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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KindGirl on February 16, 2004, at 20:45:12
I am so furious right now and I don't know why. Some insight, please?....
I am feeling like I am always going to be alone...that my T. is just doing her job...she is a very well known t. in the area and has a waiting list and I feel like this is a joke.
I feel like therapy is just a big exercise that will leave me exposed and all alone. Yes, I tell t. this and yes, she tells me that I won't always feel this way...she does really care....bla bla bla. It is all bu((sh*$ if you ask me.
I don't know what to do. I feel like curling up in a ball and hiding in my closet and crying for about 3 days straight!!!!;(
Do we ever feel like our t.'s really care? Are they just doing their job? How can they care for all of their clients? Why do I feel like this is a big set up? She has been a t. for like 20 years and has helped a zillion people. I don't think she really cares for me.
I don't like it that I call her and have to leave a message on her machine and wait for her her to call me back. It's like I expose myself and then sit and wait. I hate this so much I wanna quit. :(((((
Posted by pegasus on February 17, 2004, at 0:03:44
In reply to So pissed at my T. right now..., posted by KindGirl on February 16, 2004, at 20:45:12
Hi KG,
Is it possible that what you are describing could be a type of transference? We always talk about the positive romantic or mother transferences here, but they're supposed to be able to go negative, too. The reason I mention it is that you didn't report anything that she's done that seems particularly bad (other than the standard therapist set up, which can be pretty infuriating, I'll agree).
I guess, if this were transference, the thing to do would be to see if you can find where you've had this type of feeling in a relationship before. And maybe that'll make it more clear why you're so angry now.
But maybe I'm just totally off here. If so, sorry.
- p
Posted by Kind Girl on February 17, 2004, at 9:44:04
In reply to Re: So pissed at my T. right now..., posted by pegasus on February 17, 2004, at 0:03:44
I am not sure....in a nutshell I have been in complete denial of my childhood abuse my entire life...a crisis (aint that the way it is) caused me to sever ties with my mother (she severed the ties actually)...she is the main abuser in my life (I had several but she is the biggest).
In my t. work I am remembering being left for long periods of time as an infant...a very small infant.....and you know my first reaction to all of it is, "This is bullsh(*....this didn't really happen...you are trying to get attention...."...which t. says it the denial and coping talking but it really DID happen and we really DO need to listen to that little baby.
So......the little baby who was told to quit crying (and obeyed) is now crying hysterically all the time time. T. says for me to call her...for me to picture her there with me as an infant, holding me...and again I say, "Bullsh(*."
This hurts too bad.
I feel like my T. has lured me to a place of despair and I can't comfort myself or find comfort anywhere but through her. So, I call her (hate doing that...feel like a bother...a leech)....and then I have to wait hours for her to call me back!!!!!!!! Why does that infuriate me?? I don't want to talk to a frickin answering machine. I want my mommy...and there ain't no mommy coming for me. T. tells me that I need to feel these feelings and I really don't think I can take much more of this or I am going to die inside. I don't think she understands how bad I feel. She says she cares, she got me a gift for my birthday...and I feel like an impossible brat who needs to go away now. :((((
Thanks for listening.
Posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 11:40:17
In reply to Childhood abuse triggering me ?????, posted by Kind Girl on February 17, 2004, at 9:44:04
You are most likely in what is known as the emergency stage. Have you done any reading about what to expect as you open all this stuff up? It is like being back there. You can be retriggered and the old feelings sometimes take control. Then the adult you is angry because it does seem over-the-top needy and clingy. And the pain isn't about the present, it is about the past. But since we can't change the past, we stay angry in the present.
What other supports do you have, besides your Therapist? It seems important that you have someone else to sit with, who can just let you feel what you feel. Someone who doesn't want to make it better, who doesn't want to cure you, tell you to get over it or be your Therapist. Try to think of just one person.
Let me know if you like to read, I'll recommend some books. It would help to know if the trauma was violence or sexual, or both. Different books.
Keep posting. It helps. I've been where you are (as early as yesterday...). You are not alone.
-D
Posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 13:48:41
In reply to Re: Childhood abuse triggering me ?????, posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 11:40:17
You nailed it. On the nose!
