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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:10:45
Well, I had a rought start to my session today. There were 5 - 6 power lawn movers moving across the lawn of her office building. I felt I was lying next to an airport landing strip. It was so loud, so hard, so distracting and I asked for my T to help me get started. She wasn't much help. It quieted down after 5 or so minutes (seemed like eternity).
When I felt comfortable (and safe)again, I told her about this conference I attended in the morning. The superintendent of schools was introducing the main speaker. Long story short, the "super" was a giant BLAH. So boring, so monotone ... sounded like an idiot. I think he successfully put 200 parents to sleep. My T replied, "you are harsh".
OUCH ... just open that wound with a knife! She could of said, "that was a harsh comment" or "you sound kind of harsh this afternoon" but no, she said that I WAS HARSH. And went on to say, "You know you are harsh and I think it has to do with the dynamics of your family xxx, yyy, zzz."
I'm hurt and mad. Yes, there are moments when I can tell a story and be harsh, but at my core, I consider myself a kind, patient and generous person. It certainly doesn't define me as a person. Yes, I'm to the point, but I'm not mean. So when I came home I called her. That did take some courage on my part. I let her do most of the talking. She didn't seem too comfortable and kept saying, "we can talk about this next week." I hate when they say that. I told her, "I think you were harsh with me. And my feelings are hurt." She vaguely apologized. And encouraged me to talk to her next week.
Uggggh! I hate moments like this. It sends me running.
Posted by katherpoo1 on April 14, 2005, at 16:27:06
In reply to Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:10:45
Yow-zah! I would be hurt if my T said that too! Sounds like plain old judgement to me. Bah! :(
GOOD FOR YOU for getting to the courage to call and speak your mind. She needed immediate feedback on how she made you feel. No sense in letting that fester inside you all the way into next week. No matter what she said in response, you stood up for yourself and in any "relationship" that's important. You did NOT run from it. *pat on back*
Now, I wish I knew you better (newbie... trying to find "my place here, with limited success :( ) ...what can you do about finding that band-aid?
A list of self-validations? You know, things you love and value about yourself? Sounds cheesy maybe but I can tell in your post that you know you're a good person... expand on that, perhaps?
Good luck -
kat
Posted by partlycloudy on April 14, 2005, at 16:37:31
In reply to Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:10:45
How long have you been seeing this therapist - do you think you're being understood completely when you meet or do find that you have to keep explaining yourself?
Sometimes we just don't *mesh* with our T's - I had one who felt like I was playing 20 questions every time we met. Dropped him like a hot potato!
pc
Posted by Shortelise on April 14, 2005, at 16:43:00
In reply to Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 15:10:45
I think she said the wrong thing. Really. I think you're right. And you have every right to say the speaker put 200 parents to sleep if he was boring. And you even are allowed to say it in a harsh manner. Your T might better have said, well, it sounds like... blah blah blah.
THere are so many facets to this sort of thing happenein in therapy.
First of all, there's what you said and how you said it. That the basic thing, and you brought it up in therapy for some reason.
Then there's your T's reaction.
You're reaction to what she said is a big deal - very important part of therapy. Maybe she was having a bad day - everyone does, right? - and said the wrong thing. But how you react to that, how the two of you resolve it, is the most important thing.
Why do we go into therapy? I'm not well-versed in this sort of stuff, but for a lot of us, I think it's inter-personal problems. So, when you hit on a problem with your T, there is is, front and center, how are you going to sort this out?
Do you look at her acorss the room and say, gee, doc, that's not like you. Are you having a bad day?
Do you phone later, and say, were you having a bad day today?
Do you look across the room and say, hey, don't call me names?
Do you phone and say, I feel badly about something you said to me today?
Do you go and throw rocks at her window?
Do you wonder if she said that on purpose to get a reation?
Do you phone and leave a message and quit?
You see, we have so many choices. Mine, a few years ago, would have been to phone him and and say, WHY DID YOU TELL ME I"M HARSH? (Lot of sobbing) Now that I've worked out that most of the stupid things people say are more about what they are going through than what I am doing, I am more likely to either talk about it when it happens or call later and talk calmly - or even more likely I will wait until the next session, but this is just a fluke - I am somehow going through a period where therapy has worked and I calm.
So, here's the best band aid I can come up with: this is an opportunity for you to understand yourself a little better, to grow, and to learn how this sort of thing affects you. It's what therapy is for. And when our T's make mistakes and say the wrong thing, it presents us with an opportunity to see how we deal with that, with them, with ourselves, and our feelings. It's great. It's like, my mother says things that are really hurtful and I can't talk with her about them. But with my shrink, I can say, you said, blah blah, and I felt blah blah, then you said blah, why? We can knock it down and drag it out. I can go through all the feelings I want, all I need to, I can explore the depth and breadth of all of them, and I come out of the other side with so much a better understanding of myself.
