Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 569871

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Confused, need some advice, please help please

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

Okay, my thoughts are going a little wacky right now become I am confused by my therapist and this post it long, please stick with me, okay. He wants to come to one of my concerts. At first I was flattered, I thought he must really like me or is proud of me.

On a earlier session, several months ago, he has told me I am no more special than any other client, and he will treat me the same, and that I am not very special to him and he doesn't want to be very special to me. Okay, I already knew that, I am not his wife or child, or mother. Duh! I even said to him I know he doesn't really care about me, I am just a number 2000 of the clients he has had. I don't think he liked that comment, but he said well I am still going to treat you like client 2000 and he isn't going to respond to me saying that he doesn't care about me.

Well after this session we ran into each other at the gym, and things became more friendly between us during out sessions. He started to disclose a lot to me about his interestes, which are almost just like mine. We have tons in common, really. Sessions started to run over, when normally he ends the sessions right on time. We would still end the therapy part while we were making my next appointment, then we would chat about our interestes into his lunch hour, maybe 25 min. past my session time. There always seemed to be an end to therapy and then the chatting would happen. I really enjoy talking to him, we really do enjoy each others company, I enjoyed the fact he just wanted to talk to me, just to talk to me, not just for therapy or because I am paying him to listen and talk to me.

Okay, are you still with me? LOL Well now he wants to come to my concert because he likes music and is interested learning more about jazz or classical. Which is cool, but there are tons of better groups he could go and hear. I have told him this, and I say I just don't know why you want to come anyways. If he is going to see me, which I assume that is the reason, why won't he just tell me? He has had a big part of me playing again, and I can see he is proud of me, but why can't be just tell me that? Is it because if he tells me he is going to see me, that would make me think I am very special to him? If he likes me, why don't he just say so, and if he wants to see me play, why not just tell me. It is leaving me confused. I was feeling good about this but now it has left me confused. I guess deep down, I want to matter to him. Any advice ? What do you think is going on in his mind? Is he just trying to mess with my head or his his head messed up? LOL
When he first asked me about coming, I said, "OMG" Then he quickly said, "oh is that too weird". I said no, if he wants to come that is okay with me. Then I asked him WHY he wants to come. Then he turns pink and looks down and says "well I like music too." I hate to be so hard on him, but I feel like he isn't being totally upfront with me. I don't think he is lying, but he isn't telling me everything and it is driving me nuts. Is he trying to protect me or something? I hope someone can make some sense out of all this. Thanks, for reading this, if you made it to the end of my longest post ever! :)

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please

Posted by antigua on October 21, 2005, at 15:09:42

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

Wow, that sounds hard. IMO, a T usually waits to be invited so as to not intrude. This is beginning to sound more personal. What are you going to do? Would being direct w/him help?
antigua

 

More info

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:11:56

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

Well when we were having the I am not VERY special to him conversation, I said while my life was in total turmoil during that time, he was my rock that got me through it. He said, well that sounds very special to me, and he doesn't want that. Then I went on to say that because of him supporting me through the tough times I as having, I learned to trust him, and upon that trust, I started to learn to trust others too. I said to him, how can he not be special to me, when he has done so much to help me change my life? He said well, he can be a LITTLE special to me, just not VERY special to me. Well that is when I told him that there will always be a piece of him inside of me.( motioning to my heart) I meant that, and he knows it, he seems a little moved by it, but didn't respond to that one.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:24:51

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by antigua on October 21, 2005, at 15:09:42

> Wow, that sounds hard. IMO, a T usually waits to be invited so as to not intrude. This is beginning to sound more personal. What are you going to do? Would being direct w/him help?
> antigua

Now that therpy is in the end stages, I feel things have gotten more personal, nothing that crosses any boundries, but maybe bending the strict boundries he once had though. It looks like I am going to have to be more upfront with him about it. He is still helping me a great deal as a therapist, but things are more relaxed and personal.
One time, we were talking about my marriage, and he asks me something about it (i forget what exactly) and then he sort of apologies for asking by saying, well I won't be going my job, if I don't ask you this. I said I know, that is why I am going to see him , because he is my therapist and he is helping me.
I just don't know if he will tell me what he is really feeling about me if I ask. I am afraid he will just say what he is trained to say if I confront him. Is is wrong for him to care about me or like me?

