47:24

In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:53:37

> *I* want to come up with some of those great interpretations...

And you know what? Doing that is a very healthy thing. My T was kind of funny when he said that my interpretation enlightened him, and that I had made it first and then said, "but it's not a competition." I said that I thought it was good that I was starting to figure stuff out on my own. Yes, it takes the intensity down in our sessions, but it's what I will need to be able to do more for myself when I no longer can see him. It's actually kind of nice not to cry through the entire sesssion every time now, and when I do start to, it is a big clue about something.
>
> And I did tell him that I was angry even though it felt unkind. It was just difficult - uncomfortable. And yes, I think it is related to the critical transference issue... You are so smart.

:) I'm glad you did that. Good for you.
>
> So how DO we maintain the intensity while making progress on our own and surviving between sessions?

That's the $64,000 question (or has it gone way up with inflation and all?) :)

I know that the time I had that really bad session and wasn't able to see him for a week, it was very very helpful to be able to process it here. I could have tried to go in earlier, but I admit I was afraid to call, and then logistically it was too hard and then too late. This is actually the time he mentioned Babble and diluting transference.

Okay wait a minute. I'm getting big emotionally intense events mixed up. It was actually the birthday fiasco just after the Babble party when this came up. I emailed him my first post when I really let all the raw hurt and stuff out. And I told him that I had been sobbing on the phone with Racer that evening. (really really sobbing...I think I scared her for a minute.)

And I think that I had worked thru some of the emotions by the time I was able to see him, and so perhaps it was less "gratifying" to him that he didn't get all the intense and "juicy" emotion, but instead a watered down version? We still talked and talked about it, and that was very helpful. He still had insights and interpretations that I had not come up with yet.

I don't know. I think maybe we need to do what's best for ourselves. If we post a lot and find that we are starting to see things one-sided based on others' responses, maybe we need to rein it in. But if we take what we learn from on Babble, and put it together with what we learn in therapy, and take the best, toss the stuff that's not relevant...that seems like a very useful and healthy way to approach it.

Kind of like when I post a dream. I do that because I think it's interesting to hear what others react to in the dream. But ultimately, I still know it's what it means to me that's most important. I appreciate and think about what others say, and some of it influences my thinking by broadening it, making me reflect, etc. But we can't go by any one person's opinion or any one general way of thinking. At least to me, that's less adaptive and healthy.

What a tough question. I kind of have a gut, abstract feeling of what it would feel like to balance this well, but I can't describe it.

Not to talk too much about DBT, but it's a "wise mind" place, I think.

Take care,

gg

 

Babble and therapy

Posted by daisym on October 23, 2005, at 0:35:52

In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on October 22, 2005, at 23:47:24

I've been thinking and thinking about this. I think what I've come up with is that I use babble to help me survive therapy and I use therapy to help me survive my life.

It took me a long time to figure out what was happening to me between sessions. I think my first post here was about feeling emotions after sessions instead of during. I needed babble to make sense of the theraputic process. But I don't typically (though I do sometimes) use babble for my "issues" -- like whether I should stay or go in my marriage, etc. I like support around the issues though, don't get me wrong. More, I like sorting out my interactions with my therapist and all these needs and reactions to him I'm having.

I guess I'd consider babble both soul soothing and courage building. If I can figure out how to write it down, I can figure out how to say it during a session. Sometimes I need a push toward saying it during sessions. Sometimes I need reassurance that it was OK that I DID say it during a session.

Does it dilute the transference? I guess it is impossible for me to figure that out since I see my therapist so much. If it does, I need it to. What I know happens is that I will talk about a subject I've written about and his questions and interpretations typically take us down a road I haven't gone yet.

Someone wrote that their therapist told them to stop visiting sites that were upsetting. Mine has done the same thing. But by bringing him my fears about what I read, we are able to talk about what I think will happen to me. I do talk about "the board" in therapy -- he sometimes asks if I'm ever given a hard time here about the frequency of my sessions or my dependency, because I struggle with those things -- but he also asks if hearing from others normalizes my experiences for me. Especially about being in parts and pieces. And about therapy taking years and years for some of us. But then again, he has benefitted directly from my participation here, having been alerted to a potentially dangerous situation. So I think he may have a different understanding about what we do for each other.

