Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 312615

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Re: Validation » Miss Honeychurch

Posted by Rigby on February 13, 2004, at 10:32:58

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by Miss Honeychurch on February 13, 2004, at 8:41:28

Practice makes perfect, eh? Good advise. It feels as far off as the sun though for me. Maybe just *try* and *try* and *try.* I find though with, for example, my writing (I write screenplays) that it's *so* hard sometimes to see what's good objectively. Like the group I'm in will go absolutely nutso crazy good about something I've written and I have *no* clue, no ability to step outside myself--don't know what's "good"--it's quite frustrating! Right now I'm with an *amazing* collaborator who easily steps outside the work but man, when I'm inside it, I can't see a *thing* sometimes.
> Over the past 6 months since I've been in therapy, it has been pounded into my head so much that the only approval I need is my own, that I have finally begun to believe it. I find I don't need half the validation I used to.

 

Re: Validation » Rigby

Posted by fallsfall on February 13, 2004, at 11:39:40

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by Rigby on February 13, 2004, at 10:28:19

> This is *such* a good point. And also, if we were to just stand straight, as you say, and look truth in the eye not only would it vanish but, maybe the difficulty is, what would remain in its place? Are we just too used to being full of self-doubt? Is self-doubt such an integral part of our being that we'd feel not "ourselves" without it?
>
I felt that if my therapist did not give me the approval that I needed that I couldn't exist. It wasn't so much that I would die (or kill myself) - it was more like I would disappear or disintegrate. I wouldn't "be". I have read that this kind of feeling indicates a lack of "self".

 

Re: Validation » Rigby

Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:23

In reply to Validation, posted by Rigby on February 12, 2004, at 21:05:26

I do need validation, but I'm not sure I need the same sort. I think I'm pretty aware of what I do well and what I do not so well and what I do dreadfully. And I don't need validation about myself or my capabilities or strengths so much.

Where I *do* need tons of validation is with him, whether I can trust him, whether he is who I think he is and our relationship is what I think it is, whether he actually cares or just likes my money, whether he sighs when he sees my name in his appointment book. What's "real" and what's my projection onto him of what I need him to be. And if I'm building something that I really rely upon on the basis of nothing more than fantasy.

He was fussing at me yesterday about it. Saying that I was projecting my fears onto him. That he hadn't done anything to make me feel that he was anything other than what I've thought him to be or our relationship is anything other than what I thought it was.

I told him that I was afraid that he, and the relationship between us, was all on my side and wasn't based in reality. And he told me he couldn't reassure me because he didn't know what I thought our relationship was, or what I thought he was. Immensely frustrating, as I didn't know what he wanted, and he refused to ask. He said I needed to tell him if I wanted to know. It felt like a huge game of withholding and hide and seek, and I'm guessing it felt the same thing on his side. That I was asking for something from him without making clear what it was.

So I asked the standard questions. That I thought he was at least mildly fond of me. (He said yes). That I thought he would care if something bad happened to me (He said yes). That he didn't sigh when he saw his name in the appt book (he laughed). That he would care if I quit coming. He told me that that would of course be my choice. I fussed at him that that wasn't what I asked. And he said yes, he would care, but that as a therapist it was part of his life that it was the client's choice. I asked if he would just miss the income stream, and he laughed and said no.

I told him I knew he had problems with dependent women and was a bit put off by that in me. He didn't comment. And that I thought he was slightly repulsed by my grooming and odd appearance. And he got mad and said of course not, why would I say that. And I reminded him of the time he said something like that. And he said he meant other people might accept me better, not that it was something that repulsed him.

He fussed all along that he had already told me these things. And I guess that's true. But how do you *know* what's real? It's not like he would tell me that he couldn't stand me. Sigh.

And somehow I think I didn't ask the questions that I really had in mind, because I don't know what they were. And I'm a bit angry with him for not helping me figure them out.

I know he wants me to take responsibility, and probably doesn't want me to need validation or caring or reassurance from him.

And maybe he's right. But......

I feel so needy. And not righteously needy like an infant. But greedily needy. Like I'm trying to suck something from him.

Sigh.

 

Re: Validation » Dinah

Posted by fallsfall on February 13, 2004, at 12:29:00

In reply to Re: Validation » Rigby, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:23

>It's not like he would tell me that he couldn't stand me. Sigh.

Of course he wouldn't tell you that he couldn't stand you. That would be a lie, and he doesn't lie to you.