 

above post for antigua :) (nm)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:25:47

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:24:51

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 15:27:13

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

I think your T is being little flexible in his boundaries.

It looks very nice now, and maybe enjoyable, but I think it might end up hurting you in the long run.

The more stricter the boundaries are from the beginning, the easier it is for the client to grow and move on without pain. Once you start getting the feeling that you are special, and start wondering if your T really likes you etc, then it always always makes is much more harder in the end to terminate.

As to your other question about whether he is keeping something from you etc, well, you will never know. He will never admit it even if he likes you, and you will end up feeling only more confused.

I hope for your own sake, that your T doesn't encourage your feelings about him by trying to treat you special. Only you will end up hurting and getting confused in the end.

Maybe you should tell him about your attraction to him, and maybe that will bring him back to reality. It might look like it is very hard to take it now, but trust me, these feelings of being special etc, will end up hurting you lot more in the end.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:40:58

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 15:27:13

Thanks orchid :)

You know he would have to be totally blind if he didn't know I was attracted to him. It is a hard thing to hide, in fact I think there is mutual attraction between us. I can tell he is attracted to me. I think that is why he turnes red and looks down! LOL In fact, one time at the gym he "smiled" hello to me the 2nd time I saw him there, and I smiled really big right back, and he turned red and looked away! LOL

It is so hard, because I do feel the moment I met him, there was something cosmic about it. A feeling I have only every felt for only a few other people, like my grandma.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 15:53:57

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 15:40:58

Would it surprise you that almost all the clients feel the way that you do? And that most therapists feel attracted to their clients to a certain extent?

I think all the clients think like you do. "I am special", "He really likes me", "He is unable to understand himself and he is confused about me", "I should take care of him and teach him", "HE really likes me but is lying to me", "He is struggling with himself to control his liking to me", "WE are soul mates", "He is like me in the male form", "WE would have been attracted to each other even if we had met in any other social circumstances", "There is something magical about us", "There are so many things that are common between us". etc etc.

Every single client thinks like this. And a part of it is true also. I think a T will get attracted to various degrees to almost all clients (maybe not to a few), and there are some common things between any two human beings. I have so many things in common with so many of my colleagues.

Only when we focus on the common things and attraction comes into play, we get misguided into thinking that "we are meant for each other" etc.

All of us fall into this trap. Don't believe it.

Now that I am out of it, I can see so clearly, how almost all the feelings I had during my therapy, are so very untrue. It was all my projection. And for all this, I was quite special to my T too. He didn't charge me even for the whole treatment. Our sessions used to always run into 2 - 3 hours (it was due to other circumstances though). Plus I knew his family very well, and he knew my family well etc. And we really had some common interests also. But all that only ended up really confusing me in the end even more. If I had believed I was just a regular patient, it would have been much more easier for me to move on in the end.

But looking back, I made mountains out of a molehill. The speciality and the common things exist between me and any other colleague of mine also if I look at it objectively. But I don't think about it and extrapolate it. In therapy, there is a huge deal of projection of internal feelings that goes on. That is why we kind of tend to extrapolate all these otherwise common occurences into thinking we are soul mates etc.

It is simply untrue, and it is only our own projection.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:18:32

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 15:53:57

So, Pinkeye, how would you define romantic love? Isn't it also projection of both people torwards each other? Couldn't those same feelings come about in therapy? I am not saying that that is the case with me and my T , but you can't help who you are attracted to and fall in love with. I just wonder what you think the difference is ? :) I think this is interesting.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:24:04

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:18:32

Is is because it is sort of forbidden for a T to become involved with a client legally? But if the feeling is mutually there, does how the 2 people meet, really mean it is not real love or attraction?

