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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:39:20
I remember when Ms. Lott was here, talking about falling into the trap of wanting to feel special.
And I thought "That will never happen to me. Not with my therapist's strong boundaries. Besides, I have no sexual interest in him."
Well, I still have no sexual interest in him, but the rest of it was sheer arrogance on my part.
I did fall into that trap.
I think I started to relate to him in the way I'm most comfortable relating with "grown ups", especially grown up men. I started to relate to him the way I did with Daddy. I always knew the impulse towards my therapist - at least since Daddy died, but he never gave me an inch to do it before.
I took care of Daddy in some ways so that he would take care of me in the ways I needed. So that he would love me, like he didn't love the rest of the family. Because he appreciated that I loved him, and showed it by taking care of him, and he reciprocated by loving me, and showing it by taking care of me.
That shouldn't be wrong, should it?
Posted by orchid on October 17, 2005, at 17:37:54
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
Everybody wants to feel special to their therapist. Irrespective of sexual attraction or not.
And what you have written about your relationship with your father is perfectly valid. All of us want to go that extra mile to get the affection if it is not offered freely. Kids will go that extra mile to get what they want. Just that every kid shows it in different way - some kids show that they need attention by being sick all the time, some pretend to be indifferent, some rude, some arrogant, some get abusive, some get very polite and nice, some become the woman in the family, some take care of others.
It was not your fault. You just had one of the many coping mechanisms.
Plus, with your T, maybe you ended up developing some of the same feeling - take care of him and try to be extra nice to him and be loyal to him, and hoped that he would reciproacate by treating you special. IT is a trap we all fall into. And then it hurts when it doesn't happen. But guess what, Ts are aware of this attribute, and don't wnat to encourage it, simply becuase it is not good for you in the long run.
Posted by JenStar on October 17, 2005, at 18:50:21
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
hi Dinah,
I don't think it's wrong. Like Orchid said, it's part of normal human nature and it's just something we all do to some extent.The fact is, you *are* special to him in a certain way since you've been together so long, and there's just no getting around that. The sheer amount of time you've had to develop the relationship -- onesided as it may normally be -- does mean that you *probably* mean more to him than the average client.
I think about people I've worked with or been friends with for 5-10 years. I know it's different from therapy, but I feel a certain special affection for people I've known a long time (as long as they're not jerks or a-holes!) that I dont' always feel for short-term friends.
It's going to be strange, maybe, to go back to being "regular" client and T, if you do go back to it. But if you DO go back to it, maybe you can use this in-between kind of time as a learning experience. He can see how you cope in action, how you deal with stress, how you organize -- SEE it rather than just HEAR about it. Hopefully that would strengthen his insight into your behavior and actions and help therapy leap forward in new directions!
He's a good T in general, and you're a smart/cool person. If you both go back to the standard therapy relationship, I have confidence that you'll figure it out again, and re-establish the boundaries. In the meantime, it's sort of a war zone for people affected by the storm. I think if boundaries get in the way of survival, they *need* to come down temporarily.
I hope you're doing OK. Keep us updated!
JenStar
Posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 18:55:41
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
Of course it's not wrong, but natural. The difference right now is that you are not receiving regular, on-going (i.e. weekly) therapy with him. Otherwise, these feelings would be perfect conversation for many many therapy sessions. Rather, you're left holding onto these feelings and not being able to discuss them. And on top of that painful aspect of your current relationship, his boundaries have slipped, adding to your confusion.
I like what everyone else said. Especially lining up 20 therapists and picking which ones to interview ... in the line-up, they should be expected to utter a few phrases, such as "We seem to be running out of time today" or "What are you thinking about?" ... just to know if we like their tone.
It sounds like today's e-mail was more comforting to you. I'm glad.
Have you ever heard the song from the soundtrack "Avenue Q" ... "It sucks to be me"? It would bring a smile to your face.
Annie
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
In reply to Re: Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc. » Dinah, posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 18:55:41
This is sort of what happened. I don't know, does this mean I can do it without him?
I went from feeling angry at him to realizing the contribution I made to the problem and my reasons for contributing to it.
Ok, I still think his part of it is funny (at least today I do), but I am beginning to consider my own part in it.
I appreciate you guys, and your confidence that we can one day get back to something approximating normal. I am facing the fact that it won't be easy if he redraws the boundaries, along with the terror that he'll never have the chance.
Annierose, I sure feel that way sometimes. But then I look around me and realize how really fortunate I am. Then I get mad that *this* is fortunate nowadays. What's the world coming to when you can't even have a good wallowing in self pity because you know your neighbors have it ever ever ever so much worse.
Posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 20:58:38
In reply to I miss therapy :(, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
You are doing without him! But of course you miss him and look forward to your sessions and your e-mails and hope that it can go back to some sort of "normal". Grieving. Grieving so much of what you lost, material and otherwise.
