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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tabitha on June 1, 2004, at 1:32:56
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
Mine always comments if I wear something new, change my hair, or have on makeup. I'll go forever and wear the exact same couple of outfits, so any change stands out, and I think she sees change like that as a positive sign for me. I like getting the comments. To me it's a little girl thing-- a little girl wants folks to notice her new dress or her new hair ribbon and tell her she looks pretty.
My T always dresses elegantly herself, and I comment on her things. She thanks me but doesn't dwell on my remarks.
Posted by babbgal on June 1, 2004, at 2:13:57
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
Funny, my psychiatrist always points out when I wear sneakers, which is very rarely. I typically wear black Doc Martens boots, which he has commented on a few times -- "cool shoes." He's a few years younger than me, so I give him a hard time..."Dr. X., you always comment on my footwear!" He laughs.
My T. has never commented on my appearance, whether I go into session in jeans and sneakers or a skirt and boots. He is very free with other compliments, which I appreciate because I know he's being honest and not dishing them out frivolously...he has said positive things about my intelligence and creativity that I will never forget. Those comments have meant a lot to me.
Posted by cubic_me on June 1, 2004, at 6:29:14
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
My T has never commented on my appearance. I tend to wear a lot of different stuff, and whether I go smart or casual depends on what I've just been doing or am about to do. Near the beginning I would go in sometimes looking a bit of a mess, but she never commented. It doesn't really bother me that she doesn't mention what I look like, I'm sure she takes it into consideration in her judgement of me, but chooses not to say anything. Once she mentioned that I was attractive, which is a nice comment to make, but I didn't feel like I needed her to say that.
It's interesting seeing what other T s make of their client's appearance. I have wondered whethere she would pass comment if I came in with purple hair or just in a bikini, but my feeling is that she would just smile and carry on!
Posted by lucy stone on June 1, 2004, at 9:11:21
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by cubic_me on June 1, 2004, at 6:29:14
My T has never commented on my appearance either positively or negatively. This is good because I would take a negative comment very hard. I have a very difficult time accepting compliments so a positive comment would also be hard. We have talked a great deal about why compliments are so hard for me. He sometimes compliments me on things other than appearance but is very cautious when he does so. I am always trying to please him, just I like I try and please everyone else in my life and we are working on that. He wants me to know and act on my own desires, not on the desires of other people. If he gave me compliments I would think that I had succeeded in pleasing him and he doesn't want that. He says he will never infantalize me. I have given him two presents I bought for him on vacation, one small and one a bit larger. He says thank you and that's it, no follow up on whether or not he enjoyed them. I gave him a box of cookies last Christmas and he told me that his entire family enjoyed them, although we had to talk about why it was important to me that they liked them. I often comment on his appearance because I like the way he dresses. He buys his clothes at Lands End and LL Bean and dresses much like my husband does. Sometimes he wears a suit because he has meetings to attend and I really don't like that. I always comment on it and and we have to talk about why I don't like it. It's upsetting to me for several reasons.
Posted by antigua on June 1, 2004, at 12:42:56
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by lucy stone on June 1, 2004, at 9:11:21
My T compliments me and vice versa. I know I mentioned it before, but sometimes we wear the same color combination so that has come to be a joke if it happens. She has beautiful clothes and I like the variety and comment on it. She usually points out something new I have--hair, clothes, shoes, etc. I like it, it makes me feel like she's paying attention.
antigua
Posted by Poet on June 1, 2004, at 14:39:26
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
Mine once said she liked my earrings, but that's about it. She doesn't usually say anything about my appearance, but since I've lost weight in the last month, she keeps saying I look thin and asking if I'm eating. I guess she notices baggy jeans, but not baggy shirts that are inside out as mine was last week.
