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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:03:24
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 15:51:45
Oh kerria, that sounds so incredibly confusing and hard. I really don't understand about your T's comments. They do sound very hurtful.
Does he specialize in dissociative disorders? I'm sure that going to him for five years has some kind of small comfort, although it sounds like he has very very strict boundaries. Have you ever thought about seeing someone else? Perhaps the Psychological Association in your State can help with a referral to someone who specializes in DID?
At any rate, please know I hear your pain, and I wish I could help.
Take care,
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2005, at 19:32:45
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 15:51:45
Hmm... I have one who is mute. And its not that she doesn't speak (or that she is too young to). Its that she CAN'T speak...
I'm sorry things are hard for you :-(
Posted by ClearSkies on August 24, 2005, at 19:56:40
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 15:51:45
I'm so sorry for the poor communication between your T and your parts. I have had poor experiences with T's and they can set us back worse than our pasts, if I am making sense.
If your T is not understanding what is going on, do you think that printing out some posts from here (or portions of them) might help?
Otherwise perhaps your p-doc can assist in a search for a more suitable therapist.
I hope things improve soon, let us know how you're doing.
ClearSkies
Posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 20:04:48
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by gardenergirl on August 24, 2005, at 19:03:24
(((Gardenergirl))) T only works with D.D.- for more than twenty years.
T and one of the known drs for DID research set up one of the first units for DID treatment. My T works in there and probably has seen more patients with DID than anyone else in the world by now.
The APA would just send me to T's hospital for treatment.Thank you GG, i don't know why T can't help me.
everything is about communication but now that we're getting some communication- i feel forced- it's too hard to live with the results. inside hurts so much. i don't think T thinks that i'm going to make it. it's too hard to find another T else unless someone helps me. we're too apart. i don't feel safe. i don't think safety is a priority with my T. Or T really doesn't know how devastated i am.
tears,
kerria
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 20:06:40
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 20:04:48
Maybe your therapist is a bit burned out? Twenty years is a long time.
Posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 20:09:24
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2005, at 19:32:45
(((Alexandra)))
i didn't know that everything would change like this. i'm in crisis- i can't work. everything is so different.
i'm worried if i should see T- i need my dr to call back.
take care,
kerria
Posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 21:15:36
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by ClearSkies on August 24, 2005, at 19:56:40
(((ClearSkies)))
It's hard for me to find Ts that understand. My psychDr tried - he gave me two to see but in the end, our parts were hurt. Everything is hard about therapy.
You're right- to be misunderstood is so painful.
So much is so upsetting. it's so hard to live with the fbs and without help. i can't function and T doesn't care. He'll just say, "If you're not happy with me, go to someone else. " It feels exactly like he's abandoning me because we're torn apart because of telling him about the fbs.yesterday. Everything is so different now.My psych dr didn't call me back.
How does everyone find T's that care and help?
i wish there were a support group or some way. i wish i wasn't always so alone,
kerria
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 21:22:06
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » ClearSkies, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 21:15:36
That really doesn't sound like a very sensitive comment. Does he make insensitive comments often?
I wish everyone had a therapist who cared. I know how lucky I am.
But my therapist didn't always care about me. He used to not particularly like me.
Posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 21:25:02
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 20:06:40
Yes. i think also that he's so familiar with seeing patients in crisis in the hospital. Most of T's therapy is done with short-term patients that he sees for 2 or3 weeks. it feels like i don't know him any more than the first week i met him:(
so hurt and need real help fast.
i don't know if i have appt tomorrow or not.
He thinks communication isn't upsetting. with me it's a nightmare.
i wish T could understand. if i explain he will get defensive and i will hurt more.
There's no way out.,
kerria
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 21:29:59
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » Dinah, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 21:25:02
Sometimes there are no great choices. But there are usually some choices that are better than others.
If I understand you correctly, it's communication between your parts that you find unacceptable? And your therapist considers it necessary and helpful? And he gets defensive if you try to say that it isn't, because that would mean you think his approach to DID isn't the best one?
I'm just trying to see if I understand the basic problem.
If that's correct, what do you see as the best way to deal with DID? I know there are a lot of different approaches. Cooperation, integration. What would be your ideal? What do you want for yourself?
Posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:13:00
In reply to Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 12:00:08
hi kerria,
I'm sorry you're hurting and feeling so bad! I hope it gets better soon!Is it possible that in your frustration and unhappiness, you're remembering your T's words as being harsher than they are? It's possible that he's doing his best for you, and trying to be honest -- what you see with him is what you get, or at least, this is the most he's capable of delivering to you. It sounds like you're suffering from a very complex and painful disorder, both physically and mentally, and it's possible that your T is having a hard time finding the best way to help you, especially if different parts come to therapy.
I worry that you're putting too much power in your T's hands...I'm not sure that any T is capable of fully fixing our issues. I think we need to do it with their help. It sounds like you've kind of abandoned hope -- you said several times that you can't do anthing, you can't function, etc. Is there anything you have done for yourself in the past that helps you get into a more positive "can do it" attitude?
Kerria, I hope things get better soon!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:18:29
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » ClearSkies, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 21:15:36
hi Kerria,
I was thinking about the comments from your T along the lines of "if you don't like my style, you can see someone else." People usually say something like that, in my experience, when they're frustrated or feeling manipulated. Or they might say it if they're getting severe push-back, or if agreed-upon expectations are not being met.Do you think your T could be feeling any of those things? Is it something you could bring up with him? Clearly the comments have hurt you very much. It seems that it might be useful to talk to him about his comments and exactly WHY he said them. I mean, I was just hypothesizing about what I'd infer from such a statement, but I don't know him -- he could mean anything! But I think it's important to find out. And if he's a bad T, or not helping you at all, it might be time to move on. But if you're at a difficult impasse in therapy, sticking with him through the rough patch and trying to do it "his way" might in the end be extremely fruitful and might be helpful...
IN any case, I'm sorry you're hurting. Take care.
JenStar
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 0:54:47
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 21:22:06
Hi Dinah,
What made the difference- that your T started to appreciate you as a person.?
i don't know why my T is so strange and impossible to get any relationship with. i used to think it was me, i am a mess but once i had a conference call with psych dr and he thought T sounded defensive also.It feels like he doesn't want me to do well because he gives impossible tasks- --getting to know parts- i honestly try but it's something that a T that knows me would break into smaller chunks - i have never went anywhere in five years.
T tells me he likes things about me sometimes but his actions and lack of empathy betrays him every time i see him. i never met someone so unchanged by another person's trauma and heartache. it's re-tramatizing just to go there. i'm talking myself out of going.
yes i wish he had a personality that demonstrated that he cared if i lived.
i wish i were exaggerating.
kerria:(
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 1:15:01
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2005, at 21:29:59
my T becomes defensive of himself- and the way that he treats me in therapy. The trauma model (about communication) is all he knows that works and if a patient dies because they can't live with that he acts as if he doesn't care.
The method is greater and more value than the patient.
It's Not patient-centered therapy at all.
For me, it's so horrific to live as separated parts. i would choose to communicate if i could. Up until now attempts at communication have driven me to feel s. and if that happened it wouldn't be so good for my kids.
i wish T would come up with creative ways to help communication instead of announcing the deeds of parts when contrary parts are out- which only intensifies internal conflict/ and hated between parts. It would also help if he was a lot less arbitrary and stopped giving me the thought that he thinks i'm not going to make it. He isn't kind. i can sit and use a half box of tissues and he would not be affected. It's eerie. It makes me feel like an alein- that he stopped thinking i was another human like he was. (God forbid).i hate going to therapy. It's horrible to struggle to communicate with parts and take on their pain when your T acts so unaffirming and make you feel so alone in your pain. Pain is a horrible thing to have to have alone.
kerria
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 1:36:49
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:13:00
Thank you, Jen Star.
You're right- things look very sad a lot.It doesn't help though for T to give the same speech about "What you see is what you get" at the lowest point in my crisis though. That's not the time to mention that i should see someone else if i'm not happy with his treatment plan then. i think that he should wait until things are calmed down and more stable because it feels like he's threatening to abandon me.
i hate that he saves that same speech for the time when i'm in absolute despair and says it - sometimes it feels like he wants to drive me over the edge.
i don't know why a T would not be sensitive to the despair of his patients. The only think i can think of is that he works in the inpatient unit and many are in despair that he sees everyday so he's familiar.i'm doing the best i can with the struggle i have to communicate. Why wouldn't i?
Parts see T all different ways- maybe that happens but i never see him as truly appreciating my struggle and having empathy for all of the pain i have because of all the problems that come with being separate . T has no idea how much it hurts inside.
