Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 564066

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

A Question and a big ***trigger***

Posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

This involves cutting so if you cannot read this post I understand. My therapist has asked me many times what cutting does for me. I am not sure, but I get the feeling that my answer is not something that she is used to. I am going to say it here...the answer is that when I cut it totally clears my mind. Initially I focus on the injury I have inflicted. I am careful because I do not want to waste time in the hospital. After the wound is cared for my mind has cleared considerably and I can take care of the things that need to be done. Eventually I start ruminating again and my mind becomes so unbelievably cluttered I will do it again. Somtimes I go quite awhile before my mind becomes so over taxed and then I will repeat this cycle. I am trying very hard not to do it, and to find other ways to clear my mind. It has been at least 6 weeks that I have not done it. What I would like to know is: Do aother self-injurers know why they cut? and if so can you tell me why? I know this is very personal stuff so if I get no answers I wll understand. I am not even sure if I am allowed to post this here. terrics

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger*** » terrics

Posted by orchid on October 7, 2005, at 14:26:45

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

Hi Terrics,

One thing I know is most of the times, cutting is either a way to exert some control or an outlet to pain, or a way of self punishment.

I haven't really cut myself - I tried it once a long time ago - but that was because I was hurting too much because of my husband's behavior and I wanted him to understand how much it hurt me. But even that, I would say, was only to threaten him, and not really to cut myself.

But from what you have said, it seems to me, that you are viewing cutting as a form of "clearing yourself out". You have said that cutting gives you relief and a clean feeling. I think you seek to express your mental pain in some form of physical pain. And that gives your mental suffering an outlet for some time and clears your mind. It also probably gives you a feeling, that you have some control over something atleast in your life.

I would suggest try some alternatives to cutting to express your mental pain. As I said to Daisy a while back, buy a punching bag and punch it so that your hands hurt a little and you feel somepain in your hands. That will most likely serve as a good substitute and will serve as an outlet for your pain.

If you think you are cutting to exert some control over something - it is a little harder to do. Usually it is hard to do something positive.. but maybe buying play dough and building somethign with it, and then smashing it might help. Or buy building blocks, build something and then destroy it.

I actually don't know if these are prescribed methods or if it would help, but I think it might help. You can perhaps ask your therapist on what other ways you can take out your pain without causing real damage to anything.

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***

Posted by Sonya on October 7, 2005, at 14:31:22

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

Up until two years ago it was inconceivable to me why anyone would cut themselves. But two years ago I went through a brief period of scratching (enough to scar) and self-bruising. I did this to relieve the intense internal pressure and frustration I felt. It amazed me that I'd feel relieved after performing these acts. I don't know why this phase passed. I can understand what you're going through. I'm sorry you're going through this, and I hope you get better. Are you on any meds? Seeing a therapist?

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***

Posted by Sonya on October 7, 2005, at 14:32:33

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

I'm sorry I didn't read you're post carefully, and that you are already seeing a T. That's a very good thing. Be well.

 

My answer... *** BIG TRIGGER *** » terrics

Posted by greyskyeyes on October 7, 2005, at 15:14:33

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

Sigh... yeah, this is tough stuff to talk about. But it's good to bring it out in the open. It helps to understand it in both yourself and others; understanding brings with it the tools to eventually overcome it. So... here goes:

(THIS IS GRAPHIC SO *PLEASE* DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE TRIGGERED BY SI)

I scratch, enough to cause severe welts and occasionally enough to draw blood.
I hit myself/ throw myself into things, enough to cause massive bruises.
I occasionally bang my head into things/ whack my head with things.
Finally crossed the line and cut myself with a knife last weekend. :(

Why?? Generally one of two reasons.
#1: I am under severe emotional stress. Emotions are so powerful they are threatening to overwhelm me and I cannot deal with them anymore; the pain calms me down and provides a physical distraction. I can be hysterical/ screaming/ incoherent and the pain immediately causes me to become lucid.
#2: I am so overwhelmed with emotion that I retreat almost completely into my head; everything sort of goes numb - sort of a dissociation. But at the back of my mind I am aware vaguely that something is not right. Sudden pain brings me back to myself - makes the whole world 'real' for me again.