Lastly I will say this: a good deal of my therapy has focused on allowing myself to feel needy, to reach out for help and to not keep so many secrets. If I felt I couldn't talk about what was going on behind that door, if I felt it needed to be completely private, it would be another secret I was keeping. I still don't do these things much in my "real" life -- but the freedom of being so honest here has been truly healing.

I have great faith you will sort all this out between you.

(((Fallsfall)))

 

Re: Chapter 3 » fallsfall

Posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 7:45:26

In reply to Chapter 3, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:14:05

Falls -

Everything makes sense from both sides of the couch. Maybe he underestimates how much we support each other and he is afraid of someone saying "you shouldn't be having those types of feelings, sounds too intense, leave." He doesn't want some unknown person to tell you what to do with these feelings. Luckily, most of us are here because we do have intense feelings about something ... a lot of us have feelings about our therapists, whether it's described as attachment, dependency, love, etc. And more often than not, we truly understand what another poster is describing, and help them bring these thoughts into the therapy room.

I'm not sure if my T knows the name of this site. I figure, I am myself here. There is nothing I have written that eventually doesn't make its way into therapy ... well, not some babblemail thoughts : -)

We need you here Falls. I love reading what you have to say. And I'm flattered that you brought in my post.

Now we are off to pick some pumpkins, sip cider, chow on doughnuts. Yum.

 

Re: Chapter 2

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:15:39

In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on October 22, 2005, at 23:47:24

>I said that I thought it was good that I was starting to figure stuff out on my own. Yes, it takes the intensity down in our sessions, but it's what I will need to be able to do more for myself when I no longer can see him.

Yes, I think that part of their job is to teach us to do therapy by ourselves. Just like a parent teaches a child how to take care of themself. Some patients achieve that independence quickly, others take a long time (even forever). But I think that those of us who take a long time are still learning - it's just that we have so much more to learn than those who are done quickly.

> That's the $64,000 question (or has it gone way up with inflation and all?) :)
>
> I know that the time I had that really bad session and wasn't able to see him for a week, it was very very helpful to be able to process it here. I could have tried to go in earlier, but I admit I was afraid to call, and then logistically it was too hard and then too late.

Would you have made more of an effort to see him if you didn't have Babble to fall back on?

This is actually the time he mentioned Babble and diluting transference.
>
> Okay wait a minute. I'm getting big emotionally intense events mixed up. It was actually the birthday fiasco just after the Babble party when this came up. I emailed him my first post when I really let all the raw hurt and stuff out. And I told him that I had been sobbing on the phone with Racer that evening. (really really sobbing...I think I scared her for a minute.)

So, I can understand them not wanting to lose this emotion, and wanting to see it for themselves. But what is it that they expect us to do? Burying it doesn't seem helpful (because THAT dilutes the emotion, too, or at least makes it hard to call the emotion back on command). So we are left with this emotion that doesn't quite understand that our session is 32 hours away. I don't quite think that they want us to call THEM every time...... (Though Freud did take his patients on vacation with him). So I guess we need to either process the emotion or tolerate it. Maybe that is the key - to tolerate the emotion between sessions so it can be processed during sessions. But if we can make progress with processing it between sessions, why shouldn't we utilize that time? Why should we wait for them?
>
> And I think that I had worked thru some of the emotions by the time I was able to see him, and so perhaps it was less "gratifying" to him that he didn't get all the intense and "juicy" emotion, but instead a watered down version?

Sometimes it does seem like they just don't want to miss out on the juicy details... I know better, but it does seem that way...

> I don't know. I think maybe we need to do what's best for ourselves. If we post a lot and find that we are starting to see things one-sided based on others' responses, maybe we need to rein it in. But if we take what we learn from on Babble, and put it together with what we learn in therapy, and take the best, toss the stuff that's not relevant...that seems like a very useful and healthy way to approach it.

Good idea.
> >
> What a tough question. I kind of have a gut, abstract feeling of what it would feel like to balance this well, but I can't describe it.
>
Thanks for helping me think it through.

> Not to talk too much about DBT, but it's a "wise mind" place, I think.
>
Ugh. Mindfulness is still greek to me.
> Take care,
>
> gg
>
Thanks,
Falls.

 

Re: Babble and therapy

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:43:10

In reply to Babble and therapy, posted by daisym on October 23, 2005, at 0:35:52

> I've been thinking and thinking about this. I think what I've come up with is that I use babble to help me survive therapy and I use therapy to help me survive my life.