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 2:10:13
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:18:29
i try to do everything T's way. There is no other way. i have tried to use T's suggestions to communicate but without much success because of the pain it causes or because of switching. There are no expectations that were arranged that i don't do.
i've followed T's suggestions to my hurt- by writing journal emails. T would like me to 'ask inside' more often but it's very very difficult to do that. it's still hard to think of myself as having parts, it's very scary and unsetting to have many opposing viewpoints on everything. It feels like a confusing mess- because when you know- THEN what do you do. Sometimes there's no answer.If you feel divided there's so much stress and insecurity inside. Especially if it's about major issues in life.
Many times i've talked to T- about why he says "Find someone else." Over and over i told him how horrible it makes me feel when he says that.
If he's frustrated- how do you think i am?
T has to bear with me for just 110 min a week but i have all the time . It's so difficult to be alone with out any help and then have your only source of help say "Go somewhere else, then." during the short time you see him.
He isn't my only source of help- church is. i'm misunderstood a lot though.DID is a hard disorder to have because it makes people have opposing parts. There's no solution to solve disagreements inside if there is no one in charge. i don't have a 'host' or charge person.
i wish i could sleep.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 6:06:14
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » Dinah, posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 1:15:01
> my T becomes defensive of himself- and the way that he treats me in therapy. The trauma model (about communication) is all he knows that works and if a patient dies because they can't live with that he acts as if he doesn't care.
>
> The method is greater and more value than the patient.
>
> It's Not patient-centered therapy at all.I think this is very insightful. And I agree with Dinah that he might be burned out. A good clinician also knows that not every technique works with every patient every time. So they need to be able to try other things. Is there someone else on his team who might be more invested in doing therapy?
>
> For me, it's so horrific to live as separated parts. i would choose to communicate if i could. Up until now attempts at communication have driven me to feel s. and if that happened it wouldn't be so good for my kids.
>
>
> i wish T would come up with creative ways to help communication instead of announcing the deeds of parts when contrary parts are out- which only intensifies internal conflict/ and hated between parts. It would also help if he was a lot less arbitrary and stopped giving me the thought that he thinks i'm not going to make it.It sounds like you two are not on the same page as far as therapy goals. Have you had the time or energy to do some research on other ways to treat DID? Perhaps there is another method that is a better fit for you.
I do know the idea of changing involves more stress and a need to form trust again. But maybe, just maybe, it might be worth the risk?
((((kerria))))
gg
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 7:38:36
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 6:06:14
Hi Gardenergirl,
Thanks for writing.
T and i do have the same goal- communication with parts but survival needs to be first.
There aren't that many Ts that treat DID and the ones that do don't have room to take on new patients. also- all the Ts that specialize in DID know each other. Every T i would call would know my T- they would know him personally or know his name . Once you have a T it's hard to change even with Ts- i didn't find anyone to take me once they found i was seeing my T. They are worried that we can't make the transition- it is difficult to have internal agreement. i hope someday i move to another state.That's probably the only way. Or even better- that my T would start caring about how it feels to be me in all of this.i like my T but really dread therapy. i think that the communication method at that place he works is easier for some patients than others, the others- like me are 'bad' patients. T will never stop plugging the program and it worries me because it isn't safe for me.
i know i've been in unsafe places lots of times and there's nothing i can do. T will say i could call him when in crisis but i'll always be sorry i did because it isn't any better when i call.Stuck.
i'm stuck in t. with my T and if it doesn't work i'm the only one who will suffer. why i hate having this horrible disorder. we're so isolated. i hope i can get better and just quit.
i wish there were a support group - i always am in some degree of crisis because of lack of support.thanks, gg, for being there.
take care,
kerria
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 8:54:01
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 6:06:14
No, T won't refer me to someone else at that place. i wish T would try other things to help. It's so hard- i have t. today.
i wish T was more compassionate. i remember last time i sat down in Ts office- and we looked down on the side of the chair and there was a rumpled used kleenex on the floor, hidden by some things.
i said, "Somebody else was crying," thinking about there are other people that go to therapy besides me that cry also.
T said, "That's disgusting." He walked over and dumped the tissue without touching it into the garbage. i said, "No it's not. It hurts a lot to cry."
That's just it- T doesn't know how much it hurts to cry. i never saw him cry. Maybe he never did and doesn't know/remember what it was like when he was little.How does your T act when you cry?
(you don't have to answer- only if you want to).love,
kerria
Posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 8:57:56
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » Dinah, posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 0:54:47
{{{{Kerria}}}}
> T tells me he likes things about me sometimes but his actions and lack of empathy betrays him every time i see him. i never met someone so unchanged by another person's trauma and heartache. it's re-tramatizing just to go there. i'm talking myself out of going.