My T always reminds me you can't compare suffering, pain ... whatever label you want to put on it. Everyone deserves to feel better in his or her own life. Everyone deserves to feel loved, understood and apprepriated. And when we make ourselves stronger, we can help lift up those around us, especially our children and our husbands (on occasion).
I hope you don't blame yourself for anything. You were both in the midst of a wide-scale natural diaster. Talking about shaking up the theraputic framework. Everything changed and is still changing.
Go ahead and wallow. But I'm still glad that you thought his part in it was "funny" ... that means you had a smile on your face for at least a little bit.
Posted by fallsfall on October 18, 2005, at 7:22:27
In reply to I miss therapy :(, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
Yes, you did have a part in the boundaries coming down. But so did he.
And it was his job to keep the boundaries up. Don't discount his responsibility here.
It is always good to see our own contributions, but just because you contributed, that doesn't let him off the hook.
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 13:17:14
In reply to Re: I miss therapy :( » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 18, 2005, at 7:22:27
It looks like involuntary termination.
I think I'm going to tell him not to contact me anymore until our meeting, which I expect will last about five minutes as he tells me he won't be available to see me anymore.
Life s*cks.
It wasn't supposed to be like this. He was supposed to be forever therapy.
I don't know what to do.
I swing back and forth so. One minute I'm looking up gun dealers, the next minute I'm thinking that I'd be ok without him. I've been ok these three weeks, right? But I haven't been ok.
I want to tell him I don't want to do the sixth even. But then I vear towards wanting to keep the appointment and make him pay for hurting me so. (No, Dr. Bob, I'm not threatening violence toward him. No need to call the police.)
I hate this. I hate him.
Posted by JenStar on October 18, 2005, at 14:11:41
In reply to sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger., posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 13:17:14
hi Dinah,
I'm glad that even if you waver sometimes, you always make the "right" decision -- aka avoiding the gun dealers, and doing what it takes to keep yourself healthy and HERE.I'm really glad about that, because even though I know Babble might not be the biggest or most important part of your life, YOU are very important here!
I think you're a wonderful, valuable person and I'm glad that you're here and that you're struggling through all this, even though it sucks.
You WILL be OK in time. It WILL get better. :)
JenStar
Posted by Annierose on October 18, 2005, at 14:25:15
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » Dinah, posted by JenStar on October 18, 2005, at 14:11:41
I wish I knew how to comfort you. But you have survived without him for more than 3 weeks. You really lost your regular on-going support on August 29th, so you are far stronger than you realize.
What changed today? Have you receive an e-mail today from him? Has T3 gotten back with you regarding a referral or rather, she can see you?
You are so valuable. Hold your son in your arms tonight (if he still lets you). Remember how much he needs his mommy, just like you need your mommy-therapist. Yes, he really feels that attached to YOU! And he thinks you're the perfect mommy for him!
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 17:25:07
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger., posted by Annierose on October 18, 2005, at 14:25:15
All that really happened was what he didn't say. He didn't give the reassurance I requested, as he normally has no trouble doing. In fact, he went to a fair amount of verbal gymnastics not to give it.
So I'm assuming that means he can't give it.
I'm trying to remember that you can get through the pain. That it's like any other relationship that ends painfully. It feels like you'll never get over it, but you will. And I've got my son, and my husband, etc. But that's easier to remember once the Risperdal kicks in.
Posted by orchid on October 18, 2005, at 17:32:56
In reply to I guess mood swings are comparatively normal, posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 17:25:07
Somehow I have a really strong feeling that what happened with your T will end up being a good thing.
I had been recently feeling, you had reached a plateau with him. And it was time to let go and move on.
Even though he was safe to hold on to, I think it wasn't helping you as much as it should have been.
New life and change is always hard to adjust to, and looks threatening in the beginning, but you might just be glad few months down the line for the way things turned out to be. You might emerge into a more happier and peaceful person.
Just hang in there.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2005, at 17:59:38
In reply to Blessing in Disguise » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 18, 2005, at 17:32:56
Oh, Dinah- this is awfully hard after ten years. Is he actually settling someplace far away from you? Has he decided to give up being a therapist altogether? Painful as it would be, I do think at least a few sessions to help terminate would be better than such an abrupt ending.
Posted by gardenergirl on October 18, 2005, at 23:06:51
In reply to I guess mood swings are comparatively normal, posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 17:25:07
I think mood swings are very normal in a time like that.
And I really do think you're going to be okay. You've got some good coping strategies. Reminding yourself of what you do have, and that pain passes (or at least waxes and wanes?) are very good ways to cope.
(((dinah)))
Please keep letting us know how we can help.
Oh, and I need to reply to your last email...I will. Promise.
gg
Posted by cricket on October 19, 2005, at 7:36:58
In reply to sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger., posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 13:17:14
(((((Dinah)))))
It is so hard. It's hard under normal circumstances when we feel rejected by our therapists and now to add it to everything else you are dealing with.
I wish I could just snap my fingers and take you back to before the storm.
But maybe some good can come out of all of this upheaval.
My therapist said to me yesterday, "Can't you believe that good can come from change?"
