Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 319365

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Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley

Posted by rs on March 6, 2004, at 11:17:28

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 1:23:44

Thanks for sharing that. That was really comforting here. Say many times hope there are good therapist out there like mine and you are one of them. Best to you. My T would answere anything and he is really honest with me as far as know. That helps therpay with trust so very much

 

Re: Thank you emmaley

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 12:39:03

In reply to Thank you, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 3:18:37

Thank you from me also a lot of us were hurt insulted and felt attacked by another poster and it seems you and I must have posted on the same subject matter at the same time. This is what I was saying when I said I took that post sent it to my therapist and he made the comments I posted anyhow I hope people read my subject "A comment on if a therapist;s discomfort" I think people need to KNOW they can ask and be themselves in therapy. Good Job

 

Re: Do you have a picture of your T? Apperceptor

Posted by confetti on March 6, 2004, at 16:28:05

In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by Apperceptor on March 4, 2004, at 23:46:39

Apperceptor, I don't believe your post was the "inappropriate" part of this thread. In fact, this thread creeped me out so much I'll be getting my advice/tips somewhere else.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley

Posted by gardenergirl on March 6, 2004, at 16:57:28

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 1:23:44

Oh my gosh, I'm so with you on this. Great post. And I agree with other posts which emphasize that is is the T's responsiblity to deal with anything stirred up in them. It is NOT the client's responsibility to protect the T.

gg

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 17:25:35

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley, posted by gardenergirl on March 6, 2004, at 16:57:28

I would just like to indicate that I never said the client should "protect" the therapist from anything. I simply asked for respect.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 17:43:05

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 17:25:35

> I would just like to indicate that I never said the client should "protect" the therapist from anything. I simply asked for respect.>>

That you did, but you also said and I quote you below. By using words like creepy and bizarre, inappropriatem teenybopper and so on you really hurt my feelings and it seems from a lot of posts generated off of here...many other posters feelings too. I also feel that by saying these requests are creepy that it is a way of saying do not ask and by not asking who are we protecting???? So you implied it to me anyways..I do not agree with this nor did my T. Might it have been best to just say. I find these requests uncomfortable myself and state why without the bashing, I for one have not asked for a picture but would love one, And I am going to be leaving this site semi soon because this has really bothered me.
>>
It takes a very strong psychiatrist/psychologist/therapist to work with somebody who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and you are not making it any easier by asking for these bizarre, inappropriate favors. Would you ask your optometrist for his or her picture? Probably not. So try to give your therapists the same respect. We have spines too, and with that comes the ability to feel chills run up and down it with these...for lack of a better word, creepy...requests.>>

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor

Posted by pegasus on March 6, 2004, at 17:50:20

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 17:25:35

I still don't get why it's disrespectful or creepy to want a picture of one's therapist. I think it's kind of sweet. It seems to me to show that the relationship is meaningful to the client, which I always thought of as a good sign in therapy.

I'm also a therapist in training, and if any of my clients wanted a picture I would admire the courage that it took them to ask, and I would certainly give them one. I'd be glad that they had one, if it helped them. I was rather shocked to hear that you thought it was creepy. Or maybe it wasn't exactly the picture thing that you found creepy? I would like to understand your thoughts about that.

- p

 

My last post above was meant for Apperceptor

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 17:57:07

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 17:43:05

Just wanted to make that clear

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg pegasus

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 18:03:22

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor, posted by pegasus on March 6, 2004, at 17:50:20

Pegasus, I wish I was brave enough to ask my T for one and I wish my T was as cool as you would be. He might be but as a person with a very traumatic childhood and adulthood I am very shy in ways. I am so afraid of being smacked down I wish I could ask my T. I usually just sit and hope on things. Like now that I emailed him some issues in here I hope he will say HEY FALLEN YOU WANT A PICTURE? So I admire those in here who are so brave and ask...I couldnt I have had enough in my life I could not take the chance of his saying NO YOU CREEP ME OUT GET OUT OF HERE..or something else that would crash my world .

