Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 557662

Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Need Advice

Posted by cricket on September 21, 2005, at 13:27:30

Okay, I am still hanging in there with my therapist. I knew I was going to want to pull back, but he wanted to talk about the last session.

He asked if the kids were better about going there after the last session.

I said yes.

He said what about you? Do you still feel like something is expected of you here that you can’t do?

Yeah, I said. Talk. I feel like you expect me to talk. And I feel like I never know what to say. And when I do finally find something to say, it’s always the wrong thing and you don’t like it.

Then he talked about a lot of things that I can’t really remember. I wasn’t very present. Whenever we talk about my inability to do therapy, it feels painful. I feel like fleeing.

Then he said that I felt that there was something innately wrong, defective about me.

I said. “Yeah. Duh.” Did he really think that was an insight?

But then he did get clever. He said, “You’ve lived almost your whole life with a gun to your head. You’re very tough and you don’t really mind the gun. In fact, you would like it if you could do therapy with a gun to your head.”

I said, “Yes, exactly. So let’s do it like that.”

“But therapy is the one thing that you can’t do with a gun to your head. You have to be relaxed enough in here, comfortable enough just to talk. Let what comes come. Say what you want to say. I don’t write the script.”

“Yeah, well I think you have a hidden one that you check from time to time and I’m not following it.”

Then he got clever again. “Think about how it is with (he named an alter). You have a special place where you talk to her. You go there regularly. Sometimes you talk, sometimes she just tells you images, sometimes you’re just quiet with her, right? But nothing is forced. And it just happens. I want this to be like that.”

That brought tears to my eyes because for the first time I saw that it might be possible for therapy to be something other than excruciatingly painful. And I was also so glad that he didn’t say well you used to talk to your grandmother when you were 3

But now this is the second time in a row, that he’s actually asked me to look at relationships in my internal family (as my T calls them and as I’ve heard Damos call them too) and use that as a model.

It makes me feel both pathetic and hopeful.

But how? How do I get there?

Right now, when I wake up every Tuesday, and remember it’s therapy day, this awful feeling of dread sinks in. On my way, there my heart pounds a mile a minute. I feel nauseous and light-headed. Then I get there and I freeze. I feel like a trapped animal. I watch his every move, with only my eyes, my body is as still as possible.

Over time it has gotten worse. How in the world can I change this?


 

Re: Need Advice » cricket

Posted by Shortelise on September 21, 2005, at 13:59:24

In reply to Need Advice, posted by cricket on September 21, 2005, at 13:27:30

Cricket, it feels to me that you don't need advice. It feels like you are getting where you need to be in therapy. Trust yourself and your T.

(((cricket)))

SHortE

 

Re: Need Advice » Shortelise

Posted by cricket on September 21, 2005, at 20:36:46

In reply to Re: Need Advice » cricket, posted by Shortelise on September 21, 2005, at 13:59:24

Thanks SHortE.

I guess maybe I am where I need to be for now, but it sure is painful.

I'm working on the trust and I know that my therapist is going more than halfway. I desperately need dental work but can't afford it right now so my therapist said go ahead and get your tooth taken care of and you can catch up with my fee next month.

I accepted his offer even though my initial reaction was no because that's part of trust too, allowing someone to help you, right?

 

Re: Need Advice

Posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2005, at 21:25:26

In reply to Need Advice, posted by cricket on September 21, 2005, at 13:27:30


> “But therapy is the one thing that you can’t do with a gun to your head. You have to be relaxed enough in here, comfortable enough just to talk. Let what comes come. Say what you want to say. I don’t write the script.”

> “Yeah, well I think you have a hidden one that you check from time to time and I’m not following it.”

> Then he got clever again. “Think about how it is with (he named an alter). You have a special place where you talk to her. You go there regularly. Sometimes you talk, sometimes she just tells you images, sometimes you’re just quiet with her, right? But nothing is forced. And it just happens. I want this to be like that.”