Poet
Posted by LG04 on June 1, 2004, at 15:20:26
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Poet on June 1, 2004, at 14:39:26
My therapist compliments me a lot, both on things I am wearing or a haircut, etc, and otherwise (kind, intelligent, etc.). I compliment her a lot too, in the same ways (more on the "otherwise," less on the appearance). I've never really thought about it actually. It feels fine to me, feels natural. I think I agree with Antigua, that to me it means she notices the whole me. I have told her that I am very sensitive about my weight and don't want her to compliment me if I lose, or comment (obviously!) if I gain. She forgot and asked me the other day if I've lost weight, because I had lost a bit. But I overlooked it. We've talked about my weight issues and she has reassured me many times that my being overweight doesn't matter one iota to her, and I do believe her. (my mom was obsessed with my weight so it's an issue for me) She has told me a couple of times that she thinks I am pretty. That made me feel good since she has to look at me for more than two hours a week...:) At least I know she's not suffering!
I do know that I think about what I am wearing when I go to see her usually. But I think that's an issue that comes from a lifetime of a mother who obsessed over my appearance. It hasn't been a big enough issue for me to bring up with my therapist, there are always more pressing issues to talk about. Maybe someday we'll get to it.
LG
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on June 1, 2004, at 16:22:06
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by LG04 on June 1, 2004, at 15:20:26
Seems to be a lot bigger issue between female patients and male therapists. Seems the female T's as a rule have no problem with physical compliments.
Posted by Dinah on June 1, 2004, at 21:53:42
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
Well, you all know that my therapist has negative countertransference about my appearance, and so does mention it whenever he gets a chance.
He also compliments me from time to time on an outfit or on bright colors. I guess he thinks they look cheerful and may reflect my mood.
He comments more on the pictures of younger me that I bring in every once in a while. He always seems surprised that I once looked not half bad. But most people do. I look so different in my younger pictures that most people don't connect it at all to the person I am now, and are thus surprised.
I never ever make physical comments about anyone's looks, hair color, hairstyle, weight gain or loss, etc. I've got this internal code that to comment on such things isn't terribly polite. Well, maybe things like hair style. I might say, I really like that outfit. Or you got your hair cut (or you shaved your beard). It looks nice! To me, complimenting someone on their weight loss implies that you thought they previously were overweight. And ditto on most other looks comments. I would never dream of mentioning even the most obvious hair color changes. I stick to a generic "You look chipper (happy, glowing, nice, whatever) today if they look better, and polite silence implying that I don't notice if they look worse.
But I've got lots of silly internal rules about politeness that don't really match those of the outside world.
Posted by lucy stone on June 1, 2004, at 22:17:42
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 1, 2004, at 21:53:42
I like your rules. I am 6'2" tall, and people have always commented on my height. I was 6' tall in the 8th grade and I hated, absolutely hated, people who asked me how tall I was. I already felt like a freak, and having random people comment about it made it worse. If i reacted in a negative way they would get offended and usually offered a comment how they always wished they were tall. Maybe they did, but I never saw what that had to do with me. I certainly didn't give them the right to ask intrusive questions about me. Since then I have been extremely cautious about commenting on people's appearance. You never know what people are sensitive about.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2004, at 9:26:10
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 1, 2004, at 21:53:42
Dinah,
I like your politeness and rules. It always bugs me when someone says, "You look nice, today." Was I that bad yesterday? And every other day?I know that is not what they meant, but adding that "today" does imply that you look better than your usual presentation. And I am usually pretty satisfied with the usual (except for the weight, sigh.)
Take care,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2004, at 9:33:56
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by lucy stone on June 1, 2004, at 22:17:42
I forgot about a couple of appearance-related interpretations my T made that made me laugh. These are the only times he has even hinted at something about my appearance. I think I have posted this somewhere in the past, so if you have heard it before, sorry.
First, one day I did not have to go to work, so I went in jeans and a more casual hair and makeup. I never get to wear jeans, it seems, so I take advantage every chance I get. He said, "it seems like you are loosening up." Lord. I suppose I could have felt like I had to dress professionally for my appt., but why would I do that?
Second, one day I was wearing boots with a long, full skirt. He said, "When you are going to wade through the muck (meaning deal with difficulty and stressful stuff), you have to protect yourself (i.e. put your Wellie's on?)".