> yes i wish he had a personality that demonstrated that he cared if i lived.
> i wish i were exaggerating.I understand.
So then it gets worse and worse because you just want him to feel just a tiny bit of what you're feeling, right?
And it always seems like he doesn't.
So then you start to fall apart more and more there and it seems like he cares less and less, right?
Therapy itself becomes this incredibly traumatic experience and the bad feelings themselves are in the room and still he stays cold.
Is it anything like that?
It was for me. For months it was.
But then something changed. I don't know what. Maybe I came to see my therapist's scowl more as one of pain than of anger or disgust with me. I think I might have seen him crying once. He tried to hide it, but then I had a dream about it and he halfway admitted it.
So it changed. There are still bad feelings sometimes but they are not swirling around the room so much and I don't hear myself screaming inside F*ck you so much.
I don't know what to say. I haven't figured it out either. But I wish he would make it better for you.
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 9:26:48
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » Dinah, posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 0:54:47
I think it was probably because underneath all the annoyance at his flaws, there was a lot of appreciation for what he offered me. I liked him, and I started to express that genuine liking. I think he felt that and responded to it. And we began the long slow battle to understanding and mutual acceptance. Although in my eyes, I put in the lion's share of the effort, because I cared more.
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 14:02:03
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by cricket on August 25, 2005, at 8:57:56
(((Cricket)))
my T said once in response to my asking why he was so emotionless and appeared uncaring when i cry and he said "You wouldn't want me to get all slushy (sentimental/emotional) then, too, would you?"
i said "Yes - i would."
it would be so healing for me if he would get empathy feelings- besides anger- he has no trouble feeling and expressing anger- because i'm always so alone in the day to day stuggles and misunderstandings. There feels like there;s a gaping hole inside i'm so sad and so despairing and hopeless about getting better.
Still he's like that.take care,
kerria
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2005, at 16:44:34
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » cricket, posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 14:02:03
It is hard because the 'experts' form something of a closed group...
And with respect to theory... There is the post-traumatic model (which the closed group have allegence to) vs the socio-cognitive model (which the sceptics who consent to treat the disorder have allegence to)...
And with respect to alternatives or variations...
Then you aren't really looking to the 'experts' anymore.
You'd be taking your chances on someone who might not have much experience in treating the disorder...
Which (IMO) is a mixed blessing.
On the upside it does sound like you want the same things:
1) Increased communication
resulting in
2) Being less fragmented.Communication is hard...
It is scarey...
It can be terrifying...I reckon...
There could be a value in learning about coping skills BEFORE pushing the communication side of things.
Doing that would give you time to learn to trust your t a bit... And also trust your ability to cope with hard stuff.
Because communication is hard. And if / when what you are hearing is really painful stuff then you need coping strategies in place to be able to deal with that.I'm struggling a bit at the moment...
But whats helping me cope is all the skills I learned in DBT. About tolerating distress. Accepting it... Distracting from it... Steps I can take towards changing it...I don't really know what to say.
Except...
That sometimes things take time.
And until you have some trust in your t
Some trust in yourself
Communication probably will be too much...But I don't know how this is supposed to help...
Sorry.
Posted by Damos on August 25, 2005, at 17:38:27
In reply to Yesterday a part came in therapy:(, posted by kerria on August 24, 2005, at 12:00:08
((((((((((kerria))))))))))
I'm sorry you're hurting so badly. Wish I had something, anything to offer that would help. Just know you're in my thoughts.
Posted by kerria on August 25, 2005, at 19:57:18
In reply to Re: Yesterday a part came in therapy:( » kerria, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2005, at 16:44:34
((((((alexandra)))))))
i'm sorry that you're struggling with so much now yourself.BTW- please don't be sorry about anything- answers aren't as important as friends:).
Thank you for writing. Everything you say makes so much sense. i should 'know' containment skills from the inpatient stays at trauma treatment places by now.
Isn't it funny how easy they are to forget in a crisis- or to not be able to access when needed.Have you ever been to any DID treatment centers?
we might have met. i'm always wishing that i would find someone online that i knew.
The best place that i went to was the place in Washington State. i went there twice. it was really hard to go alone - all across the country- and hard to save all the money but being there was good. i think that they really cared about the patients.The treatment for DID there was very basic, not so into communication and all the scary stuff and they were tolerant of parts and very hopeful that DID was treatable. i hope my being there didn't change their mind.
take care, alex,
kerria
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