Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 1466

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Redirect: responding to a posting Staylor

Posted by Dr. Bob on November 7, 2003, at 2:25:44

In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Staylor on November 5, 2003, at 20:45:16

> I was responding to a posting in which I was put down and felt accused. The direct quote was "I dont want to be rude here but it appears to me that a little knowledge could be a dangerous thing!!" Isn't that accusatory? Why didn't "mywayorthehighway" receive the same reprimand?

I replied over at PBA:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20031008/msgs/277380.html

Bob

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by kara lynne on November 7, 2003, at 13:40:17

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:33:38

--The process was the first therapy I had ever experienced---

Just a thought: maybe this lended itself to the experience being so effective for you.

Maybe not, but just a thought.

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 16:52:17

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 6, 2003, at 8:44:57

Im glad the process worked for you. You seem to be very committed to it, and I do not want to take that away from you or anyone else. I do want people to sign up for The Process with their eyes wide open. The Hoffman Institute is very secretive as to what happens during that week, and who is going to train you.

I am a little bit more conservative. If I am going to turn my mental health over to some one for eight days and seven nights without any contact with the outside world including my support system, I would want to make sure that it is to a trained and licensed mental health care professional. With a licensed professional, one can usually expect that certain ethics and standards will apply.

My other concern is that the Hoffman website lists three research finds on The Process. The first one is an independent study that has not been published yet, the second one was written by a Hoffman Graduate, and the last one was written by a Hoffman board member. I would be interested to read the first study once it has finally been published.

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 16:52:17

Why?

I just do not understand why you feel the need to protect people from something you have no real knowledge of! I would love to know why!!! You say that you want them to sign up "with their eyes wide open" - Why?

The secrecy is something you would understand if you had done the process. Its part of the brilliance of the process.

Do I detect that you feel excluded by the secrecy? and because of that exclusion have pre-judged the process?

Of course I could be wrong - and please do not feel I am attacking you here - I do genuinely believe that the process is right for some and not for others - but only they can decide that!!

If it helps why not look at

http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/articles/results.htm

The Windhausen Study
The Caldwell Report
The Candate Report
The Professionals Speak

That might help

Love

Piers

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by Staylor on November 7, 2003, at 18:58:09

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53

The Windhausen Study - Was written by Christiane Windhausen of Hoffman Institute Dusseldorf

The Caldwell Report - Isn't a research finding. This is the psychological profiling questionnaire that you complete before you take The Process. The questionnaire/ report was developed in the Alex Caldwell in the late sixties. According to their website www.caldwellreport.com, the report profiles an individual and "specifies characteristics and predictions".

The Candate Report - Was written by Alison Candate, Hoffman Graduate. This was her thesis for her degree from JFK University. She is also employeed by Hoffman Canada.

> Why?
>
> I just do not understand why you feel the need to protect people from something you have no real knowledge of! I would love to know why!!! You say that you want them to sign up "with their eyes wide open" - Why?
>
> The secrecy is something you would understand if you had done the process. Its part of the brilliance of the process.
>
> Do I detect that you feel excluded by the secrecy? and because of that exclusion have pre-judged the process?
>
> Of course I could be wrong - and please do not feel I am attacking you here - I do genuinely believe that the process is right for some and not for others - but only they can decide that!!
>
> If it helps why not look at
>
> http://www.hoffmaninstitute.co.uk/articles/results.htm
>
> The Windhausen Study
> The Caldwell Report
> The Candate Report
> The Professionals Speak
>
> That might help
>
>
>
> Love
>
> Piers
>

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process mywayorthehighway

Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2003, at 19:01:39

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by mywayorthehighway on November 7, 2003, at 17:23:53

My only concern would be the potential for decompensation that sometimes occurs with intensive programs. It's not unheard of for people to have a psychotic break.

I think I'd rather have trained professionals on hand to keep an eye out for that sort of thing.

Just my thoughts. Never have done the Process.

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 13:36:03

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process mywayorthehighway, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2003, at 19:01:39

I did the process last year & was devastated by it. Now I know why we spent so much time filling out forms saying we would not sue! It tore away all my coping skills, I had to go on bi-polar meds, & could not function for several months afterwards...definitely not for everyone. I really regret doing it.

> My only concern would be the potential for decompensation that sometimes occurs with intensive programs. It's not unheard of for people to have a psychotic break.
>
> I think I'd rather have trained professionals on hand to keep an eye out for that sort of thing.
>
> Just my thoughts. Never have done the Process.

