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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
Thanks to my therapist. We've been working on things, mainly how to handle school in the fall, but sometimes issues with my identity comes up. She tells me that I have an unclear grasp on who I am. A lot of my problems in the past have sprung from this: My unsuccessful internship, my unsuccessful major, my unsuccessful attempts to be an actress. No seriously, It is my secret dream to be an actress. But when i was little someone encouraged me a little to optimistically to try it and it turned out to be a disaster. Anyway...Now its like I'm trying to prove to her (my t) that I really do know who I am and there is nothing wrong with me identity wise.
So...one thing that bothers me right now is this situation I'm in with this art class I'm taking. I started to think that it was a great career choice for me because I'm shy, drawing doesn't take much social interaction. And sometimes I like to draw. But my therapist is like: "no, you aren't an artist" becuase I don't draw all the time, I'm not obsessed with drawing, I don't think of myself as an artist, etc.
Well, I'm taking this art clas and I've moved on to acryllics because my friend told me that it was how she makes her drawings with color. But I have to pay all this money for paint and brushes. So I don't want to. Too expensive. And I'm afraid to say anything to anyone about it because I'm afraid I'll sound inexperienced. Which maybe I am. And maybe thats not so bad. but if I were a real artist wouldn't I just buy them?
If anyone else has gone through this or if anyone else knows what I mean or has a way to help please reply to this post.
Angela
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 10, 2004, at 12:32:30
In reply to I'm obsessed with my identity, posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
"She tells me that I have an unclear grasp on who I am."
This one bothers me too, because I feel this is *their* judgement about you. You don't have to prove you know who you are to anyone, but you. Finding out who you are is the process of allowing you to be who you are.
"But my therapist is like: "no, you aren't an artist" This isn't true at all. Every child is a natural artist and somewhere along the line someone either external or internal tells them they aren't good enough. They stop drawing and painting. As an adult, you can allow that creative flow back out again. So, YES, you have an artist within you. Don't let someone deny you of this wonderful natural gift you have.
No one is one sided. We all have many sides to ourselves. It's what we allow ourselves to see each other. Some people only see a few sides. What will you allow your self to see? That question can ONLY be answered by you. It will not be answered tomorrow or the next day. It takes all the days of your life. It is a discovery that never ends unless you want it to end.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 10, 2004, at 12:53:58
In reply to I'm obsessed with my identity, posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
I said once to my therapist that I wanted to grow up already - to see who I ended up being. She got mad at me! She said, "you're already grown up, it's just that you don't trust how you feel about yourself". I'm much older than you (sound like an old crone, don't I, little grasshopper?), and I have ALWAYS been troubled by who I seemed to be. I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be a singer (I, too, was pushed in that direction when I was young), I wanted to be an artist, I wanted to be a scholar.
I've decided now that I'm all of those things, and more. I did supress my creative side for many years, seeing it as a frivolous and unrealistic expectation. I worked in offices, managed stores, learned a gazillion skills for jobs I flew into and ran away from. I work in an office now, sing in my car, and am learning how to make jewellery. So I feel that I'm being true to myself this way.
I think it's important to see ourselves as a synthesis of everything we've always wanted to do, or have done. Just like a mom isn't just a mom - she's a daughter, a sister, a wife. I think if we try to narrow it down to "artist" or "actress" we are looking for big disappointments when those goals aren't achieved at the success rate we'd like.
It has helped me a lot to keep a journal, and just do a brain "dump" - write without thinking, really. Just let the words come out of the end of the pen. It's amazing what you learn about yourself this way. Do it for 15 minutes every morning, before you're really awake. You'll be amazed at what you learn about yourself this way.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 10, 2004, at 14:20:04
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » Angela2, posted by partlycloudy on August 10, 2004, at 12:53:58
> >
> I think it's important to see ourselves as a synthesis of everything we've always wanted to do, or have done. Just like a mom isn't just a mom - she's a daughter, a sister, a wife.Wow, as someone who is on her (at least) third career, I really love this statement. It so pulls together how I feel about everything I've done. I hate looking to others like a "flake" or a "job-hopper". This is a much better way to view it.
Thanks, PC!
Take care,
gg
Posted by JenStar on August 10, 2004, at 23:17:11
In reply to I'm obsessed with my identity, posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
hi Angela,
Hey, welcome to the "I don't know who I am" club! I am a charter member! I think sometimes the choices of career are overwhelming. There are so many possibilities that it's hard to choose just ONE and focus in on it and get good at it.I guess I both agree and disagree with your therapist. On the agreement side: If you truly had art in your soul, you probably WOULD be drawing all the time, with pencils, crayons, used markers, sticks in the sand, etc. You might be like one of those starving artists who live in a little unheated garrison in France and eat stale bread and wear worn-out mittens as they paint in the cold, because painting is like a drug and they have to do it even if poor.