What scares me is that, instead of getting better, my SI seems to be escalating in severity. It happens less often, but the intensity is picking up. The knife episode scared me. I just stood there, fascinated by the fact that I was bleeding, until my husband tackled me (really, literally)... then I saw drops all over the kitchen floor and just thought, wow. Later though... yeah, I freaked out over the fact that I did that. Still can't bring myself to pick up a (sharp) knife.

Can't really offer any insight for you, I'm afraid. I hope my disclosure helps you. And, I understand. Man do I understand. It's tough as hell. :(

~ grey

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***,long ans. » terrics

Posted by muffled on October 7, 2005, at 15:29:53

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

> This involves cutting so if you cannot read this post I understand. My therapist has asked me many times what cutting does for me. I am not sure, but I get the feeling that my answer is not something that she is used to. I am going to say it here...the answer is that when I cut it totally clears my mind. Initially I focus on the injury I have inflicted. I am careful because I do not want to waste time in the hospital. After the wound is cared for my mind has cleared considerably and I can take care of the things that need to be done. Eventually I start ruminating again and my mind becomes so unbelievably cluttered I will do it again. Somtimes I go quite awhile before my mind becomes so over taxed and then I will repeat this cycle. I am trying very hard not to do it, and to find other ways to clear my mind. It has been at least 6 weeks that I have not done it. What I would like to know is: Do aother self-injurers know why they cut? and if so can you tell me why? I know this is very personal stuff so if I get no answers I wll understand. I am not even sure if I am allowed to post this here. terrics

yeah. i'm a cutter. Been doing it off and on for alot of years. Right this very moment I'm doing the 15 minute thing so I won't do it. Don't worry, your post didn't trigger me, I was already doing the 15 min. thing. There are some very good websites about cutting, but you've proly already found them.
Your answer is not at all unusual. That is one of my primary reasons for cutting. My T. calls it being overwhelmed. I do it for other reasons too. To feel tough, like I can take any kind of pain. Sometimes I do it to punish myself for being such an idiot. Sometimes just to express visually the pain I'm feeling inside.
The severity varies too. Sometimes I take ASA so it will bleed more freely with less damage. Sometimes the blood is important, other times not. What I hate most are the scars. I hate lying to my kids about what the marks on me are. I am ashamed of doing something so gross.
But I am working on it. Right now I'm kinda stressed about 'stuff' and I think thats why I wanto SI. Partly mad at myself and partly feeling overwhelmed. I am trying to learn how better to deal with these feelings. I didn't even used to be able to know this much. So I think I am moving(agonizingly slowly) in the right direction.
Hope this isn't too long. Sorry.
Muffled.

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger*** » terrics

Posted by fairywings on October 7, 2005, at 15:52:21

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

Like muffled said there are some good sites with good information about SI. I didn't know, until this year that ppl did stuff other than cut, like grey was saying. The head banging and bruising, hair pulling, skin picking.

I don't SI anymore, I did it as a teen, when things were at there worst. I felt trapped, and overwhelmingly angry. It didn't clear my mind, but it did get rid of some of the anger, but then it just made me more sad and self loathing, so it was really a vicious cycle for me.

fw

 

Re: I really good question ***trigger*** » terrics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 7, 2005, at 18:04:34

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

hey there. i don't si anymore, but i used to...

it used to be thought (and this is the really big ****trigger***** for me...) it used to be thought that si was a manipulative / attention seeking gesture.

but that does little more than encourage clinicians and others to be judgemental about it...

so then Linehan (and others too i suppose...) thought that it might actually be worth ASSESSING the reasons for si, and the best way to do that might be to actually ASK people why they did it and actually LISTEN respectfully to what they say rather than to say that the 'REAL REASONS' (ie that of manipulating and attention seeing) have just been repressed or whatever...

And what they found...
Is that people si for a variety of reasons.