Fashion, dude! Fashion!Now that I think about it, when I brought him a picture that I call my inner geek (three years old, on Thanksgiving day, with awful seventies clothes, bad haircut from Mom, cat-eye glass, grinning like a goon, you get the picture), he commented on "what brilliant smile" I had. Um, yeah, brilliant. Although the smile is about the only thing you can pick out to compliment in that picture unless you were a fan of seventies fashion. Or just think the kid is so weird looking that she's cute. (That's what I think. I really like my inner geek.)
I have complimented my clients at times, on a new haircut or a color. I tend to do it more automatically versus think much about it (I'll have to think about that....). But I don't think I have ever complimented my male clients on appearance. Especially the last one, who was a very good-looking 19 year old, charismatic boy. That would not have been therapeutic for him. And it would have felt really odd to me, versus easy like with the female clients.
Interesting thread.
gg
Posted by tinydancer on June 2, 2004, at 10:08:35
In reply to Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on May 31, 2004, at 20:20:02
This is a really interesting topic, Miss Honey! I liked hearing about the differences from each and every one of you. I have a male therapist, and he actually isn't much older than me (I think 5 years or so?)
When I have appointments I am always dressed in my best or newest outfit (but of course!) and I am really happy if he comments, but he doesn't make a habit of it. I'm really into fashion and trends and stuff so sometimes he comments "Wow, your earrings match your socks!!" He's said a few times, "Look at you!" when I'm really fancy. He told me once that I had a very nice smile. (That's actually such a nice compliment, isn't it?) Also, I've asked him if he thinks I'm pretty. But I've also asked him if he thinks I'm boring, smart, if I talk to much, if he is proud of me and so on, so for me its just part of the territory really.
I think it just varies from T to T. I don't think it is a problem to give people compliments. In fact I was discussing this at my T today: the fact that giving someone a compliment is positive, sort of like, "Share the love!" I understand Dinah's dilemma and agree that it is usually best to just comment on how they look "especially nice" today or something, without implying that they don't always. I recently commented to someone that they looked thinner forgetting she had once had bulimia. Woops...Slippery slope indeed!
Posted by Racer on June 2, 2004, at 13:02:29
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by tinydancer on June 2, 2004, at 10:08:35
Today I noticed that I can give and receive compliments with our marriage counselor. I do kinda deflect her compliments, but at least I do it silently.
She's quite heavy, and I did comment once that she looked to have lost some weight. Obviously, before reading some of the comments here, which would have made me uncomfortable doing so. She was excited by it, told us about her weight loss plan a little (while walking to the office, not in session), and today we talked about her skirt. (It had pompon fringe, and I mentioned always wanting to put that on a skirt, but being afraid I'd be too self-conscious about wearing it.) And I do 'ask' for her approval at times, by wearing things I've made and pointing them out to her. Today, I wore a top I'd made -- sewn, not knit -- and told her about dyeing it with a technique I'd never used before.
Did I deflect that compliment? "Oh, people who don't know how to sew always think it's so amazing, but only because they don't know how easy it really is. Unless, of course, you make it harder for yourself the way I do. And the dyeing is no big deal anyway, even if you've never used that technique before. Besides, I'm only OK with the way it turned out." Yeah, I deflect compliments.
You know what the difference is, though? The things she says in the sessions about me, about my reactions to things, feel so True -- in that "what oft was thought, but ne'er so well exprest" sort of way that Pope was referring to. The larger Truth, that revelatory Truth that leads to therapeutic breakthroughs. So, when she says something nice, it feels as if it must also be True in some sense, and it's very calming and validating.
Great topic, by the way.
Posted by crushedout on June 2, 2004, at 19:36:20
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by cubic_me on June 1, 2004, at 6:29:14
oh, i've thought about going in in a bikini many times! i want to! you don't think she would mind? alright, the truth is i'd be waaaay too self-conscious.