Maybe your T is trying to steer you in the direction of a career that is based more on a solid "objective" skill rather than something "subjective." Even if you LOVE art and do it all the time, that's not a guarantee that you'll be able to hit the market needs and make enough money to survive on. I think it's really very hard to earn a living on art. Fun, but hard to break into.
I truly agree that everyone is an artist in some way, but not everyone can become a commercially viable artist.
But still, that should NOT hold you back from taking art classes! Who knows, maybe you'll awake the sleeping art genius inside and start turning out masterpieces. Remember Grandma Moses; she only STARTED painting in her retirement years and ended up loving it, being GREAT at it, and getting famous.
If you can afford it, spend the $$ and get the supplies. See if this is something that you love! Maybe you really will!
Good luck.
Let us know what you decide.JenStar
Posted by octopusprime on August 11, 2004, at 0:18:07
In reply to I'm obsessed with my identity, posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
ok i don't normally post here but here goes:
one day i decided my walls were bare. i bought some 9x12" canvasses, cheap student art paints (oils, but the cheap acrylics should be the same price), cheap brushes, some solvent. it cost me $150 CAD to get started. it was worth it!!
sure i picked some bristles out of my paintings. and sure they don't look like something a "real" artist would paint.
but it's me, and i identified with painting in a way therapy could never address, because it's non-verbal and some things just flowed out. i do recall one time i was in tears from painting.
so think about it - how much do your therapy sessions cost - $100? is painting 5 paintings worth 1.5 therapy sessions to you?
do a cost-benefit analysis. i think it would be worth it. i have also been taking music classes and found them to be immensely helpful (plus, everybody there is INSANE, and at $12.50/session, it's cheaper and more fun than group therapy)
yay art! i think we are all artistes!
Posted by shortelise on August 11, 2004, at 1:43:17
In reply to i AM an artist » Angela2, posted by octopusprime on August 11, 2004, at 0:18:07
I am for sure an artist. My hands do things, make things, and I can't stop them. I get an idea, and voila, there I am in my garden with cement and little rocks, or at my sewing machine, or in the kitchen, or in the garage covered in paint ...
Being an artist isn't about anything but making, creating. You can make art with rocks at the seaside, you can make it with mud on paper (a friend of mine has done some extraordinary paintings using different kinds of earth as her medium!).
And if you make bad art ... well, welcome to the club - everyone makes bad art sometimes, esp, when we're learning to express our creativity - like some meals just don't turn out, or an idea is bad.
What makes ME an artist is, I think, that I can't NOT create. About ten years ago, a very wise person told me that she thinks that it can make a creative person crazy if they don't create. She was so right for me. When I am unable to do things with my head and hands, when I have to keep those creative urges caged, I am not well. I need to make things, need to put colours together, or textures, or make a tiny house from stones (that's my latest hunger).
I had a dream a few years ago about a big blue swan. Or was it a goose? I don't remember, but I felt this urge, no, a complusion, to paint this big bird. It was the WORST painting, I mean horrible, huge and of a blue that should never have seen the light. I don't know if there is any analysis to be had there, but oh, dear, what a BAD painting!
I feel really strongly about this, mostly because it was so late in life that I finally understood that I simply cannot, must not, thwart the urge to create.
Sorry this is so much about "me" but I don't know you. If you feel the need to create, to make things, maybe a little bit like Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters :-) then do it. Go to a dollar store and buy some cheapo stinko paints, go to your local Goodwill store. Have fun with it.
This makes me think - it is so important for us tohave a sense of who we are, when in fact so many of us are still connecting the dots, filling in the blanks, colouring in and around the lines. It's wonderful in a way,. because we are not imprisoned by our definition of ourselves. I imagine you with yor pencil in hand, looking around in your soul to see what of it will come out of the end of that pencil. That's a thing of beauty - that even if you won't spend the rest of your life in the pursuit of art, you have a side that likes to create, and you explore it.
Sorry I have rambled so long. I hope this is of some interest.
ShortE
Posted by B2chica on August 11, 2004, at 10:04:21
In reply to I'm obsessed with my identity, posted by Angela2 on August 10, 2004, at 11:40:59
I may sound a little snipy here but i feel strongly about it. Maybe you don't have a clear grasp on who you are...so what? you are working on it right? that's what's important there-and it doens't have to be precise, just as long as you can set boundries.