Here are a few that i remember...
(and i'm sure you can find more by doing a google search)

- punishment. some people feel 'evil' or 'bad' and si helps them to feel 'clean' or 'pure' or like the evil has been purged or something like that.

- expression of pain. some people feel like there is so much pain inside them and what is hard is that others can't see that. like when you bang your leg and it hurts so damned much and there isn't so much as a mark on it. not even a bruise or anything like that. and that can be so damned frustrating (because you get much more sympathy if the injury is visible). so sometimes physical injury is a way of trying to show other people that the pain is legitimate. it is an understandable thing.

- to regulate intense emotions. and i'm wondering if your 'to clear the mind' thing might be a little similar to this. i used to get such intense emotional states that i thought i was going to die. or that i would do anything, anything at all to make it stop. and sometimes i get voices screaming at me and the same goes. i would do anything to make it stop. and si used to help quiet the voices. or to still the emotion.

- to bring me back. in the face of dissociation. physical pain would help to ground me in my body and that would counter the emotional pain which was removing me from it. because sometimes i'm terrified of dissociating. i'm terrified of what they might do.

and there are more reasons...

some theorists noted that si gets the endorphins (the bodies natural opiates) going. that that goes some way towards explaining why it is that after si people tend to feel more relaxed and at peace and almost good. almost in a good mood.

i have heard many suggestions of alternative activities... i think you need as many suggestions as possible. because some of the alternatives are only genuine alternatives insofar as they serve the FUNCTION of si. and different people have different functions for that. so, for example, i have heard of holding a cube of ice tightly in your hand until it melts. if the pain sensation is the function of the si then that should work fairly well as a good substitute. but if having a visible reason for the pain is the function then such a replacement would be inadequate...

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***

Posted by rubenstein on October 7, 2005, at 18:48:37

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

> To punish myself
and to take care of things afterwards
it seems as if there is an ending to the issue if I cut
but its not working anymore
and I keep going deeper into the whole
and having to cut deeper to make it work
I really hope I can stop the cycle

best wishes to you
its so hard isn't it?
rach


This involves cutting so if you cannot read this post I understand. My therapist has asked me many times what cutting does for me. I am not sure, but I get the feeling that my answer is not something that she is used to. I am going to say it here...the answer is that when I cut it totally clears my mind. Initially I focus on the injury I have inflicted. I am careful because I do not want to waste time in the hospital. After the wound is cared for my mind has cleared considerably and I can take care of the things that need to be done. Eventually I start ruminating again and my mind becomes so unbelievably cluttered I will do it again. Somtimes I go quite awhile before my mind becomes so over taxed and then I will repeat this cycle. I am trying very hard not to do it, and to find other ways to clear my mind. It has been at least 6 weeks that I have not done it. What I would like to know is: Do aother self-injurers know why they cut? and if so can you tell me why? I know this is very personal stuff so if I get no answers I wll understand. I am not even sure if I am allowed to post this here. terrics

 

***trigger*** » rubenstein

Posted by muffled on October 7, 2005, at 22:00:01

In reply to Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by rubenstein on October 7, 2005, at 18:48:37

> > To punish myself
> and to take care of things afterwards
> it seems as if there is an ending to the issue if I cut
> but its not working anymore
> and I keep going deeper into the whole
> and having to cut deeper to make it work
> I really hope I can stop the cycle
>
> best wishes to you
> its so hard isn't it?
> rach
>
>
>I guess you must have a T and your working on stuff eh? I cut, but mostly there is some control. This sounds so awful, but its been so useful to me. Its the aspirin thing. More blood, less wound. Try not to go too deep cuz you get nerve damage and its really annoying. Explaining the scars sucks. There are alternatives to cutting, but I'm not qualified to speak on that at this time. All I can say is to try really hard to find other things if you can. Sometimes I do 15 mins at a time. If you goto do it, try to keep it small, and hopefully not too deep. Go slow. Slow as you can. Then you might stop with less damage. I see the blood as evidence I have done my job and can stop. Then I feel bad later. I feel ashamed. I wished I hadn't done it. I look at my wound and am satisfied.
Kinda twisted aren't I!!??
Muffled