I am definitely in emergency mode right now...I can honestly say that today has been the worst day of my life.
I am a reader.
Started reading In Session and it is blowing my mind how accurate it is.
Been in t. 2 years now. Once a week. No extra fee for phone calls...tells me to call as much as I want. I am a christian (does that matter?)...she is a christian therapist and author, so I feel like she is "doing her ministry for God" and I happen to be at her door.My abuse was neglect for many years. Left alone in crib....force fed shitty food my entire life, and I mean shitty food. Alcoholic and mentally ill mother. Still drinks. No contact with mother now for 2 years. She told me she didn't want to see me ever again (for no reason, just one of her drunken exclamations, and I took her up on it and ran as fast as I could for the door to freedom). Drug addict brother. Father left when I was 12 and told us we were mistakes.
Teacher molested/seduced me in high school.Aren't you glad you asked? Actually, thank you for asking and for caring. I feel less alone knowing someone hears my silent screams.
There is other abuse in there but that is the big picture. I struggle the most with abandonment I think....one day my dad was there and that night he was gone. He was the nice parent. He left me with the monster and hell became even worse from that point on....and so now I don't want to attach to anyone or anything. I am convinced t. is going to abandon me and there seems to be nothing she can do to convince me otherwise.I feel like I am the most impossible client...there will never be any pleasing me unless she gave me a kidney, I think. I am always going to be alone sooner or later. That is what I have learned.
I am married and have kids and they love me to pieces...I love them too but I am just way too sick and hurting right now to see the silver lining in them right now. I hide all of this inside. I am still a soccer mom and a great wife but I am literally bleeding to death inside.
Any books you recommend I will soak up like a sponge....thank you for listening and for caring.
Posted by antigua on February 17, 2004, at 16:31:22
In reply to Re: Childhood abuse triggering me ????? » DaisyM, posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 13:48:41
You are not alone. We are here for you.
Try "Getting Through the Day" by Nancy J. Napier. I'm not too far into it but it's about strategies for adults hurt as children (its subtitle). It's helped me feel like I can have a little power over my overwhelming thoughts.
Try to remember, even little baby steps take time. I remember being left all alone in the cold, hard wooden playpen with no sheet or cover, hungry as can be. All grimy and dirty, waiting for someone to come take care of my most basic human needs. I wonder how I remember that, but I know it's true.I have three kids, too. I just try to do my very best for them, so they don't have to go through a fraction of what I did. They're spoiled rotten w/love.
Hang in there. Post and we will listen,
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 17:58:05
In reply to Re: Childhood abuse triggering me ?????, posted by antigua on February 17, 2004, at 16:31:22
Another question to start: Does you Husband know what you are going through right now? Do you trust him to help you? If you say "yes", you are really lucky. If you say "no", you have lots of company (me included). I know EXACTLY what you mean by trusting and needing your Therapist and hating that. There is huge shame involved in that kind of need. You just have to keep making yourself go to each session and you have to try to find a way to believe that she is there to help you. Remind yourself if nothing else, she won't desert you because it is her job to help you. She needs the income and a Therapist who develops a reputation as uncaring won't last very long or be very successful.
I can say all this knowing how hard it is...see my thread below! Very recently, my Therapist recommended the work book: "Courage to Heal". There is also a book that goes with it. We are doing some of the writing assignments in the book and he gives me others as well, or we add to the ones in the book. I deal with my feelings by writing A LOT. I will warn you that I found some of the stories in the book hard to read. But, they do normalize the process of sorting this stuff out, somewhat. I felt *better* knowing that I wasn't the only competent (at least reasonably so) person that felt like their life was turned upside down and shaken, not stirred. That doesn't mean I'm not still freaked out and hurting much of the time. But at least I know I'm not going off the deep end completely.
The other thing to watch for in this stage are the black, suicidal thoughts that creep in. There was a thread full of advice about this not too long ago. If this is a problem for you, I'll find the thread and post it. The most important part for me was telling my Therapist that I felt like I was coming apart. His solution is almost always more sessions, more phone contact and some kind of a containment plan. I resist because I don't think I'm "supposed" to have so much contact but he knows this about me, knows I minimize things and so he typically nicely "insists" that I see him or call. (And you know I am secretly relieved to have it taken out of my hands.)