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by Newcomer on August 3, 2004, at 15:08:36

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 13:36:03

That sounds like a real ordeal you went through. I was very keen to do the process last year but decided not to because it isn't something you can just try for a few hours then decide whether it's right for you. My worry was always that I would be overwhelmed by it and fall apart, in which case, would they be able to put me back together again?

I'm having some personal turmoil right now and strangely, was thinking today for the first time in ages that maybe I should have a rethink about doing it. I guess your posting is a sign for me not to. Can I ask you how it took away your coping skills?

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 15:33:21

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by Newcomer on August 3, 2004, at 15:08:36

It was quite an ordeal that I'm still digging my way out of. I'd be happy to tell you ALL about it, including all the activities we did. I do not feel protective about revealing their methods. That may be better to do off-list, but I am not sure how to write to someone off-list here.

The process seemed to tear away my ego (ie: coping skills) so violently there was nothing left to hang onto when I got back home. I couldn't work or function, and was a crying mess. BUT, my experience is VERY unusual I hear, & I would love to find some people who had a disastrous experience with the process like I had. They SAY they are putting you back together again, but it did not happen for me.

> That sounds like a real ordeal you went through. I was very keen to do the process last year but decided not to because it isn't something you can just try for a few hours then decide whether it's right for you. My worry was always that I would be overwhelmed by it and fall apart, in which case, would they be able to put me back together again?
>
> I'm having some personal turmoil right now and strangely, was thinking today for the first time in ages that maybe I should have a rethink about doing it. I guess your posting is a sign for me not to. Can I ask you how it took away your coping skills?

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process

Posted by Newcomer on August 4, 2004, at 6:28:02

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 15:33:21

That's awful, seems like you're doing your best to get through it. I can't remember where, but I heard of someone else who had similar problems, not as bad as you though. It's something I'll have to rule out for myself, even mainstream therapy had a profound negative effect on me when I first started it and I was barely able to function for a while.

Take care.

 

Re: I did the Hoffman process marshak

Posted by HazelMae on November 17, 2004, at 8:17:24

In reply to Re: I did the Hoffman process, posted by marshak on August 3, 2004, at 13:36:03

Hello Marshak,
I am interested in the Hoffman Process but have some very serious misgivings. You indicated a willingness to speak more about your experience with it, and I was hoping you could help me see the possible shortcomings of the process. There seem to be a lot of people willing to talk about the benefits of the program.
Thanks.

 

Re: Love with therapist

Posted by alecar on May 20, 2005, at 9:43:55

In reply to Love with therapist Stamper, posted by Dr. Bob on November 6, 2002, at 7:52:52

I am really, really, attracted to my therapist. He is smart, good-looking, and yes he does make me feel safe. I have told him how I feel, but he says he can't be with me because it would not be ethical. Shouldn't the choice of relationship be between us. I'm not a kid. I'm not a threat to him or myself. All we do is shoot the breeze.

It makes me mad I can't explore the possiblity of his being my soulmate because we met under the context of therapy. I wish we could do what we wanted!!!

 

Re: Love with therapist alecar

Posted by pegasus on May 20, 2005, at 16:30:32

In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by alecar on May 20, 2005, at 9:43:55

Yes this is a common feeling around here. Keep in mind, though, that it's not just an arbitrary, external rule that therapists shouldn't get involved with their clients. It's because of the nature of the therapy relationship, which is not balanced like romantic relationships should be. You therapist has a lot more power in the relationship than you do, because you're the one talking about your life. Also, therapists do tend to inspire these types of feelings, because of their role in therapy, which is different than a role as a partner. If you developed a romantic relationship, that dynamic would almost inevitably be dragged in, creating a very unhealthy scenario for you. That's why it's considered unethical, in a nutshell.

I'd really recommend that you read "In Session", which is all about these types of longings and other issues that come up with therapist-client relationships. We're actually in the middle of a psychobabble book discussion on that book, if you'd like to check out that thread.

good luck
pegasus

 

Re: Love with therapist alecar

Posted by Tamar on May 20, 2005, at 17:16:41

In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by alecar on May 20, 2005, at 9:43:55

Im familiar with those feelings of attraction! I was very attracted to my therapist too (I still think hes attractive, but Ive finished therapy now).

The ethical prohibition on relationships between therapists and clients can feel harsh and unfair and paternalistic. But its necessary to prevent clients from getting seriously hurt. If therapy leads to romantic or sexual contact between the therapist and the client, it usually ends in tears because there are all sorts of complicated dynamics going on in therapy (like transference).