I'm impressed you asked all those questions and I think he answered them admirably.

Do you feel a little more secure now?

 

Re: Validation » fallsfall

Posted by Crooked Heart on February 13, 2004, at 13:06:32

In reply to Re: Validation » Rigby, posted by fallsfall on February 13, 2004, at 11:39:40

>I felt that if my therapist did not give me the approval that I needed that I couldn't exist. It wasn't so much that I would die (or kill myself) - it was more like I would disappear or disintegrate. I wouldn't "be". I have read that this kind of feeling indicates a lack of "self".
>

Talk about striking a chord! The need is so deep within isn't it? What I learned from therapy was 'Yes you exist, yes you matter, yes you feelings matter, no you are not alone in an indifferent dangerous universe'.

And that goes for everybody here!

(Credit cards accepted)

 

Re: Validation » Dinah

Posted by Crooked Heart on February 13, 2004, at 14:44:02

In reply to Re: Validation » Rigby, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:23

>
> And somehow I think I didn't ask the questions that I really had in mind, because I don't know what they were.

I might be getting this wrong, but is it like 'if I could only find the right question and get the right answer then things will be OK?' (Or if I can read the right book, get the right dx...?) But sometimes I wonder whether the words exist, and that things happen inside, and during therapy, that our language just doesn't have the words and ideas to describe. Also wonder whether the struggling itself works in a way that that we don't understand. So that there's a result from your and your therapist's frustrating efforts even if it doesn't feel like it.

> I know he wants me to take responsibility, and probably doesn't want me to need validation or caring or reassurance from him.
> >
> I feel so needy. And not righteously needy like an infant. But greedily needy. Like I'm trying to suck something from him.
>
I used to sometimes think I was like a vampire.
It might have been Jung (not exactly my greatest idol, but he had some good ideas), who said that our problems are rarely 'solved', but we manage to grow out of them eventually.

Hope this waffling on is of some use.

Take care of yourself this weekend.

 

Re: Validation

Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 17:58:09

In reply to Re: Validation » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on February 13, 2004, at 12:29:00

>
> Do you feel a little more secure now?
>

Of *course* not!!! :)

Actually maybe yes. Today was a better session, and having a good session may be more validating than anything he can actually say. It was the sort that puts you through the wringer and terrifies you, yet you feel like you're in a safe place anyway. Go figure.

It started out the way it had been yesterday. I wailed "This is just like yesterday. You're reminding me of Dr. Bob!!!". He laughed, admitted that we had probably seen too much of each other this week (which I had thought was the problem), then realized that probably sounded rude and added something about it being an intense week. Then he started listening and I started describing better my thinking processes and why I was asking what I was asking, and when he understood why he quit being frustrated. That's what I like best about my therapist. He's almost always ready to take a deep breath and start over from scratch. (beaming smile)

 

Re: Above for Fallsfall (nm)

Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 17:58:32

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 17:58:09

 

Re: Validation » Crooked Heart

Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 18:08:55

In reply to Re: Validation » Dinah, posted by Crooked Heart on February 13, 2004, at 14:44:02

> >
> > And somehow I think I didn't ask the questions that I really had in mind, because I don't know what they were.
>
> I might be getting this wrong, but is it like 'if I could only find the right question and get the right answer then things will be OK?' (Or if I can read the right book, get the right dx...?)

LOL. You have me pegged there! That sounds so much like me. :) But getting the right answers, reading the right books, and finding the right diagnosis *does* help. Even if it doesn't make it all better. Because it's the not understanding that makes things so scary for me.

But in this case it might have been as much frustration at my inability to make myself clear as anything. I told him today that my son is too young to ask him why he did something and get a coherent answer. And that it was way more productive to say, "Well, when I was little, sometimes I did that and the reason was xxxx, but I've heard other people say they do it because yyyy. But I suppose the reason could also be zzzzz. Do any of these sound right?" And he will say yes or no and maybe tell us a bit more. I told him that sometimes I needed him to do that because I didn't have the right words. And he told me to tell him that if I needed to. But remembering that under stress when I'm trying to please him by coming up with an answer is tough. Sigh. At least I feel understood today.

Validation! :)

> > I feel so needy. And not righteously needy like an infant. But greedily needy. Like I'm trying to suck something from him.
> >
> I used to sometimes think I was like a vampire.

I think of myself more as a particularly tenacious leech. :)

> It might have been Jung (not exactly my greatest idol, but he had some good ideas), who said that our problems are rarely 'solved', but we manage to grow out of them eventually.

