Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 536500

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Lott: My T never taught me self esteem.

Posted by Angela2 on August 1, 2005, at 17:22:45

Is this wrong? Unethical? I was going through a difficult relationship where I didn't get along with my boyfriends friends in some ways. It was something that was really bothering me. She suggested that I do things to "help the relationship, make myself feel better." But I didn't like any of her ideas. She would say something like: "tell your boyfriend...'enter boundary here.'" It makes sense what she was telling me. It was what someone with good self esteem and assertiveness would do. This was something I didn't have and I was so uncomfortable doing what she said I should do. She didn't seem to understand that I wasn't understanding why she was telling me to do those things. Is this just a communication problem? Or is she withholding info from me like how I can build up my self esteem? I have told her that I don't have good self esteem and she says "I know." So why doesn't she help me to bring it up?

btw, I would like to go down on my meds and she seems to want me to stay on them. The reason I want to go down is because I want to see how I feel with out them. I may be able to tell her this and have it work out in my favor. But the thing is, every time I try to assert my opinion about what I should do, she seems to come up with a "better." argument over why her way is right. And I end up agreeing with her. Another example of this would be number of times a month I go to therapy. I can't afford every week but she really used to push me to go every week and it cost my parents a fortune. I feel like in a way I have really messed up with my parents. I feel really bad about this and would like to pay them back in some way.

That is all I have to say. Thank you for whoever has read this far. Thank you to anyone who responds.

-Angela

 

Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem.

Posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 13:31:24

In reply to Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by Angela2 on August 1, 2005, at 17:22:45

Hi Angela,

I really wanted to reply to your post. I am sorry it is very long. When you first read it, you may be tempted to ignore it as its a bit different from what many people say. I have found it to be very helpful, so please read through to the end, and I hope it may help you too.

When I first started therapy, I was attracted by the whole idea of it being 'someone else's fault' and could hide behind that. However all this did was permit me to remain the same. What I learned lately is harder to swallow, as, although it still doesnt blame you, it requires you to adopt of position of adult responsibility for yourself. This second view has been so much more powerful.

I wanted to share something from a book I am reading, by a psychologist called Windy Dryden. He presents a different theory from self esteem (SE), and argues that it is flawed because you are simply moving from a place where you define yourself, a complex humaan with many different facets, as globally bad, to a place where you define yourself as globally good. Both are wrong because as humans we have good and bad running through us.

Dryden argues the principle of Self-Acceptance instead. I hope that some of these ideas are helpful to you as they have been to me:

1. As a human being, you cannot legitimately be given a single rating, but only parts of you can be rated.

2. Human beings are by their nature fallible and unique. As a human it is right that you are fallible and unique - in fact you MUST be.

3. You are equal to other human beings in terms of shared humanity, but some of your individual parts may be unequal to some other human beings.

4.When you accept yourself, you avoid the error of overgeneralisation - that is, globalising one small part of you to your whole being.

5.Unconditional self-acceptance is linked with a flexible, preferential philosophy. E.g instead of saying "My boyfriend must treat me with love and respect" - a demand which, if unsatisfied, leads to depression, you might say "I would prefer it if my boyfriend showed me love and respect in the way that I have asked him to, but there is no rule of the universe that says he must".

It is an odd law of human beings that, the less you need them, the more attracted they are to you. This last philosophy is very powerful from this perspective.

6.Unconditional self acceptance is difficult and requires hard work.

7. Internalising self-acceptance requires force and energy.

I found this useful because it made me look at myself in a new way. I was not saying "when I am perfect and when I love myself, then everything will be ok". I was saying "I am the way I am for a good reason. The past is not my fault and I am not to blame, even for the mistakes I made. I am where I am today, and I make a choice to change any behaviours that do not help me in the future"

When I grasped the concepts, it felt like a clean slate. It is a little like the buddhist mindset which says you are already perfect, and just as you should be. Then you can work on building your SKILLS, without the weight of past pain. Maybe at the moment you can grasp it intellectually, but you dont feel it 'deep down'. It takes a while to really grasp it internally - hence the lines about hard work.

One of the most liberating phrases I ever learned was this:

"I am worthy because I live and breathe. I am a fallible human being, and as such I should make mistakes, because from them I learn. I can apply myself to learn new skills, but my success or failure in so doing can never change my inherent worth"

I am not sure what your therapists aims are. I would hope that, if the above philosophy makes sense to you, it may now seem that you would only prefer your boyfriend act in certain ways.