Can you keep talking about it with your T? Its a horrible feeling to be so attracted with no hope of reciprocation, but it should get easier if you can talk it through.

 

Re: Love with therapist alecar

Posted by Susan47 on May 20, 2005, at 18:48:13

In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by alecar on May 20, 2005, at 9:43:55

Okay, that's just really weird. Why do you think your therapist wants to be with you? Why doesn't he just out and out say, I'm not attracted to you that way, or, (and this should actually be written IN STONE, it should be a requirement of therapy that clients see this at the very beginning of therapy, and sign that they've been adequately informed) "In therapy, a client commonly has feelings of love and sometimes other types of feelings, towards the therapist...." and other stuff, like, the therapist believes it's best to allow the feelins to surface and to talk about them. To stress the importance of the ability to talk about these issues, on both sides, and that eventually the client can expect his or her feelings towards the therapist to change, but in the meantime to remember that there can be absolutely no outside contact between therapist and client, it's unethical in the profession...blah blah blah whatever has to be said, whatever way it's done, to adequately prepare us for what May come ... but you know, some fool would challenge that, as in, that's the power of suggestion, it's leading the potential client on, no you can't take that risk.
Whatever.
The ethics of therapy has a long way to go.

 

Re: Love with therapist alecar

Posted by Susan47 on May 20, 2005, at 19:16:02

In reply to Re: Love with therapist, posted by alecar on May 20, 2005, at 9:43:55

The desire to be loved back, in return, is so unbelievably strong. It's intensity is fierce, and even today the thought that he might have loved me back makes me tremble, just shake, and then the physical pain in my arms and shoulders comes. I loved him so much. It's just unbelievable how I felt about him. Lonely and frightening, and unbelievably intense, and the only thing that assuaged me at all, was being able to use the telephone. The phone, it was my lifeline, and he used it as a threat, a weapon. Don't phone me anymore. Don't come by. You may write letters, and even though I say I will answer your questions, I will only choose to answer those that I wish, and I do not guarantee you my honesty. Remember, I am not the one with the need for a therapist.

And when the worst of it comes, when you need me the most, that is the time I will choose to draw away from you, and I will not do it gradually. I will do it quickly, fiercely, yet lightly, for this can have no importance to me. I will diminish you in five seconds. Because I choose. I am the master. I.
Best Wishes.
your therapist

 

My Goodness. Susan don't do this to yourself Susan47

Posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 19:33:05

In reply to Re: Love with therapist alecar, posted by Susan47 on May 20, 2005, at 19:16:02

Don't try to make your T a villain. You know he is not. It is not serving any good purpose - neither for you nor for him.

He didn't intend to hurt you. And if he has intended that, he wouldn't have gone into this profession in the first place.

He perhaps made a mistake.. many therapists do, and it hurts the client, but don't make out more of it than what it is.

I think if you develop this attitude more, it is going to be incredibly hard for you to heal well. You are always going to be very bitter and angry, and you don't want to have those feelings towards the one person who tried to help you.

My 2 cents.

 

Re: therapist revelations

Posted by Jazzed on May 20, 2005, at 21:27:36

In reply to Re: therapist revelations Newcomer, posted by fallsfall on August 21, 2003, at 14:50:20

> That sounds like it was difficult. I would think that you would also have the option of seeing a different therapist to work it through. I had a painful transference, and my therapist didn't seem to understand what was happening. I switched therapists, and very quickly (6 weeks and again today - 2 months) I had the same transference with him. The difference is that he is a Psychodynamic therapist - they "do" transference, where as my old therapist was CBT. I'm not saying CBT therapists can't do transference, but it is not their focus like it is for the Psychodynamic therapists. What kind of therapy was your therapist doing?
>
> My only other comment is that they can't help if they don't know what is going on. Somehow (and this can be really hard) you have to find a way to trust them.
>
> Good luck. This stuff is really hard.

I don't know where I read it, but I read somewhere on the web, I think, that the faster you develop transference, the more likly you are to be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. I develop them really quickly too,and I fall in love, but I'd deny the heck out of it to a T, at least until an adequate amount of time had passed. ARGH!!! I think what it is for me is that they seem so "normal", so smart, so level headed, and of course, they listen to EVERYTHING we say! Like the perfect husband! My husband has all of those attributes, except I don't have his undivided attention. With four kids, and we're all ADD, how could I expect that, but to his credit, he doesn't work 12 hour days like the shrink!