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger*** » terrics

Posted by fairywings on October 8, 2005, at 15:57:16

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

I didn't read through all the posts, but did want to mention really quickly that the book "Trauma and Recovery" mentions SI and dissociation, like was said in one of the posts, and sounds like your knife incident. It brings you back from a dissociated state. Might be worth looking at the book.

fw

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger***

Posted by terrics on October 9, 2005, at 19:33:48

In reply to Re: A Question and a big ***trigger*** » terrics, posted by fairywings on October 8, 2005, at 15:57:16

Thank you all for all the insight. I'll lok for that book fw. I may have it, but I didn't read it. terrics

 

Re: A Question and a big ***trigger*** » terrics

Posted by B2chica on October 10, 2005, at 11:45:08

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

hey terrics. hope you're ok.
i think every reason i do it has been listed. i too have hit my head alot, thowing myself into things but mostly i cut.

i used to do it as a teen but it was really shallow then.
the last two years i've been doing it again, first many times i didn't even remember doing it. then i would come home from therapy and have a breakdown bawling with so much pain inside i cut (never felt pain) just to release, like a pressure valve. then there were times that i cut to not feel numb, to see the blood and feel real.
lately i've tried to stop mostly because my urges to harm are severe and i don't want to stop with only a little cut. so i try not to do it at all. you have all these emotions and don't know where to go with them.
the last couple of weeks i started getting back on the treadmill and run as fast as i can, pushing myself till i about fall. it's still not good for me but i figure it's better than any more scars. i'm sure i'll do it again, but till then i'm trying my best not to.

remember, just keep it clean. clean your 'tool' with paroxide or alcohol, and keep your would well cared for.

sometimes i wonder if i cut not for the cut but the taking care of it afterwards???

take care of yourself
b2c.

 

Re: book suggestion » terrics

Posted by B2chica on October 10, 2005, at 12:51:02

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

there is a book on cutting that i really, really liked. it's called "cutting" i don't remember the author but it's a grey colored cover. what i liked about it was it had case studies of different people and why THEY cut. several of them i related to.

i also read "a bright red scream" but i didn't like it as well. (personal preference)
b2c.

 

Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » terrics

Posted by pegasus on October 10, 2005, at 13:04:47

In reply to A Question and a big ***trigger***, posted by terrics on October 7, 2005, at 12:49:16

I happen to have a document that I put together for my T a while back about this, so I thought I'd post it. It's a bunch of answers to this question that I found on the secret shame web site, that rang true for me. Sorry it's so long, but I found the collection helpful for myself. I hope it's helpful for someone else, too:

Question: Why do you SI?

Answers:
"Sometimes I have too much emotion or a type of thinking I can't handle (such as being angry when I know I don't have a right to be, or if I've done something wrong that I knew I shouldn't have done or some similar contradiction), and I don't know how to understand it or deal with it. I don't have words for it, or anyone who would understand the words if I did. So I explain it to myself with pain and blood and scars. I think of it as a way of forcing my feelings to be real and to matter. And also it helps me gain control, and become calmer. I'd like to be able to tell someone else, but I don't know how. When I try, it doesn't seem to help. Sometimes I write instead, trying to get it out in words. But I never can. Even now, this isn't exactly right." (female, age 38)

"I started [self injury] to control my own pain - I had just been betrayed by two people I cared about, so I wanted to take the control of my pain away from them into my own hands. It turned into just a way for me to organize many uncertainties of pain into one, very certain, pain on my body." (female, age 16)

"I [self injure] when I feel I can't be heard, or the words aren't coming out right - like I'm invisible - and I hate being powerless like that." {female, age 43}

"To show myself the pain" {female, age 37}

"It was never, like, 'I am going to hurt myself and put myself in the hospital.' ...It is that I am going to give myself the pain that I need to feel to put the punctuation on this sh*t that's going inside." - Fiona Apple