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Fallen4myT

Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 18:34:17

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 17:43:05

I was inappropriate in how I worded my original post. I hate to sound flippant but I'm starting to run out of ways to recant or apoligize without compromizing the elements I do still believe.

I'd like to share with you an aphorism I've always loved-

"The arrow shot by another's bow is only barbed by our own thoughts."

I do not say that to relieve myself of the responsibilty for what I said...I indeed did use language that was hurtful, although I intended it more for "wakeup" purposes than offense (bad strategy on my part).

Much of what a few people have said has deeply offended me as well. While I am the original instigator and therefore don't have a right to complain, is it quite possible that neither of us are taking into account how deep some of the verbal jabs may be going? I certainly see where I was wrong, and I do regret that my comments came out so sharply. I'd like to continue the conversation without these attacks...no more from me direct at others, and if I may be so humble, please stop leveling the bombs my way as well (if you have a few more to get off your chest, go for it, but then please ignore me or tell me what has bothered you specifically, as you have been, so I may address it).

I did not write my post on behalf of the APA, the AAMFT, the ABACABAHCHAHCA, or whatever. I wrote it as me, and therefore I'm not saying "therapists universally hate this." I'm saying it troubles me, and MAY trouble others. Clearly it does not trouble a great many.

Fallen, it seems kind of counterintuitive to leave psychobabble. You've been an active participant and have received a great deal of support, including this thread.

Besides, if I'm simply masquerading and have no real clue what I'm talking about, why does it matter what I think? I really, honestly do not intend for that to sound sarcastic, but rather I hope it gives you a way to put what I've said into your own working perspective.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 18:55:56

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Fallen4myT, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 18:34:17

I accept your sort of apology for how you worded things and I agree that this topic IS done for the most part because it is jabbing at all involved. I too do not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I am not leaving because of "YOU" but to be honest (and I am sure you want honesty) because what was a fun area for me is now like a field of landminds and also some civility issues maybe. I am in therapy, I have "issue" so for me to come here and disagree is GOOD and I like that but to have areas ruined and have hurtful things thrown at me and others no matter WHO does it or why is not what I want or need. A number of people have asked me not to leave so we shall see. I STILL do stand my all I said as far as what I feel and believe.
I hope I am not "going at it" but I did address what you said about how you said you did not say to protect your T. I really would like a reply to that but you obviously do not have to. I personally see that as I posted by saying what you said THE IMPLIED message was that. So that I understand, you are now saying it is OK to ask? But wish people would not ask you? I ask this not because of what you say you are going to school for but so I can be clear on what you ARE saying so I can better understand your point. When anyone posts I really wish to understand what they are trying to say not just the words they use.

 

Re: please be civil/ SORRY CORRECTED

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:10:33

In reply to Re: please be civil tinydancer Fallen4myT obSession, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 1:40:41

I am sorry I should have worded this to say that no matter who said what *I* as well as my T feel it is insensitive to shame people for what they desire or wish to ask their therapist.

> to be so cruel as to chew people out for how they feel and work with their experienced therapists ... my T ... said VERY INSENSITIVE and a few more things I will not post.
>
> Fallen4myT

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Fallen4myT

Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:28:53

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 18:55:56

What I am saying is that whether or not it is "okay" to ask is dependent on the unique personalities and dynamic between you and your therapist. So is it "okay," yes, it's "okay," because I do think you should be allowed to say/ask whatever you want in therapy.

However, "allowed" does not mean you necessarily should. If your situation with your therapist makes it seem appropriate, great. However, please, in general, do not assume that your therapist is immune to whatever you say and will just be able to roll with it no matter what. Our difference between "respect" and "protect," it seems, is very small. I do not think you have a DUTY to your therapist unless something is in your therapeutic contract. Therefore, I don't see it as "protecting." But please afford your therapist the respect you would give to anyone else who may not be invincible.