Posted by crushedout on June 2, 2004, at 22:13:31
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 1, 2004, at 21:53:42
I don't think those are silly. I also don't mention weight loss -- well, certainly not as a compliment. i might mention it if i'm worried about someone's health, but it would have to be a good friend. I hate when someone tells me "you're so skinny -- you look great" -- what an anorexic mentality. i feel like saying, "you should be ashamed of yourself." especially when i'm severely underweight as i have been. now that i've gained about 20 pounds since i quit drugs and cigarettes are they gonna tell me i'm fat? it's a setup. not real smart.
Posted by cubic_me on June 3, 2004, at 4:37:25
In reply to bikini! » cubic_me, posted by crushedout on June 2, 2004, at 19:36:20
>
> oh, i've thought about going in in a bikini many times! i want to! you don't think she would mind? alright, the truth is i'd be waaaay too self-conscious.I'd never have the courage to do that - tho' at least she would see that I do have enough flab to be complaining about...damn the fattening meds!
Posted by karen_kay on June 3, 2004, at 8:08:47
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 1, 2004, at 21:53:42
dinah, about weight loss..... i've trained myself to say it. but i still hate to hear it. if someone says 'oh karen, have you lost weight?' i hear 'you used to be fat and now you aren't' so, we are in the same boat there. but, i only make comments regarding weight to my close friends and family, those who i wouldn't mind commenting if i lost weight.
my boyfriend's parents used to comment on my weight loss often (my weight goes up and down often) (and never anything negative of course, just the basic 'you look like you've lost weight, ect.). i finally told him that if they persisted, i wouldn't visit anymore. i think he told them, because i've not heard another comment about it. or perhaps i just haven't changed my weight?
Posted by Racer on June 3, 2004, at 8:48:13
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy » Dinah, posted by karen_kay on June 3, 2004, at 8:08:47
Reading karen_kay's post brought up comments about my weight, and how they tend to make me feel. A former girlfriend, who knew me when I was not experiencing any sort of disordered eating, saw me for the first time after it started up again and said something like, "I know you say you're underweight, but I think this is the best I've ever seen you look." Since I was underweight, and knew it, that was a bit of a stunner.
And my family is notorious for totally inappropriate comments about my weight. When I've gained weight from the drugs, they'll come after me constantly with 'jokes' and critical comments. (usually framed as, "You know I love you, so I want you to know you've gained too much weight.") The one time I said that it was from the drugs, I was told that I should, therefore, stop taking the drugs. (After all, if I couldn't or wouldn't say what I was depressed about, then I wasn't really depressed. Just lazy, weak, and displaying bad character.) Now that I'm restricting my eating again, I get the comments about being too thin. I've said, a number of times, that my weight needs to be off limits, that it's not a topic for conversation, but that just means that they change their strategy: "I know you don't want to talk about your weight, but you could start drinking Ensure to gain some weight..." or "I know you said we couldn't talk about your weight, but you need to hear this..." That sort of thing. (In other words, I was spawned by a family of human steamrollers.)
I'm pretty careful when I comment on others' weight. Usually, I only say something when I *know* that someone has been dieting or exercising to slim down, and it really shows. And I never comment to anyone who hasn't already heard my mini-lecture about women looking better with their natural curves, and health being more important than appearance or a number on the scale.
The other thing that I react to with comments on my weight is that I doubt very much that many people realize how much/little I actually weigh. I am not that thin right now, despite what my family is saying, but I know from the scale that I'm probably 10 or 15 pounds less than most of them would guess. That means that most comments strike me as being based on something other than me -- notice any sort of a theme to my life? Comments on my weight usually add to that feeling that I'm actually invisible, and that people are seeing something with no relation to me.
OK. 'Nuf rambling
Posted by Dinah on June 3, 2004, at 9:34:53
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy » Dinah, posted by crushedout on June 2, 2004, at 22:13:31
I'm glad to hear that this particular set of rules isn't one of mine with no basis in reality. I agree with what everyone has said. Weight comments are especially tricky. I don't like getting them either.
