Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 566596

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

fear of intimacy

Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:37:32

We have a fear of intimacy because we have a fear of abandonment, betrayal, and rejection. We have these fears because we were wounded in early childhood - we experienced feeling emotionally abandoned, rejected, and betrayed by our parents because they were wounded. They did not have healthy relationship with self - they were codependents who abandoned and betrayed themselves - and their behavior caused us to feel unworthy and unlovable.

"We exited the warm nurturing cocoon of our incubator into a cold, harsh world. A world run by Higher Powers (parents and any body else bigger than us - siblings, grandparents, hospital or orphanage personnel) who were wounded in their childhood. Gods who were not emotionally healthy, and did not know how to Love themselves. Our egos were traumatized - and adapted programming to try to protect us from the pain of emotional trauma that felt life threatening.
The people we Loved the most - our Higher Powers - hurt us the most. Our emotional intimacy issues were caused by, our fear of intimacy is a direct result of, our early childhood experiences. Our lives have been lived in reaction to the intellectual paradigms our egos adapted to deal with emotional trauma.

The part of a child's brain that is logical and rational, that understands abstract concepts (like time or death), that can have any kind of an objective perspective on self or life, does not develop until about the age of 7 (the age of reason.) As little children we were completely ego-centric and magical thinking. We did not have the capacity to understand that our Higher Powers were not perfect. We watched their role modeling, experienced their behavior as personal, and felt the emotional currents of our environments - worry, frustration, resentment, fear, anger, pain, shame, etc. - and were emotionally traumatized.

Our ego adapted itself to the environment it was experiencing. It developed emotional and behavioral defense systems in reaction to the emotional pain we experienced growing up with parents who were wounded codependents.

If you have ever wondered why it is so much easier to feel Spiritual in relationship to nature or animals, here is your answer. It was people who wounded us in childhood. It is people who our egos developed defense systems to protect us from.

If one is going to live in isolation on a mountain top meditating, it will be fairly easy to feel Spiritually connected. It is relating to other human beings that is messy."

Relating to animals or nature is safe because we will not be judged. Our pet will not abandon us because we are inherently defective. Nature will not reject us because we are personally shameful. People will - or at least it feels like that is what has happened in the past.
The Truth is that the ways that our parents treated us in childhood did not have anything to do with who we are - was not really personal. They were incapable of seeing themselves clearly. They certainly could not see us clearly - could not see our unique individuality from a perspective that allowed them to honor and respect us as beings separate from them. Their perspective of us was filtered through a prism of their own shame and woundedness. They projected their hopes and dreams, their fears and insecurities onto us. They saw us as the fix for their feelings of unworthiness, an extension of them that gave their life meaning - or perhaps they saw us as an inconvenience and a burden holding them back, preventing them from making their dreams come true. For some of us, a parent(s) was so caught up in their alcoholism or survival drama or career that most of the time they didn't see us at all.

And both our parents and society taught us very clearly - through direct messages and role modeling - to be dishonest. Our parents taught us that keeping up appearances, worrying about what the neighbors think, was more important than our feelings - because it was so important to them. Or, some of us experienced a parent who went to the other extreme, where they acted like they didn't care what anyone thought - which caused us to feel embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior because it was so out of balance, and caused us to worry about what the neighbors thought. They taught us to give power to other people by wearing masks and keeping secrets.

Even more importantly, our role models taught us to be emotionally dishonest. Because it wasn't safe to be emotionally honest we lost our self - did not know how to be emotionally intimate with our self, and instead constructed a false self image to survive. We learned to wear different masks for different people.

As children we were incapable of seeing ourselves as separate from our families - of knowing we had worth as individuals apart from our families. The reality we grew up in was the only reality that we knew. We thought our parents behavior reflected our worth - the same way that our codependent parents thought our behavior was a factor in rather they had worth.

"We live in a society where the emotional experience of "love" is conditional on behavior. Where fear, guilt, and shame are used to try to control children's behavior because parents believe that their children's behavior reflects their self-worth.

In other words, if little Johnny is a well-behaved, "good boy," then his parents are good people. If Johnny acts out, and misbehaves, then there is something wrong with his parents. ("He doesn't come from a good family.")

What the family dynamics research shows is that it is actually the good child - the family hero role - who is the most emotionally dishonest and out of touch with him/herself, while the acting-out child - the scapegoat - is the most emotionally honest child in the dysfunctional family. Backwards again.

In a Codependent society we are taught, in the name of "love," to try to control those we love, by manipulating and shaming them, to try to get them to do the right things - in order to protect our own ego-strength. Our emotional experience of love is of something controlling: "I love you if you do what I want you to do." Our emotional experience of love is of something that is shaming and manipulative and abusive.

Love that is shaming and abusive is an insane, ridiculous concept. Just as insane and ridiculous as the concept of murder and war in the name of God.