Well, I'd better get started growing!! I haven't that many years left!

>
> Hope this waffling on is of some use.

Always. :)
>
> Take care of yourself this weekend.

You too.

 

Re: Validation » Dinah

Posted by DaisyM on February 13, 2004, at 20:58:13

In reply to Re: Validation » Rigby, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 11:54:23

I could have written this - except maybe the appearance part because I would never ask about that part. Never! (I don't want to know, really).

But the rest - totally. Especially about the greedy needy part.

And he would tell me also it was a projection. That is was coming from an old place. But I have a sense that THIS is one of the key pieces to helping me. Making me BELIEVE that he won't fail me. That people can help me, I don't have to do it all myself.

I'm trying to believe this really.

 

Re: Validation

Posted by DaisyM on February 13, 2004, at 21:07:07

In reply to Re: Validation » Crooked Heart, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 18:08:55

>>>And that it was way more productive to say, "Well, when I was little, sometimes I did that and the reason was xxxx, but I've heard other people say they do it because yyyy. But I suppose the reason could also be zzzzz. Do any of these sound right?" And he will say yes or no and maybe tell us a bit more. I told him that sometimes I needed him to do that because I didn't have the right words...


<<<EXACTLY. My Therapist does this sometimes and other times he waits for me. I think he doesn't want to plant ideas but sometimes I have none.

Today he told me that he should remember to spend sometime going over the process again so I can see that what I am feeling is totally normal, not that it isn't unique to me. He said, "I know understanding the process and what might happen is important to you. We have to feed your intellect while holding your feelings." Yes. Yes!! It took 1/2 hour of a meltdown on the phone but I finally, finally, felt like I could make it through the weekend. And he just kept talking until I could let him go. So yes, sometimes they get it totally right. But Monday still seems pretty far away.
:(

 

Re: Validation

Posted by shortelise on February 14, 2004, at 1:34:20

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by Rigby on February 13, 2004, at 10:28:19

Indeed, it's what would remain there scares the pee out of me.
What if there is nothing? My neurosis is pretty interesting, except when it makes me cry for days on end. What if it's the only interesting thing about me? What if I am a boring dolt without it?
ShortE

> This is *such* a good point. And also, if we were to just stand straight, as you say, and look truth in the eye not only would it vanish but, maybe the difficulty is, what would remain in its place? Are we just too used to being full of self-doubt? Is self-doubt such an integral part of our being that we'd feel not "ourselves" without it?
>
> Sometimes I truly feel self-deprecation and self-doubt are huge parts of my personality and maybe are things that are part of a certain charm. So who would I be without it? I really admire people who are confident but cannot stand people who feel and say that, for example, they're beautiful or sexy, etc.--total turn-off. Would never want to be one of these people or be around them. But how do you begin to feel more validated about yourself but not come off like a bragger?
>
>
> > Is it a bad habit?
> >
> > Sometimes I wonder that. I wonder if my madness isn't a habit, just a nasty habit, and that if I were to choose to stand straight and look the truth in the eye, it would vanish.
> >
> > I wonder, what's in this for me that I can't give it up, or choose not to? How do I benefit?
> >
> > I have only questions.
> >
> > ShortE
>
>

 

Re: Validation

Posted by Elle2021 on February 14, 2004, at 2:18:44

In reply to Validation, posted by Rigby on February 12, 2004, at 21:05:26

>Do you guys ever feel like endless black holes in terms of needing validation?

Yes. Especially concerning my professors. I have actually taken to tayloring my papers to their likes and dislikes in an effort to up my chances for validation (pathetic isn't it?). I have to give myself a little credit though, because if it's something I disagree with I say so, but if I don't have an opinion, then... It works actually. But still, no matter how much validation I recieve, I have a huge craving for more. It's a craving that can't be satisfied. I guess I'm just really insecure that way. Maybe someday I won't need to be told I'm intelligent or pretty, I'll just know I'm good enough. That would be nice.
Elle

 

Re: Validation » Dinah

Posted by Crooked Heart on February 14, 2004, at 5:27:07

In reply to Re: Validation » Crooked Heart, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2004, at 18:08:55

Maybe I'm beginning to get it to. I loved what you described about talking to your son. I guess you mean about trying to help someone get a handle on something when they don't know what it is and neither do you? Have I got that right?