Maybe when T's make this kind of blunder, they wait until the two of you have hashed it out before they apologize, because it is such rich fodder for therapy.
In summer there are always people gardening with loud machines around my T's building. I tell him I have bad noise karma. We've never dealt with that. Maybe I need to see a buddhist.
Hugs
ShortE
Posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 19:22:01
In reply to Re: Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by Shortelise on April 14, 2005, at 16:43:00
Shortelise, Party Cloudy and Kather -
Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate coming back from shuttling my kids to and from soccer practice to some sound babble advice.ShortE - I think you have given me lots of things to ponder. I did think during all the "motor" noise, that she wasn't her usual kind self. Normally if I tell her I'm uncomfortable (too loud, too hot, too cold, etc.) she goes out of her way to make me feel more cozy. But she sat there and said nothing. And I thought to myself, I wonder if she is having a bad day. I thought that within 5 minutes of being there.
I see her 3 times a week, so I know her pretty well. The session went downhill from there, when I talked about the middleschool conference. Looking back, I wish I did ask her, "are you having a bad day?". Instead I kept telling her that I felt agitated and judged.
I do think that the relationship with the therapist, is the main part of therapy. I agree with you 100%. We'll need to trudge through this session and understand each other's perspective and how and why I felt criticized.
To answer pc and kp: I do feel my T understands me. I like her very much. We have worked together twice. 20 years ago for 4+ years, and recently, just over a year. We can complete each other sentences sometimes and I do feel a connection with her.
BUT ... I must admit a part of me is scared. I don't feel quite as comfortable. I normally lie down, but will probably sit next Monday. I'll need to see her to feel sure of her again. Non-verbal cues can be so important and are missed when I am lieing down.
I hope I can let this go and enjoy the weekend. I'll need a solid night of sleep!!
-Annierose
Posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 20:51:59
In reply to Re: Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by katherpoo1 on April 14, 2005, at 16:27:06
Thank you for all your encouragement. I didn't have time earlier to replie to each of you ... had to help with homework, then bedtime.
Welcome to babble.
Reading other posters, has helped me face my fears in therapy. I realize that lots of us have similar worries, and most of all, it helps to share these feelings with our Ts.
I'll let you know how my session goes on Monday! Seems a long way away.
-Annierose
Posted by daisym on April 15, 2005, at 13:58:02
In reply to Re: Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego? » katherpoo1, posted by annierose on April 14, 2005, at 20:51:59
Annie,
I think you already have applied the band-aid you needed -- writing it out, calling her and not letting it get overwhelmingly big. And, you recognize that it could be (probably is) as much about a bad day as anything else. She hasn't stopped liking you and she doesn't want to stop working with you -- but it sure feels that way sometimes, doesn't it?
I often think that I would hate to be a therapist...they are so closely watched by their clients, any twitch, gas pain or innocent sigh is interpreted, analyzed and judged by us to the nth degree!
I hope you do have a good weekend.
Posted by annierose on April 15, 2005, at 15:07:59
In reply to Re: Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego?, posted by daisym on April 15, 2005, at 13:58:02
So true, so true.
When I read your reply, "she doesn't want to stop working with you" ... I think, deep down, that is my fear. You hit the nail on the head. I'll have to share that with her, thank you. Babble friends can sure figure this therapy stuff out!!
I hope things are feeling better for you too. You deserve a break and some freedom from your pain.
Annierose
Posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 16:22:22
In reply to Re: Band-aide anyone for a bruised ego? » daisym, posted by annierose on April 15, 2005, at 15:07:59
I feel a little like GG in her post below. I feel like I lost my safe place too. My T and I tried to work out what happened last Thursday, and IMO, she made it worse.
I think one of the inherent problems with therapy, the client tends to talk mostly about difficulties and problems that they experienced (past & present). It's a distorted picture of the person. And it doesn't account for the functional (& happy) parts of the client.
So when I tell my stories to my T, I tend to do so with my sense of humor, my cadence to my sentences ... which, being the Italian girl I am ... is a little on the fast, loud and embellished side.