Rather our parents made us their reason for living - which is a form of toxic love in which the child is the drug of choice (causing a child to feel responsible for an adult's self worth is emotionally incestuous and abusive); or a burden to be carried, the scapegoat they blamed for ruining their lives; or treated us like we were an inconvenience in the moments when they even seemed aware of us; it wounded us. We felt betrayed - by our own unworthiness, because we were incapable of knowing they were not perfect. We felt abandoned and rejected by the gods in our lives.

We were wounded in our first relationships with other people. We were tiny, innocent, little beings who were completely dependent upon wounded people who did not Love themselves - and therefore were incapable of Loving us in a healthy way.

Feeling unlovable to the gods in our lives as tiny children was life threatening. It felt life threatening.

Our fear of intimacy is based upon painful, traumatic experience.

in to me see
The simplest and most understandable way I have ever heard intimacy described is by breaking the word down: in to me see. That is what intimacy is about - allowing another person to see into us, sharing who we are with another person.
Sharing who we are is a problem for codependents because at the core of our relationship with ourselves is the feeling that we are somehow defective, unlovable and unworthy - because of our childhood emotional trauma. Codependency is rooted in our ego programming from early childhood. That programming is a defense that the ego adapted to help us survive. It is based upon the feeling that we are shameful, that we are defective, unworthy, and unlovable. Our codependent defense system is an attempt to protect us from being rejected, betrayed, and abandoned because of our unworthy, shameful being.

We have a fear of intimacy because we were wounded, emotionally traumatized, in early childhood - felt rejected and abandoned - and then grew up in emotional dishonest societies that did not provide tools for healing, or healthy role models to teach us how to overcome that fear. Our wounding in early childhood caused us to feel that something was wrong with our being - toxic shame - and our societal and parental role models taught us to keep up appearances, to hide our shamefulness from others.


some interesting thoughts...
http://joy2meu.com/Fear_of_Intimacy.html


 

Re: fear of intimacy

Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:52:44

In reply to fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:37:32

grieving... grieving... when does the grieving stop?

and why...

why can't i just dissociate from it if i'm supposed to be so damned good at that?

i don't understand.

i need to put this away
i need to function
i've been a real mess this week
:-(

how do i put it away?????

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on October 13, 2005, at 21:23:26

In reply to fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:37:32

Maybe the fear is justified?

Maybe we're scared of being close because we're scared of trusting, because we know we'll be let down.

Because in the end everyone does let you down. Everyone leaves or dies. And everyone ends up hurting you unless you just don't give a rat's *ss.

So it's healthier, maybe, not to give a rat's *ss.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » Dinah

Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 21:28:44

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 13, 2005, at 21:23:26

> Maybe the fear is justified?
> Maybe we're scared of being close because we're scared of trusting, because we know we'll be let down.
> Because in the end everyone does let you down. Everyone leaves or dies. And everyone ends up hurting you unless you just don't give a rat's *ss.

yes. needs conflict. it is inevitable.

> So it's healthier, maybe, not to give a rat's *ss.

i wish we could, i wish we could :-(
but the fact is...
we are social animals
and we can't stay in a state of removed detachedness and uncaring forever :-(
in fact...
we might feel removed and detached...
but we still have needs and we still care
no matter how much we protest that we do not.

and then there is the point...

that other people need things from us too...

:-(

i'm sorry :-(

 

Re: fear of intimacy

Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 21:32:41

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 21:28:44

though of course some people don't seem to give a rats *ss.

but we typically think of them as pathological too.

and the people who don't care...
don't seem to be able to empathise with others hurts
don't seem to mind hurting others.

so maybe if you don't feel hurt then you are more likely to produce hurts for others.

but then hurting tends to hurt others too
as people become solely focused on their own hurts

sometimes it feels...

like life just is too painful :-(

no matter how you look at it

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on October 13, 2005, at 21:57:55

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 21:32:41

When T2 asked me what I thought I had accomplished with ten years of therapy, that's what I answered. I used to really not care in any significant way, except maybe for a dog or two here and there. I had walled myself off from pain and taken a very rational view of relationships. I didn't really give a rat's *ss.

And therapy taught me to care again, to feel again. To want relationships as something other than logical mutually beneficial relationships. To feel like the payoff was worth the risk of pain.

Now it feels like a cruel joke.

 

Re: fear of intimacy

Posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 22:10:23

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 13, 2005, at 21:57:55

(((((Dinah)))))

i think...

thats how i feel at the moment too :-(

have to go because office is full of people wondering what i'm up to...

post tomorrow

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Damos on October 14, 2005, at 3:55:09

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:52:44

> grieving... grieving... when does the grieving stop?
>
> and why...
>
> why can't i just dissociate from it if i'm supposed to be so damned good at that?
>
> i don't understand.
>
> i need to put this away
> i need to function
> i've been a real mess this week
> :-(
>
> how do i put it away?????

Honestly, I'm not sure it really ever does. I think other things come along that take your focus of it and let it settle to the back of your mind. If you're lucky a new connection/bond/love/attachment comes along that makes the pain and sence of loss seem less severe. But every now and then something will set it off and it'll come to the front of mind again. I really struggle with making sense of the loss of connections. It's hard. Wish I could help.