 

Re: Validation » DaisyM

Posted by Crooked Heart on February 14, 2004, at 8:16:31

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by DaisyM on February 13, 2004, at 21:07:07

>
> Today he told me that he should remember to spend sometime going over the process again so I can see that what I am feeling is totally normal, not that it isn't unique to me. He said, "I know understanding the process and what might happen is important to you. We have to feed your intellect while holding your feelings." Yes. Yes!! It took 1/2 hour of a meltdown on the phone but I finally, finally, felt like I could make it through the weekend. And he just kept talking until I could let him go. So yes, sometimes they get it totally right. But Monday still seems pretty far away.
> :(

Is it seeing some sort of a pattern and purpose above what otherwise feels like chaotic pointless bloody suffering? (So the left brain has its uses?)

Oh dear this is going to sound so glib, and I don't know if it's what you need either. Please believe you will get through this and be better for it. Roll on Monday!

Thinking of you.

 

Re: Validation » DaisyM

Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2004, at 8:34:26

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by DaisyM on February 13, 2004, at 21:07:07

It's Tuesday for me, but as I'm feeling better it's not too scary.

I wish mine was more like yours in not needing things spelled out so clearly, like mine does. Some of what I say seems to be relatively common sense, yet it seems to come as a huge revelation to him. I dunno, maybe it's good for me to learn to verbalize that sort of stuff, but it's frustrating sometimes.

Yesterday he was getting annoyed at my asking over and over if he was angry about something. He said it felt like I thought he was lying to me. And I asked him if it had occurred to him that I was just so frightened by what I said that I needed to hear that he wasn't angry a few times to let it sink in. It hadn't occurred to him, and he wasn't angry anymore when I explained. But that wasn't a tough thing to figure out was it?

I'm glad you don't have to struggle like that with yours. :)

 

That's it! :) (nm) » Crooked Heart

Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2004, at 8:35:33

In reply to Re: Validation » Dinah, posted by Crooked Heart on February 14, 2004, at 5:27:07

 

You can't be the Black Hole for validation....

Posted by Racer on February 14, 2004, at 9:07:20

In reply to Re: Validation, posted by DaisyM on February 12, 2004, at 23:50:33

Because I am that Black Hole.

Yeah, I'm a work in progress, but I've found somethings that have at least helped the way I look at it.

First one is that I'm learning to admit how much of my self-image is as a LOSER, a total and complete failure, generally worthless, yaddida, yaddida. Now, the next step for some people who aren't losers would be to counter those feelings by pointing at something one does well, as proof that it's not true. I'm not there yet. But I am at a point where I can say, "OK, it's true that I don't do [x] perfectly, and it's probably true that I don't do [x] quite as well as I might be able to if I worked harder at it, but it's also true that I have completed [x] and that does count for something." I can also say things like, "Anyone who looks closely enough to see the mistakes I made in [x] Is Not My Friend." and "I don't have to compete against anyone except myself, so it doesn't matter than someone else could have done it better -- the *fact* is that I decided to do it, and then I did it."

Another thing that helped me was figuring out why I always feel like such a loser. Simple and clear as mud. My mother, when I was a kid, sometimes gave me approval for things. There was a picture I drew once, which she praised to the skies for having a precocious sense of perspective. Well, even at 5 or 6, I knew I was copying something I'd seen, so that praise didn't validate me. As I got older, though, my mother's unmet need for validation from her mother started her criticism of me ratcheting into high gear. Oh, and every thing my mother does is flawless. It really is. That's a tough act to follow, as you can imagine. So, now I know where my need for constant validation comes from: and I know something that helps me find an answer for improvement. Recognize who's approval I'm really needing, and start to find ways to internalize the validation I didn't get from the outside. I have to start learning to be my own internal mother's voice of approval.

None of the sorts of exercises where you write down your accomplishments has ever helped me, by the way, because I can always list the failures within them all, and even if I don't write that part down, I know it's there. But little triumphs help me. A lot of the little triumphs are very little, and they relate to something I've made. Not exactly the stuff of which legends are made, but they help. I get great satisfaction of a seam well sewn and pressed. Completing a sweater for my husband, or even for someone else, gives a good feeling. I think my next step is to learn to get that feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment from something unrelated to fibers.

I guess it's still baby steps, but maybe some of this will get you thinking in ways that you hadn't before, and maybe you'll find the key to yourself there. I know that's happened to me on these boards, so there's a payment on my debt.

Good luck.

 

Re: You can't be the Black Hole for validation....