If you say "he MUST do x", and then doesnt, you experience pain and anger. If you are saying, "I would like him to do x, but as he is fallible he may not do it". What you feel now is disappointment, but not rage and depression. This gives you choice, and more internal power because you will be more in control of your emotions.

Your therapist has given you some 'choices' in the form of boundary statements, which you can use as a result of stating your preference to him. There are many choices open to you all the time, and I have found that when I live by PREFERENCES, I am more likely to make a decision that is healthy for me.

Similarly, you would have preferred not have done things that you feel upset your parents, but you are human, and you did. Now you are in a place where you can make choices about what to do next without coming from a position of weakness.

I hope some of the above has been helpful - all of the above has helped me and I wanted to share it.

Sincerely,

Ross

 

Oops the book is How to Accept Yourself - Dryden (nm)

Posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 13:39:15

In reply to Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 13:31:24

 

Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem. » rabble_rouser

Posted by Angela2 on August 2, 2005, at 14:08:02

In reply to Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 13:31:24

Rabble Rouser,
Thank you very much for the thoughtful insightful reply. That was very nice of you! I am glad this the technique you shared with me has helped you. It seems interesting and I will read it over again to make sure I understand it fully. I have been doing a few exercises as well. I have gotten a few books out of the library too and I think they are helping. Thank you again.
Take Care,

-Angela

 

I find it easier to depend on God for all these.. » rabble_rouser

Posted by pinkeye on August 2, 2005, at 14:11:36

In reply to Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 13:31:24

For me, achieving self esteem/self acceptance/unconditional self approval/ everything was kind of pretty hard to achieve by myself.

I always ended up asking myself, how can I accept myself unconditionally, when knowingly I commit mistakes? How can I tell myself, I am a great person, I am a worthy person, and I deserve the very best etc, when I know I am not a great person, and I don't always behave at my best. How can I demand that my husband love me unconditionally, when I know I don't love anyone unconditionally? It all seemed a little hard to achieve realistically.

The easier thing for me to achieve was to somehow get it all levelled out and kind of linked to God. I started thinking, all of us are God's children and HE is supposed to love all of us unconditionally. And HE treats all of us as equal. So for me all this issue of Self Esteem/Self Acceptance/Self approval finally boiled down to "I am just as good or as worse as HIS any other children. If other people can feel good about themselves, then so can I. If other people can demand the best for themselves, then so can I. If other people can be happy irrespective of their mistakes, then so can I. IF all these murderes/rapists/corrupt people/good for nothing persons can be happy and can have pride in themselves, then so can I. And God loves all of them also, so why won't HE love me? And if HE can love me, so can I love myself. If HE approves of everyone, then HE would definitely approve of me, and I can also approve myself. Finally it all boiled down to I am equal to everyone and just as ordinary or as special - just as love-able or as un-love-able."

 

Re your meds

Posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 14:13:24

In reply to Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by Angela2 on August 1, 2005, at 17:22:45

In connection with wanting to reduce meds, I can totally understand that. I was on Effexor for a year, and combined with the CBT I was having, I felt brilliant - on top of the world. So much so that I figured I could do without the drugs.

One reason that your T may not want to let you reduce is that she may feel that there are still some skills or beliefs she wants you to have that will allow you to move in life in the most healthy way for yourself.

It sounds like she wants to share more with you, but with the support of the meds, before she 'lets you back into the wild' so to speak.

I personally had to end my CBT before my T said I was ready, and I came off my meds. Within 6 months I was very depressed again - the reason? I was still using the same behaviours that made me depressed, and the tablets were no longer there to mask the pain that resulted from it.

I hope that you find a solution that is best for you.

Ross

 

And thinking like that made it not so big a deal » pinkeye

Posted by pinkeye on August 2, 2005, at 14:17:36

In reply to I find it easier to depend on God for all these.. » rabble_rouser, posted by pinkeye on August 2, 2005, at 14:11:36

Once I kind of levelled everyone to the same level, all these issues became not so big a deal. Then I started accepting, that in some areas I am good - in some areas I am not so good. I do somethings extra ordinarily well, somethings pathetically bad. I sometimes go out of the way to help others and be nice, and sometimes go out of the way to be mean to others.