 

above post for orchid (nm)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:25:22

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:24:04

 

Sorry I am getting sidetracked, I still need help (nm)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:32:04

In reply to above post for orchid (nm), posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:25:22

 

Can anyone make any sense of my feelings? (nm)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:34:51

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 16:36:11

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:18:32

What people call as romantic love nowadyas is not really romantic love. It is also only projection and infatuation for the most part. That is why after a year or two the love dies down when you realize what the other person really is.

Real love comes when you see the other person for what he/she really is fully, acknowledge their good things and bad things with full heart, and yet you like the person.

That said, what happens between a T and a client is different from what happens between a man and a woman to a significant extent. The interactions and feelings might be similiar, but the degree of inequality is what makes it different. Plus the fact that for you, there is one T. But for the T there are many patients. This is one of the major differences. A man in a normal world doesn't talk to 20 women in the same level of intensity in a week. Whereas a T does. Don't you think that makes it very different? Plus he knows all about you, your weakness, your strength etc, but you don't know that much about him. You see only his best parts. But he sees both your best and the worst parts.

Plus you pay. That is a huge difference. With real love, you don't pay the other person for listening to you and caring for you and spending some time with you.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:29

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

OK. Hereís what I thinkÖ

I think you are special to him and he wants to come to your concert partly because he likes music and partly because he acknowledges that your playing is related to your therapy and thereby to his work with you.

I think his continued chatting with you after the end of your session and 25 minutes into his lunch break is a bit of boundary pushing and while he no doubt enjoys it, he probably has a few concerns about it, and it might cause him to strengthen other boundariesÖ for example, by saying you arenít VERY special to him and he doesnít want to be VERY special to you.

But I think itís inevitable that he will be very special to you. I believe he ought to understand that many clients feel their therapists are very special. I worry about that more than I worry about the 25 minutes chatting after session. It sounds to me as if he isnít aware enough of your likely responses to him.

UnlessÖ he means that he doesnít want to be VERY special in the sense that he doesnít want to encourage you to think there could be a relationship outside therapy.

Nevertheless, you have a relationship outside therapy if he chats to you during his lunch hour. But thatís probably as far as heís prepared to go.

I am sure youíre right when you think heís probably attracted to you. Iíve never seen you, but I suspect that most men are attracted to you. You have a very appealing sense of humour and honesty that I think almost any (straight) man would find alluring.

HOWEVERÖ most therapists simply will not get involved in friendships or romantic relationships with their clients. It would be risking his job if he did. And if heís read the literature, he knows that it would also mean exploiting you because you are vulnerable right now. If he were prepared to exploit you, he wouldnít be the good guy you believe he is.

On the other handÖ I do believe that there can be real love between a therapist and a client. And also real attraction. Some of it may be transference, but some of it can be real love, attraction and affection.

The challenge in those circumstances is to enjoy the real love for what it is. And believe me, Iím still working on that! My own attempt to solve this is to acknowledge my love for my ex-therapist and try to focus on what I *can* have rather than on what I *canít* have. Itís easier said than done, of course... And itís hard to be satisfied with only part of what you want. But if you can enjoy looking at him in therapy and at the gym, if you can enjoy being the focus of his attention in session, if you can enjoy having sexual fantasies about him, and if you can enjoy some mild flirtation with him (knowing that heís probably interested in you too), then thatís a lot of enjoyment.

Iíve often wished my therapist were so attracted to me that he would throw caution to the wind and risk everything for a couple of hours with me. And of course, in that scenario, he wouldnít regret one second of it. And I curse my average looks and my extra weight and our marriages and his profession and all that stuff.

ButÖ I know that even if I were a supermodel he wouldnít f*ck me. And whatís better is that even though Iím not a supermodel, he liked me and enjoyed working with me.

And youíre in an even better situation: you know in your heart that heís attracted to you. Even if heíd never do anything about it, you know heís thought about it. And so you know that itís something of a sacrifice to him to maintain professional boundaries. Unfortunately, part of maintaining those boundaries means never telling you if he feels attracted to you. So even if youíre sure itís true, youíll never get him to confess it, and thatís a real bummer.