Posted by shortelise on February 14, 2004, at 13:41:38

In reply to You can't be the Black Hole for validation...., posted by Racer on February 14, 2004, at 9:07:20

Racer, I've read several of your posts and thought you were a man. I hope that doesn't offend - I just thought you might find it interesting.

I can't quite get the distinction between pride in one's accomplishments, and vanity. I seem to be in constant need of having my accomplishments witnessed and praised. And thanks for what you wrote about your mother - it is the case with mine as well and I never thought of it. I used to be one who told kids "the truth". What a ridiculous thing to do, and how hurtful.


I am trying to learn to accept that I am not perfect.

And you: if nothing else, do you ever write well!

ShortE

 

Re: Validation » Dinah

Posted by DaisyM on February 14, 2004, at 16:51:48

In reply to Re: Validation » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2004, at 8:34:26

I'm sorry you do have to struggle, but unlike you, I'm not sure I would. I don't trust myself in this arena because I'm still not sure of all the "rules." So if I didn't/don't get the response I want, I assume that it either wasn't an appropriate question or I shouldn't want that. It isn't that I don't ask the same questions over and over again, but I don't know if I could do that if the response I get wasn't one of reassurance.

I don't feel that great today so i don't know if this is making any sense at all. I guess I'm impressed that you keep at it until he understands what you need.

That said, I will now agree that I am glad that my Therapist understands the need to feed my intellect so that I can tolerate my feelings. He is *at least* :) as smart as I am (OH THE EGO COMES OUT!!) but I can't imagine working with someone who doesn't recognize that about me. He told me once that I miss nothing, and he is right.

Right now I just need him to be there for me. And he is doing a great job of that. I feel very lucky.

 

Re: You can't be the Black Hole for validation.... » shortelise

Posted by pegasus on February 14, 2004, at 16:52:56

In reply to Re: You can't be the Black Hole for validation...., posted by shortelise on February 14, 2004, at 13:41:38

> can't quite get the distinction between pride in one's accomplishments, and vanity. I seem to be in constant need of having my accomplishments witnessed and praised.

Yes, exactly. I am exactly that way also. There have been times in therapy when I wanted to talk about "bad" things I've done, and the only way I could do it was if I brought in good things to show my T as well. I brought in a good comment from a prof on a paper I'd written, and a card a friend had given me saying that she appreciated me, and stuff like that. And it was so humiliating and transparent. It felt vain and needy. I just couldn't stand to only show the bad stuff. I wanted my T to approve of me.

- p

 

Ditto » pegasus

Posted by Racer on February 15, 2004, at 16:41:06

In reply to Re: You can't be the Black Hole for validation.... » shortelise, posted by pegasus on February 14, 2004, at 16:52:56

I go through it with the pdoc and the therapist, both. With the pdoc, he's so dang slurpy I almost slide out of my chair, tripping over my tongue like a bedazzled teenager with her first crush. Then I do things like Show Off and Generally Make An @$$ Of Myself. Last time, I made him look at an essay I wrote about a science fiction book that's on the web at an obscure site. {{groan}} I can't believe I did that.

Some of that is mistrust, on my part. Fear that he'll label me "hypochondriac" or "atypical Munchausen" or something. I know a lot about medicine and politics because of weird coincidences in my past life, so I get a little pedantic sometimes, and ask some questions that have produced negative reactions in other doctors. So, my very first words to him at our first appointment were, "I'm not your average patient, I had a 4.0 GPA for math and science in college, and I need to be informed and involved in every step of this process." (By the way, a number of men have told me that I'm a little frightening sometimes.) Now, which way would you take that? Insecurity raising its head, screaming 'you'd better take me seriously!'? Reasonable concern, considering some of my past experiences with doctors and meds? Arrogance? (Can't be the last, since I can't spell it, right?)

With the T, I have to use examples of "Above Average" to illustrate my basic worthlessness. Like how I got that 4.0 in math and science. "Gee, I really wasn't a very good student, because, see, to get those grades, I had to sign up for a tutor, set up study groups, transcribe my notes after every class, and read a lot of background materials. That's proof that I just didn't get it right." Even I can see how ridiculous that is. Maybe it was all a sham, but who cares? I did do all those things, I did get my A's, and it doesn't have to be easy to be done right. (Obviously, I haven't quite gotten past that one. Maybe it's my mother's voice, ringing from years past: "If you'd really been that smart, you would have taught yourself to read before you started school.")