Post...post...post! Babble has helped me when nothing else did. We are here for you.
Posted by antigua on February 17, 2004, at 18:18:06
In reply to Such sad stories... (long), posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 17:58:05
Interesting you would bring that up as I was discussing that today.
My husband only knows a fraction of what I'm going through, mostly because I want to protect him from the horror of the truth of it. Well, I guess I protect myself. My husband goes ballastic when I discuss this w/him--he is so angry at my father, he hates him w/a passion. It's almost not worth discussing it because he ends up taking out his anger on the kids, or me, in one way or another--he feels badly for me and he can't do anything about it. He can't FIX it.
Today my T told me that maybe I'm letting my husband carry my anger for me. He is so angry that I don't have to deal w/it. I think she's right and I never really considered it. She said, what if you agree w/him when he starts talking bad about your father, what would he do? She asked if I could take that first step (since I can't seem to express my anger). I don't know if I can.
I know that I confuse my husband w/my father, and I have to remind myself that I can't punish him for the sins of my father. It's hard not to though. My husband is a good man, but to discuss the abuse just means I have to deal w/him on top of figuring out how I actually feel about it.
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 22:38:15
In reply to Husbands, posted by antigua on February 17, 2004, at 18:18:06
Mixing up my husband with my father is exactly what I have been going through! Only my husband doesn't know it, he doesn't know I'm struggling with all of this right now in therapy. I told him a very long time ago (20 yrs, before we got married) a tiny bit about what happened. He assumes I'm "over it." (Gosh, so did I!) My husband is very angry at life right now so he simply can't be there for me through all of this. (I hear Fallsfall's voice telling me I don't truly know this if I don't give him a chance to help me...but I'm not that brave right now.)
My only real flashback occurred recently during sex and now I'm terrified it is going to happen again. I actually have worked up the nerve to discuss my sex life during therapy. My Therapist gave me "permission" to "fend him off" -- LOL. But it is something that comes into play when you get your feelings mix up between your husband and your father. And it is really hard to talk about.
*sigh* I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 23:12:21
In reply to Such sad stories... (long), posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 17:58:05
Man it is like I am reading my own journal here.
Thank you a zillion times for the gentle support here during, a very very shitty day. Sorry if no cussing is allowed, but it was a shitty day. I have never cried this much for this long so deeply before in my life.No, my husband is not "there for me"....he does try. I will give him that. He has his own childhood abuse stuff he is still stuffing down and so I can't depend on him to be there as a source of strength really. He is hot and cold. Last night I was sobbing myself to sleep...he asked me what was wrong...I said I didn't know, I was just sad....he reached over, patted my hand and was snoring within 2 minutes. Oh well...I got a pat.
T. tells me that I should have hubby hold me when I am like this, but I don't want HIM holding me...I want HER holding me. Somehow the fantasy gets shattered when his prickly chest hairs go in my nostrils!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(
I will get the books you guys recommended. Thanks for that.
Suicidal thoughts???? Well yes and no. Just wanting to be dead is more like it. Would never do that to my kids.
Called T today and left her a message...crying...and she called back and left me a message (I don't like talking voice to voice between sessions)...said that I am to continue feeling these feelings...these deep deep wounds from such an early age...I need to keep calling her. She is here for me...bla bla bla.
I just wish there was some way, somehow to dump some of this on her. I can't help but feel like I am carrying this enormous burden on my shoulder and she is there on the sidelines saying, "Yes you ARE carrying a huge load! Let's talk about the huge load. It is okay to complain about the huge load."...when I want to scream, "DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!"
Talking about all of this is fine and dandy but at the end of the day it is me and my pillow and my soul full of inconsolable sorrow and that is such a sad place to be. If anyone else is there at that place, could you please let me know and bring some chips and red licorice and we will eat in bed, okay?
Posted by DaisyM on February 18, 2004, at 0:04:25
In reply to I can relate to every one of you...., posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 23:12:21
You just have to keep breathing...in and out. This will get better. Try imagining a safe place where your pain isn't allowed. This can be one way to calm things down. Also, stay with other people as much as you can. Too much time in your own head can be overwhelming too.