Jazzed

 

Re: therapist revelations

Posted by Jazzed on May 20, 2005, at 21:34:16

In reply to Re: therapist revelations Newcomer, posted by fallsfall on August 21, 2003, at 19:07:54

> >
> When I was looking for my new therapist, I interviewed a number of people. I asked one whether, since my transference was for my mother, I should choose a man or woman. He said "Choose a good therapist". He was the therapist I chose. I find it really interesting that the transference I have now is for my dad - not my mother. He has said that it really doesn't matter what the sex of the therapist is - that the transference will occur anyway.
>
I've had male and female T's and never had transference with a female T, but always with the male T's. With the females I've always just felt they were there for insight, and they always did have great insight, but with the men I always seemed to fall in love, with the exception of my first shrink, he was a horror.
Wish I didn't fall in love, makes it really tough to leave. I love it and I hate it at the same time. I hate that it makes me feel more dependent, but because I understand what's going on now, maybe it will be more manageable.

Jazzed

 

Re: My Goodness. Susan don't do this to yourself pinkeye

Posted by Susan47 on May 23, 2005, at 14:52:23

In reply to My Goodness. Susan don't do this to yourself Susan47, posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 19:33:05

That just makes me sound so ungrateful, and I'm not. Neither was he the one person who wanted to help me. I had many people who did help me, and I was there for myself when I needed it the most, I was always there for myself, because I did what I had to do, and that's what life is really all about. So yes, he helped, he taught me to take care of myself, and I'm doing that and I'm doing it really well for the first time ever. I'm functional, I'm a real, functional, lovely human being, and my problems are all solvable. Ta-dah. Yes, maybe he learned something, maybe I learned a hell of a lot more.

 

Re: My Goodness. Susan don't do this to yourself Susan47

Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 16:01:07

In reply to Re: My Goodness. Susan don't do this to yourself pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on May 23, 2005, at 14:52:23

I didn't mean it as ungrateful. Just that there is some wrong way you perceive things.

 

Re: Love with therapist Susan47

Posted by JenStar on May 23, 2005, at 18:55:34

In reply to Re: Love with therapist alecar, posted by Susan47 on May 20, 2005, at 19:16:02

oh Susan,
your words DO sound so bitter, angry, and unhappy! I wish it were not this way for you!

I've been reading the boards off and on for the past year, and truthfully it almost seems as if your feelings for your ex-T are getting stronger and more distilled into love/hate than ever. I could be wrong, of course (and hope I am.)

What do you think it would take to get this man out of your mind entirely?

take care!
JenStar

 

Re: Love with therapist JenStar

Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 19:06:36

In reply to Re: Love with therapist Susan47, posted by JenStar on May 23, 2005, at 18:55:34

I agree fully with JenStar.

Except that I think your feelings are not really about your Ex T. You are projecting stuff on to him. And it won't help you really to try to get him out of your mind. But it would really help if you could try to understand yourself where this anger/bitterness is coming from and try to heal the source of it. No use trying to deal with symptoms when you need to cure the root cause. Otehrwise, I am pretty sure you will project this on to someone else.

My experience with myself has taught me the above thing.

 

Re: Love with therapist JenStar

Posted by Susan47 on May 24, 2005, at 19:08:14

In reply to Re: Love with therapist Susan47, posted by JenStar on May 23, 2005, at 18:55:34

He would have to sit down with me and tell me exactly what my misperceptions were.

 

Re: Love with therapist: Anger, *trigger*

Posted by Susan47 on May 24, 2005, at 19:13:00

In reply to Re: Love with therapist JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 19:06:36

Ever noticed how a lot of my stuff has to do with attractiveness and confidence? Ever had your father look at you leeringly? So that you were afraid to be yourself? Ever had unwanted male attention? Attention you don't feel you warrant? Ever had male attention that you DID want and then were unable to act upon it, because you were taught to be completely passive? Women must not make the first move. Women must be passive and submissive. They must wait until the male comes to them. You take what you can get, not what you really want.
I'm angry all right. Did you know that a look can feel abusive? Do you know that the wrong words can be hurtful? Do you know what it feels like to feel like the ghost of your manipulative, violent, sex-crazed father is always staring at you, leering away, wanting to have sex with you but knowing he can't?
So maybe it was a fleeting moment, but damn it, he replayed it. And he's not my father. But he took the role, and like my father, he deserted me when I needed him.


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