Nevertheless, heís thinking primarily of how to work with you so that you can find lasting happiness in lifeÖ I have no doubt that itís a sacrifice for him not to throw caution to the wind. But in a way itís also the ultimate compliment to you that he doesnít.

Just my two cents.

Tamar

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:46

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 16:36:11

I get the unequalnes of power and the fact that you pay the T for his help. But couldn't it still happen? I mean, like I used to work with a lot of guys all day long, but I didn't fall in love with any of them, but I guesss eventually I did, years later, which is my DH.
I know he sees clients all day, but isn't it at least possible for him to fall in love with someone once he got to know them. I can say that my T doesn't know everything about me and I don't know everything about him. But I do see his faults, and he has told me many, so I see him as a regular guy.

But anyways, this is getting off track, I just want to make sense of what my T is doing and how I am feeling. I know about the common feelings in therapy, after all I am a babbler . Just because he is my T , I am reading his reactions and what he says all wrong? So are you saying the fact that since he is my T , he really doesn't like me because a T really can't care about a client or really like them because the client pays them or because he see's clients all day long?

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 17:06:31

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:46

I am not saying that he doesn't like you or doesn't care about you.

What I am saying is that he probably does both (he probably does care about you and he probably does like you quite a bit) - but maybe you are taking it for more than what it is worth.

Maybe it is even possible for a T to genuinely fall in love with a client. But I think the chances of it happening are pretty slim - maybe just next to nil. Attraction - definitely yes. But real love - very highly questionable. I mean, once you know the inside/out of many women, I think Ts will lose the interest.

Plus what is the use anyway? He will never acknowledge it to you, and if you ask he will probably give you a non commital reply. It is really frustrating.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:43:30

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

I'd be upfront and tell him what you've noticed and ask him what it means. It'll put a damper on the romantic aspect of it, but maybe a damper needs to be put. If I remember, your marriage is troubled, you're attracted to your therapist. And now he's giving signs that he's attracted back.

Yes, it sounds as if he's attracted back.

But now what? If he acts on it, he risks his license, and hopefully his self respect. And you lose an important therapeutic relationship that's supposed to help you sort out your marriage, not add more confusion.

My therapist put a few toes over the line, not romantically, but as someone who needs help. And it was hard but I'm calling him on it, or at least the more flagrant toe crossings. The ones that make me feel uncomfortable. The ones I like are a little harder to enforce. But those boundaries are there for a reason. Even after you don't need him as a therapist anymore.

 

Or have I gotten confused?

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:02:07

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:43:30

Which is entirely possible. My concentration level is poor these days.

If so, half my rant is senseless, and never mind.

But the other half is still worthwhile. :)

He can't act on any attraction he feels without seriously jeopardizing his livelihood, professional reputation, and self respect. That's not a really sound basis for any relationship. And this is a road that can lead to a lot of pain. It's fine if it stays a flirtation, but it's already involving boundary bendings. Once those boundaries bend, it's ever so easy to bend them just a bit more.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:44:36

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:29

Hi Tamar! I am glad you responded, I really like how you say things and you seem to really understand me (which is hard for most people). It is kinda of funny that your post is longer than my record breaking one! LOL
>
> I think you are special to him and he wants to come to your concert partly because he likes music and partly because he acknowledges that your playing is related to your therapy and thereby to his work with you.

I think you are right about this, I think he kinda sees me as one his accomplishements too and I think since music is so important to him, having a person who used to think music was my life, start playing again because I feel good, because of his help, has to be an ego booster for him. Most clients you don't get to see proof of the success of therapy. Here he can see it publicly for himself.

> I think his continued chatting with you after the end of your session and 25 minutes into his lunch break is a bit of boundary pushing and while he no doubt enjoys it, he probably has a few concerns about it, and it might cause him to strengthen other boundariesÖ for example, by saying you arenít VERY special to him and he doesnít want to be VERY special to you.

One thing that is interesting is that the "special conversation" took place months before he started to loosen his boundries. So he really didn't tighten any boundries, he has loosened them in the last couple months of sessions. Plus the disclosure are really getting more personal too.