> That brought tears to my eyes because for the first time I saw that it might be possible for therapy to be something other than excruciatingly painful. And I was also so glad that he didn’t say well you used to talk to your grandmother when you were 3

That sounds really great
(scarey of course)
But really really great
I think that is what it is supposed to be about...
Being able to talk about all those things you think that there is no way in the world that you could ever say to another human being (hell, that you can't even admit to yourself)
And that not being judged for that...
Is what can be so healing.

Thats where I struggle with therapy at the moment.
I can think of stuff to say
But I can't bring myself to say it.
And so its not something that just changes
It is more that there is a little battle that goes on inside of us everytime something occurs to us to say
And we struggle with whether to say it or not
But it gets easier the more they do respond non-judgementally and sympathetically.

You are doing so well
I am so proud of you for not running
You really have come a long way in the last month :-)

 

Re: Need Advice » cricket

Posted by Damos on September 22, 2005, at 0:10:56

In reply to Need Advice, posted by cricket on September 21, 2005, at 13:27:30

Hi Cricket,

Just want to start by saying that this and your "Important Session" post have made my heart break in the most wonderful ways. You're a remarkable woman and you're doing so great. And before I go any further I need to be real clear about the fact that what I know about DID and therapy would fit on the point of a pin with enough room left over for a reasonable sized apartment complex. The closest I can come to a description of how it feels for someone like me to try and respond to you, Kerria, Fairywings, Alex and others about what you feel and experience is to ask you to imagine yourselves as china shops and me as a bull who's ODd on clumsy pills. So please forgive me if I talk complete cr*p and bumble about a bit.

Okay, so you're right, what he said wasn't an insight. But getting you to admit to having those feelings is huge. Ginormous in fact. What's that saying "All that is required for evil to flourish, is for good men to remain silent." That's what it's like with our negative perceptions of ourselves. Your T can't help you put an end to their evil until you admit they are there. So a big YAY for you on that one

My take on the "..gun to your head" bit is that (I assume) you've lived your life under a sense of constant threat, and the reason you'd like to do therapy that way is because your system is set up specifically to respond to threats perceived and actual. Every member of your internal family has a specific role and responsibility in coping with a life where no-one can be trusted and everyone and everything is potentially dangerous. To protect you from thoughts, feelings and experiences that they don't think you can handle. So you'd like therapy to be like that cause everyone would know exactly what to do. Have you ever seen those top athletes that look so ordinary during the regular season but who become this amazing superstar at play-off time? It's a similar thing, their entire system is finely tuned to performing under a particular type and level of pressure, tension and stress, and when those things aren't there they're at a loss as to how to 'make it happen'.

But therapy can't be like that. Because it's about showing you the other possibilities of how to be and to engage in the world. It's about showing the whole family how life could be different and better for all of you. There's more to say here but I'm stuffed if I can find the right words.

I guess I like the 'internal family' idea because there is a warmth to it and the image of everyone being part of something greater than themselves. For me it also encompasses little kids, teenagers, grown-ups, boys and girls easily. It also speaks of every member being at their own level of development within the family and to the potential for growth within the whole family unit. I also like it because everyone has their own identify within the family and all are entitled to the love, care, respect and protection of the rest of the family. It also fits really nicely with things you've said about the part that goes to work but doesn't go to therapy; the part that gets cross when the kids misbehave and who tries to protect everyone. I can only assume he suggested using your relationships with them as a model because you had to lean to communicate with each of them, and I'm assuming that the form of communication is different with each and that as a family and individuals you have created 'safe' places and ways to discuss and deal with 'hard' stuff. I think he's asking what the family needs him to do for the therapy space to be a safe place for you to come to and be.

Oh Cricket, you are so not pathetic, you are light years from that. Yes, be hopeful, there's lots to be hopeful about. It's been a huge few weeks and a lot to take in.

So let me see if I've got this straight. The purpose of the system is to protect you from thoughts, feelings and experiences it doesn't think you can handle; and you're going to therapy and to use your words: "...since I've been coming here so long and I have told you things that I never even dreamed of telling anyone." So if I've got this right you're going to therapy to talk about all the stuff your internal family has spent their whole life trying to protect you from. Anyone see a conflict. So if it's anything like life, the closer you get to telling the 'secrets' the harder everyone tries to stop you. And they're probably afraid that if you get better you won't need them any more so they're scared. He's asking you how together you can find a place where it's okay to tell the secrets - where everyone will feel safe.