And it all became acceptable to me, because there came this magic phrase "I am an ordinary person living an ordinary life, and just an ordinary child of God".. and everything became easy. (The first portion of the above statement was a courtesy from my ex T :-). The latter portion, I added ). And actually that attitude really helps me - if my parents didn't love me perfectly, well, so be it - there is God finally. If my husband loves me, I am grateful for it - even if he doesn't, I don't lose much - there is always finally God to love me.

I belive, this is what that psychologists aim for - when they say you should be content in yourself and internally happy etc. I think they are little wrong in that nobody can achieve that level of internal-self-contendedness by themselves. All of us need some external support to be stable - and I chose God as the support.

> For me, achieving self esteem/self acceptance/unconditional self approval/ everything was kind of pretty hard to achieve by myself.
>
> I always ended up asking myself, how can I accept myself unconditionally, when knowingly I commit mistakes? How can I tell myself, I am a great person, I am a worthy person, and I deserve the very best etc, when I know I am not a great person, and I don't always behave at my best. How can I demand that my husband love me unconditionally, when I know I don't love anyone unconditionally? It all seemed a little hard to achieve realistically.
>
> The easier thing for me to achieve was to somehow get it all levelled out and kind of linked to God. I started thinking, all of us are God's children and HE is supposed to love all of us unconditionally. And HE treats all of us as equal. So for me all this issue of Self Esteem/Self Acceptance/Self approval finally boiled down to "I am just as good or as worse as HIS any other children. If other people can feel good about themselves, then so can I. If other people can demand the best for themselves, then so can I. If other people can be happy irrespective of their mistakes, then so can I. IF all these murderes/rapists/corrupt people/good for nothing persons can be happy and can have pride in themselves, then so can I. And God loves all of them also, so why won't HE love me? And if HE can love me, so can I love myself. If HE approves of everyone, then HE would definitely approve of me, and I can also approve myself. Finally it all boiled down to I am equal to everyone and just as ordinary or as special - just as love-able or as un-love-able."

 

Re: I find it easier to depend on God for all these..

Posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 14:18:45

In reply to I find it easier to depend on God for all these.. » rabble_rouser, posted by pinkeye on August 2, 2005, at 14:11:36

Dear Pinkeye,

Spot on! Thats what I was driving at. I'm an atheist and a bit of a geek, so I put it in somewhat overly-wordy format .. thank you for bringing some eloquence! I think its possible to take the essence of what you said, no matter what your beliefs - that we are all the children of something greater than our individual parts, and worthy of love - especially our own.

:)

Ross

 

Re: I find it easier to depend on God for all these.. » rabble_rouser

Posted by pinkeye on August 2, 2005, at 15:22:40

In reply to Re: I find it easier to depend on God for all these.., posted by rabble_rouser on August 2, 2005, at 14:18:45

I was an atheist too.. and I tried all the other methods of being happy, and I finally realized that none of them worked for me. It was hard for me to visualize myself as being part of something higher, when I didn't have a clear understanding of what that something higher was.

So I changed myself into a believer - purely because it helped me mentally to trust in a person.

But everyone has a different path. There are other non-believers who seem to be quite ok.

> Dear Pinkeye,
>
> Spot on! Thats what I was driving at. I'm an atheist and a bit of a geek, so I put it in somewhat overly-wordy format .. thank you for bringing some eloquence! I think its possible to take the essence of what you said, no matter what your beliefs - that we are all the children of something greater than our individual parts, and worthy of love - especially our own.
>
> :)
>
> Ross

 

Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem.

Posted by deborah anne lott on August 3, 2005, at 10:32:35

In reply to Lott: My T never taught me self esteem., posted by Angela2 on August 1, 2005, at 17:22:45

Hmmm, sounds like your therapist might think that if you behave like someone who has self-esteem, you might begin to feel like someone who has self-esteem. Sometimes it works to "fake it till you make it," but whether it works or not, it sounds like that's what's motivating your therapist.

 

Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem.

Posted by rabble_rouser on August 3, 2005, at 15:23:51

In reply to Re: Lott: My T never taught me self esteem. » rabble_rouser, posted by Angela2 on August 2, 2005, at 14:08:02

You are very welcome, Angela. I wish you all the best!

Ross


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