At one point, my therapist changed what he was doing because he didn't want me to need Babble in order to survive therapy. But I still do...

>
> It took me a long time to figure out what was happening to me between sessions. I think my first post here was about feeling emotions after sessions instead of during. I needed babble to make sense of the theraputic process. But I don't typically (though I do sometimes) use babble for my "issues" -- like whether I should stay or go in my marriage, etc. I like support around the issues though, don't get me wrong. More, I like sorting out my interactions with my therapist and all these needs and reactions to him I'm having.

But this is precisely what my therapist doesn't want me to do. He wouldn't mind if I talked about my "issues" so much. He wants me to keep the transference and interaction with him private.

>
> I guess I'd consider babble both soul soothing and courage building. If I can figure out how to write it down, I can figure out how to say it during a session. Sometimes I need a push toward saying it during sessions. Sometimes I need reassurance that it was OK that I DID say it during a session.

Maybe I should try journalling more. This post has been helpful in two ways. First, just getting it all down in words is helpful for me. Second, getting feedback is also helpful. But I COULD get it all down and not share it and still get the first benefit. Except that it seems like a waste to write something if noone will read it. My first therapist would read all of my journalling - so the information remained private between us. My current therapist wants to *hear* it, and won't read my reams of journalling.
>
> Does it dilute the transference? I guess it is impossible for me to figure that out since I see my therapist so much. If it does, I need it to. What I know happens is that I will talk about a subject I've written about and his questions and interpretations typically take us down a road I haven't gone yet.

Right, so do they not want us to have gone down the other road at all? Are these other roads we are travelling useless or hurtful?
>
> Someone wrote that their therapist told them to stop visiting sites that were upsetting. Mine has done the same thing. But by bringing him my fears about what I read, we are able to talk about what I think will happen to me. I do talk about "the board" in therapy -- he sometimes asks if I'm ever given a hard time here about the frequency of my sessions or my dependency, because I struggle with those things -- but he also asks if hearing from others normalizes my experiences for me. Especially about being in parts and pieces. And about therapy taking years and years for some of us.

I am starting to think that Babble, for me, is more about a pressure valve that helps me to tolerate the emotions between sessions. Maybe I need to try to accept the emotions more and try to process them and get rid of them less. But I am in such a hurry. Why take 3 days to do something if you can do it in 1? The answer is because the quality of the processing is different? Thinking out loud here...

>But then again, he has benefitted directly from my participation here, having been alerted to a potentially dangerous situation. So I think he may have a different understanding about what we do for each other.

But this is exactly what my therapist is complaining about. He does say that he would listen to a spouse or best friend - but a friend from the internet??? And he doesn't find my overinvolvement with IRL friends helpful for me, either. And THIS is the issue that we are trying to talk about (how involved is it healthy for me to be in my friends' lives and problems, how much action is it healthy for me to take, how much responsibility is it healthy for me to feel?). But it seems like we keep plowing into this issue of his - so he isn't willing to consider that SOME involvement IS OK. Either that or he *IS* right, and I'm just trying to find an excuse (i.e. counter-transference) to prove him wrong so I can keep doing what I "want" to do.
>
> Lastly I will say this: a good deal of my therapy has focused on allowing myself to feel needy, to reach out for help and to not keep so many secrets. If I felt I couldn't talk about what was going on behind that door, if I felt it needed to be completely private, it would be another secret I was keeping. I still don't do these things much in my "real" life -- but the freedom of being so honest here has been truly healing.

I'm glad we can help you with that, Daisy.
>
> I have great faith you will sort all this out between you.

Me, too. Both he and I do want to figure this out, and we'll keep bashing away at it until we do.
>
> (((Fallsfall)))

Thanks, Daisy,
Falls.

 

Above for GG and Daisy... (nm)

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:47:52

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 7:45:26

 

Re: Chapter 3 » Annierose

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:55:06

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 7:45:26

> Falls -
>
> Everything makes sense from both sides of the couch. Maybe he underestimates how much we support each other and he is afraid of someone saying "you shouldn't be having those types of feelings, sounds too intense, leave." He doesn't want some unknown person to tell you what to do with these feelings. Luckily, most of us are here because we do have intense feelings about something ... a lot of us have feelings about our therapists, whether it's described as attachment, dependency, love, etc. And more often than not, we truly understand what another poster is describing, and help them bring these thoughts into the therapy room.