Last Thursday she told me I was harsh. And, trying to be a grown-up and learn from her observations, I did take her comments to heart. But most doesn't ring true to me. In discussing this with her today, she told me "you hate quickly". WHAT THE HECKERS??? I may make the comment, "oh I hate that" ... but it's just an expression I have used, I don't have ownership of HATE towards that subject, i.e. the feelings don't usually run that deep with 95% of the things I might say in passing, "I hate that." She was referring to my comment "I hate that noise" ... well, who likes the sound of 5 - 7 lawn mowers blasting in their ear during the quiet place of my therapy?? It was intrusive to my session time.
The more she kept trying to help me understand her point of view, the bigger the hole she was digging. I told her I felt criticized, and judged. On the one hand, she wants me to feel comfortable and open up, but when I do, in my opinion, she judges me harshly. This is new. So then I wonder, is she trying to push me into thinking about my behavior. Do I think it's a problem for me? Maybe just a little when I come across people that do not know me well, may think I come on strong.
I spoke with my husband and best friend about this entire situation. My husband said that he doesn't think of me as harsh, just honest. I'm pretty straightforward in my life, what you see is what you get. No false pretenses. But I'm not rude.
Now I'm more confused than ever. My safe room is now filled with a doubting therapist and client. I usually lie down, but today I sat up for 15 minutes, then lied down with eyes wide open, and angry for the remainer of the time. I do go tomorrow, and I will just sit the entire time. I'm mad. I'm hurt.
These relationships are so darn HARD.
Annierose
Posted by gardenergirl on April 18, 2005, at 17:13:27
In reply to Re: Now I need a giant ace bandage!!, posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 16:22:22
Can we just go together and sit and pout? Or throw a tantrum? That's what I feel like doing. At least at the moment.
Sorry it got worse. Perhaps it's a full moon of sorts for T's? (Oh, wait a minute......lemme re-think that...only for fully licensed T's?) :D
(((((annierose))))))
gg
Posted by Dinah on April 18, 2005, at 17:13:47
In reply to Re: Now I need a giant ace bandage!!, posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 16:22:22
That fighting to relationship can leave us bruised and battered.
I suppose you asked "Why?" I think I'd need to ask "Why?" a million times.
When I found out my therapist thought I was schizotypal, it hurt and hurt. I asked why for months. In different ways and on different levels.
Good heavens. The things I've gotten through with that man. I must have an inordinate sense of commitment. No... I've ditched tons of mental health providers.
It's inexplicable. But worth it.
I hope it's worth it for you as well.
Posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 17:17:39
In reply to Re: Now I need a giant ace bandage!! » annierose, posted by gardenergirl on April 18, 2005, at 17:13:27
The tantrum sounds like a splendid idea! You know, I think you're on to something. It's just about the right age for how I'm feeling.
The kids are off to their sport activites, hubby took them, I have the house to myself, I'm blasting the stero, singing (badly) and surfing the net. Grown-up version of childhood tantrum.
Posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 17:25:57
In reply to Re: Now I need a giant ace bandage!! » annierose, posted by Dinah on April 18, 2005, at 17:13:47
I think this theraputic relationship is worth fighting for. I just hate the process ... oops ... there's is that "hate" word again ... you see, I just use all the time.
My husband told me at dinner time, that I use the word "love" even more often. (Sometimes, he can be a cutie, it reminds me why I married him). As in "oh, I love that." That's the perspective the therapist doesn't see, to complete the picture. My emotions run both ways, full of exuberance.
Dinah - I don't think I did ask her "why". Thank you. I'll ask tomorrow. You guys are the best!!
-Annierose
Posted by Dinah on April 18, 2005, at 17:51:51
In reply to Re: Now I need a giant ace bandage!! » Dinah, posted by annierose on April 18, 2005, at 17:25:57
That must have felt like a soothing balm.
Posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 13:22:34
In reply to What a sweetie!! » annierose, posted by Dinah on April 18, 2005, at 17:51:51
There's hope. It only took 2 sessions of re-hashing last Thursday over and over again, down to every sentence, response and answer given, but I finally got an apology today. It feels good.
I'm proud of myself because I didn't revert into old behaviors of 20 years ago when I first saw this T. I didn't quit, walk out mid-session or write an "I'm so mad at you" letter. (Mind you, I'm only 43 now) Instead, I kept my appointments and talked about why I was feeling hurt. I think it came down to feeling that she didn't like me anymore (afterall, she called me harsh and quick to hate).
Today, after going through it all, she could see why I felt that, but that she felt the opposite about me, that I was very loving and kind (and I think a couple of other good adjectives that I'm forgetting ... darn). That as a T, it was her job to point out certain "layers" to my style and conversation patterns that were "extra" (intensity, for instance). I do understand the point she was trying to make. And I'm ashamed to admit, she is right. But my point to her was it doesn't define who I am as a person, just a very small part.