It's hard to believe it sometimes, but in your case Dinah I will. I'll hold onto the belief that things can get better for you.
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:25:58
In reply to Blessing in Disguise » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 18, 2005, at 17:32:56
For me abandonments are never blessings, disguised or not.
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:34:20
In reply to Re: Blessing in Disguise, posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2005, at 17:59:38
My best evidence that he's planning to abandon me completely is his refusal to say he isn't, when normally he has no problem with that. He's totally avoiding that. He won't say he *is* but then again he probably wouldn't do that in email anyway. We have an agreement that he's to arrange for hospitalization for me if he ever terminates me, and he can't do that long distance.
I'm going to have my husband drop me off and pick me up from my appointment, so that he can bring me to the hospital if I find it necessary. And I'll be full of Risperdal with maybe a dash of Klonopin too.
I don't know what's going on with him. The last I heard his plans were to be in the city one day a week, commuting from the place he moved three hours away. And that I could drive to see him there as well. Then suddenly he had an opportunity to leave town for a month on work, and did. And since then I have no idea what his plans are. I'm not sure he does either.
But his chatty news involved stories of meeting with the consulting firm he travels for, and I have no idea what his wife thinks of travel, except that she apparently doesn't mind it as much as I do.
I don't think I want any termination sessions. In fact I'm sure I wouldn't. My fury would get in the way of any productive work being done. It would be nice if I could blame circumstances, and not him. But I'm not that nice. Once he announces the intent to abandon, he has effectively ceased to be my therapist, in my eyes. How can you even have termination sessions with someone who abandoned you?
I hope it doesn't come to that. Even if it's just that he agrees to see me whenever he's in town, it won't feel like such an abandonment.
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:36:46
In reply to Re: I guess mood swings are comparatively normal » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on October 18, 2005, at 23:06:51
I'm kind of hoping it passes. Waxing and waning hurts, and you don't even know how to prepare for it. Eventually, I hope it passes.
Even if it turns out that he's just being a mess rather than trying not to tell me he's terminating me, I hope that I use this opportunity to learn never to rely on anyone again. I hope I can break the bonds of trust.
It's just that it would be easier to learn that slowly, and at my speed.
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:44:00
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » Dinah, posted by cricket on October 19, 2005, at 7:36:58
I hope so. I don't see any way right now, but I hope so.
T3 has agreed to see me on a short term basis. She says we'll evaluate long term as we go along.
I like her, she seems intuitive and sensible, and she's a bit older than me, which I think is sort of important. That'll make finding therapists harder as I get older. :)
But there are drawbacks. I don't like the insistence on short term. I understand why. She doesn't know me. Neither of us knows T1's plans. She is understandably cautious and wants an out.
But it just seems like more uncertainty in an already uncertain life. Not that I very well might not decide I don't like her anyway. But still...
And I suspect she thinks I can do without therapy and wants to convince me of that.
Oh, and she travels a lot. :))
Still, I like her, and I'm not up to another search right now. It's too soon that I hear my therapist's plans.
Posted by orchid on October 19, 2005, at 12:10:58
In reply to I could never see it that way. » orchid, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:25:58
Don't think of it as an abondonment.
Think of it more in terms of growing up and leaving home.
Posted by cricket on October 19, 2005, at 13:25:46
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » cricket, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:44:00
>
> Still, I like her, and I'm not up to another search right now. It's too soon that I hear my therapist's plans.I sure hope he has some solid concrete plans to tell you. Is that definite? Or are you just hoping that?
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 14:21:52
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » Dinah, posted by cricket on October 19, 2005, at 13:25:46
I've always known he was the most disorganized man alive. It's just worse under these conditions.
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 14:22:30
In reply to Re: I could never see it that way. » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 19, 2005, at 12:10:58
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 19, 2005, at 14:48:37
In reply to I guess I don't know for sure » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:34:20
Gosh, Dinah, this sounds so complicated. The one thing you can count on is seeing him (at his old office?) one time a week? And, IF he is not away on business, one additional time three hours a way? It sounds as though he is not able to think of his patients in as professional a way as he usually would now. Has he lost his house, which I know is not too far from yours? I'm feeling that immediate financial issues may be crucial to him.
Posted by Annierose on October 19, 2005, at 16:47:28
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » cricket, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2005, at 10:44:00
I am happy to read that T3 will at least see you short term. You know how these short term relationships often end up .... 10 years later :-)
When I started back with my current T (21 months ago), I really thought I was just going back to finally say "good-bye". I had quit mid-session, and I was curious to see her again. I never imagined myself back, full tilt, and experiencing all this stuff with her ... AGAIN! AT least, I now have the strength to actually address our relationship and how it affects me.
I hope she gets to know you. And I hope you feel comfortable with her, comfortable enough to talk about your main T. Your relationship with him is very important to you, therefore important to discuss. When do you see her next?
My girlfriend is heading towards New Orleans to help her sister sort out her house, clean, organize and have a good cry.
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