I don't think that my descriptions of what goes on at this site have given him a good understanding of what we do. Either I'm not explaining it right, or he is hearing through filters. I can't figure out any way for him to understand other than reading babble - which I haven't been able to convince him to do. Maybe on Thursday I'll ask if we can spend the session reading Babble. But at what point am I just continuing to argue with him? How do I tell if he DOES understand, but simply disagrees? This is a common pattern for me. I believe that the other person doesn't agree because they don't completely understand - when in reality perhaps they don't agree because they don't agree? How do I determine the difference? When do I stop trying to convince them of my perspective and start listening to theirs?

>
> I'm not sure if my T knows the name of this site. I figure, I am myself here. There is nothing I have written that eventually doesn't make its way into therapy ... well, not some babblemail thoughts : -)

Right. I have not written anything that I don't want him to know. Because he can't help me if he doesn't know these things (all things). Secrets don't help me.

>
> We need you here Falls. I love reading what you have to say. And I'm flattered that you brought in my post.
>
> Now we are off to pick some pumpkins, sip cider, chow on doughnuts. Yum.

Yum. Hope you had fun.

Falls.

 

Re: Chapter 3 » fallsfall

Posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 12:30:22

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 » Annierose, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:55:06

Hi Falls,

> I don't think that my descriptions of what goes on at this site have given him a good understanding of what we do. Either I'm not explaining it right, or he is hearing through filters. I can't figure out any way for him to understand other than reading babble - which I haven't been able to convince him to do. Maybe on Thursday I'll ask if we can spend the session reading Babble. But at what point am I just continuing to argue with him? How do I tell if he DOES understand, but simply disagrees? This is a common pattern for me. I believe that the other person doesn't agree because they don't completely understand - when in reality perhaps they don't agree because they don't agree? How do I determine the difference? When do I stop trying to convince them of my perspective and start listening to theirs?

If you can’t get him to live in your house (that idea made me smile!), then maybe getting him to read Babble is the next best thing.

To be honest, I think it’s all very well for him to disagree with you, but as you point out, you need to be sure that he really does understand. And if he refuses to read Babble, then I’m not sure he’s being open enough to having a full and frank discussion. Of course, he might read Babble and still disagree… or he might read Babble and still not understand. But it would be a gesture of goodwill if he would agree to read.

I guess I tend to think that therapy is a relationship like any other. When I’m experiencing difficulties in any relationship I talk about it to my friends because I need to. Of course, therapy is also unlike all other relationships… and I suppose it’s possible to make a case that one aspect of its distinctness is that it shouldn’t be talked about with friends. While this might perhaps be true (and I’m not persuaded that it is), I think in fact it might be somewhat unrealistic. If I feel I need to talk about something, I simply can’t keep a lid on it. Some people can; I can’t. It’s part of who I am and I feel no pressing desire to change it!

And maybe you don’t have to agree with your therapist. Or he doesn’t have to agree with you. Maybe he’d feel he can’t help you as much if you don’t agree with him about this. But it seems to me that there’s something of a trade off and if it works for you at least he seems to acknowledge that you’re allowed to make the decision yourself!

Tamar

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » Tamar

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 16:24:19

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 » fallsfall, posted by Tamar on October 23, 2005, at 12:30:22

He does let me make the decision. He just tries to provide input so I can make a good decision.

I'll have to ask him why he won't read Babble. Is it because it would take HIS time (so, would he read it if I paid him to? Why should I pay to refute his counter-transference?), is it because he wants all of his information to come straight from me?, Is it because he isn't interested in what Babble truly is, but is only interested in how *I* perceive it? I have given him (and read to him) a couple of posts. But I always feel like he doesn't want to hear/read them. I think because he isn't interested in what other people say, only what I say (but I can't just read him my posts, because they don't make any sense without other people's posts. The importance is the interaction - not a single post.)

Maybe this doesn't come up in real life because in real life you don't have a record of what was said. In some ways, I feel like I'm dragging him (kicking and screaming) into the information age. Is it unreasonable for me to expect him to do some research on his own for this?

now we are getting into Chapter 4...