I guess the picture issue at face value isn't what concerns me. I was initially more worried by what these desires for pictures seemed to imply...where they were being placed, how they were being treated, the relationship implicities that APPEARED to be being attached (note I did not say they were. This is only how it sounded to me). Having a picture is fine if that's all it is...I guess if a client asked me for a picture and I thought it was just because they enjoyed having a collection of pictures of those who've helped them, as a previous poster mentioned, I'd be happy to oblige. They already know what I look like, so no harm done.

However, some attitudes seemed initially to be a bit more.....I wish I had the right word. Maladaptive...romantic...fetishistic (not DSM sense, just everyday use). PLEASE, please, pleaaase do not take offense to the use of those words. They are NOT what I am trying to say, but I can't think of a better way to put it and I'm hoping you can get my message. In these cases, I think it might help the therapy process to keep in mind that your therapist is bound by extremely stringent ethical guidelines which, realistically, can be difficult to follow for some people at some times. I guess when I hear a client trying to get a therapist to break those guidelines, I feel a bit disappointed in the motives for therapy. ***HOWEVER*** - and I will not respond to posts about what I just said that ignore what I am about to say:

1. You do not ultimately have any of the responsibility to keep your therapist out of trouble with ethics boards. This is entirely up to him or her.

2. I, and I hope other current and future mental health professionals, would NEVER blame YOU, the client, should an ethical violation take place, regardless of what either you or the therapist may or may have not done to encourage it.

So really, do what you want. This is more of an appeal to compassion and approprium, rather than how "Apperceptor Feels Therapy Should Be, vol. 2."

There is also the issue that you may not anticipate how your requests may affect your therapists. This, again, is not your problem. However, do not be surprised if it doesn't go as planned.

Actual Example from 2 Years Ago (abbreviated, but factual):

<"blah blahs" are not to trivialize, just to edit the parts we are all too familiar with>

Client: Can we just go get something to eat?
Me: I'm sorry, XXX, I think (nice calm boundary talk blah blah).
Client: So you don't like me enough?
Me: I do, but (reiterate boundary blah blah)
Client: So you think I'm nice but you wouldn't date me?
Me: XXX, that isn't quite what I said (rephrase boundary blah)
Client: So are you a faggot?

Now look what happens here. Just so happens, that yes, I am a gay male...a "faggot." How do I respond? For one, the client has used a term that has seriously offended me, and I didn't hesitate to professionally share that with her. But now what is my recompense? Yes, I am a "faggot," but am I comfortable telling clients that while I try to deal with current workplace bias and apply to graduate school? No, not in the least. Can I think of an excuse that won't be obviously scraping the barrel, right there on the spot? No. Have I been caught completely offguard and left stumbling? Yes. Do I continue seeing her? Yes. Has it adversely affected the therapeutic relationship? I try not to let it, I consult with supervisors, I do soul-searching, I remind myself that I am a professional, but......unfortunately, yes! Because I am still a human.

I hope my position is more clear. Please let me know if you'd like more flushed out.

Regards-

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:38:31

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Fallen4myT, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:28:53

No, no need for more. I get what youre saying now. And for the record I have not nor would I ask my T for a picture..much too shy. Would I like one :) YES...Would I do bad things with it on the web say or other misuse no way. Would some people Oh yes I am with you there. I am also sorry that someone called you a name...how aweful. Thank you for clarifying your stance for me. I wish you had posted this first and I am sure you do too by now :) Wishing you a nice night.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:41:25

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:38:31

You have a wonderful night as well! :-)

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg Apperceptor

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:44:31

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:41:25

Thanks :)

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 21:56:28

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 17:25:35

You know; it doesn't seem to me that you answered my questions, but it seems like you are working through something important and powerful for yourself from reading the other posts. Take gentle care, for you do carry such great responsibilities and for your very precious human self.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:22:43

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley, posted by rs on March 6, 2004, at 11:17:28

rs: :) :) :) :) :) Sounds like you have a therapist that you find a good fit for now, how wonderful.