He still keeps his phone boundries very professional. He will not chat with me on the phone, only business, usually making or changing an appointment. He has told me why he isn't so friendly on the phone, and I am okay with it.

> But I think itís inevitable that he will be very special to you. I believe he ought to understand that many clients feel their therapists are very special. I worry about that more than I worry about the 25 minutes chatting after session. It sounds to me as if he isnít aware enough of your likely responses to him.

What do you mean by likely responses? I am not following what you mean. The 25 minutes of chatting come after my session of 50 minutes, which is right before his lunch hour. But he seems to like to keep scheduling for the hour before his lunch, which you know I don't mind one bit.

> UnlessÖ he means that he doesnít want to be VERY special in the sense that he doesnít want to encourage you to think there could be a relationship outside therapy.

In the beginning, and before we saw each other at the gym, he was very clear about the feduciairy relationship between us and that I am not very special to him (like his wife, or daughter, or family). We had this conversation the session after I quit because he said he was good liar. Then I felt bad, and sent him that card. We never talked about the card, but maybe that is what sparked off the I am not very special to him conversation. We haven't had any of the I am not special to him talks for several months. In fact it almost seems like he can't deny those feeling anymore.

> Nevertheless, you have a relationship outside therapy if he chats to you during his lunch hour. But thatís probably as far as heís prepared to go.

You are probably right, about this. He has been a T for a long time and trains other T's too, so unless he is truely in love with me and what to wait the 2 year period, things won't progress past this.

> I am sure youíre right when you think heís probably attracted to you. Iíve never seen you, but I suspect that most men are attracted to you. You have a very appealing sense of humour and honesty that I think almost any (straight) man would find alluring.

Thanks! LOL I am an honest person, maybe too honest, but you don't think gay guys would like me? LOL just kidding, giving you a hard time! :) You know sometime I catch him just looking at me with those bedroom eyes if you know what I mean. Once I looked at him and said" What" , like what are you looking at!

> HOWEVERÖ most therapists simply will not get involved in friendships or romantic relationships with their clients. It would be risking his job if he did. And if heís read the literature, he knows that it would also mean exploiting you because you are vulnerable right now. If he were prepared to exploit you, he wouldnít be the good guy you believe he is.

You are right about this, I wouldn't expect him to ever make a move on me while I am married or while I am currently a client of his. I am not sure about after therapy though.

> On the other handÖ I do believe that there can be real love between a therapist and a client. And also real attraction. Some of it may be transference, but some of it can be real love, attraction and affection.

Thank you for that, I believe it too.

> The challenge in those circumstances is to enjoy the real love for what it is. And believe me, Iím still working on that! My own attempt to solve this is to acknowledge my love for my ex-therapist and try to focus on what I *can* have rather than on what I *canít* have. Itís easier said than done, of course... And itís hard to be satisfied with only part of what you want. But if you can enjoy looking at him in therapy and at the gym, if you can enjoy being the focus of his attention in session, if you can enjoy having sexual fantasies about him, and if you can enjoy some mild flirtation with him (knowing that heís probably interested in you too), then thatís a lot of enjoyment.

Thank you for the letting me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I can't be his true friend or lover, I can at least enjoy what I do share with him. I do have a lot of fun with the fantasies, of course all babblers know that by now. LOL

> Iíve often wished my therapist were so attracted to me that he would throw caution to the wind and risk everything for a couple of hours with me. And of course, in that scenario, he wouldnít regret one second of it. And I curse my average looks and my extra weight and our marriages and his profession and all that stuff.

Hey, I think I am average looks too and overweight and married. He even sees me without my hair done and no makeup at the gym! LOL I guess he is seeing the real me!

> ButÖ I know that even if I were a supermodel he wouldnít f*ck me. And whatís better is that even though Iím not a supermodel, he liked me and enjoyed working with me.

I think being liked for who you are is much more important than someone only liking you for how you look!
> And youíre in an even better situation: you know in your heart that heís attracted to you. Even if heíd never do anything about it, you know heís thought about it. And so you know that itís something of a sacrifice to him to maintain professional boundaries.