Take care. I hope tomorrow is better.
Posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 12:49:43
In reply to I can relate to every one of you...., posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 23:12:21
Yep, that's the way I feel to--at the end of the day it's just me and my pillow. My husband would probably willingly hug me 24 hrs/day, but then he always wants it to lead to sex, which is most definitely NOT what I want at those times. While I do have people who support me (including you guys), I have to figure this out for myself, and make my life work for me. It's very sad and lonely when you never learned good coping skills.But I'm trying!!
Daisy, I'm sorry about the flashback. For me, it's that I can't stand to be touched at certain times and I absolutely hate my husband, to the point that I could hit him, or really hurt him. My T says to tell him no, but this is a marriage and a relationship that's very important to me. I've noticed that it has gotten worse lately, the merging of my husband and father. My husband doesn't know too many details. My Ts and I argue about this constantly. I know that my husband cannot handle the details, it really, really upsets him to the point that it's just not worth discussing. Maybe one day I'll get past that.
Kind Girl, Do you have any children?
antigua
Posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 14:35:49
In reply to Such sad stories... (long), posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 17:58:05
Yes, I've read "The Courage to Heal" but I haven't done any of the writing assignments. I don't know why I can't do them, but I just can't. Thanks for the suggestion.
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on February 18, 2004, at 14:59:49
In reply to Re: Such sad stories... (long) Daisy, posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 14:35:49
You said once that since you were a professional writer this was a subject that you couldn't write about. I find this interesting. Maybe you are too in touch with your emotions when you write and there for you've cut this off as too painful? Just a guess.
I blow hot and cold about the book. In some ways it helps, in others it is SO hard to read. It makes me minimize what happen to me.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 18, 2004, at 16:09:05
In reply to Re: Husbands » antigua, posted by DaisyM on February 17, 2004, at 22:38:15
(((Daisy))
I had my only flashback during sex as well... It's rough and I didn't stop him, which kind of made it worse. I just cried. He didn't notice.
But, I've had sex since then hoping another would come so I can "just get over it" It doesn't work that way I guess, as the sex since then has just been regular sex.
I encourage you to talk about sex, if you need to.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 18, 2004, at 16:13:59
In reply to Re: I can relate to every one of you...., posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 12:49:43
About telling husbands/SO no:
I'm the same way. I just can't say no. If I don't want to I'll say no once, but he doesn't give up.
Other times, I fel it's my "obligation" to be a "good girl, girlfriend" That's what I'm supposed to do. Shut my mouth and hope it's fast.
I haven't noticed any type of merging except during the flashback, though I did have a dream where my boyfriend suddenly turned into my father and he had sex with me. Then he cried and said he was sorry... I wonder if that makes it better?
Posted by Karen_kay on February 18, 2004, at 16:18:47
In reply to Re: Such sad stories... (long) Daisy, posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 14:35:49
If you don't mind my asking... Aren't you confused? I mean my father was the greatest. And now, he's not so great. I'm just really confused as to what to believe. I don't remember much, juts a few inappropriate occassions where he made me touch him and such, but now I've had a flashback of him having sex with me. And I keep having nightmares where he is having sex with me. Does that make it true? I just don't know what to believe anymore... Do you ever feel that way? I mean, he was so great, even if I do have "all the signs." Sorry if you don't want to answer, that's fine to but aren't you in a similar situation? Isn't it very confusing? Don't you feel lost sometimes?
Posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 22:51:48
In reply to One more thing.. » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on February 18, 2004, at 16:18:47
You certainly are asking the right questions. Am I confused about my father? Well, I don't know. How do you like that for confusing???? Everytime I think I've taken a step to figure him out, I take a huge step backwards.
So here's part of my story.