Chapter 4 has to do with how I feel when I think that someone else is asking me to do their job in addition to mine. I want to save Chapter 4 for my therapist (we've talked about it a bit in the past). It enrages me - quite out of proportion - clearly transference of some sort.

So if I'm going to save it for him, can I journal about it? Or will that bleed the intensity off, too? How do I hold this until tomorrow? How do I time it so that I freak about this at 11:01 AM Monday? How can we schedule these things? It seems so artificial. Can I try to figure out some of this myself?

.............

 

Re: Chapter 2 » fallsfall

Posted by fairywings on October 23, 2005, at 16:26:03

In reply to Re: Chapter 2 » gardenergirl, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 18:53:37

>
> So how DO we maintain the intensity while making progress on our own and surviving between sessions?

I think since you're going 3x per week, you probably have a lot more intensity than if you were going once a week. It's hard to get over the stuff that upsets you in that short a span of time. Since I go 1x per week, I've found that the intensity dies down naturally because I write things out, and go over them and over them if they bother me. By the time I get to my session I'm pretty calmed down and have been able to come to terms with a lot of what's going on.

fw

 

Re: Babble and therapy » fallsfall

Posted by fairywings on October 23, 2005, at 16:40:23

In reply to Re: Babble and therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 10:43:10


>
> Maybe I should try journalling more. This post has been helpful in two ways. First, just getting it all down in words is helpful for me. Second, getting feedback is also helpful. But I COULD get it all down and not share it and still get the first benefit. Except that it seems like a waste to write something if noone will read it. My first therapist would read all of my journalling - so the information remained private between us. My current therapist wants to *hear* it, and won't read my reams of journalling.

hi falls,

i think journaling is great, and if you're already doing it then you can see how much it helps. i come home from my sessions and write down everything that we talked about, sometimes word for word, because then I can step back and see what we did, what we've covered, and if i'm making any progress. then i also journal my thoughts in between. my memory is really bad, so it helps that i write it out, or i wouldn't remember a thing.

I never felt comfortable writing things down for my ex T, but this one has been wonderful about it. there are things i never could have expressed, i'm a lot different in writing, and it would have taken us a lot longer to cover what we've covered, but since you're going 3x per week (which i wish i could do) you probably have a much higher comfort level. it's good that you two have an understanding of how you want things to be done in therapy.

fw


 

Re: Babble and therapy » fairywings

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 16:52:44

In reply to Re: Babble and therapy » fallsfall, posted by fairywings on October 23, 2005, at 16:40:23

I think it is different when you go once a week vs. 3/week. I guess I'll ask him tomorrow what he wants me to do between sessions. When my therapist was reading my journalling I was going 1/week, and I also was more honest in my journalling than I could be in person.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall

Posted by fairywings on October 23, 2005, at 16:58:33

In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fairywings, posted by fallsfall on October 22, 2005, at 19:00:04

>
> Why won't you talk about Babble? It is part of your life, right? Your therapist can help you better if you are open and honest (the whole truth...). What would he say about Babble? What would you tell him about it?

I know you're right about this falls. I supposed the reason I don't bring it up, at least haven't yet is because there are too many other things to cover, too little time. But the reason i say i wouldn't bring it up is because i don't know HOW to bring it up. I mean, what do you say? i'm still trying to figure out how to do therapy with this T, so that's part of it too.
>
> My therapist has proven to me that we WILL come to a comfortable conclusion. That he (and I) will work on it until we do. That IS a good feeling.

I think it's great that you have such a close and comfortable relationship, it must feel good. Since your T is married to a T, do they work in the same office, have you ever met her. I wonder what she's like.

fw

 

Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fairywings

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 17:20:52

In reply to Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall, posted by fairywings on October 23, 2005, at 16:58:33

> I know you're right about this falls. I supposed the reason I don't bring it up, at least haven't yet is because there are too many other things to cover, too little time. But the reason i say i wouldn't bring it up is because i don't know HOW to bring it up. I mean, what do you say?

How would you bring up a conversation with a friend who you haven't told him about? "I was talking to a friend the other day...". So how about "I was posting on this online bulletin board the other day. We talk about therapy on this board..." As I see it, it is just a part of my life. He hears about it when it is important to me, and doesn't hear about it when nothing major is going on.

>i'm still trying to figure out how to do therapy with this T, so that's part of it too.