I guess I never thought about him struggling with this either. I guess it can go both ways especially since he is also married, and if he knows I like him and he really likes me.

Unfortunately, part of maintaining those boundaries means never telling you if he feels attracted to you. So even if youíre sure itís true, youíll never get him to confess it, and thatís a real bummer.

Yup, a bummer, but I think I don't need him to tell me I think I already know without the words.

> Nevertheless, heís thinking primarily of how to work with you so that you can find lasting happiness in lifeÖ I have no doubt that itís a sacrifice for him not to throw caution to the wind. But in a way itís also the ultimate compliment to you that he doesnít.

You are too funny! I guess I will just have to keep my dreams of him throwing caution to the wind. LOL
Just a nosey question, Tamar, but what is your profession? I think you would make such a great T yourself!
> Just my two cents.

Thanks again for your support and understanding me more than I do myself. I feel much better tonight because of what you said. I guess I just need to treasure what I do have and not worry about it. If it was meant to be, then it will happen, right? :)

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:52:39

In reply to Or have I gotten confused?, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:02:07

I think you are making perfect sense to me, but then what do I know, I am messed up tonight! LOL
You are correct in everything you are saying. Getting involved with me would ruin his marriage(if it is a good one) and effect his career. I don't see doing anything to do that to himself. He has been a T for over 25 years and married almost as long. But I do feel we still have a special connection. Not a love feeling, but a cosmic feeling I can't explain. A lot of weird circumstances have happened between us, it almost feel like we were meant to be drawn together for some purpose, I just don't what. Mabye he is just the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully. I still don't know what it all means. Thanks Dinah! :)

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused?

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:57:08

In reply to Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:52:39

> Mabye he is just the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully.

"Just"???

That sounds pretty cosmic to me. If you say the same sentence without the just

"Mabye he is the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully."

I'd say that is a wonderful way to fully express whatever feelings either of you may have.

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 19:10:21

In reply to Re: Or have I gotten confused?, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:57:08

Sorry, I didn't realize how minializing that sounded. Yes, he is the one who was meant to help me to live my life to the fullest. Does that sound better? Maybe that is what I am feeling mostly.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 19:23:26

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:44:36

Hi Happyflower!

> It is kinda of funny that your post is longer than my record breaking one! LOL

YeahÖ sorry about that. I need to learn to be more concise!

> I think you are right about this, I think he kinda sees me as one his accomplishements too and I think since music is so important to him, having a person who used to think music was my life, start playing again because I feel good, because of his help, has to be an ego booster for him. Most clients you don't get to see proof of the success of therapy. Here he can see it publicly for himself.

Yes, and itís always gratifying to see the results of your work!

> One thing that is interesting is that the "special conversation" took place months before he started to loosen his boundries. So he really didn't tighten any boundries, he has loosened them in the last couple months of sessions. Plus the disclosure are really getting more personal too.

I see what you mean. So perhaps it feels as if he is getting more intimate with you?

> What do you mean by likely responses? I am not following what you mean. The 25 minutes of chatting come after my session of 50 minutes, which is right before his lunch hour. But he seems to like to keep scheduling for the hour before his lunch, which you know I don't mind one bit.

By Ďlikely responsesí I mean that he should know that a person with abuse issues is likely to feel a strong attachment to her therapist; in other words, that you are likely to feel he is very special. I think people with issues that are less personal can sometimes get through therapy without such strong feelings, but it seems to me that anyone with abuse issues is likely to experience very strong feelings about safety and trust, and therapists should probably be aware of that. But I donít know whether the theory that therapists read is explicit about thatÖ

> In the beginning, and before we saw each other at the gym, he was very clear about the feduciairy relationship between us and that I am not very special to him (like his wife, or daughter, or family). We had this conversation the session after I quit because he said he was good liar. Then I felt bad, and sent him that card. We never talked about the card, but maybe that is what sparked off the I am not very special to him conversation. We haven't had any of the I am not special to him talks for several months. In fact it almost seems like he can't deny those feeling anymore.

Well, it seems thereís not much point in having that kind of conversation. If you feel he is very special, then thatís simply how you feel and he has to deal with it. And if he feels you are very special, then thatís simply how he feels and he should take it to consultation with a colleague!