As for the script stuff. He sounds like he has a pretty solid overall strategy and that he adapts his tactics according to what is happening in the moment, but never, ever loses sight of the overall strategy.

Well that's my take on it anyway.

 

Re: Need Advice » alexandra_k

Posted by cricket on September 22, 2005, at 12:24:14

In reply to Re: Need Advice, posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2005, at 21:25:26

> It is more that there is a little battle that goes on inside of us everytime something occurs to us to say
> And we struggle with whether to say it or not

That is it exactly. Little battle SAY, DON'T SAY, SAY LIKE THIS, NO SAY LIKE THAT, NO DON'T SAY AT ALL, THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE QUICK

Then I retreat into silence and he says "What are you thinking right now?"

That makes it worse sometimes, sometimes it helps. He asked last session if I felt like his questions put more pressure on me. I said no, questions help sometimes.

> But it gets easier the more they do respond non-judgementally and sympathetically.

I hope so.
>
> You are doing so well
> I am so proud of you for not running
> You really have come a long way in the last month :-)

Yeah :-) Thanks Alex.

 

Re: Need Advice » cricket

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2005, at 15:46:01

In reply to Re: Need Advice » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on September 22, 2005, at 12:24:14

> That is it exactly. Little battle SAY, DON'T SAY, SAY LIKE THIS, NO SAY LIKE THAT, NO DON'T SAY AT ALL, THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE QUICK

> Then I retreat into silence and he says "What are you thinking right now?"

Maybe you could tell him a little about the inner battles? Just enough so that when he asks you what you are thinking you can say that that is what is going on?

What I find...

Is that it can be hard to get the balance between me directing the session and the therapist directing the session. Sometimes... I wish they could just direct me. Othertimes... I have stuff I want to say / talk about. But I guess in general I need some kind of middle way. Open ended questions can be good but not if they are too general. I know the point is supposed to be in how I choose to interpret the question but I need them to clarify. If there isn't enough direction then my mind just kind of ranges over all kinds of stuff... And I'm sitting there going 'what do you *mean*? I don't understand what you mean'.

> He asked last session if I felt like his questions put more pressure on me. I said no, questions help sometimes.

Yeah. I guess it depends on the question.

> > But it gets easier the more they do respond non-judgementally and sympathetically.

> I hope so.

:-)
Yeah. I think it does.
Though I also find that things can get a bit harder when I realise that I really care what they think of me and then I get afraid about telling them stuff. But I guess that is something to be worked through...

:-)

 

Re: Need Advice » Damos

Posted by cricket on September 22, 2005, at 16:19:46

In reply to Re: Need Advice » cricket, posted by Damos on September 22, 2005, at 0:10:56


>
> Just want to start by saying that this and your "Important Session" post have made my heart break in the most wonderful ways. You're a remarkable woman and you're doing so great.

And you've been wonderfully supportive Damos. Your posts help me so much. I sure hope you get a lot of support and love IRL because you deserve it.

And before I go any further I need to be real clear about the fact that what I know about DID and therapy would fit on the point of a pin with enough room left over for a reasonable sized apartment complex. The closest I can come to a description of how it feels for someone like me to try and respond to you, Kerria, Fairywings, Alex and others about what you feel and experience is to ask you to imagine yourselves as china shops and me as a bull who's ODd on clumsy pills. So please forgive me if I talk complete cr*p and bumble about a bit.
>
Bumble away. To me too it's like feeling my way through the dark.

> Okay, so you're right, what he said wasn't an insight. But getting you to admit to having those feelings is huge. Ginormous in fact. What's that saying "All that is required for evil to flourish, is for good men to remain silent." That's what it's like with our negative perceptions of ourselves. Your T can't help you put an end to their evil until you admit they are there. So a big YAY for you on that one
>
Okay I hadn't thought about it that way. You do need to name things even if it's obvious to everyone.