Maybe you can make money with art maybe not but money does not an artist make.
And though it doesn't suprise me that someone is telling you what you are or aren't DON'T you actually let that make your decision for you! OK!??!!!!
You decide, Not your T. and if you want to make splatter paintings and sell them on the street corner for $10 that Your life to do with as you want.And yes, paints Can be expensive. two suggestions, start out with some other medium. even try colored pencil, pastels (which can also be a little pricey), conté (my fav), or chalk. just to play with color.
Tip: Whatever you decide DON'T buy supplies from an "art" store if you can avoid it-So much more expensive. go to a craft or hardware store if you can. heck go to target or walmart to see what they may have. i do think the most $$ thing are the brushes, but i think someone else mentioned buy cheaper brushes at least 2 or 3 to get you started, to see if you even like acrylics. if you do decide paint is the way to go i prefer to stretch my own canvas rather than purchase pre-made and Don't use Gesso from art store, just go buy primer from paint store (Lowe's or something.)
And Never stop expressing what you feel. Show your passion, your emotion through your art. So even if it doens't sell you will Never be ashamed of you work...it's you.
Best Wishes.
b2c.
Posted by Angela2 on August 11, 2004, at 10:23:33
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » Angela2, posted by B2chica on August 11, 2004, at 10:04:21
One thing my therapist has told me about myself that I believe to be correct is that I tend to go from one thing to the next what ever sounds cool to me that day. I never finish anything. And I get this false idea in my head of what I am. This is kind of true. So I think thats something I'd like to work on.
She has also said that I don't have a good focus on who I am and I'm not in touch with who I am. (she gets this from me wanting to because I told her I have a passion for acting/ theatre but I am so shy I'd never try it. She's like, "you aren't really an actress if you don't pursue it." But can't I like, have an interest??? A lot of things I have done and failed at though, I wasn't experienced in and thats why I had difficulty. I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
So, I've stopped talking about the things I do, and what interests me in therapy. Because it seems like every time I do she shoots me down and she's like, "what you just said makes me unsure of you doing this."
I've decided to use colored pencils for now but maybe I can find some cheap acrylics somewhere.
Angela
Posted by B2chica on August 11, 2004, at 10:50:47
In reply to My Response, posted by Angela2 on August 11, 2004, at 10:23:33
Don't worry sweet Angela girl, you'll find you.
you're beautiful and kind. Give yourself time, your sense of self will come with love, patience and forgiveness for yourself.-and good for you on the pencils! i enjoyed working with them, you can get great detail with em'.
b2c.
Posted by Angela2 on August 11, 2004, at 10:56:21
In reply to i AM an artist » Angela2, posted by octopusprime on August 11, 2004, at 0:18:07
so think about it - how much do your therapy sessions cost - $100? is painting 5 paintings worth 1.5 therapy sessions to you?Octopusprime, you are right. painting is theraputic thing. I pay 200 dollars for therapy. My mom actually chooses this over a clinic. And we don't even have the money!
I thought being practical was part of growing up though. So thats why I don't want to spend so much on paint when I need a car this fall. But maybe if I can find them cheap somewhere I will buy some.
Angela
ps-I bet your room looks great. What did you paint on the canvases? How many canvases are in yuor room?
Posted by JenStar on August 11, 2004, at 11:01:36
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » Angela2, posted by B2chica on August 11, 2004, at 10:04:21
I think it's really cool that you make your own art. Sometimes that is so much more wonderful than buying it.
I used to be a huge fan of the show 'Trading Spaces' and it kind of inspired me to make my own things for my walls instead of buying them all. It gave me confidence that things I made could be just as beautiful as something from the art store. And I'm proud when I can display something I made. In a small way, it makes me feel useful and strong.
B2Chica, your message also inspired me! Makes me def. want to get out some supplies and make something of my own.
I wasn't trying to squelch the creative spirit with my previous post (hope it wasn't taken that way.) I just think that it's hard to say "art will now be my career" and then to make it so. it might be easier to go with a job that uses skills that can be more traditionally judged and taught, while keeping art as a private enjoyment.
JenStar
Posted by Angela2 on August 11, 2004, at 11:44:52
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » B2chica, posted by JenStar on August 11, 2004, at 11:01:36
Yeah, I agree. I think what you DO is more important than what you WISH you could do. Though sometimes its hard for me. I'm very idealistic/ dreamy :/
Posted by B2chica on August 11, 2004, at 11:46:13
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » B2chica, posted by JenStar on August 11, 2004, at 11:01:36
Absolutely not taken that way!