And Karen Kay, a family member once commented on my extra weight at a time when I really wasn't overweight, just not super slim. I've been told that I have a manner of freezing people with a look when I'm offended and I must have utilized that. I never heard another word about it. Even when I got really overweight.
Posted by Racer on June 3, 2004, at 12:20:40
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 3, 2004, at 9:34:53
Your post made me laugh, when you said that you never heard another comment. Could it be that your family is just more considerate than some of ours?
Honest to goness, many members of my family seem to think that, if they don't point out to me my weight problems, I won't realize that they exist! They literally *have* to tell me that I'm too fat/thin, because otherwise I won't know. Um, hello?
Maybe I should borrow your freezing look, as well as your mother? (My mother just got back from Chicago, with yet another pair of fabulous earrings for me, by the way. I've worn them twice now, and each time I've gotten compliments from strangers. Mom's batting 1000 in the earring department so far. Maybe we just need to join the families?)
Posted by Dinah on June 3, 2004, at 15:14:09
In reply to Could it be...? » Dinah, posted by Racer on June 3, 2004, at 12:20:40
I think the person's daughter might have given her a stern talking to. But I really do have a "look". When I was growing up, several men told either me or my mother (in my hearing) that they felt sorry for my future boyfriends.
Enjoy those earrings, and the mother's love that come with them. :)
Posted by lucy stone on June 3, 2004, at 16:01:40
In reply to Re: Comments on Appearance in Therapy, posted by Dinah on June 3, 2004, at 9:34:53
I decided to see what kind of comment my T would make about my appearance if I directly asked him. I got my hair cut yesterday, something I very much dislike. I don't like to talk about my appearance I don't like to ask for what I want, I don't like to look at myself, and I don't like to be touched by people outside of my immediate family. Obviously, hair styling is very hard. We talked about the Hair Experience today, and as I was leaving I asked if he liked my new style. He said "I do, but I think you do to." So I asked again, "so you do like it?" He said again, "I do, but I think you do to." He was willing to say he liked it, but he made sure that I also liked it. He makes sure the focus is always on me and how I feel about things.
Posted by starlight on June 4, 2004, at 13:59:35
In reply to Re: Comments on Therapist's Appearance, posted by Racer on June 2, 2004, at 13:02:29
My jerkhead Pdoc commented on my appearance, just not to my face. He wrote in my chart that I appeared garish, wore too much makeup and wore clothing that was overtly sexual. He even wrote once that I dyed my hair much darker than usual.
When I found this I was stunned. I'm still stunned and with the other things he wrote I'm so angry I just can't believe it. First, I hardly wear any makeup at all, I don't even own foundation or blush. I usually wear a light eyeshadow, with a bit darker eyeshadow on the lid. I fill in my eyebrows some, wear mascara, and lipstick - but when the lipstick wears off, most the time I don't even bother to reapply it.
I think I tend to wear more conservative clothing, I hate anything tight, and since I have always gone to my appointments directly from work, I dress in work attire. I work for a man as his secretary and am always cognizant to not wear anything too revealing. Anyway - I fired the **hole and hope he rots!
starlight
Posted by Racer on June 4, 2004, at 16:33:31
In reply to Re: Comments on Therapist's Appearance, posted by starlight on June 4, 2004, at 13:59:35
I read my chart, too, and got a shock on the appearance front: every entry said the same thing about my appearance:
"Casually dressed, neatly groomed"
EXCEPT for one, which said:
"Casually dressed, adequately groomed"
Hello? I shower the same way before every appointment. I wear clothes from the same wardrobe - because that's what I own and wear. If I didn't look "neatly groomed" one day, it's a perception problem on his part, or a reaction to me being overwhelmingly depressed that day.
(I did wear contacts instead of specs one day, and did put on some makeup that day for something earlier in the day. Sure would like to see what showed up on that entry. "casually dressed, over groomed?")
You know what though? I'm glad you saw it and got to fire him. I can't imagine the attitude that would have gone with a note like that. (Although it does tend to support my theory that most men are incapable of "seeing" women. They see something they make up themselves superimposed on the REAL woman in front of them. Just a theory.)
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