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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:19:56
In reply to Redirect: administrative issues, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2004, at 1:15:47
I talked to my T tonight about the letter I gave him. Our conversation was cut short because he was meeting with his friend Paul. He said there is still a lot that we need to talk about. He reassured me that we was not going to leave me and that he actually agreed with a lot of the things that I wrote. God, I am so angry. Should I be grateful that he's not going to leave me??? Please. I asked him if he could honestly tell me that we would never be together again and he said "no, thats part of the problem". I want him to suffer and hurt like I am. He says he loves me very much....is this how you show it, by hurting me just like every other man in my life???? Am I supposed to feel special??? F*ck him. My friend said that he is hurting and he does love me that he's not like the other men. She told me I need to grow up. Maybe, but right now I am just too torn. I want to know what is going on in his marraige that he is never home. What's with that? Is his wife playing susie homemaker while he goes out with his buddies or is his marraige on the rocks? Maybe it is none of my business, but I used to wonder when he was still laying in bed with me at 2am. Get this, I was apologizing to him for feeling the way I am. Everything has always been about him. I want him to see how bad I hurt. I want to.... awh, whats the use... Im drunk and angry. A lethal combination. F*ck him and f*ck me for falling for it all..... I dont know what will become of me..of us. Who cares.......................................How do you like me now????? Sometimes I just feel like nothing matters, including my life. Yah, if I took that maybe then he'd have to own up to his part. Love just isnt worth the pain. I can create enough of that in my own life, I dont need his help. F*ck it. F*ck him, F*ck life in general, Im sick of trying to get better and fight for what????? Maybe when I sober up tomorrow I will feel differntly....NOT
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:21:53
In reply to Re: my T, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:19:56
Why wont you respond to me??? Do you really exist?
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2004, at 7:42:42
In reply to Re:Dr.Bob, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:21:53
It's nothing personal, Jadah. This board is designed for us to support and educate each other. Dr. Bob is only involved on an administrative basis.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 12:38:50
In reply to Re: my T, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:19:56
You did a really hard and courageous thing- stopping the sex. But, it's so sad to say, there's something even harder ahead of you- stopping seeing him. Every feeling you have- the love, the rage, disappointment, continuing need and dependency- is what everyone would have. Could you gradually start interviewing other therapists, taking your time, and making sure you find one who really feels right for you? Anyone in your situation would need to process all these extremely painful feelings at length. But you can't do it with him- you really need a new person whom you can feel safe and trusting with. Just the facts that you and he shared love, and that you had the health and strength to realize it was better for you to stop it means to me that you have a promising life ahead of you- you will do all these things again with a man who is yours. Don't waste any more time on this *******!
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2004, at 13:45:41
In reply to Re:Dr.Bob » Jadah, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2004, at 7:42:42
Posted by gardenergirl on September 19, 2004, at 13:56:37
In reply to Re: my T » Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 12:38:50
Posted by kindgirl on September 19, 2004, at 14:55:48
In reply to Re: my T » Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 12:38:50
Jadah,
My heart is in agony with you in this!! I have read everything so far, and I have been thinking about it a lot.
I think you need to cut off all communication with him as soon as possible. He is just stringing you along. No matter HOW wonderful he is...HOW great a therapist he is, or how great a lover he is, you are torturing yourself by prolonging this. I am so sorry.It is not for me to tell you what to do...but it is like watching a dog get hit by a car over and over again. I really believe in the bottom of my heart that this will just hurt you more, and I don't want that! Dump him for good. If he is meant to be for you, then it will work out. You can't sit and wait for him the rest of your life. I know, I have been there with a married man before. It just prolonged my agony by hoping we could get back together. :( He never left his wife...my dream never did come true...
I just hate to see you suffer so. I hope you can use your anger to start taking really good care of YOU...find another therapist as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Transition over to the new therapist gradually.
No matter how great it was...what happened was WRONG. He overstepped the line. That is the bottom line. If you can pull back and look at this from an observing point of view, you would agree. The problem is your heart is broken and you love the man. That is understandable.
Thanks for continuing to write, vent, post...my prayers are with you today. I care for you and don't want to add any more pain to you. I just want the best for you.......
Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 20:57:01
In reply to been watching this thread..., posted by kindgirl on September 19, 2004, at 14:55:48
thank you for your feedback. I do agree that I need to find another therapist.... I think I might have someone in mind. I would like to try a few sessions with him first (or with whomever) before I leave so it is a smooth transaction. Things I have thought about that concern me.... will my insurance cover me seeing two therapist even if it is short term... I wouldnt want my T to find out Im leaving that way. Im afraid I will constantly be comparing a new therapist with mine now, and in that sense they could never win. Will I seduce/persue a new therapist or hurt from overwhelming transference and impending rejection? Can they give me the love that my T is (holding me when I cry, slipping a tear or two when I talk about something tragic in my life, giving me extra time if I need it, calling me outside hours when Im upset....hugging me after, during session. I know I cant expect an "I love you" from another therapist. To stay with him on a theraputic level means hurt, to leave means the hole in my stomach will never get filled. Are you guys starting to see that Im not as together as you thought I was. Whats really weird is that my T and I could literally be colleagues. Professionally we are on the same tier. I just chose to step out of this feild for awhile. We both agreed that we have more talking to do. Ill keep you all posted. Live in my drama....dont create your own.
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
In reply to Re: kindgirl, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 20:57:01
Im not even sure that I could talk to another proffessional about my situation without them trying to report him. I live in a small town. Everyone in the mental health community knows that I was seeing my T at the agency and then left to go with him when he went private. People would figure it out and I dont want him to get in trouble and lose his lisence. I want a professionals opinion but without fear so I can be honest. That is why I wanted to talk to Dr.Bob., I need someone who could be impartial. I would really like to find out some statistics, so I know that this does happen to other people and IM not alone. I am thankful for the support that I get here from you all. Sorry about my other message the night I was drunk. very bad day.
Jadah
Posted by steelmagnolia25 on September 19, 2004, at 21:29:53
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
Jadah,
I've been reading your post from the very first and my heart goes out to you. I experienced a very strong mutual attraction to my ex-T and I used to agonize about the fact that we couldn't have a personal relationship. At one point he terminated me (somewhat similar to Susan's term.) because he wasn't sure how to handle my feelings. I went crawling back to him 2 weeks later and we continued therapy until I could find someone new. Even then, I felt heartbroken for months and now I still do the inevitable comparisons between old and new T.
I'm posting to you now just to say "thank you" for the incredible insight to your situation. Now that I have some distance from my ex-T coupled with your posts I thank God that we didn't begin a sexual relationship. I know I would be suffering right along with you in this. Without your posts, I'm not sure I would still have the strength to stay away from him or not contact him. THANK YOU.
I hope that you are able to find a new T and that with time and distance away from your current T you will be able to make other decisions regarding your relationship and whether or not to tell your new T about him. I wish you the best. Please know that many of us out here are silent but cheering you on in our hearts.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 21:42:53
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
Jadah, my analyst shocked me by saying that it happens to about 3000 people (mostly, but not all, women) every year. Also, any future therapists cannot report him- only you can do that, if you choose to. They are bound by a sacred trust to keep everything you tell them 100% private.
Posted by pegasus on September 19, 2004, at 22:15:11
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 21:42:53
Just wanted to clarify that this isn't completely true. In most states in the US, therapists are legally and ethically bound to maintain the confidentiality of their clients within certain limits (e.g., not in cases of imminent suicide or homicide). And Pfinstegg is right that reporting a colleague for illegal and unethical behavior is not usually enough of a reason to breach that confidentiality. So, if they reported the situation in any way that breached your confidentiality, then you could sue them. But it's possible that they might think up a way to report your T without actually breaching your confidentiality.
I don't think a good T would do that, because it would obviously negatively affect your therapeutic relationship with that person. But technically it's possible. I think it's something you might want to keep in mind.
pegasus
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 22:38:22
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by pegasus on September 19, 2004, at 22:15:11
Pegasus is right- the only exceptions, legally, are if the therapist feels like there is an imminent danger of suicide or homicide. But, it's true- you live in a small town where the therapists probably know a lot about what goes on. When you find someone you want to work with, it would probably be very reassuring to get the question of confidentiality about what happened right out on the table. It really is a big topic you'll need to spend a lot of time working through, and you do need to feel certain that the therapist you choose will keep 100% confidentiality.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2004, at 0:46:40
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 22:38:22
Very good advice given above. I just wanted to add that if you want to check the licensure of a new or current T, you can check with your state's licensing board. My state actually has this service available online. Although none of the sanctions specifically say they are for a sexual relationship (to my knowledge), there are many inappropriate "dual relationships" that to me seem suspect. So, although the 3000 number is not one I can confirm, I can tell you that it does happen, and more than you might think. Statistics I saw in a class a few years ago (sorry for being vague, but I never remember the details, just the big picture, and don't have my notes handy) confirmed that inapprorpriate sexual relationships happened almost more than any other ethical violations.
I'm glad you have a new T in mind. I agree that checking out the confidentiality up front is very important. I'm sure this will be very scary. But a good and professional T will be able to handle helping you with this situation. If he or she feels that it is too "close" due to his or her own professional or personal ties to your T, then that also should be stated up front.