We carry a lot of baggage around, and this need for approval is probably something that we don't eliminate, but refine into a healthier desire for respect. That's my thought for the day. So exhausting I'll have to go lie down, now...

 

Re: Ditto » Racer

Posted by pegasus on February 15, 2004, at 18:01:09

In reply to Ditto » pegasus, posted by Racer on February 15, 2004, at 16:41:06

Did your mother really say that!?!? Wow, I'm sorry. That's . . . um . . . kind of a high standard for judging whether you were smart.

I'm sure that you are very smart, even if you *did* work hard to get the good grades. Working hard to get good grades is not incompatible with being smart. In fact, it's smart to work hard at something that is important to you.

I had a lot of similar stuff from my parents growing up. I remember them comparing me to my sister (who never got anything but an A+ in any class in her whole life). They would say, "You could have gotten an A if you'd really tried." But I knew that I was trying really hard already, so that meant I was dumb. But . . . the truth is that I *am* pretty smart. It's just too bad that I had to spend so much of my life trying to prove it to myself and live up to that mom-talk (PhD in the wrong field and everything). I wish I could have known it a long time ago, and trusted myself more.

And same for you! You are so smart in the things that you say here. We don't have to know about your 4.0 in college or anything else to see that. I'm glad you are here. I appreciate your comments about refining the need for approval to a desire for respect. That sounds so much healthier!

- p

 

Thank you for the validation » pegasus

Posted by Racer on February 15, 2004, at 20:44:36

In reply to Re: Ditto » Racer, posted by pegasus on February 15, 2004, at 18:01:09

Thank you. It really helps to be able to express some of those things to people who won't back away in disgust or terror. A girlfriend of mine just admitted to me on the telephone that she wasn't leaving her house at all, and then told me how good it felt to her to tell someone who would try to understand. It is a good feeling.

My mother. Yep, she's also the one who, when I sewed two blouses in one day to wear on a trip abroad, held one up and told me, "When you get back, I'll show you your mistakes and how to do it right." (My ex-bf, who always picked out my clothes when we traveled together, liked the blouses. They couldn't have been too bad.) Oh, and let's not forget some of her other gems: "You just wanted to live with your father, you thought that would have been better" (<<scariest thought of my young life: having to live with my father. Maybe some projection going on?)

Then again, the day that Mother was stomping around her kitchen complaining about everything that could ever go wrong in her life while eating a grapefruit: "... and I just swallowed a grapefruit seed and it'll sprout in my stomach -- will it sprout in my stomach?" When I said, "Only if you eat dirt, Mom," she almost fell down laughing. She's also the one who gave me the sex ed talk starting with, "Don't believe that sex ed class in school when they tell you you can't get VD from a toilet seat or a doorknob. You *can* get VD from a doorknob. You just have to be pretty acrobatic, it can't be comfortable, and all things considered it's probably best to get it from a man..."

There's good and bad in all of us. At peak form, my mother can reduce me to tears in a fraction of a second. Whether they're tears of anguish or laughter really does depend on her mood and her topic.

Oh, and there's the other side of it, too. You know that old saw, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you?" With the Mother-Daughter Dance, it's hard to separate the stimulus from the response. Yes, my mother can say things that cut me to the quick, but that doesn't mean that I'm not already hyper-sensitised to her behavior or words. I think it's a little like an allergy: You have to be exposed to the allergen before you'll react to it.

(No, I *will not* tell my mother that our relationship is like an allergy. No. Absolutely not. But it is a good analogy, ain't it?)

 

Re: Thank you for the validation » Racer

Posted by pegasus on February 16, 2004, at 1:27:43

In reply to Thank you for the validation » pegasus, posted by Racer on February 15, 2004, at 20:44:36

Sounds like a complicated relationship. Aren't they all (sigh). Your mom sounds like a hoot when she wants to be. I'm glad that you described some of her good moments as well. And, it does sound like she was rather hard on you during her bad moments. And, you know, don't you, that those were her moments, not yours? It's just so hard to hear that stuff from our moms.

My mom has no idea how she has affected me. In her mind, she never had favorites, never thought of any of us as smarter or most stupid than the others, never put pressure on us or was anything other than completely supportive. And when I try to see it through her eyes, I can. But when I see it through my eyes . . . well, she was a great mom, and I always felt loved, but I know I didn't measure up to her standard. So, all my life I feel second rate.

Oh, sorry for making this about my junk. I'm glad the validation helped!

- p


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