Ah, I'm still trying to figure out how to do therapy, too... I think I will always be figuring out how to do therapy.

>Since your T is married to a T, do they work in the same office, have you ever met her. I wonder what she's like.

No, she is the head of counseling services at the local private high school. I've never met her, but I've seen a picture. She looks nice. I'm glad - I want him to be happy.

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall

Posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 17:24:24

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » Tamar, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 16:24:19

I don't know the answers to your questions. But I do think journaling is okay. Isn't that a positive coping mechanism? Do we have to think of it in terms of "bleeding off the transference"? Do we think and over-think more than the average bear?

I know how frustrating it is to knowingly feel that your reaction is out of proportion to the truth of the given situation. Guilty of that myself.

By the way, in addition to our love for the same food, we also have the same therapy appointments: Monday, Thursday, Friday. I find the wait between M to Th more difficult, even though it is the same amount of time. I really liked going 4 times last week, except of course for the content of the sessions. Too bad it's so expensive and my insurance is about to run out early next year ..... can't even think about that quite yet.

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall

Posted by Dinah on October 23, 2005, at 18:50:43

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » Tamar, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 16:24:19

I've been reading your experience and wanting to comment, but I haven't really been sure how. My therapist isn't psycho-analytically oriented and I guess that makes his reactions different. He likes the different points of view, and often thinks Babblers are spot on. At any rate, we explore what you guys bring to the table.

He does get defensive if he feels criticized, or if he feels long term therapy in general has been criticized. But he gets over it.

He also enjoys our discussions about issues that other people bring up that I might not have. And they often springboard to my own topics, perhaps with a bit of nudging on his part.

I guess he figures that Babble is like everything else, more grist for the mill.

So while I intellectually grasp why more psychodynamically oriented therapists might disapprove, because I've read some literature to that effect, but I can't really grasp it because it's so foreign to my experience.

Which doesn't mean either approach is right or wrong, just different.

So maybe that's the crux of the issue. Why does either of you need to be not right? Can't both of you be right in your own ways, just different ways? And can you tolerate differences between you and your therapist? Not differences as in arguments, but differences in ways of thinking?

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 19:08:52

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 17:24:24

Yes, we think more than the average bear...

> I know how frustrating it is to knowingly feel that your reaction is out of proportion to the truth of the given situation. Guilty of that myself.

That's how I know it is transference. It is interesting because I am angry at my therapist, but at the same time I miss him and need him. I think that is because I know that even though I feel angry at him, that he's not really the one I'm angry at.

>
> By the way, in addition to our love for the same food, we also have the same therapy appointments: Monday, Thursday, Friday. I find the wait between M to Th more difficult, even though it is the same amount of time.

During the week you have to function - if things are hard in therapy you can't just sleep late. So I go Monday at 11, how about you?

>I really liked going 4 times last week, except of course for the content of the sessions. Too bad it's so expensive and my insurance is about to run out early next year ..... can't even think about that quite yet.

What will you do? I can't imagine...

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 (prev. for Annierose) » Dinah

Posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 19:27:32

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on October 23, 2005, at 18:50:43

Yes, I think the orientation of the therapist does matter with this question.

> So maybe that's the crux of the issue. Why does either of you need to be not right? Can't both of you be right in your own ways, just different ways? And can you tolerate differences between you and your therapist? Not differences as in arguments, but differences in ways of thinking?

It is almost a case of economy. I go to therapy because some of the ways I think about things get me into trouble (or, as he says, "Are not helpful for you"). My goal in therapy is to be "more helpful" to myself. That means deciding what things to change. But I'm not going to just take his word for it. He needs to show me why something isn't helpful before I'll change how I do things. If Babble ISN"T helpful for me, then I WILL change how I use it. But I'm not going to change if I don't have to. So if we were to say that we will agree to disagree, then I'm ignoring an area where I might actually want to make a change. I would rather discuss it and determine what IS best for me. It isn't a disagreement, it is a search for the truth - which involves the two of us trying to understand the issue better and trying to come to agreement.

What is painful for me is NOT that he doesn't understand Babble, nor that he is asking me to give up or change the way I use Babble. That is simply a discussion. What is painful is the transference that it brings up for me about him asking me to do his work as well as my own (I feel like I shouldn't have to spend my therapy time educating him on online bulletin boards, yet he doesn't seem to be willing to do it on his time). My reaction to this issue is WAY out of proportion, so I can tell that it really DOESN"T have anything to do with Babble (nor with him). If we stopped talking about it now, we would be missing an opportunity to figure out why I AM so upset about this.