"SI makes me feel real. Its like "i have the scars and can prove that i really do feel like this, i'm not pretending or attention seeking, it's for real." The scars make me feel proud, like i have a secret that no one can take away. i can do this to myself and not one can stop me. i like to see my blood, (this seems disgusting and masochistic even to me), but i can't explain why i like it. SI is bittersweet..." - female, age 16

"There's lots of reasons. It gives me control, and when I cut I feel like because I can handle that pain, I can handle my emotional pain. I feel like I need a reason or an excuse to feel the emotional pain that I do, and having scars I gave myself gives me a reason for my irrational depression. . . . I just have this irrational desire to see my own blood." - female, age 16

"the blood made me feel some sort of accomplishment. when it started going deep enough to cause blood, i definitely felt some sort of "ah yes, keep going"-feeling. it was like power. mind over matter. the cuts were like another little secret between me and myself. i think it made me feel closer to me. but the best part of the whole thing was watching the scars heal. i think that served as some sort of assurance that i'm "healing" in some way." - female, age 19

"(1) to see blood. It makes me feel like I'm alive, the blood itself is in some weird way like life itself. So, when I'm numb or overwhelmed, it helps soothe me. (2) for the scars. They make me feel like my pain is real, no one can dismiss actual proof like scars, the way people close to me have dismissed my problems and feelings. It's like battle scars: I can look at them and know that I HAVE been through something, and no one can tell me I'm lying. I hurt enough to injure myself-- that means I WAS in pain emotionally. (3) for the pain afterwards. For some reason it makes me feel alive, too. It gives me comfort. When I hate myself, touching the wound will help me feel like I've already been punished, and I'm allowed not to hate myself" - female, age 24

"Trust is a big issue with self-injury. As a self-injurer, I always wanted to be in control of my pain. My fear was that someone would take that control away if they found out what I was doing. Without that control I felt I had nothing."

“An important thing for me, is in the days following, to be able to put my hand to my wrist or whatever and feel the results of my emotions. I like having the reminder of whatever it is that's driving me to tear up my body. I like to be able to press down on the bruise again and know that what I felt was real." - age 16

"[I'm] female, almost 19, first cutting at 16, just finished freshman year of college. And I have everything in the world except my self, if that makes sense."

The feelings are overwhelming--usually severe feelings of rejection, self-hatred or anger. Cutting presents a way to make the pain show (and be felt) on the *outside* where I can deal with it. . . . by cutting, I feel like I am accomplishing *something* while I am in a situation that I (usually) have little control over . . . I feel better after experiencing it--like I have been rightfully punished for something and life can continue anew. At the same time, the wounds usually hurt some even after a few days and they are reminders of what I have done. Feeling in touch with the pain hours or days after the process serves as a perpetual reminder that I have *paid my dues*, whatever they may be. - female, age 33, SIB since teens, Ph.D.

 

Re: A Question (really long and triggery)

Posted by B2chica on October 10, 2005, at 15:44:59

In reply to Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » terrics, posted by pegasus on October 10, 2005, at 13:04:47

pegasus (First, how are you? haven't seen you here for a while?)

second, i have been to that site many times. i really like it.

http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html

 

Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » B2chica

Posted by pegasus on October 12, 2005, at 9:51:10

In reply to Re: A Question (really long and triggery), posted by B2chica on October 10, 2005, at 15:44:59

Hi B2c!

I'm doing well, although really busy. I don't get many chances to post. But I've been reading along in snatches at work and when the baby naps. And I think about all of you a lot.

Yes, I love that site too. When I found it, it was the first time I felt that someone out there might understand me, and that my SI might not mean that I was hopeless and crazy.

peg

 

Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » pegasus

Posted by B2chica on October 12, 2005, at 10:49:26

In reply to Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » B2chica, posted by pegasus on October 12, 2005, at 9:51:10

did you have a boy or a girl??
b2c.

 

Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » B2chica

Posted by pegasus on October 13, 2005, at 17:08:16

In reply to Re: A Question (really long and triggery) » pegasus, posted by B2chica on October 12, 2005, at 10:49:26

girl - she's a cutie


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