Falls: Thank you for the invitation. :) :) :) Time and energy are hard to manage these days between full-time school, trying to make a living, seeing clients, and, of course, the most challenging one for me--taking care of myself. I am fond of this community, and will try to do my best.

Dinah: :) :) :) :) :) I respect what you have to say lot. So very honest.

Fallen, glad that you seemed to have worked some things out with this one. So sorry for you feel distressed, at least at one point.... :( Thank you for your reply to me.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:25:48

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley, posted by gardenergirl on March 6, 2004, at 16:57:28

(How come I always manage to miss a few steps? I meant to include a reply to you in the post below.)

Gardengirl, :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley emmaley

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:29:18

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:22:43

Thanks Emmaley I thought I had it fixed but I am not so sure :( time will tell no? :)

hugs

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley

Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 22:33:54

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley emmaley, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:29:18

Fallen-

If you feel you've not been able to work through it, I think you've at least demonstrated, from the little I've seen, that you do have a wealth of personal resources.

You know, I would be surprised if there isn't some sort of article, task force, or something that addresses the sort of feelings you have for your therapist in a supportive yet realistic way. I'd be happy to pass anything along if I see it. Have you looked at the APA website?

I should also mention that my earlier references to ethical guidelines are based only on my knowledge of those for clinical and counseling doctoral psychologists. I would imagine they are very similar for other therapy professionals, but I cannot say for sure.

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley/Appercepto Apperceptor

Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:42:39

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 22:33:54

Thanks Apperceptor, :) thats nice of you but I like how I feel for my T and he is all for it. Tis a long story :) not worth posting. I was more referring to the home front and just my life in general. Like today, my husband is being a jerk and hasn't spoken to me all day and night. I only have him here as a human contact so that and health issues and stuff makes it a really hard day and thats crytic I know but I never post much on me in here.

 

Re: please be civil Dr. Bob

Posted by tinydancer on March 7, 2004, at 8:21:25

In reply to Re: please be civil tinydancer Fallen4myT obSession, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 1:40:41

I'm sorry if I violated your policies Dr. Bob. I really tried to be civil and not speak for anyone but myself and put emphasis on my own feelings. But I want to I apologize if anyone felt accused or put down.
> >

> Thanks for everyone's efforts to be civil. Practice makes perfect? Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Posting something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley

Posted by obSession on March 7, 2004, at 11:40:47

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 1:23:44

Thanks for your post Emm , you certainly expressed yourself really well without an undertone which I did ...and couldnt help!

what you said was brilliant and clearly expressed to me a sense of true professionalism , ethics and care.....I see that you have genuine empathy for human suffering....what I want to ask you is ....as someone working in the field , how are you able to deal with other working professionals whose perspectives are not different to yours but rather contradict yours and there views of "helping" is contradictory to the profession?

thanks :)
good to know there are still those out there like you....i agree with you totally that the client needs total freedom to express anything.
and if those thoughts are "I am finding myself wanting a picture of u" so be it because it is the clients frame of referance and should be respected..regardless..

thanks :)

 

Re: thanks for the heads up, gg

Posted by Apperceptor on March 7, 2004, at 14:21:47

In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg emmaley, posted by obSession on March 7, 2004, at 11:40:47

My view of helping is not contradictory to the profession. For one thing, there are many approaches to therapy. Rational-emotive therapy, for example, is considerably more confrontational than I've been, yet it is widely accepted. Secondly, psychology is not all about therapy. Many psychologists do little to no therapy, with their emphasis on research, program planning and evalutation, and intellectual/personality/neuropsychological assessment. I believe less than 15% of graduates of my program go on to do therapy as their primary trade.

You're inferring much more than I feel I said. It is not easy to get into a clinical program, as I'm sure Gardner Girl can attest to. I recently assisted the admissions committee with their decisions, and part of the process is screening for individuals who may have less than ideal motives for entering a psychology program.


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