> You are probably right, about this. He has been a T for a long time and trains other T's too, so unless he is truely in love with me and what to wait the 2 year period, things won't progress past this.

The difficult thing is that itís almost impossible to know whether a love affair would survive past the two year period. If you were to do it properly, you shouldnít really have any contact after the end of therapy for two years. But 99 times out of 100 you wonít have the same feelings for him after two years of no contact. The transference that any woman would feel for any man she falls in love with usually wonít survive two years of no contact. Iíve always said I fell in love with my husband the day I met him, but I know it was largely transference and if Iíd had to wait two years I probably would have found someone else (maybe Iím fickle). And if you spend two years waiting for your T and longing for him, itís probably more obsession than love.

> Thanks! LOL I am an honest person, maybe too honest, but you don't think gay guys would like me? LOL just kidding, giving you a hard time! :) You know sometime I catch him just looking at me with those bedroom eyes if you know what I mean. Once I looked at him and said" What" , like what are you looking at!

Yeah, I reckon gay guys would like you too! Just donít count on changing them (LOL!). What did your T say when you caught him looking at you?

> You are right about this, I wouldn't expect him to ever make a move on me while I am married or while I am currently a client of his. I am not sure about after therapy though.

Iíve always thought that if itís meant to be it will work out, and things work out best if you donít try too hard. At the moment there are a lot of things stacked against a relationship. Heís married, youíre married, heís your therapistÖ it couldnít be much harder if he were an alien from another planet. Even after therapy there are a lot of ethical issues. I do think itís possible, but itís by no means easy to establish a friendship (let alone a relationship) after therapy. There are some pretty stiff guidelines. I guess I would say itís probably something you need to talk about in therapy, even though that might feel like youíre making it impossible. One thing I do know is that itís horrible to find after termination that you long for something youíre not getting and you never took the opportunity to talk about it.

> Thank you for the letting me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I can't be his true friend or lover, I can at least enjoy what I do share with him. I do have a lot of fun with the fantasies, of course all babblers know that by now. LOL

Fantasies are for enjoying! Sometimes they can also tell you something about yourself and open up areas of your sexuality that you never thought about beforeÖ I had an incredible fantasy about two men while I was in therapy, which was a real eye opener for me because Iíd always though such ideas were very dangerousÖ

> Hey, I think I am average looks too and overweight and married. He even sees me without my hair done and no makeup at the gym! LOL I guess he is seeing the real me!

The real you is probably what he likes the most!

> Yup, a bummer, but I think I don't need him to tell me I think I already know without the words.

Yes. Itís always nice to hear the words. But if you can know without the words, thatís even better. If someone shows it without words, you know they really mean it.

> Just a nosey question, Tamar, but what is your profession? I think you would make such a great T yourself!

Iím a teacher! I donít think Iíd be a good T. I donít think I could handle all the negative transference stuff. Clients getting angry with meÖ ouch! I take everything very personally. But thank you for the compliment!

> Thanks again for your support and understanding me more than I do myself. I feel much better tonight because of what you said. I guess I just need to treasure what I do have and not worry about it. If it was meant to be, then it will happen, right? :)

Yeah. Treasure what you have. Every moment. The love that happens in therapy is so beautiful and so profoundÖ itís very special. Itís natural to hope for more, but if you can find comfort in what you have, then youíre already doing very well, I think!

Tamar

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:29:01

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

hi happyflower,
I enjoy reading your posts, short or long!

hmmmmm...it does sound like he has interest in you beyond the therapeutic relationship. Whether it's romantic, friendly, or something in-between is hard to say. But it's DEFINITELY more than the typical client!

If it were up to you to decide what happens, what do you most want out of this situation? I know he's cute and attractive, but I believe you've also said that you don't want him to interfere in your "real" life and "real" relationships. Would you want something to happen with him? If something DID happen, what would happen with therapy and with your family life?

Would you be OK with him attending a concert?

It's a very interesting situation!

take care and good luck,
JenStar


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