Feeling for you.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by kerria on October 14, 2005, at 11:27:33

In reply to fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 20:37:32

(((((((Alexandra))))))))

Thank you for posting, you are brave to think out why intimacy is so hard
It's so true, relationships with people are always messy, we can't go there, it's so difficult.
happy with hiking in the woods and my pets. Why we're so devatated when they die and leave us.

i hope that you have a good week at work. i wish you peace and wish there was something i could say to help and to comfort you. i'm in the same place.
safe hugs.

your friend,
kerria

 

Re: fear of intimacy

Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 18:44:00

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 13, 2005, at 22:10:23

>You can see the beauty of a flower and it’s so much more beautiful and precious simply because it doesn’t last forever. Or you can focus on its ending and feel bereft.

hmm.

i guess...
it is hard when people go.
especially when you need them.
but...
if i had to choose between never having had that sense of connection to them (and thus being oblivious to their leaving) or having that sense of connection to them and losing that (and suffering as a consequence) i guess...

i'd choose the latter.

because it hurts when you look at it one way. when you miss them. when you wish they were still there.

because it still is a wonderful thing when you look at it another way. how you felt when they were there. how you still feel good in remembering them.

better to have loved and lost....

though it can be hard to not get lost in the pain at times...

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Dinah on October 16, 2005, at 15:20:15

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy, posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2005, at 18:44:00

I'm not sure about the loved and lost idea. It's a lot easier for my dogs, because it's so uncomplicated. Of course I'd rather have loved and lost because there is no betrayal or abandonment, except in the broadest terms. But when the losing is mixed in with abandonment and anger and all those things... I think I'd have rather never to have loved at all.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » Dinah

Posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2005, at 16:18:03

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on October 16, 2005, at 15:20:15

> I'm not sure about the loved and lost idea. It's a lot easier for my dogs, because it's so uncomplicated. Of course I'd rather have loved and lost because there is no betrayal or abandonment, except in the broadest terms.

yes. its easier to be spiritual around nature including animals) because we don't worry about nature judging us or thinking badly of us.

pets don't abandon or reject.

>But when the losing is mixed in with abandonment and anger and all those things... I think I'd have rather never to have loved at all.

it is hard...

i remember talking to a therapist about my father leaving. i said 'i can't change the facts - but i can change the interpretation of the facts'. it is a fact that he left. i would have lost contact with reality if i ever managed to believe that that wasn't true. but it is not a fact... *why* he left.

did he get sick of me?
did he not care for me?
did he intend to abandon me?
didn't he consider my needs?

the way in which we interpret the situation
the way we perceive the situation to be

affects how we feel.
whether it is incredably painful or what.

but the memory...

when i feel love i feel happy in that
secure
and it just comes naturally to spread that around
and things don't seem so painful
i don't feel so alone.

but i felt loved as a kid. i felt that he did love me.

and things changed and he left for whatever reason

but for many years i believed in his love
remembered him well

but over time... i came to doubt that he ever really cared. i started to wonder why he left. and that kind of perverts it. and it is more painful than it has to be.

i think...
people will always grieve at times.

but for me, the connections are what makes life worth living. if i never felt that at all... i think i would feel a bit sad for the person who never experienced that. it is painful at times. when i think i need someone... when i start to doubt the gift they did give me... when i start to doubt their intentions...

but the connection..
was a beautiful thing and it still is
i need those
and i want to try and remember to be more open to them
even brief moments with random strangers

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Damos on October 16, 2005, at 19:37:44

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2005, at 16:18:03

Sometimes it's the hurt that gives me the hope I need. And someimes the hope is all we've got. Like you say. It's got to get better, it just has to.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » Damos

Posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2005, at 21:33:59

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on October 16, 2005, at 19:37:44

> It's got to get better, it just has to.

Or maybe...

Things are okay just as they are.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Damos on October 16, 2005, at 23:44:34

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2005, at 21:33:59

> Or maybe...
>
> Things are okay just as they are.

Yep, maybe they are. Guess maybe it's just hard to see that sometimes.

 

Re: fear of intimacy » Damos

Posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2005, at 0:19:24

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on October 16, 2005, at 23:44:34


> Yep, maybe they are. Guess maybe it's just hard to see that sometimes.

Yeah. Can be real hard.

(I'm sorry I haven't responded to your post on writing yet. i was glad you posted it :-) thanks for that, it is interesting. ive just been rushed off my feet.... - and getting a bit caught up in admin 'dispute' )

talk to you soon :-)

 

Re: fear of intimacy » alexandra_k

Posted by Damos on October 17, 2005, at 1:08:06

In reply to Re: fear of intimacy » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2005, at 0:19:24

No need to apologise. You've had a lot of your own stuff going on, and then all this 'other' stuff over Friday, the weekend and today. You've been fighting the good fight kiddo and I'm so very, very proud to have a friend like you. You just do what you need to do for you okay, first and always.


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