I was totally devoted to my father when I was a little girl. I would have been with him 24 hrs a day if he had allowed it. I was most definitely Daddy's little girl, and I got stuck in that stage of development and have never really gotten over it. He was everything to me. Now, this is true for most little girls--little girls love their father and want to grow up and marry them. Usually the mother steps in and straightens her out (you know, Daddy belongs to Mommy and you'll find someone of your own when you grow up, etc.) Well, my mother didn't. We had a large family and my younger sibling was very sick all the time, in and out of the hospital, so she couldn't care for us all properly. There's a lot more to her, I'm just simplifying this, but the gist of it is that she was very unavailable to me and my father was more available. I never got over the daddy stage because my father took advantage of me--sexually and emotionally. But I didn't know any better, I just knew I loved him. And I was afraid that if I spoke up, he would leave or my mother would be so angry at what I'd done that she would leave. So the abuse happened and I became a really warped little girl. How could I love this man who did these horrible things to me? I know now that I disassociated and remained physically paralyzed, and wouldn't move as I believed that signaled willingness or collaboration. I was just so dirty.
My father did end up leaving us and my mother became even more emotionally unavailable. I was shifted around between my parents and had a pretty unhappy adolescence. I don't know when the abuse stopped.
Most of my life I defended my father against the rest of our family, but the fact of the matter is that he was not a very nice man. He was selfish, cruel and abusive to everyone, had no regard for anyone else's feelings or needs, etc. My T says he was narcisstic but I haven't had a chance to begin to explore this. He was abused and abandoned as a kid himself. He wanted what he wanted when he wanted it. He drank a lot and I can still smell the liquor on his breath. He had an explosive temper and a biting sarcasm that could cut anyone to the quick. I was blind to all that. I just loved him.
I didn't consciously know about the abuse until right before he died, when some little exchange between the two of us sent up a warning flag. I was very close to him in his later years, took care of him, nursed him, etc. I still loved him. I believe in my heart that he had to be dead before I would ever face this. All the signs were always there, I just didn't acknowledge them.
He was two people to me: the good father and the evil father. There were good parts to him, but I also defined him as good because I couldn't dare admit how bad he really was to me. Kids always take on the responsibility and I believed if I was just good enough, did exactly what he wanted, etc. he wouldn't leave me. But he did anyway.
I now concentrate on trying to integrate these images of him. I haven't realized the full "evil" father yet as I have been unable to face the terror and the anger. Being angry at him would make him responsible and not me.
That's about where I am now. I'm not defensive anymore about what a bad guy he was in our family, and I love him and hate him. My T says I'm too willing to forgive because I don't, can't or won't deal w/my anger. She's probably right.
Sorry this is so long. I'm still confused but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel. Getting over the shame and humiliation is very difficult and they keep rearing their ugly heads just when I thought I'd convinced myself that this wasn't my fault. Rationally I know it was not my fault, but the little girl still doesn't understand.
Ask anything you want, as long as it's o.k. for you--that goes to all of you. I worry that I say too much sometimes and trigger other people because I'm pretty outspoken.
antigua
Posted by KindGirl on February 18, 2004, at 23:17:09
In reply to Re: One more thing..Karen Kay(long,long), posted by antigua on February 18, 2004, at 22:51:48
I have been working a lot today and unable to follow most of these threads...read over them briefly and want to say I love it how you guys share.
Antiqua, you didn't offend me by anything you shared. If anything it opens up my heart in compassion to you more now that i know a bit more.
I need to share my story here sometime...are there any rules? Don't want to offend and I am new here.
Thanks everyone for the insight...God it all is so familiar...esp the husband comments. Are we married to the same man? ha ha. Seems like it.Someone asked me(sorry I am rushing) if I have kids. Yes I have 3. Ages 9 10 12...that is why I am rushing right now!!! I need to get everyone to bed and they are jazzed and hyped from American Idol. Sigh....
Love to each of you.
Until later...KG
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2004, at 23:26:39
In reply to I can relate to every one of you...., posted by KindGirl on February 17, 2004, at 23:12:21
> Thank you a zillion times for the gentle support here during, a very very sh[*]tty day. Sorry if no cussing is allowed, but it was a sh[*]tty day.
Sorry, but only c*ssing is allowed. :-) Because the idea is not to use language that could offend others.
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ianhills on February 23, 2004, at 7:28:18
In reply to So pissed at my T. right now..., posted by KindGirl on February 16, 2004, at 20:45:12
dont know what to do at the moment life sucks the more pills i take the more depessed i get now im on Efexor 600 mg a day and i cry all the time for a male it geting embarassing cry over movies on tv there has to be some thing better out there, help me if you can im feeling down
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