Enjoy!
b2c.
> I wasn't trying to squelch the creative spirit with my previous post (hope it wasn't taken that way.) I just think that it's hard to say "art will now be my career" and then to make it so. it might be easier to go with a job that uses skills that can be more traditionally judged and taught, while keeping art as a private enjoyment.
>
>
>
> JenStar
Posted by shortelise on August 11, 2004, at 12:22:26
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » JenStar, posted by Angela2 on August 11, 2004, at 11:44:52
I play the guitar - from the age of 12-20 it was the central point in my life. I wrote music and preformed, was a street musician for several years. I rarely play anymore.
When I was about 15, I learned to do pottery. For a year or two I did that. I made some wonderful pieces. I don't do this anymore.
I made clothes. Not with patterns, I just created clothing, I didn't have much money, was living abroad and wanted to have nice things to wear. I don't do this anymore.
Then I did a series of paintings. Maybe five or six. It took a great deal of time and concentration. They were paintings of the apartment I was living in abraod - it was 300 years old, and I wanted to remember it. I haven't done a water colour since.
Then I painted silk yardage. Dyed it really. I must have done hundreds of yards, some I sold, some I made clothes out of. SOme I stil have, gorgeous pieces full of colour. I don't dye silk anymore - nor do I make clothing.
Then I became a cook. I can cook everything from Thai to Turkish food. THe good thing and the bad thing about being a cook is that, well, once you start cooking you can never stop. Luckily, this is a passion that has endured.
I've made objects out of wool felt. I've sewn tapestry handbags. I've made baby quilts. Pen and ink drawings, pointillist paintings ... I can't think of all the phases I have gone through.
And that's not mentioning, with the exception of playing music, what I've done to earn a living!!!
So, Angela, maybe you are not focussed, and maybe you do need to work on that. And I do agree that understanding who we are is important. It has taken me several years of therapy to accept the fact that how I am is ok.
It's exciting for me to know that once I've made my funny little stone house, I'll do something else, and it will feel wonderful.
It sounds like your therapist is telling you the truth, though. Could you maybe print some of this thread and take it with you?
ShortE
Posted by JenStar on August 11, 2004, at 21:58:50
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » Angela2, posted by shortelise on August 11, 2004, at 12:22:26
Shortelise,
my gosh! You are a multi-talented person. You sound so interesting. I bet you have a fabulous house, filled with all of your creations. Once again, I feel inspired to get out there and create something of my own.JenStar
Posted by Angela2 on August 12, 2004, at 10:46:36
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » Angela2, posted by shortelise on August 11, 2004, at 12:22:26
>>It sounds like your therapist is telling you the truth, though.
Yeah I think she is too.
>>Could you maybe print some of this thread and take it with you?
yeah I think I will.
Posted by shortelise on August 12, 2004, at 13:04:37
In reply to Re: I'm obsessed with my identity » shortelise, posted by JenStar on August 11, 2004, at 21:58:50
Jenstar,
My house is ... interesting.
Through the years of therapy I have taken most of what I have made to show to my therapist.
I did a series of paintings - abstracts - a couple of years ago, and they were so strongly indicative of my state of mind of the time! It has been so helpful.
It's so funny how I exhaust a phase, I do the artwork, and then it's over.
There is nothing more "therapeutic" for me ... except maybe long walks in the woods, or hikes. That is by far the most therapeutic thing.
Life as therapy? :-) Redirect that, Dr. Bob!
ShortE
Posted by biohazard2 on August 14, 2004, at 22:19:12
In reply to i AM an artist » Angela2, posted by octopusprime on August 11, 2004, at 0:18:07
well i am really an artist. and this sickness of biopolar type II has been rough on me, it makes me procastinate on artwork and jobs i have to do. i have so much potenial, but i am wasting it. when i was younger i did a lot of art, but as i got older i had to drink more. my production suffered and i became an asshole. then i when into the corporate world, and there i have succeded for a while. but my illness has been taking it's toll.
what really pisses me off is i have really cool ideas but i am too freaking messed up to act on them. i really hope this lithium kicks in, and i can lay off the booze.
anyway i feel i am all talk anymore, no action. i hope to change this soon.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 16, 2004, at 8:11:30
In reply to Re: i AM an artist, posted by biohazard2 on August 14, 2004, at 22:19:12
> as i got older i had to drink more. my production suffered and i became an [*]sshole.
Sorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others.
Anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or who is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, should see the FAQ:
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Thanks,
Bob
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