And it's that small wounded part of me, my T is trying to heal.
And so it goes ... I'm glad I had the support of my babble friends (and IRL friends too) to work through this with my T.
To gg, I have my safe place back. I did tell her when I first walked in that it was gone. She wanted to know what was standing in the way of getting it back, and I wanted to say "You", but instead focused on my hurt feelings. I hope you get your safe haven back on Thursday too. You deserve it!!
Posted by 10derHeart on April 19, 2005, at 16:17:02
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :), posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 13:22:34
I think that's excellent, annierose. Love when I read these kinds of posts here. They are so encouraging. Hope you are proud of yourself for seeing how different you are in your own response. Feels good, doesn't it?
I'm going through just some disconnection with my T. right now - he's being great about it, but we are still a little stuck after two sessions trying to talk it through. Nothing like the level of what the stuff she said felt like for you (at first), but you know, sometimes every *dip* or *bump* in the relationship can feel scary and weird.
Tomorow morning will be a major, "can we figure out why we aren't working together as well.." session for me. So it was the best thing to read this post from you just now. Hope you two keep going strong....
Posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 16:41:24
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :), posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 13:22:34
Fighting to relationship. It's really such an intensely moving process for me. Unpleasant while it's going on, to be sure. But such a terrific feeling to get to the other side, and feel like the relationship is a teeny bit deeper and more precious than it was before.
Good work on both of your parts.
Posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 16:42:04
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :) » annierose, posted by 10derHeart on April 19, 2005, at 16:17:02
Good luck to you tomorrow. Let us know how it goes?
Posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2005, at 17:04:30
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :), posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 13:22:34
>
> I'm proud of myself because I didn't revert into old behaviors of 20 years ago when I first saw this T. I didn't quit, walk out mid-session or write an "I'm so mad at you" letter. (Mind you, I'm only 43 now) Instead, I kept my appointments and talked about why I was feeling hurt.Good for you! I will think of you if I start getting off-kilter Thursday. What a great model...Woohoo. There's hope for us all.
> And it's that small wounded part of me, my T is trying to heal.
I think that part of me is what's being upset bigtime, too. It's nice to even be able to recognize you have that part, let alone trust someone to help you heal it.
>
>
> To gg, I have my safe place back. I did tell her when I first walked in that it was gone. She wanted to know what was standing in the way of getting it back, and I wanted to say "You", but instead focused on my hurt feelings. I hope you get your safe haven back on Thursday too. You deserve it!!Thank you so much for adding this. I admit I looked at your post right away for inspiration. Good for you for sticking with your feelings, because I so want to say "you you you you" to him. I hope I get my safe place back too, or at least get the process going.
Thanks and I'm so glad you worked through this. It sure didn't sound easy.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2005, at 17:05:22
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :) » annierose, posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 16:41:24
Dinah,
I was reminded of your fighting to relationship thread from the past when I was thinking about what Thursday might be like. Thanks for reminding me how important that is.gg
Posted by 10derHeart on April 19, 2005, at 17:19:19
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :) » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on April 19, 2005, at 16:42:04
I'll try. You're sweet to ask.
I dunno. I haven't even posted about these feelings and they've been happening for maybe 3-4 weeks. I just find words fail me sometimes on this topic. This T. is harder for me to get a *feel* for than old T. Yet, I sense we do fit well together. Just not right at this moment.
Maybe it's like having a low-grade fever as opposed to a dangerously high one. I'm not rushing to the therapy-relationship ER yet, not at all, but the constant, small fever has begun to wear me down. I wanted it fixed quickly :-(
Yes, I think I'll *make* myself post about it tomorrow. I know I'll feel better if I do.
Posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 17:24:08
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :) » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on April 19, 2005, at 17:19:19
Please do 10derheart - it's amazing by hashing it out here and getting some feedback can help you with the issue in therapy. I hope we be a source of support.
Posted by annierose on April 19, 2005, at 17:31:00
In reply to Re: Update: Hard won apology given :) » annierose, posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2005, at 17:04:30
It does feel good to come out the other side. Thanks to everyone for their support and advice. It means a great deal to me, you're the best!!
I think Dinah should write a book (because she is the awesome writer of the group) called "Fighting for Relationship". And we could be your case studies. There's another career opportunity awaiting you.
And I'll be thinking of you on Thursday GG. I hope you can get the process started too. I still don't understand what he was saying about medical depression vs. emotional. Do you?
-- Oh, and I did mention to my T that I felt like a 9 year old girl and I wanted to throw a tantrum (thanks for letting me borrow your thoughts).-Annierose
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