> My take on the "..gun to your head" bit is that (I assume) you've lived your life under a sense of constant threat, and the reason you'd like to do therapy that way is because your system is set up specifically to respond to threats perceived and actual. Every member of your internal family has a specific role and responsibility in coping with a life where no-one can be trusted and everyone and everything is potentially dangerous. To protect you from thoughts, feelings and experiences that they don't think you can handle. So you'd like therapy to be like that cause everyone would know exactly what to do. Have you ever seen those top athletes that look so ordinary during the regular season but who become this amazing superstar at play-off time? It's a similar thing, their entire system is finely tuned to performing under a particular type and level of pressure, tension and stress, and when those things aren't there they're at a loss as to how to 'make it happen'.
>
Yes, exactly.

> But therapy can't be like that. Because it's about showing you the other possibilities of how to be and to engage in the world. It's about showing the whole family how life could be different and better for all of you. There's more to say here but I'm stuffed if I can find the right words.
>
> I guess I like the 'internal family' idea because there is a warmth to it and the image of everyone being part of something greater than themselves. For me it also encompasses little kids, teenagers, grown-ups, boys and girls easily. It also speaks of every member being at their own level of development within the family and to the potential for growth within the whole family unit. I also like it because everyone has their own identify within the family and all are entitled to the love, care, respect and protection of the rest of the family. It also fits really nicely with things you've said about the part that goes to work but doesn't go to therapy; the part that gets cross when the kids misbehave and who tries to protect everyone. I can only assume he suggested using your relationships with them as a model because you had to lean to communicate with each of them, and I'm assuming that the form of communication is different with each and that as a family and individuals you have created 'safe' places and ways to discuss and deal with 'hard' stuff. I think he's asking what the family needs him to do for the therapy space to be a safe place for you to come to and be.
>
> Oh Cricket, you are so not pathetic, you are light years from that. Yes, be hopeful, there's lots to be hopeful about. It's been a huge few weeks and a lot to take in.
>
> So let me see if I've got this straight. The purpose of the system is to protect you from thoughts, feelings and experiences it doesn't think you can handle; and you're going to therapy and to use your words: "...since I've been coming here so long and I have told you things that I never even dreamed of telling anyone." So if I've got this right you're going to therapy to talk about all the stuff your internal family has spent their whole life trying to protect you from. Anyone see a conflict. So if it's anything like life, the closer you get to telling the 'secrets' the harder everyone tries to stop you. And they're probably afraid that if you get better you won't need them any more so they're scared. He's asking you how together you can find a place where it's okay to tell the secrets - where everyone will feel safe.
>
I think you did get it all right. Thanks Damos. It's great to have someone else help me articulate something I've been struggling with.

> As for the script stuff. He sounds like he has a pretty solid overall strategy and that he adapts his tactics according to what is happening in the moment, but never, ever loses sight of the overall strategy.
>
> Well that's my take on it anyway.

Thanks again Damos. Do you accept cyberhugs?

 

Re: Need Advice » cricket

Posted by Damos on September 22, 2005, at 17:55:54

In reply to Re: Need Advice » Damos, posted by cricket on September 22, 2005, at 16:19:46

Thanks Cricket, your kind words were just what I needed this morning.

> Okay I hadn't thought about it that way. You do need to name things even if it's obvious to everyone.

Yep, I think that's one of the hardest things about being a friend or T. Until the person says "I feel or I think blah, blah, blah", you really can't go there, eventhough you sense/know it. What's that other saying? "And the truth shall set you free." It is your ability to speak the truth of what you think and feel that gives him permission to work with you on it.

> I think you did get it all right. Thanks Damos. It's great to have someone else help me articulate something I've been struggling with.

More luck than good management I assure you. Just glad I could help, and I'm happy to any time.

> Thanks again Damos. Do you accept cyberhugs?

Yes please. Been known to give 'em too, so here's one for you.

(((((Cricket)))))



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