I wish you well. This must be so incredibly difficult. Either situation...boundary violations by a T or a devastating affair's end would be difficult enough, but having them so intertwined...I can't imagine how confusing and hurt you must feel.
Please put yourself first in your decisions. Ultimately, you are the one who has been with you your whole life. That has got to count for something...
Be well,
gg
Posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2004, at 0:46:40
I have the biggest smile on my face right now. I just feel so supported and cared for, its nice. You all have such good advice and input. Im also glad to hear that I may have helped some of you. Well... update. Tonight I saw my T at his office after hours. I had been crying on and off all day and I told him that he's right, we still have a lot to talk about. I cried like a baby but believe it or not....so did he! We held eachother, talked and cried for three hours. The end of our affair was a loss for both of us, even though when Im angry I rant and rave and would say otherwise. He held me crying and said he was so torn, that he loves me and he never meant to hurt me. Its a learning experience. I have to learn to tolerate my feelings. Relationships end everyday. I KNOW he loves me and cares about me and I know that he feels terrible for hurting me. He said he would never leave me but if I decided to go he would be sad but would understand and would want the best for me. It was so nice to be in his arms. Nothing happened sexually, other than him kissing my forehead, stroking my hair and face, and holding and kissing my hand. His body was "sexually reactive" but he did not make any moves so as not to confuse me even more. He told me he wanted to take a walk with me and sit under the stars at a special place that he goes to think. Sounds sappy, and yes he is a romantic. Neither of us could say that we would NEVER again be together sexually. He said that is part of the problem. It feels good just to be held. It also meant so much to me that he cried like a baby in my arms. I know he loves me. I believe him when he says it- if he didnt mean it he doesnt have to say it at all. He certainly knows that he doesnt have to work that hard to have sex with me (did I mention hes young and hot??) I dont know if I could leave him for another T. He goes above and beyond what he has to for me when Im in a bad way. Other therapists wouldnt go the extra mile. We have literally been through life and death situations. Five years of bonding and trust. He is not like any other man I have known. He ruins that whole idea for me that all men are scum. I know, I know...I am counterdicting myself from previous threads. I was angry, hurt. Not to say that I am still not at times but Im healing. Tonight really helped. We left his office at 1am. Gosh, I cant believe those statistics. You just never hear about it, but I did know that sexual affairs were the #1 reason therapists lose their lisence. I love him soooooo much. He has given me more love, attention, support, consistency, understanding... than anyone in my whole life, M/F. He did hurt me, but I have to confess that in retaliation I have hurt him too. He even goes to the hospital with me after my procedures when I cant drive (my parents wont even do that). It still hurts, a lot knowing he still goes home to his wife at night even if he does love me. Ive never been in love before, but Ive heard that love hurts. I always have to find out things the hard way. Not sure right now about getting another T. We will see. As always, thank you all for your continued support. I look forward to coming here. Take care all. P.S.- I still DO NOT RECOMMEND crossing the line sexually with your T. Stick to your fantasies, there's a reason why its called boundaries.
Jadah
Posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 1:46:21
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
Hi, I just read this thread and really feel for you and your pain.
I just want to relate to your feeling that you will never again find a therapist who will go the extra mile for you.
I disagree. I've read of several therapists on this board who seem to go the extra mile (Daisy's comes to mind...). And I know that my therapist did many of the things that yours did...held me when I cried if I asked her to, let me call her whenever I needed to, (even nightly for a while when I was really in a bad place), we hugged at the end of sessions if I initiated it, and so on. I opened up to her in a way that I have never opened up to anyone in my entire life. I trusted her with feelings that I have never trusted anyone with. She was very focused on the real relationship that we had/have, though we dealt a lot with my transference. She was the most amazing therapist I have ever had. She went the extra mile over and over and over again. She cared/cares deeply for me and sometimes would tell me that she loves me. There was never anything sexual about our relationship. Maybe that's what made touch in our therapy - hugging afterwards and once in a while her holding me - feel so good and safe to me (as an incest survivor).
I no longer see her because I left the country where I was living, though we are still talking on the phone as I am working to decrease my dependency on her...gradually our phone calls will decrease, at a pace that feels comfortable to me. (though she has said she would gently push me a bit if needed) I love her to pieces.
I had 4 therapists before her, all but one of them "long term" (2 years or more). One short-term therapist hurt me deeply and was emotionally abusive. The others were all very good, but no one was like her. I don't know if I will find anyone like her again but I do know there are others out there like her.
I just wanted to say this because there ARE amazing therapists out there who will go the extra mile, who will do many of the things that your therapist did, but without the critical boundary violation of having sexual relations. They DO exist.