And if we don't deal with it now, with this issue, the transference will come up again (in fact it is affecting me at work right now, and with my daughter). I NEED to work on this so I can work the transference through so it won't keep bothering me.

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 (prev. for Annierose) » fallsfall

Posted by Dinah on October 23, 2005, at 21:50:06

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 (prev. for Annierose) » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 19:27:32

I'm not saying you don't need to discuss it, or work through it. I'm sorry if that's what I sounded like I was saying.

I was just thinking about it, in terms of he and my therapist having such different views of Babble. And how I didn't think my therapist was wrong about it, and I don't think your therapist is wrong about it.

That's all. Nothing profound.

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall

Posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 22:18:38

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4, posted by fallsfall on October 23, 2005, at 19:09:37

Monday @ 10

Insurance, it's complicated. My husband started with a new job, just about a year ago. Many aspects of his health insurance are murky (IMO). They only allow a LIFETIME of 100 sessions. I have my T give me 2 bills. One for insurance, so I only submit an average of 5 sessions a month, and I pay out of pocket for the rest of the sessions. However ... there may be good news just around the corner. Last week my husband received a check from their private insurance carrier. Seems we have met their out of pocket expenses, and they reimbursed us for those expenses. So I'm wondering, what does this mean??? I'm afraid to call their ppl and ask about my therapy. I'm shouldn't, but it's a small world ... i.e. it's local, I may run into this person at the next company function.

I try not to think about it. Cutting back to twice a week would be difficult. It's motivating to keep saying what is on my mind before time and money runs out!!

I know you and your T will come to some sort of understanding. Good Luck. I'll be thinking about you after I leave my session.

 

Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » Annierose

Posted by fallsfall on October 24, 2005, at 6:58:12

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » fallsfall, posted by Annierose on October 23, 2005, at 22:18:38

Isn't 10AM your time the same time as 11AM my time?? This is too funny.

My experience with out-of-pocket maxes is this:

Say I pay a $25 copay for therapy. Once I have payed enough of those (and whatever other copays for other kinds of medical stuff) to reach the "out of pocket" limit, then the insurance company will pay 100% of the remaining covered services. I don't think that it will increase the NUMBER of sessions you can have, but it will increase the AMOUNT of the reimbursement you get for each session. 100 lifetime sessions... Oh my. Is there any chance for authorization of additional sessions for "medical necessity"?

Thanks for your support.

 

Re: Counter-transference : a novel / » fallsfall

Posted by terrics on October 24, 2005, at 9:37:46

In reply to Counter-transference : a novel /, posted by fallsfall on October 21, 2005, at 18:00:36

Hi, I think I like your therapist's style. He is not saying he is in love with you which is not healthy in my opinion. But he is being honest when he knows he made a mistake. Wow, I think more therapists should be like this. ( I never told my T. I come here. Always paranoia about thinking that she could look here).I guess you told hrm that you come here. Do you think that is is a liitle insecure? terrics

 

Re: Did today go better? » fallsfall

Posted by annierose on October 24, 2005, at 15:24:49

In reply to Re: Chapter 3 and Chapter 4 » Annierose, posted by fallsfall on October 24, 2005, at 6:58:12

HI Falls -

I'm in the Eastern Time zone, I believe the same as you. I just keep the faith that I will be able to figure something out as far as insurance and therapy. There is always the hope that my husband will get a new job with different insurance : -) (but I doubt that).

Hoping that chapter 4 went better. These things have a way of working themselves out, especially since the two of you are invested in the relationship.

BTW, I'm jealous of your $25 co-pay. VERY GOOD!

 

Re: Did today go better?

Posted by happyflower on October 24, 2005, at 15:28:50

In reply to Re: Did today go better? » fallsfall, posted by annierose on October 24, 2005, at 15:24:49

> >
> BTW, I'm jealous of your $25 co-pay. VERY GOOD!

I am jealous too! I have to pay a 500 deductiable and then they will only pay half of 15 sessions per year, 50 sessions a lifetime. So I have been paying $90 a session now. Yikes!


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