I'm not saying that you will find a relationship just like the one you have with your current therapist, but if I understand correctly, you don't want a similar one (where sex is involved).
As an aside, I once had an affair with a married man, before I ever started therapy, in my early 20's. He did leave his wife for me. And then you can guess what happened...he left me for another woman after two years. Men who leave their wives for another woman often do that. They leave again and again and again.
On another note, I recently skimmed through a book at the library that was about sexual relationships between therapists and clients. I cannot remember the name. But an entire book was written about the issue.
I'm so sorry for your pain and glad you are feeling better. Maybe this meeting you just had with him was good closure for you?
LG
Posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 13:49:52
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 1:46:21
P.S. the name of the book is, "the Intimate Hour: Love and Sex in Psychotherapy," author's last name is Bauer
Posted by pinkeye on September 23, 2004, at 13:45:06
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
Hi Jadah,
Good to hear that you are all smiling and happy. But I feel going to a new therapist would be the first step. Please try to find someone new and you will be able to resolve all these issues slowly.
Pinkeye.
Posted by Toph on September 24, 2004, at 15:08:40
In reply to Re: my T, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:19:56
Jadah, I don't know how long this thread has existed and I don't always read with the best comprehension, but as I understand it your therapist had sex with you. You have received support on your belief that this is wrong. It is indeed wrong despite any mutual consent the two of you may have had at the time. His actions are unethical and may be crimminal given the conflict of interest and possible deminished capacity you had as his patient. If you become angry someday with what happened you may want to have his license removed as LG04 suggested. I don't know if this occurred in treatment or after, but that shouldn't matter. In my state, for example, a licensed social worker is prohibited from having a sexual relationship within 2 years of working with a client. I strongly suggest that you save evidence of the Monica variety so that you can sue his *ss some day. While making a complaint that will end a therapist's career may be difficult, you should consider that you may not have been his first victim and assuredly you will not be his last.
Posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:39:16
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
I am in much need of support. My relationship with my T for the last year has been, as you know, interesting. I have decided to seek out another T and I am going to talk to mine about it. If our relationship continues to be intimate or sexual, well at least I wont be his client. I find myself hiding things from him or not being completely honest. That is not going to help me, I need a therapist. More times than none when we get together we do everything but talk about my issues. I do enjoy him and I do love him and I know he feels the same. If we are to continue any type of relationship it will have to be outside of therapy. I know you all are probably tired of hearing my story and giving me advice, but my decision to find another T is tremendous progress for me. I think in time all else we have will fade away. My experience has been one of mixed emotions and roller coaster rides but I have learned a lot about who I am and what I want. I have also started dating another man, which is also progress, it shows that I am more willing now to work towards independancy from him. I regret nothing. It is another chapter in my so called life, without it... my book could not be nearly as complete. Live, Love, and Learn. Thanks for listening.
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:43:12
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
For some reason an old message popped up for the july 13th entry instead of the one that I wrote. I am not sure what thread my message went to. Please ignore this july entry as it is old news, alot has changed since I first wrote you that letter. Wish to hear from more of you. If anyone finds my other thread from july 13 please let me know.
Jadah
Posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:15:45
In reply to Re: lsot message, posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:43:12
I'm confused now. I read the post above, about you wanting to find a new T, and I thought, good for her! Is that current, or is that old?
Either way, here for support. It's nice to see you back.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:36:03
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:39:16
I think that's really quite wonderful, Jadah. You sound positive and ready to keep moving forward, and you've lived, loved, and learned ... you sound so much stronger and more upbeat than you did last year (was it about this time?). I don't want to upset anybody, but I believe this relationship with your T has been good for him and for you, in that it's helped you both learn. I don't imagine he'll repeat this experience in the future.. I'm sure knowing what's involved will keep him much more grounded and valuable as a therapist. He's been through the mill, too, I'm sure.
Posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:37:58
In reply to Re: lsot message, posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:15:45
I think it's the current one we're presently being linked to, but from her post itself you can get the version she's talking about. You're right, good for her, if I'm right ...
Posted by LadyBug on April 4, 2005, at 0:21:47
In reply to Re: lsot message » gardenergirl, posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:37:58
Jadah,
I have read all your posts etc. I can relate to the feelings and the rollercoaster. I've seen my T for over 8 years now. I can't have an affair with my T as she is a female and so am I. But the love is familar to me.
I hope you keep writing. You are so brave. I hope this all works out for you. You have what many of us envy or not....... The fantasy.... Love is a fine line of hate. It can be confusing sometimes.
Take care and stay around for strength and support.Chris
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